Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 2/19/2010 11:17 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: Dave wrote: Do you think you will have any issues with the ultrasonic sensor and the water mist from the waterjet? I was to work on a waterjet system next week but the project has been delayed. That machine has a constant mist/cloud of water vapor around it. Yeah, I was wondering about that. When piercing the initial hole in stock, the jet can bounce back with immense force, and it is loaded with Garnet dust. Unless there is a shield that can be flipped in place during piercing, I would suspect the sensor would have to be tremendously robust or it will have a very short life. Jon I do not see that vapor is problem - there was some freaky height sensor previously installed near the nozzle - all the plugs and connections of wires have to be sealed and that's basically all. splashes, especially during piercing, are far more bigger concern, that's where i agree. splashes are the thing, where i have not found a solution yet. i have an idea that i could make a shield from a material that is transparent for that particular wavelength of ultrasound, but i will have to check that in more detail, if that is possible. changing the shield with few cm in diameter from time to time, if it gets damaged, does not seem like a big cost issue. another idea is to put the sensor in a shell, which closes during piercing - that would involve some additional commands in G-code - i mean M100 - M199 user-definable commands, where that particular command would activate a magnet for few seconds through some relay and magnet would close a cover of the shell of the sensor. anyway, the working principle for THC for plasma, and for waterjet and also laser as well is the same, as both of these technologies are cutting material with some kind of beam and it is supposed to hold the torch/nozzle in some specific height few mm above the surface of material thank You, guys for Your suggestions on PLC and Classic Ladder. You have helped me a lot, because now i have a direction, where to look for a solution, i really appreciate that! Viesturs -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Depends on how much data you are moving, what the Modbus baudrate is, and how fast the PLC responds. Using Modbus at 19.2K baud reading and writing 5 words to a Automation Direct 405 class PLC via Classic ladder, I can do a complete read cycle about every 75 ms I believe. That is about 13 updates per second. I don't know how fast you are cutting but that might be plenty fast to create a correction. The other thing to consider is how fast does your ultrasonic sensor update? Plasma cutters on thin sheets need to really move but if you are cutting heavy material you might not be going very fast. If you are cutting at 10 ipm then you have plenty of time for correction etc. Dave -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
Dave wrote: Do you think you will have any issues with the ultrasonic sensor and the water mist from the waterjet? I was to work on a waterjet system next week but the project has been delayed. That machine has a constant mist/cloud of water vapor around it. Yeah, I was wondering about that. When piercing the initial hole in stock, the jet can bounce back with immense force, and it is loaded with Garnet dust. Unless there is a shield that can be flipped in place during piercing, I would suspect the sensor would have to be tremendously robust or it will have a very short life. Jon I do not see that vapor is problem - there was some freaky height sensor previously installed near the nozzle - all the plugs and connections of wires have to be sealed and that's basically all. splashes, especially during piercing, are far more bigger concern, that's where i agree. splashes are the thing, where i have not found a solution yet. i have an idea that i could make a shield from a material that is transparent for that particular wavelength of ultrasound, but i will have to check that in more detail, if that is possible. changing the shield with few cm in diameter from time to time, if it gets damaged, does not seem like a big cost issue. another idea is to put the sensor in a shell, which closes during piercing - that would involve some additional commands in G-code - i mean M100 - M199 user-definable commands, where that particular command would activate a magnet for few seconds through some relay and magnet would close a cover of the shell of the sensor. anyway, the working principle for THC for plasma, and for waterjet and also laser as well is the same, as both of these technologies are cutting material with some kind of beam and it is supposed to hold the torch/nozzle in some specific height few mm above the surface of material thank You, guys for Your suggestions on PLC and Classic Ladder. You have helped me a lot, because now i have a direction, where to look for a solution, i really appreciate that! Viesturs -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
hello! EMC only really understands digital signals, that is the problem. The sensors you show have analogue outputs. There are a number of ways to get analogue signals into EMC, but they all involve some form of signal conversion. The simplest is probably a voltage-frequency convertor IC wired to one of your digital IO pins and an Encoder in HAL set to Counter Mode. The encoder.velocity then represents the value of your analogue voltage. Alternatively you could use a PWM generator of some form. Another approach that I have not seen used yet would be to cannibalise a USB gamepad and wire your sensor in the place of one of the analgue joystick potentiometers. There is a lot of good info on the linuxcnc.org wiki on interfacing gamepads with EMC2 Andy There are also some ready made industrial analog to frequency converters on the market that clip onto a 35mm din rail and they are in the $100-$200 range. Dave Andy, thanks for suggestions! ok, i understand that i need to convert sensor's output of 0-10V to digital signal. and i would prefer solution with lowest cost possible. is Pixsys DRR 245 controller suitable for this purpose? thanks! Viesturs -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 18 February 2010 08:15, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: ok, i understand that i need to convert sensor's output of 0-10V to digital signal. and i would prefer solution with lowest cost possible. is Pixsys DRR 245 controller suitable for this purpose? Not as far as I can see looking at the web page. It appears to be a controller more than a signal converter. The outputs are described as 0-10V or 4-20mA , which is what your distance sensor already outputs. You don't need an external controller, EMC will do all of that stuff. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProductR=5333074 Should do all that is required, and is inexpensive. A simple circuit on a piece of stripboard would be all that was needed. -- atp -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 2/18/2010 3:15 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: hello! EMC only really understands digital signals, that is the problem. The sensors you show have analogue outputs. There are a number of ways to get analogue signals into EMC, but they all involve some form of signal conversion. The simplest is probably a voltage-frequency convertor IC wired to one of your digital IO pins and an Encoder in HAL set to Counter Mode. The encoder.velocity then represents the value of your analogue voltage. Alternatively you could use a PWM generator of some form. Another approach that I have not seen used yet would be to cannibalise a USB gamepad and wire your sensor in the place of one of the analgue joystick potentiometers. There is a lot of good info on the linuxcnc.org wiki on interfacing gamepads with EMC2 Andy There are also some ready made industrial analog to frequency converters on the market that clip onto a 35mm din rail and they are in the $100-$200 range. Dave Andy, thanks for suggestions! ok, i understand that i need to convert sensor's output of 0-10V to digital signal. and i would prefer solution with lowest cost possible. is Pixsys DRR 245 controller suitable for this purpose? thanks! Viesturs -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Another way to do it is to use a cheap PLC like the Automation Direct Click PLC that has onboard analog and connect to it via Modbus and get the values that way. Sure the PLC is smart but who cares as it is dirt cheap. Better to have too much intelligence than not enough.. ;-) Dave -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 18 February 2010 14:22, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: Another way to do it is to use a cheap PLC like the Automation Direct Click PLC that has onboard analog and connect to it via Modbus The controller that he already has is Modbus, but I am not sure how well that integrates with Realtime/HAL Googling shows that Classic Ladder speaks Modbus, so I might want to retract my previous statement about the usefulness of the Pixsys controller. It seems like it might be possible to connect that to EMC with Modbus and Classic Ladder. I am not sure what is involved in getting RS485 communications configured at the PC end. There are USB-RS485 converters available (http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acatalog/Serial_Interface.html for example) and also RS232-RS485 adapters even more cheaply. -- atp -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 09:22 -0500, Dave wrote: ... snip Another way to do it is to use a cheap PLC like the Automation Direct Click PLC that has onboard analog and connect to it via Modbus and get the values that way. Sure the PLC is smart but who cares as it is dirt cheap. Better to have too much intelligence than not enough.. ;-) Dave Modbus or any connection other than digital bits won't be in real-time. Is this an issue with THC? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
Kirk Wallace ha scritto: On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 09:22 -0500, Dave wrote: ... snip Another way to do it is to use a cheap PLC like the Automation Direct Click PLC that has onboard analog and connect to it via Modbus and get the values that way. Sure the PLC is smart but who cares as it is dirt cheap. Better to have too much intelligence than not enough.. ;-) Dave Modbus or any connection other than digital bits won't be in real-time. Is this an issue with THC? +1 to the modbus+PLC solution If you use a serial port, the rtai serial driver and an rs232-rs422 converter, you end up with a real-time modbus communication Marco Paolini -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 17:10 +0100, Marco Paolini wrote: ... snip +1 to the modbus+PLC solution If you use a serial port, the rtai serial driver and an rs232-rs422 converter, you end up with a real-time modbus communication Marco Paolini Does EMC2 use the RTAI serial driver? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
Kirk Wallace ha scritto: On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 17:10 +0100, Marco Paolini wrote: ... snip +1 to the modbus+PLC solution If you use a serial port, the rtai serial driver and an rs232-rs422 converter, you end up with a real-time modbus communication Marco Paolini Does EMC2 use the RTAI serial driver? you need to modprobe rtai_serial then write a hal module modbus.c: #include rtai_serial.h #include hal.h ... // use rt_spopen(), rt_spwrite, rt_spread and friends you'll need to implement the modbus protocol in your modbus.c module and expose some hal pins for the emc Z axis logic it is not hard to do but remember: once you're done please post it (the modbus driver) to this list ;) -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 17 February 2010 19:38, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: i have searched for more information on THC implementation and what confuses me is that it seems like i would need some additional hardware EMC only really understands digital signals, that is the problem. The sensors you show have analogue outputs. There are a number of ways to get analogue signals into EMC, but they all involve some form of signal conversion. The simplest is probably a voltage-frequency convertor IC wired to one of your digital IO pins and an Encoder in HAL set to Counter Mode. The encoder.velocity then represents the value of your analogue voltage. Alternatively you could use a PWM generator of some form. Another approach that I have not seen used yet would be to cannibalise a USB gamepad and wire your sensor in the place of one of the analgue joystick potentiometers. There is a lot of good info on the linuxcnc.org wiki on interfacing gamepads with EMC2 -- atp -- SOLARIS 10 is the OS for Data Centers - provides features such as DTrace, Predictive Self Healing and Award Winning ZFS. Get Solaris 10 NOW http://p.sf.net/sfu/solaris-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
New on 2.4 is a THC comp designed to work with the Mesa THCAD High Isolation A-D Card. This card takes a 0-10v input and converts it to a pulse that is read by the 5i20 encoder input. The velocity output goes into my THC comp and controls the Z axis with offsets to maintain the desired input. After the cut when the Z clearance move is in progress any offsets are removed as the Z axis moves up. John On 2/17/2010 1:38 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: hello! i have recently started getting familiar with EMC2 - it is wonderful software, developers have my thanks and all the respect :)) i have been following this mailing list for few weeks and due to my limited knowledge in CNC and computer literacy/programming now it is time for me to ask a question. i am implementing waterjet cutting machine upgrade from 2 axis to 5 axis and subsequently - DOS-based controlling system to EMC2. part of this implementation is Tool [torch] Height Control - i have ultrasonic sensor that i would like to use for nozzle height control. Datasheet of the sensor is here: http://info.bannersalesforce.com/xpedio/groups/public/documents/literature/110738.pdf i have searched for more information on THC implementation and what confuses me is that it seems like i would need some additional hardware as described here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control the question is - is there a way to set THC in a way that EMC2 acquires data directly from sensor and adjusts Z axis height as required (at least at the beginning of executing file for 5 axis code and preferrably floating Z axis for 2 axis code. creating 2 separate machine profiles - 2 axis and 5 axis - is acceptable)? without additional boards and hardware as i do not understand, what is their purpose. i have a Pixsys DRR 245 controller available - if that can help EMC2 in understanding sensor's outputs or transform the signal in some way... short description about this controller: http://www.instrumart.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=22402 thanks in advance, if anyone can share advice! Viesturs -- SOLARIS 10 is the OS for Data Centers - provides features such as DTrace, Predictive Self Healing and Award Winning ZFS. Get Solaris 10 NOW http://p.sf.net/sfu/solaris-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
On 2/17/2010 4:01 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 17 February 2010 19:38, Viesturs Lācisviesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: i have searched for more information on THC implementation and what confuses me is that it seems like i would need some additional hardware EMC only really understands digital signals, that is the problem. The sensors you show have analogue outputs. There are a number of ways to get analogue signals into EMC, but they all involve some form of signal conversion. The simplest is probably a voltage-frequency convertor IC wired to one of your digital IO pins and an Encoder in HAL set to Counter Mode. The encoder.velocity then represents the value of your analogue voltage. Alternatively you could use a PWM generator of some form. Another approach that I have not seen used yet would be to cannibalise a USB gamepad and wire your sensor in the place of one of the analgue joystick potentiometers. There is a lot of good info on the linuxcnc.org wiki on interfacing gamepads with EMC2 There are also some ready made industrial analog to frequency converters on the market that clip onto a 35mm din rail and they are in the $100-$200 range. Dave -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
part of this implementation is Tool [torch] Height Control - i have ultrasonic sensor that i would like to use for nozzle height control. Datasheet of the sensor is here: http://info.bannersalesforce.com/xpedio/groups/public/documents/literature/110738.pdf i have searched for more information on THC implementation and what confuses me is that it seems like i would need some additional hardware as described here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control the question is - is there a way to set THC in a way that EMC2 acquires data directly from sensor and adjusts Z axis height as required (at least at the beginning of executing file for 5 axis code and preferrably floating Z axis for 2 axis code. creating 2 separate machine profiles - 2 axis and 5 axis - is acceptable)? without additional boards and hardware as i do not understand, what is their purpose. If you dig into the Hal portion of EMC2 and also dig into the ladder logic you will see that there is a lot that can be done to drive the torch height control. I have done a program in a PLC to control torch height by taking in a position via an analog input and driving a stepper motor either up or down to maintain a distance as the torch traveled. I believe that EMC2 has everything required. The stepgen stepper output generator, the ability to get the analog voltage in via a analog to freq converter, and the logic required to drive the stepgen - stepper control block. On top of that there is ladder logic available if the logic can't be easily implemented in Hal. I've not tried the new THC control but that was really setup for plasma use and I don't know how that would work for you with a waterjet. Do you think you will have any issues with the ultrasonic sensor and the water mist from the waterjet? I was to work on a waterjet system next week but the project has been delayed. That machine has a constant mist/cloud of water vapor around it. Dave -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] THC - torch height control
Dave wrote: Do you think you will have any issues with the ultrasonic sensor and the water mist from the waterjet? I was to work on a waterjet system next week but the project has been delayed. That machine has a constant mist/cloud of water vapor around it. Yeah, I was wondering about that. When piercing the initial hole in stock, the jet can bounce back with immense force, and it is loaded with Garnet dust. Unless there is a shield that can be flipped in place during piercing, I would suspect the sensor would have to be tremendously robust or it will have a very short life. Jon -- Download Intelreg; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
