Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Stuart Stevenson]

I use a process similar to Jon Elson's.
I use a lathe face plate and 3 adjustable supports.
With an indicator in the spindle I drive X and Y to dial the surface of the
face plate parallel to the XY plane.
I then go to the center of the face plate and sweep the face plate
adjusting A and B as necessary.


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 4:08 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 9 May 2018 at 00:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> > I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table
>
> Given that consistent thickness is absolutely requirement number one
> for a brake disc I just got a brand-new one.
> They are, after all, astonishingly cheap:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152577236800
>
> I then use a coaxial indicator, when I can be bothered. For a small
> diameter bit it makes very little difference. For the facing cutter it
> is rather more critical.
>
> My project number 42 is making a much shorter coaxial indicator with
> an integrated taper shank.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[andy pugh]

On 9 May 2018 at 00:57, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table

Given that consistent thickness is absolutely requirement number one
for a brake disc I just got a brand-new one.
They are, after all, astonishingly cheap:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152577236800

I then use a coaxial indicator, when I can be bothered. For a small
diameter bit it makes very little difference. For the facing cutter it
is rather more critical.

My project number 42 is making a much shorter coaxial indicator with
an integrated taper shank.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 09 May 2018 03:08:16 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 09 May 2018 00:34:47 Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 05/08/2018 10:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 08 May 2018 22:19:25 Jon Elson wrote:
> > >> On 05/08/2018 06:57 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >>> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill
> > >>> table and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the
> > >>> T-Slots.  For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It
> > >>> fits on my surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and
> > >>> maybe someday it will move up to project #42.
> > >>
> > >> I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and
> > >> then goes to the center of the arc.
> > >> So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end
> > >> mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
> > >> circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of
> > >> motion, not just the surface of the table.
> > >> And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle
> > >> shape there.  But, you can set the tram to
> > >> get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.
> > >>
> > >> Jon
> > >
> > > And that, Jon, is the best idea yet. I assume you can adjust the
> > > diameter so as to re-use the milled plate again for the next time?
> >
> > Yes, either change diameter or just cut the ring a little
> > deeper each time.
> >
> > Jon
>
> So for that, I'd need a plate 5.4719" wide in the y direction. (the
> cnc kit costs some range of motion in the Y from the advertised travel
> as I've added a bellows cover over the front of the base to keep swarf
> off the screw, and the fixed anchor for the bellows stops the table
> from coming forward)  Thats been a rather inconvenient limit, but it
> beats having a huge open hole in the top of the base for swarf to fall
> into and directly on the Y screw when its table is moved to the rear.
>
> I have some 1/2" 7075t6 panel yet from scrapping out a pair of Ampex
> VR-1200 2" vtr's. May have holes here and there already, but would be
> good for such as this. Or I could get a 6x6x1/2" piece from an online
> peddler. That would work but would need to be marked so the holddown
> clamps were applied the same way everytime. Twould be sorta stupid to
> assume its flat after they sheer off what I ordered. I'll look around
> and see whats available.
>
Whats available is nicely finished, cast of 5053. Can anyone give a URL 
to a description of that? Machinability etc.

> > 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 09 May 2018 00:34:47 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 05/08/2018 10:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 08 May 2018 22:19:25 Jon Elson wrote:
> >> On 05/08/2018 06:57 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill
> >>> table and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the
> >>> T-Slots.  For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It
> >>> fits on my surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and
> >>> maybe someday it will move up to project #42.
> >>
> >> I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and
> >> then goes to the center of the arc.
> >> So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end
> >> mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
> >> circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of
> >> motion, not just the surface of the table.
> >> And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle
> >> shape there.  But, you can set the tram to
> >> get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >
> > And that, Jon, is the best idea yet. I assume you can adjust the
> > diameter so as to re-use the milled plate again for the next time?
>
> Yes, either change diameter or just cut the ring a little
> deeper each time.
>
> Jon
>
So for that, I'd need a plate 5.4719" wide in the y direction. (the cnc 
kit costs some range of motion in the Y from the advertised travel as 
I've added a bellows cover over the front of the base to keep swarf off 
the screw, and the fixed anchor for the bellows stops the table from 
coming forward)  Thats been a rather inconvenient limit, but it beats 
having a huge open hole in the top of the base for swarf to fall into 
and directly on the Y screw when its table is moved to the rear.

I have some 1/2" 7075t6 panel yet from scrapping out a pair of Ampex 
VR-1200 2" vtr's. May have holes here and there already, but would be 
good for such as this. Or I could get a 6x6x1/2" piece from an online 
peddler. That would work but would need to be marked so the holddown 
clamps were applied the same way everytime. Twould be sorta stupid to 
assume its flat after they sheer off what I ordered. I'll look around 
and see whats available.
> --
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> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I'd expect most to get it trammed, tighten the bolts extra, and leave it alone. 
Some companies doing Bridgeport or clone CNC builds made rigid rams without any 
ability for the head to tilt or nod. A few went so far as to make even the head 
custom, without any capability of having manual operation, sometimes as part of 
the ram casting.

A simplified Bridgeport compatible head casting, without all the holes etc for 
the manual operating parts, and the lumps and bumps that go with them, would be 
a nice thing. Should cost less too, due to the simpler casting and much less 
amount of machining. All it'd need is the back face for mounting to the 
knuckle, the bore for the quill, the top for the drive to mount, and a slot for 
whatever the machine builder wants to use to drive the quill up and down. 
Putting that on one side, with cast in mounting bosses for the quill drive, 
would be a slicker setup than what's always done stuck on the front.

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018, 5:23:25 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 Most of the Knee type mills have heads that can pivot up to 45 degrees left 
and right.  Bridgeports can also pitch forward and back.  For those who have 
done a CNC conversion on these machines, are those features every used anymore? 
 Or is the head trammed in as close as possible and then left there forever?  
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Jon Elson]

On 05/08/2018 10:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 08 May 2018 22:19:25 Jon Elson wrote:


On 05/08/2018 06:57 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill
table and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the
T-Slots.  For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It
fits on my surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and maybe
someday it will move up to project #42.

I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and
then goes to the center of the arc.
So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end
mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of
motion, not just the surface of the table.
And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle
shape there.  But, you can set the tram to
get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.

Jon


And that, Jon, is the best idea yet. I assume you can adjust the diameter
so as to re-use the milled plate again for the next time?
Yes, either change diameter or just cut the ring a little 
deeper each time.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[John Dammeyer]

> >
> I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and
> then goes to the center of the arc.
> So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end
> mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
> circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of
> motion, not just the surface of the table.
> And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle
> shape there.  But, you can set the tram to
> get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.
> 
> Jon

Cool idea.
John Dammeyer


> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 08 May 2018 22:19:25 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 05/08/2018 06:57 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill
> > table and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the
> > T-Slots.  For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It
> > fits on my surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and maybe
> > someday it will move up to project #42.
>
> I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and
> then goes to the center of the arc.
> So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end
> mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
> circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of
> motion, not just the surface of the table.
> And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle
> shape there.  But, you can set the tram to
> get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.
>
> Jon
>
And that, Jon, is the best idea yet. I assume you can adjust the diameter 
so as to re-use the milled plate again for the next time?
What I've been doing is to chuck a piece of A2 rod, mag place an 
indicator rigging to the table so as to touch rods bottom in the x 
direction, then fiddle with the collet until its running reasonably 
true, then move it up to the middle of the rods length, still touching 
it in the x direction. Then raise and lower the head while tapping it 
one way or the other until it moves with a minimum motion as its run up 
and down the post. Its at least usably aligned with the direction of 
motion...

This is far from perfect as its still off in the y direction, a fat 10 
thou an inch and quite likely in the x too because the post is bolted 
onto the base and would need more precise machining to square that up. 
This will not detect a post leaning in the x direction, only that the 
up-down motion is aligned along the spindles axis as it runs.

But its at least not drilling too eggshaped a hole because the motion is 
not aligned with the axis of the spindle. Cleaning that up is a somewhat 
lower number in the line than #42 though. At my age, I might not make it 
to #42.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Jon Elson]

On 05/08/2018 06:20 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Most of the Knee type mills have heads that can pivot up to 45 degrees left and 
right.  Bridgeports can also pitch forward and back.  For those who have done a 
CNC conversion on these machines, are those features every used anymore?  Or is 
the head trammed in as close as possible and then left there forever?

Yes, generally the latter!  Also, cutting things on an angle 
can often be done by holding the work in an angled fixture.  
I did one job on my Bridgeport many years ago where I tilted 
the head.  Have not had any need to do that since.  But, 
then, I usually do very simple 2.5 D work.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Jon Elson]

On 05/08/2018 06:57 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table and a
dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots.  For the work
I've done to date it's been adequate.  It fits on my surface plate so I
could scrape it even flatter and maybe someday it will move up to project
#42.


I have a program that generates a full circular arc, and 
then goes to the center of the arc.
So, I can mill a path around the circle, then swap the end 
mill for a dial test indicator, and sweep the
circle.  So, I can tram the head to the actual X-Y plane of 
motion, not just the surface of the table.
And, in fact, due to wear, I get a little bit of a saddle 
shape there.  But, you can set the tram to

get the best average of the X-X and Y-Y deviations.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill head travel

[Robert Ash]

  
On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:57:15 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table
> and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots. 
> For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It fits on my
> surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and maybe someday it
> will move up to project #42.
>
> John

>And thats the only correct answer, with credits to the Hitch-hikers guide 
>of course. ;-)

>Actually, that does sound like a decent solution to that problem. It 
>would certainly speed it up quite a bit.

>Now to find a disk and flatten it...

Robert Ash-So, would a new disc brake be ok or need finer finish?If it can be 
used as is..I have a new one that someone could get for a ship pickup order. I 
think I gave 4 bucks for it and bearing hub at Flea sale.Robert AshNDBGA
   
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[jeremy youngs]

> > I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table
> > and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots.
>

I did the same thing six years ago. Really want to make it easy get a
coaxial indicator and it takes about a minute.

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:57:15 John Dammeyer wrote:

> I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table
> and a dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots. 
> For the work I've done to date it's been adequate.  It fits on my
> surface plate so I could scrape it even flatter and maybe someday it
> will move up to project #42.
>
> John

And thats the only correct answer, with credits to the Hitch-hikers guide 
of course. ;-)

Actually, that does sound like a decent solution to that problem. It 
would certainly speed it up quite a bit.

Now to find a disk and flatten it...
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > Sent: May-08-18 4:44 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.
> >
> > On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:20:48 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Most of the Knee type mills have heads that can pivot up to 45
> > > degrees left and right.  Bridgeports can also pitch forward and
> > > back.  For those who have done a CNC conversion on these machines,
> > > are those features every used anymore?  Or is the head trammed in
> > > as close as possible and then left there forever?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> >
> > My G0704 head has been turned every way it can be. Quite a few
> > times, like horizontal rigid tapping. Re-tramming it is a PITA
> > though.
> >
> > > --
> > >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
> --
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>
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[John Dammeyer]

I had a brake disk surface ground so it can be laid on the mill table and a
dial indicator swept around without jamming into the T-Slots.  For the work
I've done to date it's been adequate.  It fits on my surface plate so I
could scrape it even flatter and maybe someday it will move up to project
#42.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: May-08-18 4:44 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.
> 
> On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:20:48 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Most of the Knee type mills have heads that can pivot up to 45 degrees
> > left and right.  Bridgeports can also pitch forward and back.  For
> > those who have done a CNC conversion on these machines, are those
> > features every used anymore?  Or is the head trammed in as close as
> > possible and then left there forever?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> My G0704 head has been turned every way it can be. Quite a few times,
> like horizontal rigid tapping. Re-tramming it is a PITA though.
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  I guess I won't mount any screens or stuff that would prevent it from 
tilting.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-08-18 4:47 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.
> 
> On 9 May 2018 at 00:20, John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:
> >  For those who have done a CNC conversion on these machines, are those
> features every used anymore?  Or is the head trammed in as close as
> possible and then left there forever?
> 
> Most work is done with the head vertical, but I have been grateful to
> be able to tilt it occasionally.
> 
> Here is one odd setup that I used in conjunction with a coordinated XZ
> move.
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6cFnXnSm4SDRsU8t7
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 08 May 2018 19:20:48 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Most of the Knee type mills have heads that can pivot up to 45 degrees
> left and right.  Bridgeports can also pitch forward and back.  For
> those who have done a CNC conversion on these machines, are those
> features every used anymore?  Or is the head trammed in as close as
> possible and then left there forever?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
My G0704 head has been turned every way it can be. Quite a few times, 
like horizontal rigid tapping. Re-tramming it is a PITA though.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mill Head Travel.

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 18:21 John Dammeyer  wrote:
 Or is the head trammed in as close as possible and then left there
forever?

I recommend tramming to as close as possible with spindle down, then
drilling and reaming for a shoulder bolt or other removable pin as a
pinched Bridgeport head will not maintain tram , especially with CNC loads.
My matson only tilts along the b axis and has a hole through the head
mounting that I am Keen to one day take advantage of and make a 4 axis with.

>
>
>
>
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