Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 30, 2012 04:36:56 AM Erik Christiansen did opine:

> I'm still catching up on a 1200 post backlog across a couple of lists,
> so here's a late reply.
> 
> On 25.01.12 05:44, gene heskett wrote:
> > I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating
> > point math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see
> > any mention of sed & math or floating point.
> 
> Gawk does floating point. On ubuntu, the manpage say
> VARIABLES, RECORDS AND FIELDS
>AWK variables are dynamic; they come into existence when they are
>first used.  Their  values  are  either  floating-point  numbers or
>strings, or both, depending upon how they are used.  AWK also has one
>dimensional arrays; arrays with multiple dimensions may  be  simuâ€گ
>lated.   Several  pre-defined  variables are set as a program runs;
>these are described as needed and summarized below.
> آ«
You apparently have better man pages than I. OTOH, I have the editing down 
pretty close to pat, and will probably, after cutting some air with the 
drill files, try and do a board tomorrow.  The etch files aren't a problem 
as they have no tool changes, and I have everything but the gage position 
coded into the drill files already, but forgot to bring the paper I wrote 
the tool change positions on to the house when I came in with very cold 
feet about 5ish last evening.  I have the attention span of a pet rock it 
seems these days. :)

However next time, being able to use gawk might be handy, thanks for the 
heads up.

> Manpages being only for confirming what you already know, but can't
> quite put in exactly the right syntax, there's also this:
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual/
> 
> Erik


Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Erik Christiansen]

I'm still catching up on a 1200 post backlog across a couple of lists,
so here's a late reply.

On 25.01.12 05:44, gene heskett wrote:
> I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating point 
> math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see any mention 
> of sed & math or floating point.

Gawk does floating point. On ubuntu, the manpage says:
» VARIABLES, RECORDS AND FIELDS
   AWK variables are dynamic; they come into existence when they are
   first used.  Their  values  are  either  floating-point  numbers or
   strings, or both, depending upon how they are used.  AWK also has one
   dimensional arrays; arrays with multiple dimensions may  be  simu‐
   lated.   Several  pre-defined  variables are set as a program runs;
   these are described as needed and summarized below.
«

Manpages being only for confirming what you already know, but can't
quite put in exactly the right syntax, there's also this:

http://www.gnu.org/software/gawk/manual/

Erik

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 09:53:54 PM Mark Cason did opine:

I took this private since its OT.

> On 01/26/2012 11:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Sorry to hear that, living on what "they" think you ought to be able
> > to live on sucks, big time.
> 
>I live ok on it, but, it's the unexpected thing that really throws a
> wrench into things.
> 
> >> I also have the spindle apart, to put new bearings in, and to
> >> 
> >> redesign the convoluted way of moving it.  Wayyy too much slop,
> >> the pinion would occasionally jump a tooth on the rack.
> > 
> > Yikes.

Now you have me wondering what the drive looks like on my 7x12.
 
>The pinion is a 14 tooth module 2 spline, which barely meshes with
> the tips of the teeth on the rack.  when I get my check next week, I'm
> going to order 2 - 15 tooth, and 2 - 16 tooth gear sets, to see which
> set fits better.  Then I will machine a new shaft to hold them.  Later
> on, I will machine a new pinion to fit.  As for the leadscrews, I may be
> able to make some TR24x3 nuts, and lap them until they fit the
> leadscrew.  Not optimal, but cheaper than ballscrews.

I fear I will have to do something similar to the table screws in my mill.  
Commercially available nuts are all 10x bigger than the cast iron blocks in 
there now.  I need to design something that puts more threads in the nuts 
so that the wear rate is more reasonable, while still not taking up any 
more room vertically.  The thought has come that I should buy 2 spares, and 
use them both, but with the inside one floating on the ends of a pair of 
cap screws all the way through the one you can see so they can be pushed 
apart to take up the slack.  Cap screws would give an allen head where the 
existing jack screws are just slotted set screws and damned hard to get a 
screw driver into them.  That's the thought anyway.
 
>The spindle has a MT3 taper, but I've been considering re-machining
> it to accept either CAT30 holders, or something like Kwik Switch, or
> SPI.  Then, I will have the ability to build a tool changer later on.
> By then, I might actually get some code out of Heeks, that gives me a
> part that somewhat resembles what I've drawn.

Heeks ISTR has been abandoned & Dan is telling folks to use freecad.
 
[...]

> > One could say I had a bit of a head start on a nix like os as I've
> > been running os9, now nitros9, on various trash-80 color computers
> > since about '85.  Not near as much security inherent in it, and the
> > scheduler is very simple but it was/is a great teacher, one of them
> > is running in the basement right now.  I can safely say that the
> > uptime for all the windows box's I've ever owned is probably under 24
> > hours, total.
> > Generally I build my own and the linux install dvd/cd is all they ever
> > see in the dvd reader.
> 
>In high school, circa 1983, I cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model III.
> Learned BASIC on that machine.
I wrote some transmitter remote/ ATS software for the Z-80 but came to the 
conclusion its architecture was hopelessly broken by its lack of anything 
like a conditional long branch, so you had to write all your conditionals 
upside down so the failure then took the next instruction which was the 
long branch you needed.  Confused the hell out of me at the time, about 
'81.

> 2 - 360K 5-1/4" floppies, and a serial
> connection to a master computer, witch had a whopping 5MB hard drive.  I
> played around with the CoCo's, but by then, I was in College, and using
> early IBM PC's.  After College, I was a Vacuum, and Transportation tech.
> maintaining cryopumps, targets, and rail systems, on sputtering machines
> that made hard drive platters...  Before it was all moved to Malaysia.
> Then, I became a robotics tech for a large multi-national corporation,
> mainly working with PLC's (AB, and Modicon), industrial computers, and
> custom computers running QNX.  There, I used OS/2 with Win3.1 on the
> desktop.  The other company standardized on Mac SE.
> 
>I used my own version of Linux for a couple of years, and it ran
> really fast, with uptimes measured in months.  But, it became a full
> time job just keeping up with all of the security issues, so I switched
> back to Red Hat, and then Fedora.  Now I'm running Ubuntu 11.10, but, I
> think that this is my last version of Ubuntu for full-time use.  My old
> laptop, with 10.04, could go for 30, or more days between reboots, and I
> only rebooted for kernel updates.  My new one, ran fine on 10.04, but
> some of the hardware was too new for it.  11.10 crashes daily, and
> things changed so much between the two versions, that I'm throughly
> pissed off with it, even after kicking Unity to the curb.  I'm not sure
> whether to go back to Fedora, or find something else.  Something with
> low dependency hell.

That isn't pclos then, it gets its long uptimes by simply not having the 
dependency hell software available in its repos.
 
>OH, and I never really liked Emacs, I use Vim, a

Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Cason]

On 01/26/2012 11:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> Sorry to hear that, living on what "they" think you ought to be able to
> live on sucks, big time.

   I live ok on it, but, it's the unexpected thing that really throws a 
wrench into things.

>
>> I also have the spindle apart, to put new bearings in, and to
>> redesign the convoluted way of moving it.  Wayyy too much slop, the
>> pinion would occasionally jump a tooth on the rack.
>
> Yikes.

   The pinion is a 14 tooth module 2 spline, which barely meshes with 
the tips of the teeth on the rack.  when I get my check next week, I'm 
going to order 2 - 15 tooth, and 2 - 16 tooth gear sets, to see which 
set fits better.  Then I will machine a new shaft to hold them.  Later 
on, I will machine a new pinion to fit.  As for the leadscrews, I may be 
able to make some TR24x3 nuts, and lap them until they fit the 
leadscrew.  Not optimal, but cheaper than ballscrews.

   The spindle has a MT3 taper, but I've been considering re-machining 
it to accept either CAT30 holders, or something like Kwik Switch, or 
SPI.  Then, I will have the ability to build a tool changer later on.  
By then, I might actually get some code out of Heeks, that gives me a 
part that somewhat resembles what I've drawn.


>>> There was a time when I dreamed in 6809 assembly.  So I know well how
>>> that works.  :)  Like you, now I write system daemons in bash. Except
>>> for its lack of floating point operations, its a pretty good OS (but
>>> don't tell that to an emacs fan) :)
>> BASH not directly handling floating point, is IMO it's only major
>> drawback.  I still have a few old bash scripts on my system, that are
>> over 100,000 lines long, and I use that same perl script throughout them
>> for math calculations.
>>
>> They are Linux installers, that will completely create a custom OS,
>> from source, calculate the time that it took to install each program, as
>> well as the percentage of time it took compared to the first program
>> that was created, and give me feedback, with fancy colored output.  All
>> this from a bare command prompt, no X required.
>>
> Neat!
>> I had been using Linux for 2 years, before I even looked at
>> installing X.
> One could say I had a bit of a head start on a nix like os as I've been
> running os9, now nitros9, on various trash-80 color computers since about
> '85.  Not near as much security inherent in it, and the scheduler is very
> simple but it was/is a great teacher, one of them is running in the
> basement right now.  I can safely say that the uptime for all the windows
> box's I've ever owned is probably under 24 hours, total.
> Generally I build my own and the linux install dvd/cd is all they ever see
> in the dvd reader.

   In high school, circa 1983, I cut my teeth on a TRS-80 Model III.  
Learned BASIC on that machine.  2 - 360K 5-1/4" floppies, and a serial 
connection to a master computer, witch had a whopping 5MB hard drive.  I 
played around with the CoCo's, but by then, I was in College, and using 
early IBM PC's.  After College, I was a Vacuum, and Transportation tech. 
maintaining cryopumps, targets, and rail systems, on sputtering machines 
that made hard drive platters...  Before it was all moved to Malaysia.  
Then, I became a robotics tech for a large multi-national corporation, 
mainly working with PLC's (AB, and Modicon), industrial computers, and 
custom computers running QNX.  There, I used OS/2 with Win3.1 on the 
desktop.  The other company standardized on Mac SE.

   I used my own version of Linux for a couple of years, and it ran 
really fast, with uptimes measured in months.  But, it became a full 
time job just keeping up with all of the security issues, so I switched 
back to Red Hat, and then Fedora.  Now I'm running Ubuntu 11.10, but, I 
think that this is my last version of Ubuntu for full-time use.  My old 
laptop, with 10.04, could go for 30, or more days between reboots, and I 
only rebooted for kernel updates.  My new one, ran fine on 10.04, but 
some of the hardware was too new for it.  11.10 crashes daily, and 
things changed so much between the two versions, that I'm throughly 
pissed off with it, even after kicking Unity to the curb.  I'm not sure 
whether to go back to Fedora, or find something else.  Something with 
low dependency hell.

   OH, and I never really liked Emacs, I use Vim, and I keep a term 
window open full time on my computer.  For me, it's easier to type 
something, than click through multiple menu's to find something.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:41:36 PM Mark Cason did opine:

> On 01/26/2012 05:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Which is why it seems more better an idea to grab what is in #5063
> > after the G38.2, and apply enough math to arrive at where you want it
> > to think it is, and do a G92 Zmath-result. To keep track of where the
> > machine needs to be, back at its own referenced home position, do a
> > G92.1 to clear the offset before going back to the tool change
> > position above the gage, for the next tool change. The way pcb-gcode
> > issues those commands is consistent, so a search for the M06 T, than
> > back up 2 moves and do the G92.1 Then after the M6 T# insert "call
> > ", which will do the G38.2, process the result and apply
> > diff as G92 Z The .drill files have 5 such change places each.
> 
>I'm a visual person, I need to "SEE" something to understand what's
> needed.  Looking at the above, gives me a headache.  BUT,   I still
> think that creating a script to adjust the g-code would be easier.
> 
> >> I have a hard enough time with EMC2/LinuxCNC, as it is,  For me
> >> at
> >> 
> >> least, the only other option would be to edit PCB-GCode, but I'm not
> >> well versed in ULP files.
> >> 
> >> Due to moving my shop, and having my CNC mill sitting on the
> >> floor in
> >> 
> >> pieces due to having worn out leadscrews, I'm not set up to test
> >> PCB-Gcode.
> > 
> > Ouch.  Bummer.  That day will come for my little toy too.  The XY nuts
> > are such a kludge, I should have spares on the shelf for when I break
> > one trying to take up the backlash. :(
> 
>Mine's a Speedway series Mill/Drill.  Cast iron nuts, on steel
> leadscrews works well in manual mode, but, running them back, and forth,
> on my hand coded g-code, for the last 2 years, wore the leadscrews out.
> Been seriously considering ballscrews, but Disability doesn't pay a
> third of what I used to make.

Sorry to hear that, living on what "they" think you ought to be able to 
live on sucks, big time.

>I also have the spindle apart, to put new bearings in, and to
> redesign the convoluted way of moving it.  Wayyy too much slop, the
> pinion would occasionally jump a tooth on the rack.
 
Yikes.

> >>> An old friend and engineer back in about 1960 was fond of the phrase
> >>> 'simplicate' and I'd think this qualifies.  :)
> >>> 
> >>> Cheers, Gene
> >>> 
> >> For me, this would be simple...
> >> 
> >> 
> >> DISCLAIMER:  I've been using Linux since '94 (Early SLS version),
> >> and
> >> 
> >> I can write (and have written) BASH scripts in my sleep.  They might
> >> not be the most efficient scripts, but they work for me.  I've been
> >> doing this for so long, I do most things without really thinking
> >> about HOW to do them.
> > 
> > There was a time when I dreamed in 6809 assembly.  So I know well how
> > that works.  :)  Like you, now I write system daemons in bash. Except
> > for its lack of floating point operations, its a pretty good OS (but
> > don't tell that to an emacs fan) :)
> 
>BASH not directly handling floating point, is IMO it's only major
> drawback.  I still have a few old bash scripts on my system, that are
> over 100,000 lines long, and I use that same perl script throughout them
> for math calculations.
> 
>They are Linux installers, that will completely create a custom OS,
> from source, calculate the time that it took to install each program, as
> well as the percentage of time it took compared to the first program
> that was created, and give me feedback, with fancy colored output.  All
> this from a bare command prompt, no X required.
> 
Neat!
>I had been using Linux for 2 years, before I even looked at
> installing X.

One could say I had a bit of a head start on a nix like os as I've been 
running os9, now nitros9, on various trash-80 color computers since about 
'85.  Not near as much security inherent in it, and the scheduler is very 
simple but it was/is a great teacher, one of them is running in the 
basement right now.  I can safely say that the uptime for all the windows 
box's I've ever owned is probably under 24 hours, total.
Generally I build my own and the linux install dvd/cd is all they ever see 
in the dvd reader.

> > Cheers, Gene


Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
No, that's wrong too.  Now there's a race condition between the rm and
the mv.  Hmm, I need more coffee.
-- Guy Maor on Debian Bug#25228

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Cason]

On 01/26/2012 05:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> Which is why it seems more better an idea to grab what is in #5063 
> after the G38.2, and apply enough math to arrive at where you want it 
> to think it is, and do a G92 Zmath-result. To keep track of where the 
> machine needs to be, back at its own referenced home position, do a 
> G92.1 to clear the offset before going back to the tool change 
> position above the gage, for the next tool change. The way pcb-gcode 
> issues those commands is consistent, so a search for the M06 T, than 
> back up 2 moves and do the G92.1 Then after the M6 T# insert "call 
> ", which will do the G38.2, process the result and apply 
> diff as G92 Z The .drill files have 5 such change places each. 

   I'm a visual person, I need to "SEE" something to understand what's 
needed.  Looking at the above, gives me a headache.  BUT,   I still 
think that creating a script to adjust the g-code would be easier.

>> I have a hard enough time with EMC2/LinuxCNC, as it is,  For me at
>> least, the only other option would be to edit PCB-GCode, but I'm not
>> well versed in ULP files.
>>
>> Due to moving my shop, and having my CNC mill sitting on the floor in
>> pieces due to having worn out leadscrews, I'm not set up to test
>> PCB-Gcode.
> Ouch.  Bummer.  That day will come for my little toy too.  The XY nuts are
> such a kludge, I should have spares on the shelf for when I break one
> trying to take up the backlash. :(

   Mine's a Speedway series Mill/Drill.  Cast iron nuts, on steel 
leadscrews works well in manual mode, but, running them back, and forth, 
on my hand coded g-code, for the last 2 years, wore the leadscrews out.  
Been seriously considering ballscrews, but Disability doesn't pay a 
third of what I used to make.

   I also have the spindle apart, to put new bearings in, and to 
redesign the convoluted way of moving it.  Wayyy too much slop, the 
pinion would occasionally jump a tooth on the rack.

>
>>> An old friend and engineer back in about 1960 was fond of the phrase
>>> 'simplicate' and I'd think this qualifies.  :)
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>> For me, this would be simple...
>>
>>
>> DISCLAIMER:  I've been using Linux since '94 (Early SLS version), and
>> I can write (and have written) BASH scripts in my sleep.  They might not
>> be the most efficient scripts, but they work for me.  I've been doing
>> this for so long, I do most things without really thinking about HOW to
>> do them.
> There was a time when I dreamed in 6809 assembly.  So I know well how that
> works.  :)  Like you, now I write system daemons in bash. Except for its
> lack of floating point operations, its a pretty good OS (but don't tell
> that to an emacs fan) :)

   BASH not directly handling floating point, is IMO it's only major 
drawback.  I still have a few old bash scripts on my system, that are 
over 100,000 lines long, and I use that same perl script throughout them 
for math calculations.

   They are Linux installers, that will completely create a custom OS, 
from source, calculate the time that it took to install each program, as 
well as the percentage of time it took compared to the first program 
that was created, and give me feedback, with fancy colored output.  All 
this from a bare command prompt, no X required.

   I had been using Linux for 2 years, before I even looked at installing X.

>
> Cheers, Gene


-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 06:27:28 AM Mark Cason did opine:

> On 01/26/2012 12:20 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:59:48 AM Mark Cason did opine:
> >> On 01/25/2012 04:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >> Hmmm, silly Q for you and Rafael: If, after having executed the G38.2
> >> and the machine is stopped, what sort of havoc would I create if I
> >> simply wrote the known height of the gage at contact, into #5063?
> >> That might not be the correct #number but you get the idea. What ever
> >> number would cause the machine's currant Z, both as displayed and
> >> internally used to determine the next move, to be corrected to the
> >> known gage height it is actually sitting at IOW?
> 
>I can't answer this :(
> 
> > Using bc or perl seems like a gawd-awful kludge even if it did work.
> > LinuxCNC has its own math functions that appear to my untrained eye to
> > be spot on, so why not use them directly?
> 
>Yes, it would be a kludge, but a fairly straightforward one.  This
> would have to be written as a "Go Between" script, that could read the
> output of PCB-GCode, modify the output, and parse it so that
> EMC2/LinuxCNC could understand what you want.
> 
> The 3 options I see are:
> 
>   1) Modify the g-code output of PCB-GCode,

by inserting a few lines of code seems the ideal method from here.

>   2) Modify PCB-GCode directly, so that it gives you what you want, or

unreal, given that the variables occur after pcb-gcode's view of the world.

>   3) figure out how to get EMC2/LinuxCNC to modify the g-code on the
> fly.

Which is why it seems more better an idea to grab what is in #5063 after 
the G38.2, and apply enough math to arrive at where you want it to think it 
is, and do a G92 Zmath-result.  To keep track of where the machine needs to 
be, back at its own referenced home position, do a G92.1 to clear the 
offset before going back to the tool change position above the gage, for 
the next tool change.  The way pcb-gcode issues those commands is 
consistent, so a search for the M06 T, than back up 2 moves and do the 
G92.1  Then after the M6 T# insert "call ", which will do the 
G38.2, process the result and apply diff as G92 Z

The .drill files have 5 such change places each.
 
>I have a hard enough time with EMC2/LinuxCNC, as it is,  For me at
> least, the only other option would be to edit PCB-GCode, but I'm not
> well versed in ULP files.
> 
>Due to moving my shop, and having my CNC mill sitting on the floor in
> pieces due to having worn out leadscrews, I'm not set up to test
> PCB-Gcode.

Ouch.  Bummer.  That day will come for my little toy too.  The XY nuts are 
such a kludge, I should have spares on the shelf for when I break one 
trying to take up the backlash. :(

> > An old friend and engineer back in about 1960 was fond of the phrase
> > 'simplicate' and I'd think this qualifies.  :)
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
>For me, this would be simple...
> 
> 
>DISCLAIMER:  I've been using Linux since '94 (Early SLS version), and
> I can write (and have written) BASH scripts in my sleep.  They might not
> be the most efficient scripts, but they work for me.  I've been doing
> this for so long, I do most things without really thinking about HOW to
> do them.

There was a time when I dreamed in 6809 assembly.  So I know well how that 
works.  :)  Like you, now I write system daemons in bash. Except for its 
lack of floating point operations, its a pretty good OS (but don't tell 
that to an emacs fan) :)

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Political history is far too criminal a subject to be a fit thing to
teach children.
-- W.H. Auden

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Cason]

On 01/26/2012 12:20 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:59:48 AM Mark Cason did opine:
>
>> On 01/25/2012 04:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> Hmmm, silly Q for you and Rafael: If, after having executed the G38.2 
>> and the machine is stopped, what sort of havoc would I create if I 
>> simply wrote the known height of the gage at contact, into #5063? 
>> That might not be the correct #number but you get the idea. What ever 
>> number would cause the machine's currant Z, both as displayed and 
>> internally used to determine the next move, to be corrected to the 
>> known gage height it is actually sitting at IOW?

   I can't answer this :(

>
> Using bc or perl seems like a gawd-awful kludge even if it did work.
> LinuxCNC has its own math functions that appear to my untrained eye to be
> spot on, so why not use them directly?

   Yes, it would be a kludge, but a fairly straightforward one.  This 
would have to be written as a "Go Between" script, that could read the 
output of PCB-GCode, modify the output, and parse it so that 
EMC2/LinuxCNC could understand what you want.

The 3 options I see are:

  1) Modify the g-code output of PCB-GCode,
  2) Modify PCB-GCode directly, so that it gives you what you want, or
  3) figure out how to get EMC2/LinuxCNC to modify the g-code on the fly.

   I have a hard enough time with EMC2/LinuxCNC, as it is,  For me at 
least, the only other option would be to edit PCB-GCode, but I'm not 
well versed in ULP files.

   Due to moving my shop, and having my CNC mill sitting on the floor in 
pieces due to having worn out leadscrews, I'm not set up to test PCB-Gcode.

> An old friend and engineer back in about 1960 was fond of the phrase
> 'simplicate' and I'd think this qualifies.  :)
>
> Cheers, Gene

   For me, this would be simple...


   DISCLAIMER:  I've been using Linux since '94 (Early SLS version), and 
I can write (and have written) BASH scripts in my sleep.  They might not 
be the most efficient scripts, but they work for me.  I've been doing 
this for so long, I do most things without really thinking about HOW to 
do them.


-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Thursday, January 26, 2012 12:59:48 AM Mark Cason did opine:

> On 01/25/2012 04:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Why not try (g)awk? You can search, match strings, and do some math
> > with it. Of course you could always use a combination of sed, awk and
> > bash, or simply perl.
> > I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating
> > point math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see
> > any mention of sed&  math or floating point.
> 
>BC is a precision calculator, that works in BASH, but it has a known
> rounding error, that caused me all kinds of problem.
> 
>If you have perl, you can do floating point math like this:
> perl -e 'printf(STDOUT "%.3f\n", eval($Math_goes_here))';
> 
>The %.3f is the precision, which can be run out to many multiple
> decimal places.  The \n is a newline command.  Without it, the output
> will be appended to the current line.
> 
>It is easy to embed in other scripts with a variable in the eval()
> statement.  The precison can also be a variable.  I have many BASH
> scripts that use this same command.

Hmmm, silly Q for you and Rafael:  If, after having executed the G38.2 and 
the machine is stopped, what sort of havoc would I create if I simply wrote 
the known height of the gage at contact, into #5063?  That might not be the 
correct #number but you get the idea.  What ever number would cause the 
machine's currant Z, both as displayed and internally used to determine the 
next move, to be corrected to the known gage height it is actually sitting 
at IOW?

Using bc or perl seems like a gawd-awful kludge even if it did work.  
LinuxCNC has its own math functions that appear to my untrained eye to be 
spot on, so why not use them directly?

An old friend and engineer back in about 1960 was fond of the phrase 
'simplicate' and I'd think this qualifies.  :)

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Take what you can use and let the rest go by.
-- Ken Kesey

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Cason]

On 01/25/2012 04:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> Why not try (g)awk? You can search, match strings, and do some math with
> it. Of course you could always use a combination of sed, awk and bash,
> or simply perl.
> I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating point
> math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see any mention
> of sed&  math or floating point.
>

   BC is a precision calculator, that works in BASH, but it has a known 
rounding error, that caused me all kinds of problem.

   If you have perl, you can do floating point math like this:
perl -e 'printf(STDOUT "%.3f\n", eval($Math_goes_here))';

   The %.3f is the precision, which can be run out to many multiple 
decimal places.  The \n is a newline command.  Without it, the output 
will be appended to the current line.

   It is easy to embed in other scripts with a variable in the eval() 
statement.  The precison can also be a variable.  I have many BASH 
scripts that use this same command.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 01/25/2012 02:44 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 05:29:19 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
>
>> On 01/24/2012 11:21 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 01:46:15 PM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
>>>
>>> [...]

>> Why not try (g)awk? You can search, match strings, and do some math with
>> it. Of course you could always use a combination of sed, awk and bash,
>> or simply perl.
>
> I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating point
> math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see any mention
> of sed&  math or floating point.
>

Well, there's yet another Unix thing, bc man pages sayz:
bc - An arbitrary precision calculator language

The  most  basic element in bc is the number. Numbers are arbitrary 
precision numbers. This precision is both in the integer part and the 
fractional part.  All numbers are represented internally in decimal and 
  all  computation  is  done  in  decimal.

For your amusement: man pages come with EXAMPLES. How about that?

> It turns out the easiest way is add a G92 x2.195 before the first move in
> the top of the file, and a G92.1 to clear it at the bottom.
>

Not good at G-code. However,
myvar=2.195
result=$(echo $myvar | awk 'CONVFMT = "%2.2f"{printf (2.5 * $1)}');echo 
$result
5.49

result=$(echo $myvar | awk 'CONVFMT = "%2.1f"{printf (2.5 * $1)}');echo 
$result
5.5

result=$(echo $myvar | awk 'CONVFMT = "%2.4f"{printf (2.5 * $1)}');echo 
$result
5.4875

result=$(echo $myvar | awk 'CONVFMT = "%2.8f"{printf (2.5 * $1)}');echo 
$result
5.4875

seem to work. Note printf.
result=$(echo $myvar | awk 'CONVFMT = "%2.8f"{print (2.5 * $1)}');echo 
$result
5.4875

default "print" ignores formating.

> But I've changed the location of the tool change, so I'm now making a
> contact gage to sit on the table to set drill lengths and will add the
> probing code after each M6.  That's a heck of a lot better than having to
> edit 24k LOC line by line. :)
>

24 karat? We want pictures :-)

> I have nfs working both ways now too, which means I can put pcb-gcode
> output files directly on the mill from pcb-gcode.
>

Cool.

>> From the properties list, it looks like about 3 hours to make one board
> plus bit changes&  board remounting.  Needs more spindle rpms by at least
> 10x.
>
> Question, what ipm feeds for a 60 degree sharp pointed carbide bit, running
> about 3 thou deep, would be recommended when 2500 revs is all you have?
>
> Cheers, Gene

Sorry can't help you here.

-- 
Rafael

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/25/2012 05:48 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>>  
> The pclos box Mark.  Its a little odd.  OTOH so is ubuntu when your first
> experience with linux was redhat.  You can sudo gedit, but not su - or sudo
> -i&  then run gedit,  no biggie.  I've used vim for 20 years, so its not
> like it was new to me.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Gene,

Yah, I used to have some rather convoluted .cshrc's when we had a mixed 
*nix environment and had to log in remotely and bring up stuff on my 
local machine.  We've simplified here at work to Solaris (or Oracle 
Solaris or whatever the hell they call it now), Red Hat, Ubuntu and 
CentOS (open source version of Red Hat).  It's nice to simplify.  ;-)

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 05:45:30 AM Mark Wendt did opine:

> On 01/24/2012 02:21 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > I probably have 5 or 7 tabs open, su- at any one time.  Biggest
> > problem then is that x belongs to gene, and root collects megabytes
> > of x errors when root forgets to use vim and tries to use gedit.
> 
> Gene, is this on the pclos machine, or on the Ubuntu box?  On my Ubuntu
> box here at work, when I "su -", $DISPLAY is automagically set to :0 and
> I can bring up gedit as root with no problems.
> 
The pclos box Mark.  Its a little odd.  OTOH so is ubuntu when your first 
experience with linux was redhat.  You can sudo gedit, but not su - or sudo 
-i & then run gedit,  no biggie.  I've used vim for 20 years, so its not 
like it was new to me.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Batteries not included.

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 05:29:19 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine:

> On 01/24/2012 11:21 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 01:46:15 PM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > 
> > Chuckle, I need that this morning (morning?  Duh, it's past 2pm), the
> > 2nd cup hasn't kicked in yet. :(
> > 
> > I've now been searching the package repo looking for a sed-like util
> > that can do the additions.  4 hours wasted and I am only down the the
> > middle of the p's.  Sigh.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Why not try (g)awk? You can search, match strings, and do some math with
> it. Of course you could always use a combination of sed, awk and bash,
> or simply perl.

I looked at the gawk man page, didn't see any mention of floating point 
math so I kept on looking.  Bash only does integer.  Didn't see any mention 
of sed & math or floating point.

It turns out the easiest way is add a G92 x2.195 before the first move in 
the top of the file, and a G92.1 to clear it at the bottom.

But I've changed the location of the tool change, so I'm now making a 
contact gage to sit on the table to set drill lengths and will add the 
probing code after each M6.  That's a heck of a lot better than having to 
edit 24k LOC line by line. :)

I have nfs working both ways now too, which means I can put pcb-gcode 
output files directly on the mill from pcb-gcode.

>From the properties list, it looks like about 3 hours to make one board 
plus bit changes & board remounting.  Needs more spindle rpms by at least 
10x.

Question, what ipm feeds for a 60 degree sharp pointed carbide bit, running 
about 3 thou deep, would be recommended when 2500 revs is all you have?

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Allen's Axiom:
When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/24/2012 02:21 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> I probably have 5 or 7 tabs open, su- at any one time.  Biggest problem
> then is that x belongs to gene, and root collects megabytes of x errors
> when root forgets to use vim and tries to use gedit.
>
Gene, is this on the pclos machine, or on the Ubuntu box?  On my Ubuntu 
box here at work, when I "su -", $DISPLAY is automagically set to :0 and 
I can bring up gedit as root with no problems.
> - in screen utility I also create first text screen for use as root.
>> Others are named by function or remote host.
>>
>> If you are going to rename or change UID or GID it's best to do it in
>> text terminal, i.e. not under KDE or Gnome for yourself as you'll pull
>> the rug under your feet. You could create a new user with desired
>> UID/GID in GUI but you'll need to make different login account name. The
>> easiest IMO is to do the following:
>>
>> - Assuming you are at GUI login prompt, don't login, use Ctrl-Alt-F1 to
>> go to text mode terminal,
>>
>> - login and become root with 'sudo su -' (ubuntu and some other distros)
>>
>> - edit /etc/passwd to change UID and GID
>> :x:1000:1000:user name,,,:/home/:/bin/bash
>> ^^   ^^
>>
>> - run command pwconv
>>
>> - edit /etc/group
>> :x:1000:
>> ^^
>> - run
>> chown -R.  /home/
>> to change ownership to all files in users home directory.
>>
>> - Reboot and you should be able to login as a user with new UID/GID.
>>  
> That makes a lot of sense, doing it that way, but since nfs is working now,
> I'll likely skip it.  Once I get the forward path in nfs set, then I can
> redirect pcb-gcodes output files directly to the
> ~/gene/emc2/nc_files/project_subdir on the milling machine, and only be
> missing one thing.
>
I'd still redo the UID/GID's even with NFS.  If your accounts have the 
same UID/GID's you don't have to fudge around with directory 
permissions, and it makes your NFS more secure.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 01/24/2012 11:21 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 01:46:15 PM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
>
> [...]
>

> Chuckle, I need that this morning (morning?  Duh, it's past 2pm), the 2nd
> cup hasn't kicked in yet. :(
>
> I've now been searching the package repo looking for a sed-like util that
> can do the additions.  4 hours wasted and I am only down the the middle of
> the p's.  Sigh.
>
> Cheers, Gene

Why not try (g)awk? You can search, match strings, and do some math with 
it. Of course you could always use a combination of sed, awk and bash, 
or simply perl.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 01:46:15 PM Rafael Skodlar did opine:

[...]
 
> What I have in all my Linux workstations is this:
> - in konsole (my favorite GUI terminal) I open a number of tabs. First
> one is always reserved for root. I label it root and to use it I
> normally do sudo su -

I probably have 5 or 7 tabs open, su- at any one time.  Biggest problem 
then is that x belongs to gene, and root collects megabytes of x errors 
when root forgets to use vim and tries to use gedit.
 
> that gives me full root environment needed to manage packages, hard
> mount files, ISO images, etc. manually. That way I can easily remember
> what I'm doing in each "tab".

Yup.
 
> - in screen utility I also create first text screen for use as root.
> Others are named by function or remote host.
> 
> If you are going to rename or change UID or GID it's best to do it in
> text terminal, i.e. not under KDE or Gnome for yourself as you'll pull
> the rug under your feet. You could create a new user with desired
> UID/GID in GUI but you'll need to make different login account name. The
> easiest IMO is to do the following:
> 
> - Assuming you are at GUI login prompt, don't login, use Ctrl-Alt-F1 to
> go to text mode terminal,
> 
> - login and become root with 'sudo su -' (ubuntu and some other distros)
> 
> - edit /etc/passwd to change UID and GID
> :x:1000:1000:user name,,,:/home/:/bin/bash
>^^   ^^
> 
> - run command pwconv
> 
> - edit /etc/group
> :x:1000:
>^^
> - run
> chown -R . /home/
> to change ownership to all files in users home directory.
> 
> - Reboot and you should be able to login as a user with new UID/GID.

That makes a lot of sense, doing it that way, but since nfs is working now, 
I'll likely skip it.  Once I get the forward path in nfs set, then I can 
redirect pcb-gcodes output files directly to the 
~/gene/emc2/nc_files/project_subdir on the milling machine, and only be 
missing one thing.

And that is either a stream file editor to manipulate the X in a 
.bot. file to be X, thereby offsetting the file back to the 
board pocket in the board fixture.

sed comes to mind, but apparently has no math functions, only text, so its 
DOA as a simple solution.

pcb-gcode does the "Mirror" function by negating the Xvalues it writes to a  
.bot. file, but that makes the mirror on the minus side of X0.0 and I need 
to offset it back to the right so it hits the board turned over on the Y 
axis and remounted to the fixture.  This could also be done if its 
possible, in the file setup header if a "for the duration of the file" 
gcode "touch off" could be done without moving the machine itself as long 
as there is a matching "touch off cancel" so we leave it in a known state 
for the next run.

Actually, moving the machines X to the right by the length of the board in 
the gcode input, then doing the "touch off" would also get the job done.  
So the success of that depends on how hard it is to do an in-code touch 
off.  Either way should allow near perfect registration of the top & bottom 
of the board.

Either method would allow correcting this pcb-gcode shortcoming.  I got a 
msg back from the author but he is in school, up to his butt in study 
alligators and can't get back to it for a while.
 
> If you make a mistake in the passwd file and cannot login anymore,
> reboot and use live CD (ubuntu, knoppix, fedora, etc.), to bootup, mount
> root partition, edit/fix passwd file and reboot. No need to reinstall.
> 
> Now make some coffee:
> http://blip.tv/linuxconfau/building-a-linux-powered-coffee-roaster-47470
> 63

Chuckle, I need that this morning (morning?  Duh, it's past 2pm), the 2nd 
cup hasn't kicked in yet. :(

I've now been searching the package repo looking for a sed-like util that 
can do the additions.  4 hours wasted and I am only down the the middle of 
the p's.  Sigh.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
We have only two things to worry about:  That things will never get
back to normal, and that they already have.

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/23/2012 02:16 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Thanks Mark, but I think NFS is going to solve my problems in that regard.
> After 14 years of failure, I made it work, with a lot of help from this
> list, this morning. Sweet!  Shame on the man page writers for abstracting
> the requirements till nobody but a 40 year experienced unix guru could
> translate that gibberish into something usable.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Gene,

Wholeheartedly agree on man pages being cryptic, and at times, quite 
abstract.  Best online help pages I ever used were on VMS machines.

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 01/23/2012 06:31 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2012 08:49:08 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
>
>>> There is security, and there is Pain in the Ass obnoxiousness, this is
>>> the latter.
>>>
>>> I'd be much appreciative of an idiot-proof (and I'm apparently the
>>> idiot)
>>
>> Don't do that too often as we might assume something :-) Your emails are
>> amusing and educational also.
>
> Like most old fart farts, I do find the mental processes are slowing,
> particularly the short term memory aspects.  I will be the first to admit
> that the tested IQ I had at age 12, 65 years ago, 147, has faded enough
> that its starting to get my attention.  Now I have to grab the eagle book
> Ed was kind enough to print and send me and dbl-check just about everything
> I do if its been 20 minutes since I last did it.  TBH, that hurts, a lot.
>
> How much of that can be thrown at the number of calendars I've thrown away,
> and how much to the blood vessel damages that type 2 diabetes is doing to
> me, is probably open for debate.  I really worry when the glucose hits
> 200+, but its been years since I tested under 135 2 checks in a row.
>
>>> method of send this stuff around on my home, private as I can make it,
>>> network.
>>>
>>> Thanks all.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>
>> The following needs to be done as root or use sudo:
>>
>> * assume one side is the NFS server:
> This machine
>> - install package autofs
> done
>> - edit /etc/exports with something like
>> /home/gene(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
> done
>> - restart autofs
> this worked, it wasn't running
>> service nfs-kernel-server restart
> no such service on a pclos machine
>> test with
>> showmount -e<- to get
>> Export list for:
>> /home/gene *
> [root@coyote gene]# showmount -e
> Export list for coyote.coyote.den:
> /home/gene *
>
>> * on the workstation side:
>> - install package autofs
>> - edit /etc/auto.master to enable auto.net function
>> /net-hosts<- line that likely needs to be uncommented
> service autofs restart
> returns:
>   autofs start/running, process 24811
>
>> that will let you see (automount) servers' export under
>> /net/
>> where  is your "other PC". ls /net shows nothing while 'ls
>> /net/   should show exported files in your home directory.
>> Now let's test this setup:
>> touch /net//xxx
>> ls -l /net//xxx
> gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote
> home
> and:
> gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote/home/gene/eagle
> lathe-encoder  ulp
> gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote/home/gene/eagle/lathe-encoder
> eagle.epf  lathe-encoder.b#2lathe-encoder.bot.etch.tap
> lathe-encoder.pro  lathe-encoder.top.drill.tap
> lathe-encoder.b##  lathe-encoder.b#3lathe-encoder.bot.mill.tap
> lathe-encoder.s#1  lathe-encoder.top.etch.tap
> lathe-encoder.b#1  lathe-encoder.bot.drill.tap  lathe-encoder.brd
> lathe-encoder.sch  lathe-encoder.top.mill.tap
> gene@shop:/etc$
>

Good, you are making a progress.

> Amazingly (to me) it looks like it is working.  A first since I switched
> from amigados to linux in 1997.
>

There were some bugs in autofs scripts which caused a lot of grief in 
the industry for a while.

> One more test from the shop box
> gene@shop:/etc$ touch /net/coyote/home/gene/killroy-was-here
> touch: cannot touch `/net/coyote/home/gene/killroy-was-here': Permission
> denied
>
> So its a one way deal at best.  I can fire up mc and copy a directories
> contents from here to the shop, and just did, but I can't move anything
> back.  To get things like the drill files in sync, it needs to be a 2 way
> deal.  Is this as simple as making matching entries for exports and such on
> both machines so that each machine is both client and server?
>

Yes, make similar config on another side, restart NFS, and it should work.

> Thank you very much, Rafael.  Nothing beats clear&  concise instructions.
>
> Cheers, Gene

What I have in all my Linux workstations is this:
- in konsole (my favorite GUI terminal) I open a number of tabs. First 
one is always reserved for root. I label it root and to use it I normally do
sudo su -

that gives me full root environment needed to manage packages, hard 
mount files, ISO images, etc. manually. That way I can easily remember 
what I'm doing in each "tab".

- in screen utility I also create first text screen for use as root. 
Others are named by function or remote host.

If you are going to rename or change UID or GID it's best to do it in 
text terminal, i.e. not under KDE or Gnome for yourself as you'll pull 
the rug under your feet. You could create a new user with desired 
UID/GID in GUI but you'll need to make different login account name. The 
easiest IMO is to do the following:

- Assuming you are at GUI login prompt, don't login, use Ctrl-Alt-F1 to 
go to text mode terminal,

- login and become root with 'sudo su -' (ubuntu and some other distros)

- edit /etc/passwd to change UID and GID
:x:1000:1000:user name,,,:/home/:/bin/bash
   ^^   ^^

- run command pwconv

- edit /etc

Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 23, 2012 02:12:11 PM Mark Wendt did opine:

> On 01/23/2012 09:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, January 23, 2012 09:33:21 AM Mark Wendt did opine:
> > [...]
> > 
> >>> That's the rub, this box is pclos, first uid,gid is 500.
> >> 
> >> Nothing says that UID/GID has to be used.  Change the UIDs/GIDs so
> >> they match.  Since pclos is lower than the Ubuntu UID/GID schema, it
> >> won't hurt anything on the pclos box to change your user there to
> >> match the
> > 
> >> Ubuntu UID/GID.  You can also do this:
> > Except I lose sudo rights and must use su -.  pclos would rather sudo
> > went away anyway.
> 
> Nothing to change on the pclos box, only the Ubuntu box.
> 
> >> edit file /etc/login.defs with your favourite editor and find and
> >> replace this line :
> >> 
> >> UID_MIN   500
> >> GID_MIN   500
> >> 
> >> The 1000 as the UID/GID seems completely arbitrary, and Ubuntu seems
> >> to be the only one doing it.  Convention has it that UIDs/GIDs<= 100
> >> are for system use.  Anything above is non-system-priv'd.
> >> 
> >>> Cheers, Gene
> >> 
> >> Mark
> > 
> > The last time I tried to 'fix' that on the ubuntu box, I lost my sudo
> > rights and had to re-install.  I presume there should be a precise
> > order to do it in, but I haven't deciphered it in 2 tries yet.
> 
> As long as you use the group  and not the GID for additional
> groups, ie admin:x:120:wendt (this is in the group file, and also the
> group that is given higher privs in the /etc/sudoers file) you shouldn't
> have a problem.  Here's a page that outlines all the steps you need to
> do:
> 
> 

Thanks Mark, but I think NFS is going to solve my problems in that regard.  
After 14 years of failure, I made it work, with a lot of help from this 
list, this morning. Sweet!  Shame on the man page writers for abstracting 
the requirements till nobody but a 40 year experienced unix guru could 
translate that gibberish into something usable.

Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/23/2012 09:40 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, January 23, 2012 09:33:21 AM Mark Wendt did opine:
> [...]
>
>>> That's the rub, this box is pclos, first uid,gid is 500.
>>>
>> Nothing says that UID/GID has to be used.  Change the UIDs/GIDs so they
>> match.  Since pclos is lower than the Ubuntu UID/GID schema, it won't
>> hurt anything on the pclos box to change your user there to match the
>> Ubuntu UID/GID.  You can also do this:
>>  
> Except I lose sudo rights and must use su -.  pclos would rather sudo went
> away anyway.
>
Nothing to change on the pclos box, only the Ubuntu box.
>
>
>> edit file /etc/login.defs with your favourite editor and find and
>> replace this line :
>>
>> UID_MIN   500
>> GID_MIN   500
>>
>> The 1000 as the UID/GID seems completely arbitrary, and Ubuntu seems to
>> be the only one doing it.  Convention has it that UIDs/GIDs<= 100 are
>> for system use.  Anything above is non-system-priv'd.
>>
>>  
>>> Cheers, Gene
>>>
>> Mark
>>  
> The last time I tried to 'fix' that on the ubuntu box, I lost my sudo
> rights and had to re-install.  I presume there should be a precise order to
> do it in, but I haven't deciphered it in 2 tries yet.
>
As long as you use the group  and not the GID for additional 
groups, ie admin:x:120:wendt (this is in the group file, and also the 
group that is given higher privs in the /etc/sudoers file) you shouldn't 
have a problem.  Here's a page that outlines all the steps you need to do:


> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 23, 2012 09:33:21 AM Mark Wendt did opine:
[...] 
> > That's the rub, this box is pclos, first uid,gid is 500.
> 
> Nothing says that UID/GID has to be used.  Change the UIDs/GIDs so they
> match.  Since pclos is lower than the Ubuntu UID/GID schema, it won't
> hurt anything on the pclos box to change your user there to match the
> Ubuntu UID/GID.  You can also do this:

Except I lose sudo rights and must use su -.  pclos would rather sudo went 
away anyway.
 
> edit file /etc/login.defs with your favourite editor and find and
> replace this line :
> 
> UID_MIN   500
> GID_MIN   500
> 
> The 1000 as the UID/GID seems completely arbitrary, and Ubuntu seems to
> be the only one doing it.  Convention has it that UIDs/GIDs <= 100 are
> for system use.  Anything above is non-system-priv'd.
> 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Mark

The last time I tried to 'fix' that on the ubuntu box, I lost my sudo 
rights and had to re-install.  I presume there should be a precise order to 
do it in, but I haven't deciphered it in 2 tries yet. 

Thanks Mark.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Windows is the only solitaire game that requires 16 MB of RAM.

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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 23, 2012 08:49:08 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine:
 
> > There is security, and there is Pain in the Ass obnoxiousness, this is
> > the latter.
> > 
> > I'd be much appreciative of an idiot-proof (and I'm apparently the
> > idiot)
> 
> Don't do that too often as we might assume something :-) Your emails are
> amusing and educational also.

Like most old fart farts, I do find the mental processes are slowing, 
particularly the short term memory aspects.  I will be the first to admit 
that the tested IQ I had at age 12, 65 years ago, 147, has faded enough 
that its starting to get my attention.  Now I have to grab the eagle book 
Ed was kind enough to print and send me and dbl-check just about everything 
I do if its been 20 minutes since I last did it.  TBH, that hurts, a lot.

How much of that can be thrown at the number of calendars I've thrown away, 
and how much to the blood vessel damages that type 2 diabetes is doing to 
me, is probably open for debate.  I really worry when the glucose hits 
200+, but its been years since I tested under 135 2 checks in a row.

> > method of send this stuff around on my home, private as I can make it,
> > network.
> > 
> > Thanks all.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> The following needs to be done as root or use sudo:
> 
> * assume one side is the NFS server:
This machine
> - install package autofs
done
> - edit /etc/exports with something like
> /home/gene(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
done
> - restart autofs
this worked, it wasn't running
> service nfs-kernel-server restart
no such service on a pclos machine
> test with
> showmount -e<- to get
> Export list for :
> /home/gene *
[root@coyote gene]# showmount -e
Export list for coyote.coyote.den:
/home/gene *
 
> * on the workstation side:
> - install package autofs
> - edit /etc/auto.master to enable auto.net function
> /net-hosts   <- line that likely needs to be uncommented
service autofs restart
returns:
 autofs start/running, process 24811

> that will let you see (automount) servers' export under
> /net/
> where  is your "other PC". ls /net shows nothing while 'ls
> /net/  should show exported files in your home directory.
> Now let's test this setup:
> touch /net//xxx
> ls -l /net//xxx
gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote
home
and:
gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote/home/gene/eagle
lathe-encoder  ulp
gene@shop:/etc$ ls /net/coyote/home/gene/eagle/lathe-encoder
eagle.epf  lathe-encoder.b#2lathe-encoder.bot.etch.tap  
lathe-encoder.pro  lathe-encoder.top.drill.tap
lathe-encoder.b##  lathe-encoder.b#3lathe-encoder.bot.mill.tap  
lathe-encoder.s#1  lathe-encoder.top.etch.tap
lathe-encoder.b#1  lathe-encoder.bot.drill.tap  lathe-encoder.brd   
lathe-encoder.sch  lathe-encoder.top.mill.tap
gene@shop:/etc$

Amazingly (to me) it looks like it is working.  A first since I switched 
from amigados to linux in 1997.

One more test from the shop box
gene@shop:/etc$ touch /net/coyote/home/gene/killroy-was-here
touch: cannot touch `/net/coyote/home/gene/killroy-was-here': Permission 
denied

So its a one way deal at best.  I can fire up mc and copy a directories 
contents from here to the shop, and just did, but I can't move anything 
back.  To get things like the drill files in sync, it needs to be a 2 way 
deal.  Is this as simple as making matching entries for exports and such on 
both machines so that each machine is both client and server?

Thank you very much, Rafael.  Nothing beats clear & concise instructions.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Mark Wendt]

On 01/23/2012 02:05 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> mistake number two. Why the heck are you torturing Linux with protocols
>> mainly used for windows?
>>  
> Because historically, NFS has never worked, and its docs suck.
>
Setup is the key to NFS.  Agreed, the docs aren't all that great.
>
>
>>
>> mistake number 3. Don't use /mnt as that's traditionally used for quick
>> mounts like CDs, or USB thingies.
>>  
> I could put it in /media, or in / for that matter, its a share that should
> be there, no questions asked as long as both machines are booted up.  And
> that is the case 24/7/365 for these 2 boxes.
>
Usually a lot easier to create the mount point in the / directory.  
Media, mnt and net are all sorta kinda special directories.
>
>
>> The following needs to be done as root or use sudo:
>> * assume one side is the NFS server:
>> - install package autofs
>> - edit /etc/exports with something like
>> /home/gene(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
>>
>> - restart autofs
>> service nfs-kernel-server restart
>> test with
>> showmount -e<- to get
>> Export list for:
>> /home/gene *
>>
>> * on the workstation side:
>> - install package autofs
>> - edit /etc/auto.master to enable auto.net function
>> /net-hosts<- line that likely needs to be uncommented
>>
>> that will let you see (automount) servers' export under
>> /net/
>> where  is your "other PC". ls /net shows nothing while 'ls
>> /net/   should show exported files in your home directory.
>> Now let's test this setup:
>> touch /net//xxx
>> ls -l /net//xxx
>>
>> 2 minutes, no public exposure, assuming both sides have the same
>> distribution, (k)ubuntu in my case, and same UID,GID.
>>  
> That's the rub, this box is pclos, first uid,gid is 500.
>
Nothing says that UID/GID has to be used.  Change the UIDs/GIDs so they 
match.  Since pclos is lower than the Ubuntu UID/GID schema, it won't 
hurt anything on the pclos box to change your user there to match the 
Ubuntu UID/GID.  You can also do this:

edit file /etc/login.defs with your favourite editor and find and 
replace this line :

UID_MIN   500
GID_MIN   500

The 1000 as the UID/GID seems completely arbitrary, and Ubuntu seems to 
be the only one doing it.  Convention has it that UIDs/GIDs <= 100 are 
for system use.  Anything above is non-system-priv'd.

> Cheers, Gene

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 23, 2012 01:48:18 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine:

> Hi Gene,
> 
> On 01/22/2012 03:18 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Greets everybody;
> > 
> > I am going slowly berzakers here with this bs of having different
> > gid's on these two machines.
> 
> Didn't we discuss this some time back?

Yes, but it did not result in a working solution.

> > I am at that stage where I have files ready to rename and load into
> > emc (linuxcnc) to see what they look like in axis.
> > 
> > But I'll be damned if I can get scp to move the files.  Something has
> > been done to cifs so I cannot mount the shares defined from here,
> > regardless of which of the 10,000 monkeys output I try, its 'no
> > permission".
> > 
> > This is the line in my rc.local that has been mounting that box as a
> 
> mistake number one. No need to force that "manually". statement in
> /etc/fstab would be better. However, see automounter section bellow.
> 
> > read/write share at /mnt/shop, and which now fails, and was failing
> > even before I built the new box for the shop/mill:
> > 
> > mount -t cifs -o
> 
> mistake number two. Why the heck are you torturing Linux with protocols
> mainly used for windows?

Because historically, NFS has never worked, and its docs suck.
 
> > user=gene,passwd=gh10041934,uid=1000,forceuid,gid=1000,forcegid,noserv
> > erino //shop.coyote.den/shop-slash /mnt/shop
> 
> mistake number 3. Don't use /mnt as that's traditionally used for quick
> mounts like CDs, or USB thingies.

I could put it in /media, or in / for that matter, its a share that should 
be there, no questions asked as long as both machines are booted up.  And 
that is the case 24/7/365 for these 2 boxes.
 
> > response:
> > mount error(13): Permission denied
> > Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)
> > 
> > And of course in my man pages, error 13 is never mentioned.
> 
> Agree. Man pages are historically very poorly documented. First was lack
> of disk space, now it's a "tradition" not to show any examples of how to
> use some "freaking exotic command".
> 
> > But it worked for years before.  From testparm's output on the shop
> > box: [shop-slash]
> > 
> >  comment = The root directory of coyote's FC6 install
> >  path = /
> >  read only = No
> 
> that seem to be all "windows stuff". Handle it Unix style and you'll be
> better off (or it should on?).

As you can see from the FC6 in the comment line, its worked for a long time 
but died about a year back.

> > So I have resorted to copying the files to a publicly invisible web
> > page directory so that I can maybe fire up firefox out on that box
> > and save the files to it that way, but dammit there ought to be a
> > better way.
> 
> Why not simply scp files to "other box"? That will change ownership. You
> could use rsync -av -e ssh local_file userx@remotehost:~/some_subdir  

Yes, I have made that work, 5 or 6 times in the last month.  But again, 
that man page's lack of a known good working example make you play the 
10,000 monkeys writing the Barber of Seville scene.  This time I hunt thru 
the shell history and find one that I know worked 2 weeks ago, adjust the 
path to the new files I want to move, enter my user password and get 
another 100 permission denials or no such file msgs for all the variations.

> If you copy ssh public key to the other side you won't need to enter
> password each time.

Keys have been done.
 
> Better yet, setup NFS, see bellow.
> 
> > There is security, and there is Pain in the Ass obnoxiousness, this is
> > the latter.
> > 
> > I'd be much appreciative of an idiot-proof (and I'm apparently the
> > idiot)
> 
> Don't do that too often as we might assume something :-) Your emails are
> amusing and educational also.
> 
> > method of send this stuff around on my home, private as I can make it,
> > network.
> > 
> > Thanks all.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> The following needs to be done as root or use sudo:
> 
> * assume one side is the NFS server:
> - install package autofs
> - edit /etc/exports with something like
> /home/gene(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)
> 
> - restart autofs
> service nfs-kernel-server restart
> test with
> showmount -e<- to get
> Export list for :
> /home/gene *
> 
> * on the workstation side:
> - install package autofs
> - edit /etc/auto.master to enable auto.net function
> /net-hosts   <- line that likely needs to be uncommented
> 
> that will let you see (automount) servers' export under
> /net/
> where  is your "other PC". ls /net shows nothing while 'ls
> /net/  should show exported files in your home directory.
> Now let's test this setup:
> touch /net//xxx
> ls -l /net//xxx
> 
> 2 minutes, no public exposure, assuming both sides have the same
> distribution, (k)ubuntu in my case, and same UID,GID.

That's the rub, this box is pclos, first uid,gid is 500.

> If not I suggest
> you do that with changing it on one machine to match the other:
> - edit /etc/passwd
> - pwconv
> - edit 

Re: [Emc-users] [OT]Moveing pcb-gcode generated files to the milling machine=huge PIMA

[Rafael Skodlar]

Hi Gene,

On 01/22/2012 03:18 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> Greets everybody;
>
> I am going slowly berzakers here with this bs of having different gid's on
> these two machines.
>

Didn't we discuss this some time back?

> I am at that stage where I have files ready to rename and load into emc
> (linuxcnc) to see what they look like in axis.
>
> But I'll be damned if I can get scp to move the files.  Something has been
> done to cifs so I cannot mount the shares defined from here, regardless of
> which of the 10,000 monkeys output I try, its 'no permission".
>
> This is the line in my rc.local that has been mounting that box as a

mistake number one. No need to force that "manually". statement in 
/etc/fstab would be better. However, see automounter section bellow.

> read/write share at /mnt/shop, and which now fails, and was failing even
> before I built the new box for the shop/mill:
>
> mount -t cifs -o

mistake number two. Why the heck are you torturing Linux with protocols 
mainly used for windows?

> user=gene,passwd=gh10041934,uid=1000,forceuid,gid=1000,forcegid,noserverino
> //shop.coyote.den/shop-slash /mnt/shop
>

mistake number 3. Don't use /mnt as that's traditionally used for quick 
mounts like CDs, or USB thingies.

> response:
> mount error(13): Permission denied
> Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)
>
> And of course in my man pages, error 13 is never mentioned.
>

Agree. Man pages are historically very poorly documented. First was lack 
of disk space, now it's a "tradition" not to show any examples of how to 
use some "freaking exotic command".

> But it worked for years before.  From testparm's output on the shop box:
> [shop-slash]
>  comment = The root directory of coyote's FC6 install
>  path = /
>  read only = No
>

that seem to be all "windows stuff". Handle it Unix style and you'll be 
better off (or it should on?).

> So I have resorted to copying the files to a publicly invisible web page
> directory so that I can maybe fire up firefox out on that box and save the
> files to it that way, but dammit there ought to be a better way.

Why not simply scp files to "other box"? That will change ownership. You 
could use rsync -av -e ssh local_file userx@remotehost:~/some_subdir
If you copy ssh public key to the other side you won't need to enter 
password each time.

Better yet, setup NFS, see bellow.

> There is security, and there is Pain in the Ass obnoxiousness, this is the
> latter.
>
> I'd be much appreciative of an idiot-proof (and I'm apparently the idiot)

Don't do that too often as we might assume something :-) Your emails are 
amusing and educational also.

> method of send this stuff around on my home, private as I can make it,
> network.
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene

The following needs to be done as root or use sudo:

* assume one side is the NFS server:
- install package autofs
- edit /etc/exports with something like
/home/gene(rw,sync,no_subtree_check)

- restart autofs
service nfs-kernel-server restart
test with
showmount -e<- to get
Export list for :
/home/gene *

* on the workstation side:
- install package autofs
- edit /etc/auto.master to enable auto.net function
/net-hosts   <- line that likely needs to be uncommented

that will let you see (automount) servers' export under
/net/
where  is your "other PC". ls /net shows nothing while 'ls 
/net/  should show exported files in your home directory. 
Now let's test this setup:
touch /net//xxx
ls -l /net//xxx

2 minutes, no public exposure, assuming both sides have the same 
distribution, (k)ubuntu in my case, and same UID,GID. If not I suggest 
you do that with changing it on one machine to match the other:
- edit /etc/passwd
- pwconv
- edit /etc/group
chown -R . /home/

Note that automounter will disconnect after a timeout, 15min I believe, 
unless you have files open or you 'cd' into that space. That's normal. 
It will be visible next time you access the files.

Other option is to use sshfs which will mount directories in user space 
over ssh, see man pages.

I do make house calls on occasion :-)

Man it's noisy outside. Chinese/Vietnamese New Year. Firecrackers are 
chasing bad spirits away, I think.

-- 
Rafael

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