Re: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal
Increasing inductance slows down the ramp up of current, so adding inductance to a motor with too low inductance helps to get better current limit, especially on controllers with low switching speed where a single step will cause so big current change that it can damage the controller.This is entirely different from the addition of a physical loop of wire, even though that also adds inductance, because a physical distance between the two wires or even a wire running without the "return" current running right next to it, will act as antenna, spewing the switching noise into the air and possibly disrupting the operation of sensitive circuits in the controller but certainly killing your radio reception and possibly someone else's which is illegal. The addition of inductance is what i have done on my previous EV truck which had a low speed EV100 controller and a large 11 inch motor. I could fit 3 loops of the motor cable through a large microwave transformer core. But i kept the motor cables close together. Do not add resistance in the motor loop, as that only increases losses.Hope this clarifies.Cor Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: EVDL Administrator via EV Date: 12/17/17 9:13 AM (GMT-08:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: EVDL Administrator Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal Cor, Paul, thanks for the replies! I forgot about the freeewheeling diode(s). So I'll connect it the way the manual says. Still ... I recall some discussion years ago about fixed frequency 15kHz+ Curtis controllers having trouble with current limiting on large, low inductance motors. It caused the combination to have jerky starts, or worse. The way Lee Hart explained it was that the low resistance meant that the current didn't have time to decay enough when the chopping transistors were off (because it was a very short time), so the current just kept rising insead of being properly limited. If that were the crucial factor here, I would think that extra resistance in the motor loop would HELP. But obviously not, because we're always advised to keep the motor leads as short as possible. I hate to sound dense (even though I am), but while I can understand that connecting the motor lead at the contactor (or other point ahead of the controller common terminal) could change the way the controller "sees" the motor, I still don't fully understand what specific problems that might cause. Maybe the earlier discussion about motor loop impedance / resistance isn't relevant here? Thanks again! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171217/1676c7ab/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal
Cor, Paul, thanks for the replies! I forgot about the freeewheeling diode(s). So I'll connect it the way the manual says. Still ... I recall some discussion years ago about fixed frequency 15kHz+ Curtis controllers having trouble with current limiting on large, low inductance motors. It caused the combination to have jerky starts, or worse. The way Lee Hart explained it was that the low resistance meant that the current didn't have time to decay enough when the chopping transistors were off (because it was a very short time), so the current just kept rising insead of being properly limited. If that were the crucial factor here, I would think that extra resistance in the motor loop would HELP. But obviously not, because we're always advised to keep the motor leads as short as possible. I hate to sound dense (even though I am), but while I can understand that connecting the motor lead at the contactor (or other point ahead of the controller common terminal) could change the way the controller "sees" the motor, I still don't fully understand what specific problems that might cause. Maybe the earlier discussion about motor loop impedance / resistance isn't relevant here? Thanks again! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...
On 12/16/2017 11:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: I plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map) https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr Do you plan to hit the EV museum in Kingman? Worth the effort, IMHO. An interesting segment of Route 66 is between Needles and Kingman; goes through the little tourist town of Oatman and then over the Sitgreaves Pass. Also, you should take a look at Ira Yates' charging station in Iraan. Ira has been a longish term Austin EV proponent. At least since he bought one of the early Tesla Roadsters. Good luck! ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...
I may have missed the post, but what is in Cyclone, TX? Looks like it's in the
middle of nowhere (but they do have a BBQ).
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 12:09 AM, brucedp5 via EV
wrote:
In the past I have mentioned that I am spending time doing tasks and
research to relocate (to more affordable digs). I thank the people who have
helped advise me offline (especially Willie), so I can keep my head straight
and aimed toward achieving my goal. I have made decisions and actions (like
a commitment) toward that goal. If all goes well I will begin my trip on
Monday.
Not to go into all the details ... how this will impact my EVLN posts we
will have to see. Knowing my energy levels are not as high as when I was a
younger man, I am limiting my driving time before stopping for an over night
motel stay (this might be a rather painful week long trip for others, but
this trip will be at a slow enough pace so I do not over tax/load myself. I
plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr
There may be days when I do not post, or days where I post a couple of days
worth. I am hoping, my slower pace method (and motel WiFi) will allow me the
energy levels& connectivity to make this transition seamless.
A lot of challenges await this old-man, but I am hoping for the best.
For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/archive/
{brucedp.neocities.org}
--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20171217/0bbe5fa2/attachment.html>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...
Best of luck Bruce - take it easy on the drive, and don’t forget to stop and
have some fun along the way.
Tom Keenan
>> On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> In the past I have mentioned that I am spending time doing tasks and
>> research to relocate (to more affordable digs). I thank the people who have
>> helped advise me offline (especially Willie), so I can keep my head straight
>> and aimed toward achieving my goal. I have made decisions and actions (like
>> a commitment) toward that goal. If all goes well I will begin my trip on
>> Monday.
>>
>> Not to go into all the details ... how this will impact my EVLN posts we
>> will have to see. Knowing my energy levels are not as high as when I was a
>> younger man, I am limiting my driving time before stopping for an over night
>> motel stay (this might be a rather painful week long trip for others, but
>> this trip will be at a slow enough pace so I do not over tax/load myself. I
>> plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
>> https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr
>>
>> There may be days when I do not post, or days where I post a couple of days
>> worth. I am hoping, my slower pace method (and motel WiFi) will allow me the
>> energy levels& connectivity to make this transition seamless.
>>
>> A lot of challenges await this old-man, but I am hoping for the best.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal
With these controllers, it is essential that the field be reversed and that the armature be connected directly to the controller’s B+ and A2 terminals, because the plug diode inside is connected to these terminals. Some vehicles, especially those previously using older, resistor-type controllers, may reverse the motor armature rather than the field winding. Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 17, 2017, at 1:36 AM, Cor van de Water via EV > wrote: > > The battery is not the only thing that supplies current to the motor. > The switching of the controller connects the motor to the battery for a > period of time, > followed by a period where the "freewheel" (diode or transistor) inside > the controller > carries all the current, also during the time that the motor is > connected to the battery, > it is not just the battery but also the capacitors in the controller > that provide the current. > Wiring the motor to the contactor instead of to the controller itself, > creates a large loop > and increases the inductance which can affect the operation of the > controller, besides creating > a lot of noise from the high frequent switching and the large "antenna" > loop created by the > wiring conncted to different points. > Some people even twist the motor leads together to minimize the > effective area inside the > loop created by the two motor leads, to further reduce the noise > radiated from the > output of the controller. > especially nearby sensing wires such as throttle control or sensor > inputs can be affected > by hundreds of volts fast-switching nearby and generating large amounts > of noise due to > improper wiring. > > -Original Message- > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL > Administrator via EV > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 10:32 PM > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Cc: EVDL Administrator > Subject: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal > > This question refers to a non-road EV, but I think it's applicable to > road EVs too. > > I recently bought an Alltrax controller for my Elec-trac tractor. Like > most > (all?) DC controllers, it has 3 high power terminals. In this case > they're B-, M-, and B+M+ (actually marked just B+ but described as the > B+M+ terminal). > > The printed manual with it contains the following intriguing warning. > It's printed in boldface type and underlined text (in parentheses, > quotated, capital letters ... no, wait, that's something else). > > "Connect the motor leads as shown, making sure that you connect the B+ > power lead from the contactor and the A1 motor lead AT the B+ terminal > of the controller. This is important for proper controller operation." > > I read this as meaning that I should NOT, say, run a single cable from > the contactor "downstream" side to the controller B+M+ terminal, and > then connect the motor A1 lead to the contactor at that "downstream" > terminal. > > Instead, the motor A1 lead should be extended to the controller B+M+ > terminal, so that there are 2 lugs on that controller terminal. > > View following with a monospaced font such as Courier: > > RIGHT: > |- > || > | Motor > B- |M- B+M+| > |-() -() ()-- > - | > --- | > - | > --- | > |___| > > BatteryController Motor > > > WRONG: > > |- > || > | Motor > B- |M- B+M+| > |-() -() () | > - | | > --- | | > - | | > --- | | > |___|__| > > BatteryController Motor > > I've previously connected DC controllers the "wrong" way -- that is, > connecting the motor lead to the contactor when it made for a shorter > motor lead. It seemed to work fine. > > I guess my ignorance is showing here. Can someone explain why > connecting the motor directly to the common controller terminal, not > some other terminal feeding it, would be "important for proper > controller operation"? > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA > EVDL Administrator > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL > Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > = = = = = = = = = = = = > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the > webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please d
Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...
Best of luck on your travels.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2017, at 9:09 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>
>
> In the past I have mentioned that I am spending time doing tasks and
> research to relocate (to more affordable digs). I thank the people who have
> helped advise me offline (especially Willie), so I can keep my head straight
> and aimed toward achieving my goal. I have made decisions and actions (like
> a commitment) toward that goal. If all goes well I will begin my trip on
> Monday.
>
> Not to go into all the details ... how this will impact my EVLN posts we
> will have to see. Knowing my energy levels are not as high as when I was a
> younger man, I am limiting my driving time before stopping for an over night
> motel stay (this might be a rather painful week long trip for others, but
> this trip will be at a slow enough pace so I do not over tax/load myself. I
> plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
> https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr
>
> There may be days when I do not post, or days where I post a couple of days
> worth. I am hoping, my slower pace method (and motel WiFi) will allow me the
> energy levels& connectivity to make this transition seamless.
>
> A lot of challenges await this old-man, but I am hoping for the best.
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
