Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

The saying we have on another group is if there aren't pictures it didn't 
happen.  I hand held the camera so depth of field is out a little on the 10-32 
screw head and the macro lens is bad for depth of field as it is.  

Short G-Code 200 RPM tapping into really soft aluminium trimmed off an old box 
or something.  Not sure if this classifies as a spiral tip tap but even a 
forming tap would have pushing this soft metal around.

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/Tapping10-32.jpg

John Dammeyer




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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Bruce Layne]

On 7/9/21 2:37 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

Did you get any of the options for that SV01?


I bought the SV01 from Amazon for $224 including two day shipping. It's 
bare bones.  I would have liked the silent stepper motherboard upgrade 
but it wasn't offered at Amazon.  If I need to replace the motherboard, 
I'll upgrade at that time.  It's not very noisy without the upgrade.  
It's next to me on my desk.  It's not nearly as noisy as my laser 
printer.  It doesn't bother me and nobody can hear it when I'm talking 
to people on the phone.  Probably half of the noise is from the fans and 
not the stepper motors.  Some people have used larger and slower turning 
fans to reduce the fan noise, although the stepper motor music is 
probably the more objectionable noise from a qualitative perspective.


The generic textured glass bed works very well.  I've printed a lot of 
flexible TPU in 96A to 98A durometer.  Most of it was without any bed 
heating but I now heat the bed to 60C and print the first layer with a 
nozzle temperature of 230C, then turn off bed heating to save power and 
lower the nozzle to 210C to reduce stringing after the first layer.  No 
glue stick, which makes turnover between parts very fast and easy.  Just 
TPU on glass.  Best (quality + speed) is at 50 mm/s print speed and 3 mm 
of retraction.  I have the slicer keep the print head within the infill 
of the print to avoid traversing open areas whenever possible and there 
is essentially no stringing with 98A TPU.


There are more options when buying the SV01 directly from Sovol's 
website, but there's probably a bit more of a premium price for the 
factory upgrades than there should be.  It's about the same price as 
buying the upgrades after buying the printer, but with them doing the 
labor.  I'm very happy with the inexpensive Keep It Simple bare bones 
version from Amazon.  I expected to need to upgrade the extruder, but 
I've been very pleased with the stock extruder. There's no programmed 
filament loading.  To unload and load filament, use the scroll wheel 
user interface to preheat the nozzle (I always use the ABS profile to 
get it good and hot), pull the filament tension lever to disengage the 
drive roller, press the old filament down to manually extrude some 
filament and rapidly withdraw the filament to clear the nozzle, then 
push in the new filament until 100 mm or so has been extruded from the 
nozzle.  So far, the extruder has been 100% maintenance free, and I've 
done a lot of printing with TPU, which is a worst case for jams.


The PLA test cube sample print that was on the microSD card had the 
highest print quality I've seen from a hobby grade 3D printer.  The 
print quality was almost as good as a friend's expensive Statasys 
commercial 3D printer.


The tiny microSD card in the weird location is my biggest gripe. Some 
fiddly left handed dexterity is needed to insert the microSD card.  Each 
time, I spend a minute fiddling with it.  One time, I missed the slot on 
the motherboard and the microSD card fell into the electronics enclosure 
and I was forced to remove the bottom panel to remove the microSD card.  
This would only be a minor aggravation for a print farm that prints the 
same parts, but I use this for prototyping and one-off parts that I 
design, so I'll probably get a Raspberry Pi and use OctoPrint rather 
than fiddling with the PIA microSD card.  On the plus side, the power 
switch is conveniently located on the right side of the printer instead 
of being next to the power cord on the back of the printer, so it's easy 
to turn off the power before removing the microSD card, and turn on the 
power after inserting the microSD card.


Anyone not printing flexible filaments may be better served with a 
Bowden style extruder for faster print speeds.  Properly tuned, a modern 
Bowden design can print TPU, particularly the higher durometer 
versions.  For most applications, the flexibility of the part is much 
more a factor of the wall thickness and fill percentage.  I've been 
printing a very squishy padded part with relatively stiff 98A TPU using 
one layer (.4 mm) wall thickness and 20% fill.  10% felt too squishy, 
like it was an air filled pocket. 20% infill feels like a moderate 
density closed cell foam.


With a 240mm X 280mm X 300mm build volume, I need to print something 
goofy like a waste paper basket or lampshade, although the real benefit 
for me will be volume printing a large array of parts, or maybe larger 
mechanical one-off parts such as fixtures, brackets, vacuforming plugs, 
composite fiberglass molds, etc.


My first 3D printer was an ORDbot Hadron that I built from parts. I've 
always poo-pooed the 3D printers using Delrin rollers in slotted 
aluminum for the motion control components as well as the structural 
frame, but the modern versions work very well.  It's not difficult to 
keep the slots and rollers clean in an office environment, and the 
motion is very smooth.  I initially 

Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 18:43, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Although if I understand the G31.1 correctly the Z axis tracks the encoder 
> > reported speed right?
> 
> No, that would be silly. It tracks the actual spindle position.
> 
> G74 / G84 work  on open-loop velocity, but assume a tension/compression head.
> 
> > So the spindle speed before the tapping starts and for reversing is really 
> > more of a guide than an actual written in stone value?
> >
> > In other words, is the PID even needed?
> 
> No, you can, in fact, turn the spindle off and rotate it by hand and
> LinuxCNC will still track.
> 
Haven't tried that as the spindle servo enable is tied to the general system 
enable so it's locked when not turning.  Handy since I can loosen and tighten 
the drawbar without a second wrench.

At some point I want to add a few switches and a control so I can manually 
switch on the spindle and set the speed without touching the mouse.  I can do 
that from my pendant but it's not as convenient was what I'd really like to do. 
 Plus still want to get into Modbus using the modio I have lying around here.

At the moment I can consider the PWM to 0V-10V with 60 slot encoder project 
complete.   The PID works well enough to bring the spindle to the target speed 
and hold it there.  

I believe that if you are running PWM to voltage with the encoder back to LCNC 
with PID that the +/- output is perfectly reasonable since the closed loop 
control is only being done my LCNC and a minus voltage to the windings would 
cause hard braking to slow down the spindle (or whatever).  

But running a high end servo with internal PID that has the capability of 
decelerating and spinning in the other direction rather than just braking to 
slow down with a minus PID output from the LCNC PID is dangerous.  I'd suggest 
rather than having to add a limit block, that the PID module have the same sort 
of min/max parameters added.  Doing it outside the PID seems slower.

Thanks for everyone's help.  Time to rewire for step/dir and change the BIT 
file in the 7i92H.

John






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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Bari]

If you have a standard off the shelf FFF/FDM or SLA/DLP/mSLA printer 
then you are pretty much stuck with the limited slicer options. Most 
phone home or for  SLA/DLP/mSLA only output a proprietary format.


I have a printer controller running nanDLP that we have isolated on the 
network. The software keeps track of everything you do with it and tries 
to phone home.


I use Slic3r and bunch of scripts to run my printers with LCNC. That is 
why I'm working on my own CAM for machining as well as multi-tech hybrid 
printers. The closed stuff (CAM and Slicers) doesn't even cut it for 
anything that is not considered standard.


On 7/9/21 1:13 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
PrusaSlicer is now slicing files for optical MSLA resin printers.  It 
may only be the Prusa resin printer now.  I'm still using Chitubox to 
slice my MSLA files, but hopefully soon I can use PrusaSlicer for all 
of my 3D printers.  Chitubox is free, but I don't think it's open 
source. It phones home, and there's no telling what it's reporting.  I 
should trap some packets and try to see for myself. :-)



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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Ralph Stirling]

Did you get any of the options for that SV01?  I really appreciate your reviews.

-- Ralph

On Jul 9, 2021 11:14 AM, Bruce Layne  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On 7/9/21 9:05 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I also priced the pro version of cura, but $750 for a years seat at that
> table is a bit steep.
>
> I am not a happy camper this morning.

SLICERS:

A month ago, I decided that the Simplify3D slicing software that I
bought with lifetime free upgrades, that seemed to become free minor
upgrades with additional fees for the upcoming major release upgrade,
which now looks more like abandonware, has fallen behind the curve and
it's time to replace it with an open source slicer. Simplify3D was the
only commercial software on my computer.  I evaluated several slicers
and chose PrusaSlicer.  Here was my ordered preferences (your mileage
may vary):

PrusaSlicer
IdeaMaker
Cura
Simplify3D

Cura and Simplify3D were approximately a tie.  I didn't like Cura's
phone-home-to-Ultimaker operation, but Simplify3D phones home too. They
both have user interfaces that don't always work the way I'd like and
are counter intuitive or even a bit buggy as Gene described in Cura's
add-a-new-printer feature.  Cura eased out Simplify3D because it's open
source.

IdeaMaker looks and works a lot like PrusaSlicer.

PrusaSlicer manages to have a lot of features but still be fairly easy
to use.  Everything is arranged logically, so even though there are long
pages of options, I can scan and find what I want.  I found it easier to
enableExpert mode.  Even though there were more options to confuse me,
at least I wasn't looking for a hidden option.  The popup help for each
item helps.  Simplify3D has a fairly logical layout too, but some things
aren't where I'd expect them to be, or aren't implemented as I'd
expect.  As an added bonus, PrusaSlicer is now slicing files for optical
MSLA resin printers.  It may only be the Prusa resin printer now.  I'm
still using Chitubox to slice my MSLA files, but hopefully soon I can
use PrusaSlicer for all of my 3D printers.  Chitubox is free, but I
don't think it's open source. It phones home, and there's no telling
what it's reporting.  I should trap some packets and try to see for
myself.   :-)



3D PRINTERS:

I also recently stopped trying to support my QIDI Tech FDM printers.  I
paid $3000 for five of them three years ago, plus spending a lot of time
and money upgrading them.  I bought them because they had dual direct
drive extruders, dual linear rods for all three axes of motion, were
enclosed so they could better print large ABS objects without
differential cooling cracks, etc.  They were abandoned by the
manufacturer, and the proprietary parts became impossible to obtain.  I
had bought common repair parts, but other items were breaking.  I was
robbing one printer to keep another going.  QIDI went so far as to use
open source stepper driver PCBs but solder the header pins on the back
side to reverse the pinout to make them proprietary so I was forced to
buy the repair parts from them if I didn't want to unsolder the pins and
solder them on backwards.  That's a customer hostile attitude.
Manufacturers should make reliable products that are cheap and easy to
maintain but QIDI deliberately made that 3D printer difficult and
expensive to maintain.

I bought a very inexpensive Sovol SV01.  It has a much larger glass
print bed (textured one side and smooth on the other).  It only has a
single extruder, but unlike the QIDI extruders, this Titan clone is jam
proof and it feeds flexible filament like a dream.  The print quality is
much better than the QIDI, which was best in class three years ago.  The
open architecture makes maintenance and repairs easy and the generic
Ender compatible parts are cheap and readily available.  3D printers
have come a long way in the last three years.  Now is a great time to
get on board with one of the inexpensive and very capable new 3D
printers.  I recommend keeping it simple and inexpensive.

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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 09 July 2021 04:18:05 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 04:42, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > I think this is a bug, but where do I report it?
>
> https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues

Thanks Andy, I did find some helpfull stuffs there.  but not a good 
answer, only work-a-rounds. Now I've lost anything resembling bed 
adhesion. So I'm killing prints before the 2nd layer even starts, pulled 
loose and dragging the whole thing around. Frustrating.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Bruce Layne]

On 7/9/21 9:05 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I also priced the pro version of cura, but $750 for a years seat at that
table is a bit steep.

I am not a happy camper this morning.


SLICERS:

A month ago, I decided that the Simplify3D slicing software that I 
bought with lifetime free upgrades, that seemed to become free minor 
upgrades with additional fees for the upcoming major release upgrade, 
which now looks more like abandonware, has fallen behind the curve and 
it's time to replace it with an open source slicer. Simplify3D was the 
only commercial software on my computer.  I evaluated several slicers 
and chose PrusaSlicer.  Here was my ordered preferences (your mileage 
may vary):


PrusaSlicer
IdeaMaker
Cura
Simplify3D

Cura and Simplify3D were approximately a tie.  I didn't like Cura's 
phone-home-to-Ultimaker operation, but Simplify3D phones home too. They 
both have user interfaces that don't always work the way I'd like and 
are counter intuitive or even a bit buggy as Gene described in Cura's 
add-a-new-printer feature.  Cura eased out Simplify3D because it's open 
source.


IdeaMaker looks and works a lot like PrusaSlicer.

PrusaSlicer manages to have a lot of features but still be fairly easy 
to use.  Everything is arranged logically, so even though there are long 
pages of options, I can scan and find what I want.  I found it easier to 
enableExpert mode.  Even though there were more options to confuse me, 
at least I wasn't looking for a hidden option.  The popup help for each 
item helps.  Simplify3D has a fairly logical layout too, but some things 
aren't where I'd expect them to be, or aren't implemented as I'd 
expect.  As an added bonus, PrusaSlicer is now slicing files for optical 
MSLA resin printers.  It may only be the Prusa resin printer now.  I'm 
still using Chitubox to slice my MSLA files, but hopefully soon I can 
use PrusaSlicer for all of my 3D printers.  Chitubox is free, but I 
don't think it's open source. It phones home, and there's no telling 
what it's reporting.  I should trap some packets and try to see for 
myself.   :-)




3D PRINTERS:

I also recently stopped trying to support my QIDI Tech FDM printers.  I 
paid $3000 for five of them three years ago, plus spending a lot of time 
and money upgrading them.  I bought them because they had dual direct 
drive extruders, dual linear rods for all three axes of motion, were 
enclosed so they could better print large ABS objects without 
differential cooling cracks, etc.  They were abandoned by the 
manufacturer, and the proprietary parts became impossible to obtain.  I 
had bought common repair parts, but other items were breaking.  I was 
robbing one printer to keep another going.  QIDI went so far as to use 
open source stepper driver PCBs but solder the header pins on the back 
side to reverse the pinout to make them proprietary so I was forced to 
buy the repair parts from them if I didn't want to unsolder the pins and 
solder them on backwards.  That's a customer hostile attitude.  
Manufacturers should make reliable products that are cheap and easy to 
maintain but QIDI deliberately made that 3D printer difficult and 
expensive to maintain.


I bought a very inexpensive Sovol SV01.  It has a much larger glass 
print bed (textured one side and smooth on the other).  It only has a 
single extruder, but unlike the QIDI extruders, this Titan clone is jam 
proof and it feeds flexible filament like a dream.  The print quality is 
much better than the QIDI, which was best in class three years ago.  The 
open architecture makes maintenance and repairs easy and the generic 
Ender compatible parts are cheap and readily available.  3D printers 
have come a long way in the last three years.  Now is a great time to 
get on board with one of the inexpensive and very capable new 3D 
printers.  I recommend keeping it simple and inexpensive.


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 18:43, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Although if I understand the G31.1 correctly the Z axis tracks the encoder 
> reported speed right?

No, that would be silly. It tracks the actual spindle position.

G74 / G84 work  on open-loop velocity, but assume a tension/compression head.

> So the spindle speed before the tapping starts and for reversing is really 
> more of a guide than an actual written in stone value?
>
> In other words, is the PID even needed?

No, you can, in fact, turn the spindle off and rotate it by hand and
LinuxCNC will still track.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Andy,

The system currently uses PWM to a cheap (not the most linear) 0V-10V 
converter.Which means the PWM values for requested RPM at 100 should 
different than the requested PWM for RPM at 1500.  All because originally the 
BIT file I was using for the 7i92H did not have an extra step/dir on the first 
parallel port and I still required the system to run off a single port for 
either LCNC or MACH3.  With MACH3 it's easy.  Change a check box for step/dir 
or PWM and it uses the same port pins.  Hence the system is still wired for PWM.

Also the spindle pulley ratio is about 1.040/1.000 if the requested verses 
target speeds are to be believed.

Before I added the quadrature feedback I was using a limit block I called 
spindle-ramped.  That's because the Bergerda AC servo drive is extremely well 
tuned and the motor does what it's asked to do almost instantly.  So a change 
from say 700 to 200 RPM felt jerky.  Hence adding the ramp to move up and down 
in speed more slowly.  I removed that ramp block once the encoder was there.

I've put the ramp block back in but set .maxv back up to the largest value.  
Set .max to largest value and set .min to 0.  Now when told to go to 0 RPS it 
goes to 0 and not in the reverse direction which the spindle would rapidly do 
if given a negative value that changed the direction output.  A PID outside 
another PID is never really a good idea.  

In either case, I've set FF0 down to 0.68 and bumped up the P and I which makes 
the system more responsive and reached the target velocity faster which means 
the up to speed indication is there sooner and tapping begins sooner.  It was 
the retraction of the tap that had me worried as the change in direction and 
lagging spindle speed made it look like it would break taps.

Although if I understand the G31.1 correctly the Z axis tracks the encoder 
reported speed right?  So the spindle speed before the tapping starts and for 
reversing is really more of a guide than an actual written in stone value?

In other words, is the PID even needed?

John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-09-21 12:44 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 01:20, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > If I set it to 0.05 then the spindle does stop but now the PID isn't very 
> > responsive.  I have to add large amounts of P and I to get it to
> stabilize quickly and at 100RPM it then surges
> 
> I would expect a spindle PID to mainly rely on FF0 and I.
> (Set the FF0 to give the right speed at a mid-range point without any
> P, I or D)
> 
> You could _try_ running the PID output through a limit block, so that
> a negative value can't get through, but the PID will still output a
> negative value, and might get "confused" if that has no effect.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 08 July 2021 23:39:30 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 08 July 2021 21:27:17 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > cura -> preferences -> profiles -> import
> > Then select your file.
>
> It won't let me import it because it does, if a profile exists, it
> clashes with that profiles "base" file.
>
> exit cura, and clean out all previous cfg files, leaving nothing for
> cura to load, and the add printers screen comes up on launch, blocking
> access to any menu, and the add screen has no import button.
>
> > I don't know if simply moving the file works.
> >
> > If you need to know here it is kept you can always search for the
> > filename after you import it. but I think it is inside something
> > like $HOME/cura/appdata/...
>
> I put a copy of the file in the ~/me/.local/share/cura/4.10.0
> directory, but the only way to get to the import button is to have
> previously added a printer, but then it apparently try's to apply it
> to the existing printer, which of course fails, so I'm painted into a
> corner. Without a working printer to make fixes with. The only option
> offered when this clash occurs, is a reset, which it says will remove
> all printers.
>
> I think this is a bug, but where do I report it?, so we get a 4.10.1
> AppImage that actually works quickly.
>
> Thanks Chris.
>
> > On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 6:06 PM Gene Heskett 
>
> wrote:
> > > Greetings all;
> > >
> > > I have the u-sd card that came with a new BIQU BX printer, one of
> > > the high priced things that has ALL the bells and whistles.
> > >
> > > Unforch, cura only know about the B1, which has a different
> > > printhead, and the extrusion rate is several times too high, and
> > > the printer won't let me change it, no clue why.
> > >
> > > But the u-sd card has a BIQU BX file on it, but I have NDI where
> > > to put it in /home/me/.local/ to put it where looks when you add a
> > > printer, and by the proper name since it doesn't match anything
> > > there now.
> > >
> > > It looks like this now:
> > >
> > > ls -l "/media/sde1/Setting flies"
> > > total 4448
> > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4490020 Dec 14  2020 3DBenchy-cr.gcode
> > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root3116 Dec 14  2020 BIQU-BX configuration
> > > file.curaprofile
> > >
> > > Anybody know where I should copy it to, and what I should name it
> > > when I do copy it there?
> > >
> > > Thanks all.
I finally got it to work! But I had to rename the file to get rid of the 
winblows spaces in it name, then had to paste the pwd output, as the 
first part of the filename, and append the renamed filename to that.

But in order to get the import menu at all, I first had to add a 
Custom-FFF.printer, which I can probably assume is now deletable since 
there are now two printers defined. It will not let you delete the last 
printer, What a royal screwup this is.

BUT, while I have now imported that file 3 times, it has not appeared in 
the selection of profiles under the "manage printers" menu so it can be 
selected as the default.

I did finally find a menu that allows the extruder scale to be changed, 
and found the default of 932 actually feeds about a meter of filament 
for a 100mm command. And that while the rest of the scales are still 
fixed, its printing anything you send it scaled up about 150%. And at 
virtually zero bed adhesion. And it tried to feed it a second time much 
faster than the first, causing the gears to cut it in two, and now its 
frozen up. Locked the nozzle into the hot block even at 260C. So this 
morning I have to learn how to unfreeze an H2 printhead.

All because I wanted to load the printers own default sd card contents 
into cura:
$> ls "/media/sde1/Setting flies"/ showing this filename, miss spellings 
are from the card, so that ls command gives this:
3DBenchy-cr.gcode  BIQU-BX configuration file.curaprofile

That 3dbenchy.gcode file printed directly from that file from the 
printers own menu, printed the most perfect benchy I have ever seen.

I also priced the pro version of cura, but $750 for a years seat at that 
table is a bit steep.

I am not a happy camper this morning.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 04:42, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I think this is a bug, but where do I report it?

https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/issues


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 01:20, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> If I set it to 0.05 then the spindle does stop but now the PID isn't very 
> responsive.  I have to add large amounts of P and I to get it to stabilize 
> quickly and at 100RPM it then surges

I would expect a spindle PID to mainly rely on FF0 and I.
(Set the FF0 to give the right speed at a mid-range point without any
P, I or D)

You could _try_ running the PID output through a limit block, so that
a negative value can't get through, but the PID will still output a
negative value, and might get "confused" if that has no effect.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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