Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-25 Thread Ed Nisley
On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 18:04 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
 if I can insert those few lines of code after the M6 T# command. 

If you add:

[EMCIO]
TOOL_CHANGE_AT_G30 = 1

Then M6 will move to the G30 position, which you've cleverly set right
above the probe switch. Admittedly, you must then call the probe
subroutine, but a little sed-fu [grin] should do the trick if pcb2gcode
doesn't have an option buried in there to wrap some user code around the
tool change.

The sourceforge pcb2gcode page has a bullet item:

output can be adjusted for automated height probing, see
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82628

That discussion points to:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/pcb_milling/82628-cheap_simple_height-probing.html

Which seems to be a generalized planar-surface probe process that's
likely too complex. All you must do is insert a G38.2 probe-and-set
subroutine, because you've already solved the PCB flatness and alignment
problems. Some sed-fu should do the trick.

I vaguely recall reading that stuff while building my hand-hewn G-Code
routines. Mercifully, those didn't have the problem of integrating with
anything else in the known universe...

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-25 Thread gene heskett
On Wednesday, January 25, 2012 04:49:03 PM Ed Nisley did opine:

 On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 18:04 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
  if I can insert those few lines of code after the M6 T# command.
 
 If you add:
 
 [EMCIO]
 TOOL_CHANGE_AT_G30 = 1

That is I believe, a new one to me, thanks Ed.  I'm assuming that will 
alleviate the need to actually edit in the moves to the tool change 
position.  OTOH, pcb-gcode outputs those moves too, so a slight change in 
its recipe and I am down to adding the subroutine call after the M6 T#

 Then M6 will move to the G30 position, which you've cleverly set right
 above the probe switch. Admittedly, you must then call the probe
 subroutine, but a little sed-fu [grin] should do the trick if pcb2gcode
 doesn't have an option buried in there to wrap some user code around the
 tool change.

Which I now think can be a file to the call function, a single line to 
insert.  This is sounding more better all the time.
 
 The sourceforge pcb2gcode page has a bullet item:
 
 output can be adjusted for automated height probing, see
 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82628
 
 That discussion points to:
 
 http://www.cnczone.com/forums/pcb_milling/82628-cheap_simple_height-prob
 ing.html

I haven't looked yet, been out all day but I know it will be useful (Dr's 
office  2 or 4 craft stores, Dr says nose is ok, just not 100% healed 
yet), thank you for the pointers to a recipe.
 
 Which seems to be a generalized planar-surface probe process that's
 likely too complex. All you must do is insert a G38.2 probe-and-set
 subroutine, because you've already solved the PCB flatness and alignment
 problems. Some sed-fu should do the trick.
 
 I vaguely recall reading that stuff while building my hand-hewn G-Code
 routines. Mercifully, those didn't have the problem of integrating with
 anything else in the known universe...

VBG  a Chuckle :)  Where I have the problem of doing much of it from 
scratch,  first learning eagle (if it can ever be said one has truly 
learned it), then learning what little I know about pcb-gcode with the same 
comment.  The gcode being virtually the only thing in this whole sequence 
that I haven't had to learn completely from scratch although I have spent 
quite a bit of time looking for fixes I needed _this_ time.  Its been a fun 
ride even if i have hit a pothole or 3 that folks here have at least told 
me where to get the 'bag mix' to fix them, smoothing the ride.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-25 Thread andy pugh
On 25 January 2012 22:09, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 I am down to adding the subroutine call after the M6 T#

Even that is potentially optional:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html/remap/structure.html
(but probably not worth the trouble unless you are going to want to
_always_ probe tool-length.)


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-25 Thread Ed Nisley
On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 22:20 +, andy pugh wrote:
 Even that is potentially optional:

Oh, *wow*... Yet Another Way to confuse myself beyond recognition.

I must put the tool probe switch somewhere more-or-less fixed before I
start invoking that code, but I like what it can do!

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-25 Thread Chris Radek
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 07:11:35PM -0500, Ed Nisley wrote:
 On Wed, 2012-01-25 at 22:20 +, andy pugh wrote:
  Even that is potentially optional:
 
 Oh, *wow*... Yet Another Way to confuse myself beyond recognition.
 
 I must put the tool probe switch somewhere more-or-less fixed before I
 start invoking that code, but I like what it can do!
 

I'm using this remapping of T6 to include a probe on my little
tabletop mill, and it's awesome.


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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-24 Thread Ed Nisley
On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 00:12 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
 Its doing all moves on the .bot. files 
 in negative X from the reference point 

I'm pretty sure there's a checkbox along the way that reads Mirror X
axis to make that answer come out right without any further attention.

The Eagle gerbv274x CAM file has a mirror option that might do exactly
what you need. Probably applies only to the bottom layer, though.

[*fails to install pcb2gcode due to dependency hell*]

The pcb2gcode man page seems to imply (in --mirror-absolute) that
backside mirroring normally takes place at the middle of the board.

Perhaps you have one or more of:
- the Eagle origin at the wrong spot
- the backside Gerber file exported without mirroring
- the --mirror-absolute option set/unset

I'd expect some option twiddling would solve the problem without resort
to G-Code hackage. After all, you're not the first person to mill the
backside of a PCB with this tool chain!

And you really need an automatic tool height probe switch... really you
do!

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-24 Thread gene heskett
On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 05:55:14 PM Ed Nisley did opine:

 On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 00:12 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
  Its doing all moves on the .bot. files
  in negative X from the reference point
 
 I'm pretty sure there's a checkbox along the way that reads Mirror X
 axis to make that answer come out right without any further attention.
 
 The Eagle gerbv274x CAM file has a mirror option that might do exactly
 what you need. Probably applies only to the bottom layer, though.
 
 [*fails to install pcb2gcode due to dependency hell*]
 
 The pcb2gcode man page seems to imply (in --mirror-absolute) that
 backside mirroring normally takes place at the middle of the board.
 
 Perhaps you have one or more of:
   - the Eagle origin at the wrong spot

left front corner of the board, so all dimensions on the top side are 
positive.  Seemed sensible at the time. :)

   - the backside Gerber file exported without mirroring
   - the --mirror-absolute option set/unset
 
 I'd expect some option twiddling would solve the problem without resort
 to G-Code hackage. After all, you're not the first person to mill the
 backside of a PCB with this tool chain!

Obviously not, in this case I tried a G92 X2.195 before the first move, 
that put the holes where they belong, and of course a G92.1 to restore it 
at the bottom of the file before the M2.
 
 And you really need an automatic tool height probe switch... really you
 do!

How do you train pcb-gcode to use it?  I'll put a gage with a pcb contact 
on top of it on the table close to the board, and from the known height of 
the gage, I'll just pull the quill handle down till the light comes on.  
Should be close enough for my girls anyway.  To do it in gcode, I'll need 
to pull the driver box down and wire up the stuff I did have to hook up for 
the G38.2, which should work for that, if I can insert those few lines of 
code after the M6 T# command.  Good idea in fact.  I didn't do that when I 
built the new driver box.


Cheers, Gene
-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread Jon Elson
gene heskett wrote:
 On Sunday, January 22, 2012 09:01:21 PM Jon Elson did opine:

   


 I just tried these two additions to my .ini file, then restarted emc while 
 the machine was within about a thou of zero on all axises.  But on the 
 restart, the home flag wasn't set where it was restarted, and a click on 
 the 'home all' button then zeroed the display in addition to setting the 
 home * on in the selected sequence.  This then throws my machine off by 
 however much it is from zero, and this is not at all nice, forcing me to 
 repeat the homing by electrical contact detection that I am currently using 
 as I get setup to 'etch' a couple pcb's.  That takes 5 to 10 minutes of 
 creeping along at .015/minute feed rates for all 3 axises to arrive at 
 where it was when I shut it down.

 It would be nice if there was a setting that would cause it to set the home 
 stars, _without_ zeroing the counters, accepting that it is 'homed' 
 wherever it is at.
   
Well, if you want to home just ONE axis, don't do home all.  I do not 
use the home all
function, it lets me watch to avoid any collisions when homing.

I don't know why your homing is so slow, I do the initial search at 
something like 45 IPM.


Home is defined as a specific place, so machine limits can be known.  
(Not so important
on a rotary axis.)  The workpiece coordinates are some offset from 
that.  If you move
the home position, then the workpiece coords move, too.  It sounds more 
like you
want to set workpiece coords rather than homing.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread gene heskett
On Monday, January 23, 2012 02:22:35 PM Jon Elson did opine:

 gene heskett wrote:
  On Sunday, January 22, 2012 09:01:21 PM Jon Elson did opine:
  
  
  
  
  I just tried these two additions to my .ini file, then restarted emc
  while the machine was within about a thou of zero on all axises.  But
  on the restart, the home flag wasn't set where it was restarted, and
  a click on the 'home all' button then zeroed the display in addition
  to setting the home * on in the selected sequence.  This then throws
  my machine off by however much it is from zero, and this is not at
  all nice, forcing me to repeat the homing by electrical contact
  detection that I am currently using as I get setup to 'etch' a couple
  pcb's.  That takes 5 to 10 minutes of creeping along at .015/minute
  feed rates for all 3 axises to arrive at where it was when I shut it
  down.
  
  It would be nice if there was a setting that would cause it to set the
  home stars, _without_ zeroing the counters, accepting that it is
  'homed' wherever it is at.
 
 Well, if you want to home just ONE axis, don't do home all.  I do not
 use the home all
 function, it lets me watch to avoid any collisions when homing.
 
 I don't know why your homing is so slow, I do the initial search at
 something like 45 IPM.
 
 
 Home is defined as a specific place, so machine limits can be known.
 (Not so important
 on a rotary axis.)  The workpiece coordinates are some offset from
 that.  If you move
 the home position, then the workpiece coords move, too.  It sounds more
 like you
 want to set workpiece coords rather than homing.
 
 Jon

No Jon, I want to be able to power down and restart everything without 
destroying an already known and set home position.  I can't do that without 
laboriously spending maybe 2:30 per axis driving it by hand from the 
keyboard, to the 0. position in order to be able to set the homed 
flag of that axis without mucking with the established position because 
clicking on the home axis button destroys the home position.  So I am 
forced to drive the machine to 0. on each axis and then click home.

What I want to do is, assuming I stop emc with the machine sitting at 
x+3.9981, y+2.1473, z6.7500, a0., restart emc, which will then show 
those values in the display thanks to POSITION.txt, then be able to click 
the Home All button and see the homed flags come on so I can load and run 
code, without destroying that pretty well known 'home' position by zeroing 
all the counters and putting home where its sitting many inches from the 
home already established, I want it to accept that it has been 'homed' 
where ever its at in the display without screwing with the already known 
and set position.

The only errors I would have left would be due largely from backlash, and 
the present POSITION.txt file not recording which side of the backlash 
clearance it was sitting against when emc was shut down, and the possible 
.0001 movement of the drivers powering back up at 00 in their microstep 
cycle.  For what I am doing, .0001 is way better than I need in the real 
world, a thou would generally be fine.

Workpiece coords I don't generally mess with, its the refusal of emc to run 
any code, or MDI functions _until_ I have destroyed the machines known 
position by destroying that known position as the homed flags are set.

Home nor limit switches I have never installed as this machine doesn't 
really have room for them to be installed such that a few thou over travel 
would not smash them.

Thanks  Cheers Jon, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread Ed Nisley
On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 14:56 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
 by destroying that known position as the homed flags are set. 

Although I *do* have home switches on the Sherline, I also inserted 

[TRAJ]
NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1

So it doesn't enforce the must-home-before-moving rule.

Axis then starts up wherever it shut down, with the previous position in
place, and runs just fine. It doesn't display the homed crosshairs,
but that really doesn't matter.

Ought to work for you...

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2012/1/23 Ed Nisley ed.08.nis...@pobox.com:

 [TRAJ]
 NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1

 Axis then starts up wherever it shut down, with the previous position in
 place, and runs just fine.

So are You telling that this line also tells Axis to remember joint
positions on shutdown or do You have something additional for that?

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread Ed Nisley
On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 22:34 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 also tells Axis to remember joint positions on shutdown 

It's a simpleminded XYZA Sherline mill that wouldn't know what to do
with a joint if it saw one...

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread gene heskett
On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:02:02 AM Ed Nisley did opine:

 On Mon, 2012-01-23 at 14:56 -0500, gene heskett wrote:
  by destroying that known position as the homed flags are set.
 
 Although I *do* have home switches on the Sherline, I also inserted
 
 [TRAJ]
 NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
 
 So it doesn't enforce the must-home-before-moving rule.
 
 Axis then starts up wherever it shut down, with the previous position in
 place, and runs just fine. It doesn't display the homed crosshairs,
 but that really doesn't matter.
 
 Ought to work for you...

As usual Ed, you are a lifesaver.  Thank you very much.

Now I am down to two problems with this teeny little pcb, one with the 
machine at tool change time that I have a gage under construction to 
alleviate that particular headache, and the I need a line or 2 of sed code 
to extract all the X values from the generated code for the bottoms of the 
pcb's and add 2.195, the length of the board to that X value in the file, 
thereby offsetting the cutter back to where it cut the top side.  Its doing 
all moves on the .bot. files in negative X from the reference point so I 
have to effectively move the reference point from the left front corner of 
the board, to the right front corner by sliding all X values 2.195 to the 
right, which is the length of the board.

Study sed pages for a while I think unless someone has a quick and not too 
dirty quicky posted someplace. 

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-23 Thread gene heskett
On Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:17:44 AM Viesturs Lācis did opine:

 2012/1/23 Ed Nisley ed.08.nis...@pobox.com:
  [TRAJ]
  NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
  
  Axis then starts up wherever it shut down, with the previous position
  in place, and runs just fine.
 
 So are You telling that this line also tells Axis to remember joint
 positions on shutdown or do You have something additional for that?
 
 Viesturs
 
No, that is this line, also in the [TRAJ] section:

POSITION_FILE = position.txt

That does the 'remembering'.

The file format is internal to extreme precision, but I suspect that it 
doesn't account for which side of the backlash the machine is currently 
sitting at when you shut down emc.  A simple + or - based on the last 
direction it moved, appended or comma separated from that axis's position 
and something in the position recovery code could process the + or - and 
then do a decent job of recovering a machine with say 5 thou of backlash 
comp in its setup, doing it to a less than a thou loss in accuracy.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 January 2012 03:51, John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca wrote:

 Does it actually have a homing switch or not?

 I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not to 
 home.  Am I correct in that assumption?

Yes, but that leaves the axis unhomed, whereas you want it to home
without moving.
As Jon has said, you need to have a positive value for the homing
sequence number and a zero HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_homing.html

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-22 Thread John Stewart
Andy, Jon;


 
 I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not to 
 home.  Am I correct in that assumption?
 
 Yes, but that leaves the axis unhomed, whereas you want it to home
 without moving.
 As Jon has said, you need to have a positive value for the homing
 sequence number and a zero HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_homing.html


Thank you for pointing me in the correct direction - yes, setting both the 
HOME_SEQUENCE number to a positive number, and the HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY to 0.0 
worked - I can now home my XYZ machine and can now get the Sherline rotary 
table connected.

This list is great. ;-)


John A. Stewart.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-22 Thread gene heskett
On Sunday, January 22, 2012 12:03:07 PM andy pugh did opine:

 On 22 January 2012 03:51, John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca wrote:
  Does it actually have a homing switch or not?
  
  I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not
  to home.  Am I correct in that assumption?
 
 Yes, but that leaves the axis unhomed, whereas you want it to home
 without moving.
 As Jon has said, you need to have a positive value for the homing
 sequence number and a zero HOME_SEARCH_VELOCITY
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config_ini_homing.html

I would like to if possible have it restart in the already homed state at 
the POSITION.txt location, so what should I put in the individual axis 
sections to accomplish this?

And an additional accuracy enhancer would be a 2nd field added to each 
axis's entry in the POSITION.txt file to tell linuxcnc which side of the 
backlash setting the motor was up against when that file was saved at 
shutdown.  That would be the final link to be able to continue an 
interrupted job without the hassle of re-homing the whole machine.  For 
that, a simple + or - after the value should suffice for that.

Hint, hint :)  That would scratch a very persistent itch for me.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
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To purr feline.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-22 Thread gene heskett
On Sunday, January 22, 2012 09:01:21 PM Jon Elson did opine:

 John Stewart wrote:
  Hi Andy;
  
  Does it actually have a homing switch or not?
  
  No, no homing switch.
  
  I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not
  to home.  Am I correct in that assumption?  Or, is there commands in
  there that say don't home but you should be homed in there?
 
 If HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0.0 in the [AXIS_n] section of the .ini
 file, then there will be no homing move, and wherever the
 machine is will be accepted as the home position.
 
 Jon

I just tried these two additions to my .ini file, then restarted emc while 
the machine was within about a thou of zero on all axises.  But on the 
restart, the home flag wasn't set where it was restarted, and a click on 
the 'home all' button then zeroed the display in addition to setting the 
home * on in the selected sequence.  This then throws my machine off by 
however much it is from zero, and this is not at all nice, forcing me to 
repeat the homing by electrical contact detection that I am currently using 
as I get setup to 'etch' a couple pcb's.  That takes 5 to 10 minutes of 
creeping along at .015/minute feed rates for all 3 axises to arrive at 
where it was when I shut it down.

It would be nice if there was a setting that would cause it to set the home 
stars, _without_ zeroing the counters, accepting that it is 'homed' 
wherever it is at.

Is this even possible Jon?

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
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My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-21 Thread andy pugh
On 22 January 2012 01:27, John A. Stewart astew...@crc.ca wrote:

 Here is my hand-edited ini file - any silly/obvious mistakes here?

Does it actually have a homing switch or not?

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The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong.

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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-21 Thread John Stewart
Hi Andy;

 
 Does it actually have a homing switch or not?

No, no homing switch.

I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not to home. 
 Am I correct in that assumption?  Or, is there commands in there that say 
don't home but you should be homed in there?

Cross fingers I'll have the Sherline stepper motor re-wired tomorrow, so I'll 
have the opportunity to actually test any suggestions.

The Sherline table has only a stepper motor; no other switches. I'm not too 
concerned with the VELOCITY and associated parameters right now; that can wait 
until I get it wired. (dog sitting and wife working this weekend; wish me luck 
in getting workshop time!) 


Thank you;


John A. Stewart.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary homing.

2012-01-21 Thread Jon Elson
John Stewart wrote:
 Hi Andy;

   
 Does it actually have a homing switch or not?
 

 No, no homing switch.

 I read somewhere that the HOME_SEQUENCE=-1 told LinuxCNC (smile) not to 
 home.  Am I correct in that assumption?  Or, is there commands in there that 
 say don't home but you should be homed in there?

   
If HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 0.0 in the [AXIS_n] section of the .ini
file, then there will be no homing move, and wherever the
machine is will be accepted as the home position.

Jon

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