Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

2015-05-17 Thread Ben Goren via EV
On May 10, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Danpatgal via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Low mile 2012 iMiev's are listed anywhere from $7.5 to $10k.

I planted the bug after I drove them back from the airport last night. We'll 
see what, if anything it develops into...but I'm pretty sure it's now on their 
short list...and I don't think they had anything at all on their short list 
until now.

Thanks again!

b
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread Michael Kadie via EV
Generally speaking hub motors without shafts have a high unsprung weight and 
therefore have a rougher ride and a lot of stress on the motor.
24 kwh = 186 miles is more what I have problems with.  4 miles / kwh is 
great efficiency better than Tesla.  The article did mention a max speed of 
47 mph and rule of thumb at 45 mph aerodynamic forces are not significant so 
light weight vehicle does very well.


Michael 'T-Rex' Kadie

-Original Message- 
From: EVDL Administrator via EV

Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2015 8:08 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range 
EV4the masses


On 17 May 2015 at 19:22, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

Personally, my skepticism revolves around the hub motors (pun intended). 
Lots

of people have tried them, and few or none have succeeded.


I'm sure I've missed some of the attempts, but this is one I recall that
came close to success (though nowhere near production).  They mention some
handling problems but (I think) blame them on the somewhat high CG and
narrow track.

http://www.gaura.com/ev/luciole/index_e.html

I have to confess that I've been smitten with this little gem since I first
read of it in the late 1990s.  It's impressive design work for college
students, quite refined.  What a pity it never even got close to production.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV 4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV
On 17 May 2015 at 19:22, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

 Personally, my skepticism revolves around the hub motors (pun intended).  Lots
 of people have tried them, and few or none have succeeded.

I'm sure I've missed some of the attempts, but this is one I recall that 
came close to success (though nowhere near production).  They mention some 
handling problems but (I think) blame them on the somewhat high CG and 
narrow track.

http://www.gaura.com/ev/luciole/index_e.html

I have to confess that I've been smitten with this little gem since I first 
read of it in the late 1990s.  It's impressive design work for college 
students, quite refined.  What a pity it never even got close to production.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV 4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread Alan Arrison via EV

Good luck with that...

On 5/17/2015 3:00 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:


http://www.hybridcars.com/open-source-project-hopes-to-offer-23000-ev-with-186-miles-range/
Open Source Project Hopes To Offer $23,000 EV With 186 Miles Range
by Sarah Shelton  May 14, 2015




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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV 4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread Ben Goren via EV
Huh? Why the pessimism?

EVWest sells complete VW conversion kits, including a 22 kWh battery pack, for 
$19K. That leaves 4K for the sled -- more than enough.

b

On May 17, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Alan Arrison via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:

 Good luck with that...
 
 On 5/17/2015 3:00 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 
 http://www.hybridcars.com/open-source-project-hopes-to-offer-23000-ev-with-186-miles-range/
 Open Source Project Hopes To Offer $23,000 EV With 186 Miles Range
 by Sarah Shelton  May 14, 2015
 
 
 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV 4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread Mike Nickerson via EV
Personally, my skepticism revolves around the hub motors (pun intended).  Lots 
of people have tried them, and few or none have succeeded.

If the motor was something else, I think their chance of success would be 
higher.

However, a year is a very aggressive target.  To me, the project seems similar 
in scope to the Sunrise 2 project.  It is a huge project.

Mike


On May 17, 2015 6:44:18 PM MDT, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
Huh? Why the pessimism?

EVWest sells complete VW conversion kits, including a 22 kWh battery
pack, for $19K. That leaves 4K for the sled -- more than enough.

b

On May 17, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Alan Arrison via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 Good luck with that...
 
 On 5/17/2015 3:00 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
 

http://www.hybridcars.com/open-source-project-hopes-to-offer-23000-ev-with-186-miles-range/
 Open Source Project Hopes To Offer $23,000 EV With 186 Miles Range
 by Sarah Shelton  May 14, 2015
 


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Re: [EVDL] Wiring sizing

2015-05-17 Thread Michael Ross via EV
An ampacity chart is also a good google images search.  Remember that
ampacity depends on insulation and how well the wire or bundle of wires can
convect heat to air.

On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 12:34 AM, John Lussmyer via EV ev@lists.evdl.org
wrote:

 On Sat May 16 21:21:56 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
 How do I find a chart about wire sizing n resitance.

 How about a google search for wire sizing resistance?

 2nd hit is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge




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Re: [EVDL] Supercharging is not the way.

2015-05-17 Thread Lee Hart via EV

Roland via EV wrote:

Did any of you monitor the voltage of the most negative cell and the
most positive cell during the charging cycle and discharge cycle
using a very high charging system?...

Did not have any BMS back in the 70's at the time.  During the
discharging cycle which may be up to 800 motor amperes, the most
positive cell would always end up less voltage than the most positive
cell.


There has been anecdotal evidence of this for many years. It's sometimes 
seen in big UPS that use many small batteries in series, or in big 
industrial batteries.


The effect seems to be caused because batteries at the positive or 
negative ends of the string also being at the outside ends or corners of 
a pack. They run cooler there, as a consequence of having more exposed 
surface area.


--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
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[EVDL] EVLN: Airbus E-Fan 2.0 Electric-aircraft production in 2018

2015-05-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.greentechlead.com/electric-vehicle/airbus-to-commercially-produce-e-fan-2-0-in-france-23485
Airbus to commercially produce E-Fan 2.0 in France
By Ajith Kumar S  May 10, 2015

[image  
http://www.greentechlead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/E-Fan_2.0.jpg
(Airbus E-Fan 2.0 electric aircraft)
]

Airbus is to construct the Final Assembly Line (FAL) for its E-Fan 2.0,
all-electric aircraft at Pau in southwest France.

E-Fan 2.0 is a two-seater, initial-pilot-trainer version of E-Fan, the
electric technical demonstrator aircraft of Airbus.

Airbus had launched the E-Fan project in 2012 and presented the first
demonstrator craft at the Paris Air Show in 2013. E-Fan went on its first
test flight on March 11, 2014 and has since flown 78 test flights spanning
38 flight hours.

“The industrialisation of our E-Fan aircraft will help us advance electric
flight and also to gain experience to scale up the technology,” Jean Botti,
the chief technology officer of Airbus Group, said.

Voltair SAS, a fully owned subsidiary of Airbus created last year, will
manage the development, production and delivery of E-Fan2.0s besides
providing services such as sales and maintenance for E-Fan craft.

Airbus is investing 20 million euros in the overall design and development
of E-Fan 2.0. Partners of Airbus are also contributing toward the project.

Additionally, the project is getting the support of La Nouvelle France
Industrielle and the Aquitaine region is offering it a regional subsidy —
the FEDER (Le Fonds Européen de Développement Regional) — for 2.25 million
euros.

Airbus selected Pau for the FAL as it offers direct access to the runway of
a medium size airport and good meteorological conditions.

Airbus will be completing purchase of the site from the current owner this
year and start constructing the FAL by the middle of 2016.

The company should be able to roll out the first E-Fan 2.0 from the FAL at
the end of 2017 or early 2018.

E-Fan 2.0 was a key project in the industrial plans launched by the French
government in 2013.
[© greentechlead.com]
...
http://www.airbusgroup.com/int/en/innovation-environment/e-fan-the-electric-plane.html
Airbus Group - E-Fan: the electric plane



http://www.abc22now.com/news/top-stories/stories/Electric-Airplanes-Could-Revolutionize-Work-Commutes-130563.shtml
Electric Airplanes Could Revolutionize Work Commutes




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[EVDL] Flying-saucer floating-orb e-drones, new e-aircraft unveiled

2015-05-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3078430/Drones-future-unveiled-Flying-saucer-floating-orb-new-aircraft-soon-skies.html
Drones of the future unveiled: Flying saucer and floating orb among new
aircraft that could soon take to our skies
By Jonathan O'Callaghan for MailOnline | 12 May 2015

[images  
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965FF80578-3078430-Companies_have_unveiled_new_drones_at_an_event_in_Atlanta_Georgi-a-12_1431444059374.jpg
Companies have unveiled new drones at an event in Atlanta, Georgia. One
giant drone resembled a helicopter and could reach 50mph. Another called
Atlas used a spherical exoskeleton to stay protected. And one other large
drone seemed to resemble a bird of prey (shown here in this artist's
impression)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965F7C0578-3078430-This_electric_plane_called_Lotus_developed_by_Californian_electr-a-15_1431444059389.jpg
This electric plane called Lotus, developed by Californian electric
propulsion company Joby, uses two bladed rotors on each tip to provide
thrust, take off and land

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/17/28980EB70578-0-image-a-1_1431446898666.jpg
Joby's Lotus drone uses two bladed rotors on each tip

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965F500578-3078430-Also_on_show_was_an_odd_disc_shaped_vehicle_known_as_Radeus_from-a-14_1431444059383.jpg
Also on show was an odd disc-shaped vehicle known as Radeus, from Radeus
Labs in California.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965F440578-3078430-The_IT180_is_a_bulbous_UAV_that_can_reach_up_to_56mph_90km_h_and-a-9_1431444059217.jpg
The IT180, meanwhile, is a bulbous UAV that can reach up to 56mph (90km/h)
and an altitude of 9,840ft (3,000 metres), with more than two hours of
battery life.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965EAF0578-3078430-A_giant_seven_foot_wide_plane_called_Eturnas_D_shown_was_also_un-a-8_1431444059210.jpg
A giant seven-foot-wide plane called Eturnas D was also unveiled, which
partially uses solar power to remain in the air for six hours, reaching
speeds of 27mph (43km/h).

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965F200578-3078430-Shown_is_a_spherical_offering_from_Unmanned_Cowboys_named_the_Al-a-13_1431444059381.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965FD10578-3078430-Shown_is_the_huge_SnowGoose_Bravo_from_Mist_Mobility_Integrated_-a-10_1431444059222.jpg
Shown is the huge SnowGoose Bravo from Mist Mobility Integrated Systems
Technology in Canada. Resembling a helicopter, the vehicle can carry 600lbs
(270kg) of cargo, reach 18,000ft (5,490 metres) and travel at more than
50mph (80km/h)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/12/16/28965FD90578-3078430-Pictured_is_the_Hummingbird_II_from_Reference_Technologies_in_Co-a-11_1431444059372.jpg
Pictured is the Hummingbird II from Reference Technologies in Colorado,
which can stay in the air for more than nine hours using its six propellers


video  flash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnvXnqwKtzg
UFROTestFlight 6 25
kheom  Jun 27, 2014
]

-Companies have unveiled new drones at an event in Atlanta, Georgia
-One giant drone resembled a helicopter and could reach 50mph
-Another called Atlas used a spherical exoskeleton to stay protected
-And one other large drone seemed to resemble a bird of prey 

A solar-powered autonomous plane, a 'flying saucer' and a mechanical bird of
prey are just some of the drones that have gone on show at a recent event.

The lavish drones were revealed at an event in Atlanta, Georgia, showing
what might be next for this emerging industry.

And while many have military purposes, they show how new technologies are
being used to help vehicles take to the sky.

As reported by Defense One, the vehicles were unveiled at the Unmanned
Systems 2015 show.

One was an electric plane called Lotus, developed by Californian electric
propulsion company Joby, which uses two bladed rotors on each tip to provide
thrust, take off and land.

The blades can rotate to allow the vehicle to take to the skies vertically,
before it enters cruise mode by rotating its blades out.

AMAZON'S DRONES WILL TRACK YOU DOWN  
Amazon hopes to put an end to the problem of missed deliveries with its new
drone delivery service - by tracking recipients down even if they are out
and about.

A patent filed by the firm reveals that its drones will lock onto a
recipient's smartphone to bring their parcel to their exact location.

The machines will even be able to relay information to each other about the
weather and traffic conditions on the ground. 

In cruise mode, with the tail propeller providing the sole propulsion
source, it resembles a bird of prey, such as the osprey.

It spins two sets of blades in operate directions at 60mph (97km/h) to
create lift, while the top of the vehicle acts as an autogyro.

A spherical offering from Unmanned Cowboys named the All-Terrain Land and
Air Sphere (Atlas) was also shown 

[EVDL] EVLN: Manowitz Builds a clutchless Electric Roadster in Manhattan, NY

2015-05-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.qgazette.com/news/2015-05-13/Features/Manhattan_Man_Builds_Electric_Car.html
Manhattan Man Builds Electric Car
2015-05-13  

[images  
http://www.qgazette.com/sites/www.qgazette.com/files/images/2015-05-13/30p1.jpg
There are two electric cars (so far) to this story: a 2013 72v DC Electric
Roadster with roll cage and canvas body; and a 2015 96v AC Electric “Jeep.”
Both cars use the VW chassis system. 

http://www.qgazette.com/sites/www.qgazette.com/files/images/2015-05-13/30p2.preview.jpg
]

Doug Manowitz has built his own car. What started as a science experiment
has ended in the construction of a series of electric cars designed for
urban use, short range travel and ease of use.

Manowitz, who renovates townhouses in the city, purchased at online auction
a 72- volt DC forklift motor. His intention was to create a low-voltage,
high-torque hoist for use in any building where there might not be adequate
Con Edison service or perhaps no service at all. After it became apparent
that there would be no need for the motor, he found a junked VW chassis to
experiment on.

Among the advantages of using an existing chassis, the vehicle may be
registered with only a VIN (vehicle identification number) stamped on the
frame. A body is not a requirement to pass inspection.

Two cars were assembled in the basement of the apartment building garage
where Manowitz lives, in Manhattan. The parking garage owners have been very
cooperative and installed local 110v convenience outlets for his use near
the bays in which Manowitz stores the cars.

In both cases he manufactured aluminum adapter plates to mount the motors,
and had to find inventive ways to engage the VW drive shaft. In both cases
he was fortunate to have the original couplings from the gas engines.

“At this point I might add that both cars are ‘clutchless.’ Since the
electric motor does not idle when you lift your foot from the accelerator,
it is easy to ‘throw’ the transmission into gear. The motor being
high-torque will drive the vehicle from rest, even in third gear, although
perhaps not efficiently. I might add that we now realize that the newer car
with regenerative braking always has the transmission engaged with the
motor, unless you pull it into neutral. To shift to a higher gear, you need
to ‘double clutch’ or match the rpm of the motor to your coasting speed.
Looking into replacing the transmission with a Porsche semi-automatic type
to relieve this small problem,” said Manowitz.

He has been commuting to work 120 city blocks round trip (about nine miles
daily) for two years, weather permitting. The flexibility of the 110v
charger permits Manowitz to plug in at the local coffee shop, alongside
people plugging in their laptops.

“I just carry a 50-foot extension cord in a storage box on board. I frequent
restaurants and cafes that have parking in front or nearby and ‘top off’
charge at various waypoints. It frees one from the anxiety of planning a
trip around where commercial 220v charging stations may be. And generally in
NYC, they are all within parking garages that charge you for parking and
again for the use of the charging station. Of course , if you can afford a
Tesla, you probably don’t care about the cost of parking,” he said.

“The next phase for me is to search out a high school shop class, or a
technical school, to collaborate with and teach. I am currently looking for
a real estate sponsor to donate industrial space.

“Another goal is to contact NYC administration officials, for example the
Parks department, and solicit a proposal to furnish them with zero emission
electric utility vehicles that are street legal, not NEV type low-speed
vehicles.

“What we’re doing is really bringing back to life 45-50 year old cars,
recycling in a meaningful way, and repurposing “junk” to be functional and
clean.”

For more photos and some articles, visit Manowitz’ blog at
electricroadster.tumblr.com
[© qgazette.com]




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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/who-are-you-going-to-believe-toyota-or-tesla/2015/05/15/5701760e-f9a7-11e4-a47c-e56f4db884ed_story.html
Who are you going to believe: Tesla or Toyota?

http://gas2.org/2015/05/15/feedback-hyundai-tucson-fcev-owners/
fcv Refueling Takes Longer Than Advertised

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/05/12/solar-impulse-2-takes-renewable-energy-clean-tech-to-new-heights-says-pilot/
Solar Impulse 2 eplane takes renewable energy and clean tech to new heights,
says pilot

http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-batteries-toyota-em4820/
Solar And Old hev Batteries Powering Yellowstone Campus

http://bikeportland.org/2015/05/12/first-look-yubas-new-spicy-curry-electric-assist-cargo-bike-143114
Yuba’s new ‘Spicy Curry’ electric-assist cargo bike

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/12/india-rolls-out-ev-incentives/
India Rolls Out EV Incentives for scooters,motorcycles,cars,buses, +


[EVDL] EVLN: Open Source Street-Legal affordable long-range EV 4the masses

2015-05-17 Thread brucedp5 via EV


http://www.hybridcars.com/open-source-project-hopes-to-offer-23000-ev-with-186-miles-range/
Open Source Project Hopes To Offer $23,000 EV With 186 Miles Range 
by Sarah Shelton  May 14, 2015

[images
http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Luka-EV.jpg

http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Luka-EV-2.jpg

http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Luka-EV-electrification-parts.jpg

http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Luka-EV-chassis.jpg

http://www.hybridcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Luka-EV-battery-pack.jpg
]

An open source project is currently in the works to build an electric
vehicle powered by in-wheel motors.

The goals are ambitious: 1) Build an electric vehicle with a minimum range
of 186 miles that can theoretically be put into production and sold for
under $22,700. 2) Share the design so that others can replicate or customize
the platform. 3) Do it all in less than a year.

“The overall aim is to show that all electric cars can be competitive,” said
MW Motors of the prototype, which it has named the vehicle the Luka EV.

Working from a shop in Plzen, Czech Republic – about 50 miles west of Prague
– MW Motors’ team was formed by a handful of enthusiasts. The team plans on
sharing full details on the Luka EV on Hackaday.com, a website that
encourages an open exchange of ideas, with an emphasis on engineering.

“We hope that by open sourcing everything we may even encourage small
companies to open building cars locally in different countries,” said the
project manager.

The project itself is an experiment on a small scale, limited to one vehicle
for now. But if the prototype successfully meets the team’s goals, MW Motors
see three possibilities. The first is that an outside company will take the
concept and customize it to fit a specific market segment.

“We are sharing a platform, not just a car called the Luka EV,” explained MW
Motors. “The platform is very flexible. We think that with subtle changes to
the chassis design that people can make themselves, it should be easy to
make a range of cars [such as] a family car, a modern city car, a taxi or
even light goods vehicles.”

The company could also commercialize the Luka EV, though MW Motors doesn’t
know if this is a suitable direction.

“We are not sure if we will make it commercial or just leave a platform for
others to develop,” MW Motors said.

The team leader said the most likely option of the three is to create a kit
car for consumers to assemble.

“We will probably sell all the parts needed to make a car as a kit,” said MW
Motors. “Furthermore, we will release details of all the vendors we use and
(if legally possible and approved by a vendor) we will say how much each
component costs us. If this is not possible, we will bundle products” to
sell items such as the wheels and tires together. “Bundling would get us
over the potential legal issue of showing the amount we paid for a single
item.”

No matter which opportunities, if any, the project eventually leads to, two
final items must be checked off for MW Motors to call the Luka EV a success:
the design must be production-grade and a few vehicles must be sold at a
profit.

“In order for the project to be meet all the stated aims, we must sell some
vehicles for under 20,000 euros [$22,700] and we must give documentary proof
that we make a profit selling for 20,000 euros. So, without doubt we will
need to form a legal entity, make some cars and sell some cars,” MW Motors
said.

Though the Luka EV’s platform could be altered to create a larger sedan or
taxi, MW Motors noted that the expected market is most likely individual
commuters:

“We did not have a target market at the start of the project … But, talking
to people, it seems the majority of people seem to think this would be a
perfect car to go to and from work in.

“Usually an individual has to pay for the petrol to get to and from work,
and almost always they go to work alone. The journey to work is usually
short – below 50 km [31 miles] one way, 100 km return. As such, the Luka EV
would seem ideal.”

The car “only having the seats is not a problem as the kids usually do not
go to work with you,” added MW Motors.

Significant progress has already been made since the project began. During a
recent 5.5-hour range test, the Luka EV drove 128 miles on a single charge,
reaching a top speed of 47 mph.

The next step is to have the car road certified. Yesterday, MW Motors
learned last minute that the testing center in the U.K. has an opening for
May 22, and is scrambling to prepare.

“Very few pass the test first time around so it is likely we will fail,” MW
Motors said. “However, even failing will be good because we will get a
definitive list of faults we need to fix.”

Powertrain
MW Motors wanted only electric power for the Luka EV, selecting hub motors.
Mounted within the wheel assembly, the company said it picked this
technology because it hub motors arelightweight with few