Re: [Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

[Jeff Epler]

You'd have to build your linuxcnc against the correct kernel.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

[Todd Zuercher]

I can/am.  Just exploring "update" possibilities for installed machines running 
old hardware.
I haven't even tried one of the new Wheezy images yet on the old hardware, to 
even see if it does or doesn't work.  Just looking at options for when the day 
comes that I may need to do something.  I just saw the below kernal image, and 
wanted to take it for a test spin on a VM.

- Original Message -
From: "John Thornton" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 11:45:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

Why not just use Ubuntu 10.04?

JT

On 3/31/2016 8:58 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I was rummaging around with synaptic, and noticed that the Linuxcnc Wheezy 
> Repository has a linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-486 kernel and headers. I tried to 
> install it to see how/if it might work. It booted ok but when I tried to run 
> Linuxcnc it said that I must use the 686-pae kernal. The whole point of my 
> experiment was to try not to use the 686-pae for some old uni-processor 
> machines. What else am I missing? Is this even possible to make work? If the 
> non pae kernel is useless why is it even in the repo?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[dannym]

But wouldn't that break the ability to home the gantry's sides independently? 

That's a huge problem.  The gantry isn't going to align itself.  

A relevant point of the context here is this is going into a community shop, 
with a constant stream of new users with very limited supervision.  So "power 
down these axes and mechanically align them" doesn't sound like a viable 
option.  In the past I've had the stops aligned and ran the gantry into the 
stops until both sides' steppers stalled... gently.  

But that sort of hackery won't really fly here.  People would just be jamming 
it at high speeds and damaging the drives or at least keep screwing up their 
zero.

Danny


 andy pugh  wrote: 
> On 31 March 2016 at 16:34,   wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but what does "branch" mean here?  I have LinuxCNC 2.7.4 
> with Preempt-RT kernel support.  Would this mean going with something other 
> than that?

Yes, it would mean going with a development version of LinuxCNC rather
than a released version.

For aesthetic reasons I have been running JA versions on my machines
for years (none of my machines require it). However for "normal users"
it is maybe a step too far.

This is why I was suggesting that you try running a trivkins config
and use the "gantry" HAL component to link the joints.

There is a sample HAL file here:
https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/linuxcnc/blob/0e0418b362f45d7ad332fa3f211cbf8c2f24efd9/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/Probotix/Comet.hal

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[dannym]

Pardon my ignorance, but what does "branch" mean here?  I have LinuxCNC 2.7.4 
with Preempt-RT kernel support.  Would this mean going with something other 
than that?  That's a nonstarter.

Danny

 Dewey Garrett  wrote: 
> As mentioned, you might want to try the joints_axes12 branch.
> (See below for example xyzx sim configurations in joints_axes12.)
> 
> All recent mainline branches (e.g., 2.6.x, 2.7.x, master) support
> JOG_CONT and JOG_INCR modes as used by 1) the axis gui for keyboard
> jogging and 2) halui pins with names: halui.jog-speed, halui.jog.N.*
> 
> The mainline branches do _not_ support wheel (mpg) based jogging in
> teleop (world) mode.  Only recent joints_axesNN (NN >=9) branches
> support wheel based jogging in teleop (world) mode.
> 
> Also note:
> 1) In recent joints_axesNN branches, some halui hal pin names have been
>renamed and pins have been added to distinguish joints/axes and joint/world
>modes of jogging.  See the joints_axesNN docs, for example section 4.2
>in:
> 
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/doc/scratch/v2.8.0~pre1-ja~joints-axes12~44c2e6d/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
> 
> 2) The LinuxCNC distribution includes a script (LIB:xhc-hb04.tcl) to
>aid in configuring an xhc-hb04 pendant and provides example sim
>configs located in:
> 
>configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04
> 
> 3) In the joints_axes12 branch, the LIB:xhc-hb04.tcl script is
>'joints_axes aware' and will connect the proper wheel jogging pins
>for _both_ joint and telop jogging for known kinematics, namely
>trivkins and gentrivkins.
> 
> 4) A gantry config like xyzx is more complicated than simple
>gentrivkins configs because two joints control the x axis coordinate.
>I have added a set of configs to illustrate xyzx configs with simulated
>wheel jogging and with an xhc-hb04 18button pendant.
> 
>
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=73829e047a2074a0da10a7cdb0cb2c3284ee92d0
> 
>The configs, located at configs/sim/axis/ja_tests/xyzx_mpg are simplified
>in order to focus on config items that affect joint/world jogging 
> functionality:
>  a) position commands are connected directly to feedback
>  b) immediate homing is used (no home switch logic is included)
>  c) machine position limits are set to large numbers
> 
> The configs and a README can be examined at:
> 
> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/ja_tests/xyzx_mpg;h=0f6bcb48131beca706ce51ca237173af3ff5a1ab;hb=73829e047a2074a0da10a7cdb0cb2c3284ee92d0
> 
> 
> 5) To use the joints_axes12 branch, you can make a RIP build from source
>or use a 'scratch' deb from the buildbot.  Instructions for buildbot
>are at :
> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
> -- 
> Dewey Garrett
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

[John Thornton]

Why not just use Ubuntu 10.04?

JT

On 3/31/2016 8:58 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I was rummaging around with synaptic, and noticed that the Linuxcnc Wheezy 
> Repository has a linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-486 kernel and headers. I tried to 
> install it to see how/if it might work. It booted ok but when I tried to run 
> Linuxcnc it said that I must use the 686-pae kernal. The whole point of my 
> experiment was to try not to use the 686-pae for some old uni-processor 
> machines. What else am I missing? Is this even possible to make work? If the 
> non pae kernel is useless why is it even in the repo?
>


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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 31 March 2016 at 16:34,   wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but what does "branch" mean here?  I have LinuxCNC 2.7.4 
> with Preempt-RT kernel support.  Would this mean going with something other 
> than that?

Yes, it would mean going with a development version of LinuxCNC rather
than a released version.

For aesthetic reasons I have been running JA versions on my machines
for years (none of my machines require it). However for "normal users"
it is maybe a step too far.

This is why I was suggesting that you try running a trivkins config
and use the "gantry" HAL component to link the joints.

There is a sample HAL file here:
https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/linuxcnc/blob/0e0418b362f45d7ad332fa3f211cbf8c2f24efd9/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/Probotix/Comet.hal

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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[Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

[Todd Zuercher]

I was rummaging around with synaptic, and noticed that the Linuxcnc Wheezy 
Repository has a linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-486 kernel and headers. I tried to 
install it to see how/if it might work. It booted ok but when I tried to run 
Linuxcnc it said that I must use the 686-pae kernal. The whole point of my 
experiment was to try not to use the 686-pae for some old uni-processor 
machines. What else am I missing? Is this even possible to make work? If the 
non pae kernel is useless why is it even in the repo? 

-- 

 

Todd Zuercher 
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 

===-= 
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[Emc-users] if you are lookin for a fix'r up'r

[kqt4at5v]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darronb/12857667255/in/pool-machined/

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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 31 March 2016 at 17:13,   wrote:
> But wouldn't that break the ability to home the gantry's sides independently?

No. Read the manpage.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Wheezy for Old PCs?

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 31 March 2016 11:45:01 John Thornton wrote:

> Why not just use Ubuntu 10.04?
>
> JT

The newer install iso is basically a debian wheezy-7.8, with full access 
to the debian repos to add almost anything you might need when its not 
carving parts.  Lots better than the *buntu's IMO.

> On 3/31/2016 8:58 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > I was rummaging around with synaptic, and noticed that the Linuxcnc
> > Wheezy Repository has a linux-image-3.4-9-rtai-486 kernel and
> > headers. I tried to install it to see how/if it might work. It
> > booted ok but when I tried to run Linuxcnc it said that I must use
> > the 686-pae kernal. The whole point of my experiment was to try not
> > to use the 686-pae for some old uni-processor machines. What else am
> > I missing? Is this even possible to make work? If the non pae kernel
> > is useless why is it even in the repo?
>
> --
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> Intel Data Analytics Acceleration Library.
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[Danny Miller]

You're describing a VERY weak, overly complicated system.

Even small machines get pretty sloppy with that sort of linkage. Cross 
shafts have a ton of inertia and a lot less torsional stiffness than 
people think.  Belt drives have been pretty springy on even the tiny 
Shapeoko stuff, and it causes a lot of cutting distortion unless you're 
running it dead slow.

  R drives work exceedingly well.  The only way you'd ever link them 
would be a torsion axle all the way down the gantry and sub-belts down 
to the R and the correctly done R do rotate and have their own 
tensioners.  So mechanically complicated and not a mechanically stiff 
solution either.

Danny

On 3/31/2016 7:36 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote:
> For convenience and especially for operation by students, newbies and the 
> generally clueless, build or modify the gantry so both sides are mechanically 
> linked so it is Not Possible for it to get out of square.
> If you have a screw running lengthwise on both sides, Put a chain or belt and 
> idler across one end and on the other, use a center shaft with three stacked 
> sprockets so there's a chain to each screw and the third has its own belt or 
> chain to the motor.
> Another method uses racks along the sides and a shaft across with gears on 
> each end. A variation on that is with a length of roller chain fixed at the 
> ends then wrapped around sprockets and idlers in the vertical ends of the 
> gantry, with a cross shaft to drive like with the racks.
> Then there's the 'wraparound' gantry with a beam that crosses under the table 
> with a single drive down the center. The weakness there is the gantry can 
> still rack a bit freely if the bearing parts are any bit loose or aren't long 
> enough to stay self aligning. The design also needs a very stiff and strong 
> table structure due to the impossibility of having any supports except at the 
> ends.
>
> Why does anyone want a gantry that's has the built in ability to try and rack 
> and jam up when it's simple to build one where that isn't possible?
>
> It simplifies the software and the electronics, eliminating one motor and 
> driver and the need to home each side of the gantry and tweak the software to 
> keep it straight.
>
>
>
>   
>From: "dan...@austin.rr.com" 
>   To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Cc: Dewey Garrett 
>   Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 10:13 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC
> 
> But wouldn't that break the ability to home the gantry's sides independently?
>
> That's a huge problem.  The gantry isn't going to align itself.
>
> A relevant point of the context here is this is going into a community shop, 
> with a constant stream of new users with very limited supervision.  So "power 
> down these axes and mechanically align them" doesn't sound like a viable 
> option.  In the past I've had the stops aligned and ran the gantry into the 
> stops until both sides' steppers stalled... gently.
> 
> --
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> Accelerate data analysis in your applications with
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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[Danny Miller]

I'm a bit confused.  How do you get branched versions, and which one?

When you say "something other than", is this a branch from 2.7.4 PRTK?  
I can't use a non-PRTK branch here.

Danny

On 3/31/2016 11:13 AM, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote:
> But wouldn't that break the ability to home the gantry's sides independently?
>
> That's a huge problem.  The gantry isn't going to align itself.
>
> A relevant point of the context here is this is going into a community shop, 
> with a constant stream of new users with very limited supervision.  So "power 
> down these axes and mechanically align them" doesn't sound like a viable 
> option.  In the past I've had the stops aligned and ran the gantry into the 
> stops until both sides' steppers stalled... gently.
>
> But that sort of hackery won't really fly here.  People would just be jamming 
> it at high speeds and damaging the drives or at least keep screwing up their 
> zero.
>
> Danny
>
>
>  andy pugh  wrote:
>> On 31 March 2016 at 16:34,   wrote:
>> Pardon my ignorance, but what does "branch" mean here?  I have LinuxCNC 
>> 2.7.4 with Preempt-RT kernel support.  Would this mean going with something 
>> other than that?
> Yes, it would mean going with a development version of LinuxCNC rather
> than a released version.
>
> For aesthetic reasons I have been running JA versions on my machines
> for years (none of my machines require it). However for "normal users"
> it is maybe a step too far.
>
> This is why I was suggesting that you try running a trivkins config
> and use the "gantry" HAL component to link the joints.
>
> There is a sample HAL file here:
> https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/linuxcnc/blob/0e0418b362f45d7ad332fa3f211cbf8c2f24efd9/configs/ARM/BeagleBone/Probotix/Comet.hal
>


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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

For convenience and especially for operation by students, newbies and the 
generally clueless, build or modify the gantry so both sides are mechanically 
linked so it is Not Possible for it to get out of square.
If you have a screw running lengthwise on both sides, Put a chain or belt and 
idler across one end and on the other, use a center shaft with three stacked 
sprockets so there's a chain to each screw and the third has its own belt or 
chain to the motor.
Another method uses racks along the sides and a shaft across with gears on each 
end. A variation on that is with a length of roller chain fixed at the ends 
then wrapped around sprockets and idlers in the vertical ends of the gantry, 
with a cross shaft to drive like with the racks.
Then there's the 'wraparound' gantry with a beam that crosses under the table 
with a single drive down the center. The weakness there is the gantry can still 
rack a bit freely if the bearing parts are any bit loose or aren't long enough 
to stay self aligning. The design also needs a very stiff and strong table 
structure due to the impossibility of having any supports except at the ends.

Why does anyone want a gantry that's has the built in ability to try and rack 
and jam up when it's simple to build one where that isn't possible?

It simplifies the software and the electronics, eliminating one motor and 
driver and the need to home each side of the gantry and tweak the software to 
keep it straight.



 
  From: "dan...@austin.rr.com" 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
Cc: Dewey Garrett 
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 10:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC
   
But wouldn't that break the ability to home the gantry's sides independently? 

That's a huge problem.  The gantry isn't going to align itself.  

A relevant point of the context here is this is going into a community shop, 
with a constant stream of new users with very limited supervision.  So "power 
down these axes and mechanically align them" doesn't sound like a viable 
option.  In the past I've had the stops aligned and ran the gantry into the 
stops until both sides' steppers stalled... gently.
   
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Re: [Emc-users] XHC-HB04 on LinuxCNC

[Dewey Garrett]

As mentioned, you might want to try the joints_axes12 branch.
(See below for example xyzx sim configurations in joints_axes12.)

All recent mainline branches (e.g., 2.6.x, 2.7.x, master) support
JOG_CONT and JOG_INCR modes as used by 1) the axis gui for keyboard
jogging and 2) halui pins with names: halui.jog-speed, halui.jog.N.*

The mainline branches do _not_ support wheel (mpg) based jogging in
teleop (world) mode.  Only recent joints_axesNN (NN >=9) branches
support wheel based jogging in teleop (world) mode.

Also note:
1) In recent joints_axesNN branches, some halui hal pin names have been
   renamed and pins have been added to distinguish joints/axes and joint/world
   modes of jogging.  See the joints_axesNN docs, for example section 4.2
   in:

http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/doc/scratch/v2.8.0~pre1-ja~joints-axes12~44c2e6d/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html

2) The LinuxCNC distribution includes a script (LIB:xhc-hb04.tcl) to
   aid in configuring an xhc-hb04 pendant and provides example sim
   configs located in:

   configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04

3) In the joints_axes12 branch, the LIB:xhc-hb04.tcl script is
   'joints_axes aware' and will connect the proper wheel jogging pins
   for _both_ joint and telop jogging for known kinematics, namely
   trivkins and gentrivkins.

4) A gantry config like xyzx is more complicated than simple
   gentrivkins configs because two joints control the x axis coordinate.
   I have added a set of configs to illustrate xyzx configs with simulated
   wheel jogging and with an xhc-hb04 18button pendant.

   
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=commitdiff;h=73829e047a2074a0da10a7cdb0cb2c3284ee92d0

   The configs, located at configs/sim/axis/ja_tests/xyzx_mpg are simplified
   in order to focus on config items that affect joint/world jogging 
functionality:
 a) position commands are connected directly to feedback
 b) immediate homing is used (no home switch logic is included)
 c) machine position limits are set to large numbers

The configs and a README can be examined at:

http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree;f=configs/sim/axis/ja_tests/xyzx_mpg;h=0f6bcb48131beca706ce51ca237173af3ff5a1ab;hb=73829e047a2074a0da10a7cdb0cb2c3284ee92d0


5) To use the joints_axes12 branch, you can make a RIP build from source
   or use a 'scratch' deb from the buildbot.  Instructions for buildbot
   are at :
http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
-- 
Dewey Garrett


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Transform Data into Opportunity.
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