Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
On 5/1/24 14:12, John Dammeyer wrote: From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 at 17:31, John Dammeyer wrote: Except it would still require an add on card still called a cape perhaps? I think that the attraction of the Beagleboard was that the PRU could be used for step generation and encoder counting. There were some hats that included stepper drive, but you would need those anyway. It's likely too soon to know if the " Arm Cortex-R5 subsystem for low-latency I/O and control " has the ability to be the step/dir engine for 4 axis and a spindle (step/dir or PWM). But still for anything to be simple using LinuxCNC the orginal cape for the Beagle that provided a DB-25 to connect to a BoB is not a good solution. Similarly a cape with built in drivers like the Replicape where a driver fails requiring replacement of the cape is also a non-starter. I still think this is the best idea except instead of a network cable to a PC with custom software the connection should be USB+HDMI to a 1080P monitor. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/images/centroid_acorn_cnc_controller.pdf There should be only one user interface modeled after the MACH3 with menu's and forms to fill out to set things up. The need to drop into custom code (BASIC in MACH3) should only be for specialized customization. The target needs to be the small mills that go for under $1500. John The elephant in the room in that scenario is the mach3 and the shitty electronics supplied with said $1500 gantry mill. I fought with it, trying to make linuxcnc run it, and wound up throwing the whole box in the trash trailer, the vfd was simply not controllable, and assembling or building all the electronics myself. Its now a full blown 4 axis machine. Including a B axis that can do 400 rpm in perfect sync with the Y motion. That turned out to be so handy I made another for an A axis on my go704. Keeps be out of the bars in my dotage. Take care & stay well John. Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
On 5/1/24 13:11, Chris Albertson wrote: The magoroty of people who do not want to make CNC tools their hoby and just want to cut metal, wood or plastic, they would be best sewrved by one of the “out of the box” solutions, like Acorn. No one, except Torch sells an LCNC solution that come rewady to run with hardware and pre-istalled software. Most users will want that. Then if you are selling a turn-key setup, LCNC requires more expensive hardware. 90% of the market is going to be runnng a very simple 3-axis CNC router. Yoiu can buy PCBs that have a poerfull microcontroller and some stepper moter drivers for $40 retail or have one made in china for 1/3rd that price. You then but $50 worth of electronics in a $10 enclosure and sell it for $300. The end user will never in a million years complain that he can not edit the config file to run industrial servos over Ethercat. On the other hand many people do seem to make CNC a hobby even if they really don’t need to make a ‘billion CNC’d parts. For them LCNC is prefect and a machine that “just works” would be usless because they’d have nothing to do. What I am having good luck with running all the fancy stuff for 3d printers on them is the currently $65 bananapi-m5. All 4 usb ports are usb3 so speeds are not a problem. I am just now bringing up an old Ender 5 Plus that died a couple years ago, able to run at 30mm/second max because it comes with a puny Y motor, but now has 2 more bigger higher voltage power supply's, the X motors are now stepper/servo's, I belted the z motors together and unplugged one so bed tilt is locked, lots of heavy flying weight is now CF tubing, much lighter to throw around, and its loafing at 200mm/sec speeds. What it formerly took 3 days to make is now done in 17 hours. That bpi-m5 is talking to the $52 control card that runs the printer with a single usb-C cable. I have not tried linuxcnc on one of them but it runs fine on an rpi4b with 2 gigs of ram, Gene, if that Pi4 is running Klipper, of course it is not loaded up. Kipper pushes 100% of the real-time work onto the MCU. The Pi only has to read the g-code file and do the motion planning and run the web server based GUI. Screen rendering and mouse tracking and all the low-level GUI stuff is done on the user’s web browser.LCNC is just the opposite, so you can’t compare. Klipper does not care at all which OS you run. It runs very well in a virtual machine or even on a Pi-zero. I’m using a Pi3, 1GB and see only 8% CPU usage In fact you can run multiple copies of Klipper on one computer and drive multiple printers at the same time. running my 11x54 Sheldon lathe. Install the build-essential & the latest python 3, hook it to a breakout board fed by a usb-3 cable, and build lcnc from master's src. It ought to just work. Might have to build a rt kernel, but my 3d printers don't seem to mind the current jammy offering. But let’s say you were a sign maker and wanted to cut out plastic letters with a CO2 laser. You bill your customers at $125 per machine-hour. How many hours do you want to spend learning to build real-time kernels, it costs you $125 for every one of those non-billable hours. And on top of that maybe marketing and sales are not getting done while you work on a DIY CNC project. Same with plumbing, It is not technically hard to repair pipes, snake drains, or replace a water heater.But what if you own a restaurant? The owner is more than happy to pay the $250/hr rate to have two plumbers and a well-stocked truck show up and fix the problem because he has to close the business until the problem is fixed. So in an industrial setting DIY could very easily be much more expensive than buying a turn-key system or even hiring the work done for you. But on the other hand, many of us are not in a situation where “toime is money” and LCNC is a good fit. But it is not a good fit at all for everyone. Much of that is common sense Chris. But I'm not your average machinist, I am a CET with an 8th grade education that spent the last 18 years of his working life keeping the local CBS affiliate on the air. By myself about 75% of that time. And I often do something that stretches the imagination just to see if I can do it. I am not worried about the time or $, its something to keep me out of the bars. For instance, the acid test for this rebuilt Ender 5 Plus I've spent the last year rebuilding and the last 4 days calibrating is now underway, its making a pair of half nuts for a woodworking vise, in buttress threads to fit a 20" long, 2" in diameter hard maple screw carved with g-code I wrote every character of. And its doing it at 230mm/sec speeds, using stepper/servo motors, that's 7.6 times faster than what that E5+ could do OOTB. Of course it weighs 30 lbs more than OEM now and I have to handle it with a hoist. I'm still pushing the speed up but very incrementally. And I have an even bigger
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
> On May 1, 2024, at 8:55 AM, andy pugh wrote: > > > I think that the attraction of the Beagleboard was that the PRU could be > used for step generation and encoder counting. This gets into the difference between a Linux PC and a microcontroller.The microcontroller has lots and lots of peripheral hardware, things like timers and PM generators, and hardware quadrature decoding and D/A converts and whatnot. Whereas the typical PC only has “ports” that move data. The Beagleboard is kind of in the middle. It is actually poor at doing either job but the fact that it had real-time outpit pins made it really attractive. There are some really exelent hardware platforms that could be used for LCNC but who wants to get them to work when there are off-the-shelf solutions. Saving $300 on the hardware is not attractive if you have to write the software to make it work. Look at this board. It sells for $90 and could run LCNC. It has a Raspberry Pi equivalent that comes with Debian Linux installed, has 2 GB RAM and fast 32GB storage, and has 4 stepper moter drivers that are good for about 2 amps. Really, this is a Pi4, with breakout and drivers for $90 and has a warranty and some minimal level of customer support.The problem is that the LCNC ecosystem is not yet large enough to attract enough software developers to write firmware for every “every chip in the world”. So we are kind of stuck with what’s available now. ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 at 17:31, John Dammeyer > wrote: > > Except it would still require an add on card still called a cape perhaps? > > > I think that the attraction of the Beagleboard was that the PRU could be > used for step generation and encoder counting. There were some hats that > included stepper drive, but you would need those anyway. > It's likely too soon to know if the " Arm Cortex-R5 subsystem for low-latency I/O and control " has the ability to be the step/dir engine for 4 axis and a spindle (step/dir or PWM). But still for anything to be simple using LinuxCNC the orginal cape for the Beagle that provided a DB-25 to connect to a BoB is not a good solution. Similarly a cape with built in drivers like the Replicape where a driver fails requiring replacement of the cape is also a non-starter. I still think this is the best idea except instead of a network cable to a PC with custom software the connection should be USB+HDMI to a 1080P monitor. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/images/centroid_acorn_cnc_controller.pdf There should be only one user interface modeled after the MACH3 with menu's and forms to fill out to set things up. The need to drop into custom code (BASIC in MACH3) should only be for specialized customization. The target needs to be the small mills that go for under $1500. John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
The magoroty of people who do not want to make CNC tools their hoby and just want to cut metal, wood or plastic, they would be best sewrved by one of the “out of the box” solutions, like Acorn. No one, except Torch sells an LCNC solution that come rewady to run with hardware and pre-istalled software. Most users will want that. Then if you are selling a turn-key setup, LCNC requires more expensive hardware. 90% of the market is going to be runnng a very simple 3-axis CNC router. Yoiu can buy PCBs that have a poerfull microcontroller and some stepper moter drivers for $40 retail or have one made in china for 1/3rd that price. You then but $50 worth of electronics in a $10 enclosure and sell it for $300. The end user will never in a million years complain that he can not edit the config file to run industrial servos over Ethercat. On the other hand many people do seem to make CNC a hobby even if they really don’t need to make a ‘billion CNC’d parts. For them LCNC is prefect and a machine that “just works” would be usless because they’d have nothing to do. > > What I am having good luck with running all the fancy stuff for 3d printers > on them is the currently $65 bananapi-m5. All 4 usb ports are usb3 so speeds > are not a problem. I am just now bringing up an old Ender 5 Plus that died a > couple years ago, able to run at 30mm/second max because it comes with a puny > Y motor, but now has 2 more bigger higher voltage power supply's, the X > motors are now stepper/servo's, I belted the z motors together and unplugged > one so bed tilt is locked, lots of heavy flying weight is now CF tubing, much > lighter to throw around, and its loafing at 200mm/sec speeds. What it > formerly took 3 days to make is now done in 17 hours. That bpi-m5 is talking > to the $52 control card that runs the printer with a single usb-C cable. > > I have not tried linuxcnc on one of them but it runs fine on an rpi4b with 2 > gigs of ram, Gene, if that Pi4 is running Klipper, of course it is not loaded up. Kipper pushes 100% of the real-time work onto the MCU. The Pi only has to read the g-code file and do the motion planning and run the web server based GUI. Screen rendering and mouse tracking and all the low-level GUI stuff is done on the user’s web browser.LCNC is just the opposite, so you can’t compare. Klipper does not care at all which OS you run. It runs very well in a virtual machine or even on a Pi-zero. I’m using a Pi3, 1GB and see only 8% CPU usage In fact you can run multiple copies of Klipper on one computer and drive multiple printers at the same time. > running my 11x54 Sheldon lathe. Install the build-essential & the latest > python 3, hook it to a breakout board fed by a usb-3 cable, and build lcnc > from master's src. It ought to just work. Might have to build a rt kernel, > but my 3d printers don't seem to mind the current jammy offering. But let’s say you were a sign maker and wanted to cut out plastic letters with a CO2 laser. You bill your customers at $125 per machine-hour. How many hours do you want to spend learning to build real-time kernels, it costs you $125 for every one of those non-billable hours. And on top of that maybe marketing and sales are not getting done while you work on a DIY CNC project. Same with plumbing, It is not technically hard to repair pipes, snake drains, or replace a water heater.But what if you own a restaurant? The owner is more than happy to pay the $250/hr rate to have two plumbers and a well-stocked truck show up and fix the problem because he has to close the business until the problem is fixed. So in an industrial setting DIY could very easily be much more expensive than buying a turn-key system or even hiring the work done for you. But on the other hand, many of us are not in a situation where “toime is money” and LCNC is a good fit. But it is not a good fit at all for everyone. > It ID's itself as: > > Linux bpi51e5p 6.6.16-current-meson64 #1 SMP PREEMPT. > > Arm64 stuff is encroaching on our territory, its power miserly AND stable as > the Rock of Gibralter. Uptimes are from power outage to power outage. >> Just curious if this is finally the step into the single small box with >> LinuxCNC or MachineKit Turnkey CNC system for the older MACH or other users. >> Or has the market now matured enough with other solutions like the Centroid >> ACORN >> https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html >> and it's pointless to even bother with LinuxCNC? >> John >> ___ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> . > > Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. > -- > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) > If we desire respect for the law, we must
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 at 17:31, John Dammeyer wrote: Except it would still require an add on card still called a cape perhaps? I think that the attraction of the Beagleboard was that the PRU could be used for step generation and encoder counting. There were some hats that included stepper drive, but you would need those anyway. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] BeagleY-AI
On 4/30/24 12:29, John Dammeyer wrote: Apparently available in June it looks like this version of the Beagle may well be a good successor to the original Beagle and MachineKit. https://www.mouser.ca/new/beagleboardorg/beagleboard-beagle-y-ai-computer/ Except it would still require an add on card still called a cape perhaps? And then would that cape be any cheaper than one of the Ethernet or SPI based products from MESA? Is the projected $70 US cost any lower than a brand new PC clone that already runs LinuxCNC? IDK about the beaglebone, it always seemed like something of a different design that took a heck of a lot of work AND interface hardware to do something similar to linuxcnc. What I am having good luck with running all the fancy stuff for 3d printers on them is the currently $65 bananapi-m5. All 4 usb ports are usb3 so speeds are not a problem. I am just now bringing up an old Ender 5 Plus that died a couple years ago, able to run at 30mm/second max because it comes with a puny Y motor, but now has 2 more bigger higher voltage power supply's, the X motors are now stepper/servo's, I belted the z motors together and unplugged one so bed tilt is locked, lots of heavy flying weight is now CF tubing, much lighter to throw around, and its loafing at 200mm/sec speeds. What it formerly took 3 days to make is now done in 17 hours. That bpi-m5 is talking to the $52 control card that runs the printer with a single usb-C cable. I have not tried linuxcnc on one of them but it runs fine on an rpi4b with 2 gigs of ram, running my 11x54 Sheldon lathe. Install the build-essential & the latest python 3, hook it to a breakout board fed by a usb-3 cable, and build lcnc from master's src. It ought to just work. Might have to build a rt kernel, but my 3d printers don't seem to mind the current jammy offering. It ID's itself as: Linux bpi51e5p 6.6.16-current-meson64 #1 SMP PREEMPT. Arm64 stuff is encroaching on our territory, its power miserly AND stable as the Rock of Gibralter. Uptimes are from power outage to power outage. Just curious if this is finally the step into the single small box with LinuxCNC or MachineKit Turnkey CNC system for the older MACH or other users. Or has the market now matured enough with other solutions like the Centroid ACORN https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html and it's pointless to even bother with LinuxCNC? John ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users . Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Capto
On Wed, 1 May 2024 at 11:57, Mehdi Dadashzade wrote: > hi andy did you managed to find the ISO 26623 ? Eventually, yes. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Capto
hi andy did you managed to find the ISO 26623 ? On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:32 PM andy pugh wrote: > On Sat, 27 Apr 2024 at 18:04, Roland Jollivet > wrote: > > > > > I don't know if you adopted Capto from scratch, or had some already, but > as > > a new tooling system did you consider the Kennametal KM system? > > > I basically just like Capto (and the fact that it can be connected with a > simple bolt is nice too, for my applications.) > > KM does not get the seal of approval over on Piratical Machinist: > > https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/tool-holder-types-capto-c6-vs-hsk-vs-new-km-on-a-milling-lathe.392266/post-3776517 > > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed > for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
