Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Tuesday 23 April 2013 15:55:19 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 4/22/2013 6:49 PM, andy pugh wrote: [...] We have 46,000 labels to calibrate and 5000 pages of these diagrams. I don't know which is worse---dealing with the diagrams themselves or trying to grok the designers' intent. I'd say poor you but maybe being able to do this guarantees a job for life, akin to being able to program in COBOL :-) Regards, Kent Thanks Kent, fresh back from getting a couple recalls on our Toy taken care of, and needed a good belly laugh, and that was it. :) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Truth never comes into the world but like a bastard, to the ignominy of him that brought her birth. -- Milton A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Tuesday 23 April 2013 15:59:53 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 4/22/2013 10:40 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 22 April 2013 22:25:37 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 4/16/2013 7:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: clipping out the previous discussion about documenting LinuxCNC configurations There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. ... Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene Sorry for coming to the party a week late. I've been very distracted lately. Your lady's health? My sympathies. I hope she is better now. No. Me thinks you exaggerate the problem just a bit. The Rockhopper server creates a diagram in SVG. One could save* the diagram to file from the browser, open the saved file in Inkscape, I didn't know it was svg. Hitting ctl+ in the browser did not magnify it enough to be useful so I assume it was spitting out postscript at 72 dpi. Unfortunately, the svg rendering engine in Firefox and Chrome doesn't support the magnification trick. I don't know if it ever will. There was a lot to like about Adobe's SVG Viewer plugin but Adobe killed the product 4 years ago. and either go through machinations to print it in tiles I like that idea, and will check it out, but now it will likely be later next week as we're headed to NYS over the weekend, Thursday I'm told. Well, I gave alternatives because I think the required machinations are clumsy. I forget the search term I used to find instructions out there in Internet land, some mix of poster and svg I suppose. ... you could modify the Rockhopper Python script so that in addition to creating the SVG file Graphviz would also create and save a PDF file for further use. That would be useful only if the PS engine can be convinced to output a 2400 dpi image before its compressed from the 2+ gigabytes of raw data that would generate. 72 dpi won't cut it. You're thinking of an uncompressed bitmap. The diagram is line art that is mostly white space. Compression techniques deal with that. As well, cranking the resolution up to 2400 dpi shouldn't be necessary. For the example configuration file configs/sim/axis/axis.ini, the size of the halgraph.svg file saved from the browser is of order 50 KB. Open it in Inkscape and save as a PDF file with default settings (I forget exactly; something less than 100 dpi IIRC). The PDF file size is less than 25 KB. Open the PDF file in the Gnome Document Viewer. Zoom to 400 percent and wait a while for the renderer to catch up. Result looks great. Unfortunately, the Document Viewer doesn't know how to print out tiled pages...let me rephrase that...I don't know how to make the Document Viewer print out tiled pages and as far as I know my printer driver doesn't support that function either. Hope your trip goes well. To quote the old Hill Street Blues show, let's be careful out there. Regards, Kent Well, they took care of the recalls, but of course they have to go over it with their fine toothed comb, last time it was a leaking water pump they could replace for about $400, (no leak visible, and I haven't added a drop of coolant to it yet in 5 moths since that pronouncement of doom) this time the front brake pads are down to about 3mm thick. The disks of course are rusty, so they want to replace it all, and then do the rear end another 10k down the log. Gotta find something to help pay for the recalls don'tcha know. :( I'll look at the pads when I get back, ATM its stopping on a dime, very quietly, and giving me back 9 cents change. I asked if 44k miles was about right to do that and the mechanic said no, its usually in the later 30k range. Good drivers are off the loud pedal far enough back they don't have to do stoppies at the next traffic light. And now State Farm wants to put a computer tattle tale on it, claiming that will lower our rates. Sure, and that one time a year that I give it a whole cup of good gulf to get out of the way of some idiot yakking on a cell phone else get hit, will cost me $200 year? I think not. That computer thingy might work 99% of the time, but it can't see the reason I did that, so screw'em. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 4/22/2013 6:49 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 April 2013 19:33, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com wrote: We both suffer from the problem that the size and complexity of a HAL diagram is potentially unbounded. Not just you. My job basically revolves around peering at Simulink diagrams (the code _is_ the documentation) trying to work out what the heck Bosch / Delphi / Ford / Volvo coders were trying to do. There are many pages in the docs I am given that can not be read even when zoomed to the limits of PDF. We have 46,000 labels to calibrate and 5000 pages of these diagrams. I don't know which is worse---dealing with the diagrams themselves or trying to grok the designers' intent. I'd say poor you but maybe being able to do this guarantees a job for life, akin to being able to program in COBOL :-) Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 4/22/2013 10:40 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 22 April 2013 22:25:37 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 4/16/2013 7:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: clipping out the previous discussion about documenting LinuxCNC configurations There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. ... Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene Sorry for coming to the party a week late. I've been very distracted lately. Your lady's health? My sympathies. I hope she is better now. No. Me thinks you exaggerate the problem just a bit. The Rockhopper server creates a diagram in SVG. One could save* the diagram to file from the browser, open the saved file in Inkscape, I didn't know it was svg. Hitting ctl+ in the browser did not magnify it enough to be useful so I assume it was spitting out postscript at 72 dpi. Unfortunately, the svg rendering engine in Firefox and Chrome doesn't support the magnification trick. I don't know if it ever will. There was a lot to like about Adobe's SVG Viewer plugin but Adobe killed the product 4 years ago. and either go through machinations to print it in tiles I like that idea, and will check it out, but now it will likely be later next week as we're headed to NYS over the weekend, Thursday I'm told. Well, I gave alternatives because I think the required machinations are clumsy. I forget the search term I used to find instructions out there in Internet land, some mix of poster and svg I suppose. ... you could modify the Rockhopper Python script so that in addition to creating the SVG file Graphviz would also create and save a PDF file for further use. That would be useful only if the PS engine can be convinced to output a 2400 dpi image before its compressed from the 2+ gigabytes of raw data that would generate. 72 dpi won't cut it. You're thinking of an uncompressed bitmap. The diagram is line art that is mostly white space. Compression techniques deal with that. As well, cranking the resolution up to 2400 dpi shouldn't be necessary. For the example configuration file configs/sim/axis/axis.ini, the size of the halgraph.svg file saved from the browser is of order 50 KB. Open it in Inkscape and save as a PDF file with default settings (I forget exactly; something less than 100 dpi IIRC). The PDF file size is less than 25 KB. Open the PDF file in the Gnome Document Viewer. Zoom to 400 percent and wait a while for the renderer to catch up. Result looks great. Unfortunately, the Document Viewer doesn't know how to print out tiled pages...let me rephrase that...I don't know how to make the Document Viewer print out tiled pages and as far as I know my printer driver doesn't support that function either. Hope your trip goes well. To quote the old Hill Street Blues show, let's be careful out there. Regards, Kent -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 4/16/2013 7:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 16 April 2013 19:05:57 andy pugh did opine: On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. ... Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene Sorry for coming to the party a week late. I've been very distracted lately. Me thinks you exaggerate the problem just a bit. The Rockhopper server creates a diagram in SVG. One could save* the diagram to file from the browser, open the saved file in Inkscape, and either go through machinations to print it in tiles or use the Inkscape save as function to create** a PDF version of the diagram. With that in hand, one could use available on-line servers or standalone utilities to print the diagram in tiles. Try searching on tiled printing. Note that some of the programs discussed in the Wikipedia article appear to have moved, changed authorship, or disappeared since the article was last edited and that the version of pdfposter that Synaptic Package Manager installed on my Ubuntu 10.04LTS system didn't behave (could be my own fault). I went to the latest version available from github.com (and found it a PITA to install, but I persevered). Let's take a step back though. The Rockhopper HAL Graph function works essentially the same way as my HAL2HTML program I posted about in the fall of 2011. The Rockhopper developers made most of the same design choices I did (you can see my list at https://sites.google.com/site/manisbutareed). Visually their diagrams and mine are slightly different (no question theirs are prettier; mine look like they were made by a bookkeeper). Mostly they are the same, though, because we both use Graphviz functionality to construct a graph from HAL information and to render the resulting diagram. One obvious difference is in the presentation of HAL signals: they chose to make them labelled nodes (rendered as dotted boxes) and I decided not to, making them labelled arcs instead. My choice reduces the number of nodes to be placed but makes for more contorted signal paths.The same information is communicated either way. We both suffer from the problem that the size and complexity of a HAL diagram is potentially unbounded. Looking at my Google site now I see that I never posted the next step in the evolution of my thinking. Trying to partition the completed graph automagically looked difficult to a lazy hacker like me The relevant Graphviz tools brought no joy. I decided instead to try the following: 1) create an overview diagram which showed all the HAL components by name only with no internal structure, e.g. no pins, and the interconnections between them. 2) create detailed nearest-neighbor diagrams, each showcasing a single HAL component and all the components to which it is interconnected, along with all pins involved in any interconnections. 3) embed these diagrams in HTML pages with hyperlink maps so one could navigate relatively easily among components on different diagrams. I implemented this approach and tested it with some of the example HAL configurations distributed with LinuxCNC. I thought the approach worked pretty well. Whether displayed or printed, each diagram was logically self-contained, more or less, and not just a tile cut out of a big diagram that wasn't laid out with tiling in mind. I'll try to add examples to my Google site so you can see what I mean. There obviously will be some redundancy. In the simplest case, consider two components A and B interconnected only with each other. My KISS approach will generate two nearest-neighbor diagrams, one for A is connected to B and one for B is connected to A. Someone less lazy that I would fix that by implementing better bookkeeping. C'est la vie. I put the HAL2HTML work aside because I wanted to explore coding up a Manhattan-routing algorithm to generate rectilinear interconnect paths in place of
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 22 April 2013 19:33, Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com wrote: We both suffer from the problem that the size and complexity of a HAL diagram is potentially unbounded. Not just you. My job basically revolves around peering at Simulink diagrams (the code _is_ the documentation) trying to work out what the heck Bosch / Delphi / Ford / Volvo coders were trying to do. There are many pages in the docs I am given that can not be read even when zoomed to the limits of PDF. We have 46,000 labels to calibrate and 5000 pages of these diagrams. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 4/22/2013 6:49 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 April 2013 19:33, Kent A. Reedkentallanr...@gmail.com wrote: We both suffer from the problem that the size and complexity of a HAL diagram is potentially unbounded. Not just you. My job basically revolves around peering at Simulink diagrams (the code _is_ the documentation) trying to work out what the heck Bosch / Delphi / Ford / Volvo coders were trying to do. There are many pages in the docs I am given that can not be read even when zoomed to the limits of PDF. We have 46,000 labels to calibrate and 5000 pages of these diagrams. Sounds like you need a really big computer screen.. a jumbotron comes to mind..:-) Or if your budget is similar to mine .. a junkyard jumbotron! http://jumbotron.media.mit.edu/ Dave -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Monday 22 April 2013 22:25:37 Kent A. Reed did opine: On 4/16/2013 7:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 16 April 2013 19:05:57 andy pugh did opine: On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. ... Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene Sorry for coming to the party a week late. I've been very distracted lately. Your lady's health? My sympathies. I hope she is better now. Me thinks you exaggerate the problem just a bit. The Rockhopper server creates a diagram in SVG. One could save* the diagram to file from the browser, open the saved file in Inkscape, I didn't know it was svg. Hitting ctl+ in the browser did not magnify it enough to be useful so I assume it was spitting out postscript at 72 dpi. and either go through machinations to print it in tiles I like that idea, and will check it out, but now it will likely be later next week as we're headed to NYS over the weekend, Thursday I'm told. or use the Inkscape save as function to create** a PDF version of the diagram. With that in hand, one could use available on-line servers or standalone utilities to print the diagram in tiles. Try searching on tiled printing. Note that some of the programs discussed in the Wikipedia article appear to have moved, changed authorship, or disappeared since the article was last edited and that the version of pdfposter that Synaptic Package Manager installed on my Ubuntu 10.04LTS system didn't behave (could be my own fault). I went to the latest version available from github.com (and found it a PITA to install, but I persevered). Let's take a step back though. The Rockhopper HAL Graph function works essentially the same way as my HAL2HTML program I posted about in the fall of 2011. The Rockhopper developers made most of the same design choices I did (you can see my list at https://sites.google.com/site/manisbutareed). Visually their diagrams and mine are slightly different (no question theirs are prettier; mine look like they were made by a bookkeeper). Mostly they are the same, though, because we both use Graphviz functionality to construct a graph from HAL information and to render the resulting diagram. One obvious difference is in the presentation of HAL signals: they chose to make them labelled nodes (rendered as dotted boxes) and I decided not to, making them labelled arcs instead. My choice reduces the number of nodes to be placed but makes for more contorted signal paths.The same information is communicated either way. We both suffer from the problem that the size and complexity of a HAL diagram is potentially unbounded. Looking at my Google site now I see that I never posted the next step in the evolution of my thinking. Trying to partition the completed graph automagically looked difficult to a lazy hacker like me The relevant Graphviz tools brought no joy. I decided instead to try the following: 1) create an overview diagram which showed all the HAL components by name only with no internal structure, e.g. no pins, and the interconnections between them. 2) create detailed nearest-neighbor diagrams, each showcasing a single HAL component and all the components to which it is interconnected, along with all pins involved in any interconnections. 3) embed these diagrams in HTML pages with hyperlink maps so one could navigate relatively easily among components on different diagrams. I implemented this approach and tested it with some of the example HAL configurations distributed with LinuxCNC. I thought the approach worked pretty well. Whether displayed or printed, each diagram was logically self-contained, more or less, and not just a tile cut out of a big diagram that wasn't laid out with tiling in mind. I'll try to add examples to my Google site so you can see what I mean. There obviously will be some
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
Hello, for the wiring drwings I use QElectrotech, that can run over linux. Is not the maximum but makes its job for simple drawings Regards, Luis Bellot 2013/4/16 Clint Washburn cl...@clintandheidi.com currently I have been I the process of tracing all the wiring in my lathe. For the moment I have been inputing all wires and terminations into a spreadsheet via notebook/tablet as I go. I have been wondering, what software free or paid do people use to generate the wiring diagrams like the ones you would get with a new machine tool? Thanks, Clint Washburn On Apr 16, 2013, at 5:48 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 04/16/2013 07:53 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: That long? Back in the day, when the usual group met at a friend's house for burgers and car fixin', that was his standard warranty. He also had a caveat: while he was willing to help you fix anything, you couldn't complain if you took some leftover parts home in a brown paper bag. A good time was had by all... -- Ed softsolder.com -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Wednesday 17 April 2013 10:36:42 Ed Nisley did opine: On 04/16/2013 07:53 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: That long? Back in the day, when the usual group met at a friend's house for burgers and car fixin', that was his standard warranty. He also had a caveat: while he was willing to help you fix anything, you couldn't complain if you took some leftover parts home in a brown paper bag. A good time was had by all... Chuckle. Sounds like my kind of people, Ed. But because I have the brown paper bag (actually a 50 cal BP rifle that I made a whole new bolt and firing pin assembly for) I put together Monday that I can't take apart for a photo record Tuesday, Wednesday will be spent making a .051 allen wrench, turns out the one I have that came out of a plastic pocket labeled .050, was actually .048, small enough to muck up the sockets in some hardened alloy 0-80 cap screws. But if I feed it the right bullets, a 300 Gr HPBT swaged and saboted in Canada, 80 gr of BH209 a CCI 209M primer, 3 of the last 5 shots yesterday went in one ragged hole, with the chrono showing just shy of 1500 fps average. I enjoy making a $200 sows ear in a plastic stock get all dressed up in some nicely figured maple with cherry caps, thumbhole style of course, looking good enough to get the ohhs and ahhs at the range, and shoot as well as I can. I think I'll keep it. :) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Nowlan's Theory: He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from the next freeway exit. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On 04/16/2013 08:48 AM, andy pugh wrote: It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram I recently beat the Eagle-to-HAL scripts and libraries into producing a complete HAL configuration for my Sherline, with USB Joggy Thing, XYXA axes, probe home switches, plus the default manual toolchanger: http://softsolder.com/2013/03/06/eagle-hal-configuration-sherline-hal-file-2/ Shorter link: http://wp.me/poZKh-3k2 Those schematics describe everything in the (admittedly few) HAL files for the Sherline and produce one monster auto-generated HAL file with the complete set of interconnections. The tedious part involves creating Eagle library parts to match the HAL components, but there's a good selection of the basics already available. I'll be forcing myself to do Mesa 5i25 / 7i76 boards (for some of the many firmware loads) in the near future. With the Eagle parts in hand, wiring 'em up in a schematic is straightforward. I think it's easier to see what's going on and *definitely* easier to make changes in a schematic than in the raw HAL text files. but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. Hasn't blown up on me yet, but the warranty covers only 30 seconds or the end of the driveway, whichever comes first... -- Ed softsolder.com -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Tuesday 16 April 2013 19:05:57 andy pugh did opine: On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. It could have been quite valuable as a troubleshooting tool had it rendered to a pdf that we could then have grabbed the sliders to move the screen view to anyplace in it. I tried to blow it up myself, but it rendered in postscripts default 72 dpi, so it wasn't readable at any scale for the diagram generated for my lathes, .hal files. I looked at the code to see if I could figure out how to fix it, but I wasn't familiar enough with the language to understand it, let alone troubleshoot it. Today, I don't even recall the name of it. Sorry. The mailing list archive for last fall might contain a reference, as it is this list that made me aware of it in the first place. Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml BOFH excuse #319: Your computer hasn't been returning all the bits it gets from the Internet. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Tuesday 16 April 2013 19:53:03 Ed Nisley did opine: On 04/16/2013 08:48 AM, andy pugh wrote: It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram I recently beat the Eagle-to-HAL scripts and libraries into producing a complete HAL configuration for my Sherline, with USB Joggy Thing, XYXA axes, probe home switches, plus the default manual toolchanger: http://softsolder.com/2013/03/06/eagle-hal-configuration-sherline-hal-fi le-2/ Shorter link: http://wp.me/poZKh-3k2 Those schematics describe everything in the (admittedly few) HAL files for the Sherline and produce one monster auto-generated HAL file with the complete set of interconnections. The tedious part involves creating Eagle library parts to match the HAL components, but there's a good selection of the basics already available. I'll be forcing myself to do Mesa 5i25 / 7i76 boards (for some of the many firmware loads) in the near future. With the Eagle parts in hand, wiring 'em up in a schematic is straightforward. I think it's easier to see what's going on and *definitely* easier to make changes in a schematic than in the raw HAL text files. but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. Hasn't blown up on me yet, but the warranty covers only 30 seconds or the end of the driveway, whichever comes first... That long? ;-) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml My haircut is totally traditional! A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
Document all modifications, sizes of fasteners, any alterations to the machine's parts that had to be done to fit the CNC motor mounts etc. Include pictures of it all! Do all that up in Word, print and comb bind, and include a digital copy on CD-R. Would be a good idea to keep a copy yourself because whatever it is, someone somewhere is going to manage to lose the documentation. I just went through that with a Sony laptop. A couple of years ago I did a clean install of Windows and gave the owner a CD with the customized Windows install and another CD with all the drivers. I just had to do it again but the owner has lost the discs. Would only be the extra time to find and download all the drivers again but the laptop has this funky scroll bar/wheel on it and for that model Sony has removed the scroll driver and software from their website and refuses to let anyone have it. So the lappy all works except for that scroll thing, which the owner liked because he used it to quickly access all his DJ and audio programs. Even worse is when a company discontinues a product, removes all mention of and software for the product from their website, destroys all physical documentation they had on hand, then denies they ever made such a thing. But I'm looking at your company name, logo and street address printed right on the thing! I'm sorry, sir. We didn't make that item. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
Along the same lines: What sort of suggestions does everybody have for organizing/commenting HAL and INI files. Mine are starting to get a little hard to read. I'm big on coding standards in general, as a big part of them is about code readability. Is there a method any of you use to do the same? N. Christopher Perry On Apr 16, 2013, at 19:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Tuesday 16 April 2013 19:05:57 andy pugh did opine: On 16 April 2013 10:49, propcoder marius.alks...@gmail.com wrote: electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) I don't do anything for anyone other than myself, but I would be lost without the wiring details. (and it really needs to be down to the level of pin numbers in every connector, and the wire colours between them) It would be nice to be able to generate a nice HAL diagram, and there have been various ways to do that suggested, but I am not sure any have been shown to work properly. There was a thingy that I assume worked, I installed it last fall, but it had one fatal flaw. It tried to make the whole diagram fit on a single sheet of paper, when, in order to have been able to read it with a magnifying glass, it would have had to be done in multi-page poster style that would have likely used 54 to 100+ sheets of paper to be taped together before the text in one of the teeny little logic boxes would have been big enough to read. It could have been quite valuable as a troubleshooting tool had it rendered to a pdf that we could then have grabbed the sliders to move the screen view to anyplace in it. I tried to blow it up myself, but it rendered in postscripts default 72 dpi, so it wasn't readable at any scale for the diagram generated for my lathes, .hal files. I looked at the code to see if I could figure out how to fix it, but I wasn't familiar enough with the language to understand it, let alone troubleshoot it. Today, I don't even recall the name of it. Sorry. The mailing list archive for last fall might contain a reference, as it is this list that made me aware of it in the first place. Looking on the lathes box, I find a ~/gene/src/RockHopper directory that looks like one of those usual suspects, was that it? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml BOFH excuse #319: Your computer hasn't been returning all the bits it gets from the Internet. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:49:58PM +0300, propcoder wrote: I do retrofitting or automate new machines. I do document them like most of my projects, but how to do it better way? There are a lot of things to document, like: project tasks, goals, requirements,.. physical (axes, forces, motors, screws, belts, reducers, backlashes,..) electronics (power, drivers, custom electronics with documentation and all datasheets, cabling, signals, computer,..) software (solutions used, tools needed) G-code (codes to be used) user manual... todo list known bugs, problems.. I've done a few machines. What I've found gives the most usefulness per work payoff is to draw in ladder notation, with a pencil, as I'm wiring stuff. Then when it all works, stick that in the pocket provided for this kind of documentation, which is usually inside the most-opened electrics cabinet. If it's a retrofit, sometimes you can start with the original wiring diagrams and just note changes on them. The pocket in my VMC has those notes, plus the VFD manual with its programmed settings written inside (these can be tedious to figure out), and that's about it. Anything that you can see by just looking at the machine is a waste of paper and effort to document. Why would you document what the motors are? Nobody will ever look at it. They're right there and they've got nameplates on them. The professional machine wiring guy I've worked with used a similar system except once it was done he'd copy it with a pen and give the owner this nice-looking version. It then went right in the pocket, of course. A photocopy or scan might be made, in case the paper gets nasty, but the one in the pocket is the one that gets used. -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Machine documentation: software, best practices
--- On Tue, 4/16/13, Clint Washburn cl...@clintandheidi.com wrote: currently I have been I the process of tracing all the wiring in my lathe. For the moment I have been inputing all wires and terminations into a spreadsheet via notebook/tablet as I go. I have been wondering, what software free or paid do people use to generate the wiring diagrams like the ones you would get with a new machine tool? Have a look at Dia http://sourceforge.net/projects/dia-installer/ -- Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use our toolset for easy data analysis visualization. Get a free account! http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
