Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van
There is a link on the bottom of the page for a quote. On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 7:46 PM Jay Summet via EV wrote: > Nicehow much for a regular range, extended wheelbase > Chassis (no build out) with Solar and heat pump? > > Jay > > On 10/30/22 21:32, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: > > https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html > > > > We are going to be at SEMA this week in Vegas if anyone wants to come > have > > a look. > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221030/68c16e9c/attachment.htm > > > > ___ > > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221030/65227b69/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van
Nicehow much for a regular range, extended wheelbase Chassis (no build out) with Solar and heat pump? Jay On 10/30/22 21:32, (-Phil-) via EV wrote: https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html We are going to be at SEMA this week in Vegas if anyone wants to come have a look. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221030/68c16e9c/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
There are many varieties of Li Ion to choose from. At this point in time, Li Ion appears to be the primary secondary, so to speak, battery choice. :-) Lead acid, much like other legacy technologies, will take some time to fade into the background. It is simply a matter of time. Lead acid batteries _claim_ to be 95%+ recycled, but the actual lead usage figures (from the lead industry's own website) tell a different story. About 50% of all lead used comes from recycled lead, but the other 50% comes from lead mines. This 50/50 mix has been the case for at least a decade. About 80% of all lead is used in the production of lead-acid batteries. (Again, these figures are right from the lead industry's website.) If you think about that for just a moment, it becomes apparent that at _least_ 30% of lead acid batteries must be escaping recycling. (Likely more than 30% since some fraction of the other lead use products are indeed recycled.) Obviously, the lead industry's claim that 95% of lead-acid batteries cannot be correct. I suspect that 95% of the lead-acid batteries that manage to enter the gates of the recycling facility manage to be recycled, rather than 95% of _all_ lead-acid batteries are recycled. Numerous lead smelter facilities have ended up as super-fund sites. For a brief period in my life, I lived in what was discovered to be in the plume of such a super-fund site. Globeville, CO. They removed the top few inches of soil from the entire neighborhood, carted it away, and replaced it. Thankfully, I was not there during the years that the smelter was in operation. I know people that were, however, and they were very obviously affected. Another interesting fact is that there are about 2500 _reportable_ injuries from lead-acid batteries in ICE cars in the USA every year, mostly due to accidental hydrogen explosions. There are certainly more unreported injuries, and incidents. No doubt, we will move on from lead-acid batteries. Bill D. On 10/31/2022 11:15 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them and downwind. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On Oct 30, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Peri Hartman wrote: There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What else can be done? EV List Lackey wrote: Nickel metal hydride? There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use different solutions. Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every ICE is still using lead-acids. Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher energy density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. Nickel is expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being widely done for batteries). Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled. And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one. Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Death of ICE
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[EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van
https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html We are going to be at SEMA this week in Vegas if anyone wants to come have a look. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20221030/68c16e9c/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
Don’t forget that recycling of lead acid batteries contaminates the communities around them, creating major health problems to those near them and downwind. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Oct 30, 2022, at 1:56 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > > Peri Hartman wrote: >>> There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What >>> else can be done? > > EV List Lackey wrote: >> Nickel metal hydride? > > There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be > used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. > > It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing > to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is > bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use > different solutions. > > Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has > a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf > carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every ICE > is still using lead-acids. > > Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher energy > density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. Nickel is > expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being widely done for > batteries). > > Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, > less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled. > > And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be > exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one. > > Lee Hart > > -- > "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked > what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
Peri Hartman wrote: There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What else can be done? EV List Lackey wrote: Nickel metal hydride? There are actually lots of rechargeable battery technologies that could be used. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. It's unfortunate that manufacturers tend to prefer a monoculture. "One thing to rule them all". But anything that you try to apply to 8 billion people is bound to cause unforeseen problems. Different applications should really use different solutions. Lead-acid is cheap, and widely recyclable. But it's relatively heavy and has a low energy density. It still makes sense for short-range EVs like golf carts, fork lifts, scooters, etc. Also, don't forget that virtually every ICE is still using lead-acids. Nickel-based batteries (nickel-iron, nickel-cadmium, nimh) have higher energy density and longer life, and the materials are relatively abundant. Nickel is expensive, but fairly easy to recycle (though it's not being widely done for batteries). Lithium-based batteries have the highest energy density, but are expensive, less safe, and (at least for the present) not being recycled. And, there are lots of other chemistries that could be used. We should be exploring *every* option; not just blindly picking one. Lee Hart -- "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] Death of ICE
I think we are missing the ironic (and impending) end of ICE. It will be range anxiety induced by lack of readily available fuel. You can't make fuel at home. You can't make fuel in small quantities economically. You can't distribute fuel in small quantities economically. No one wants to live near an oil refinery. Terry Dowling ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of
As best as I can tell, LiFePo is far superior to NiMH. I looked at several sites and here's data from one that seems to be consistent with the others, but easier to read: https://www.hardingenergy.com/lithium-2/ https://www.hardingenergy.com/nickel/ Continuous rate: Li is about 10x better (doesn't say if applies to charge & discharge) Wh/Kg: Li is about double. Wh/L: Li is about 75%. I put the last one in because it is the one failing point of LiFePo. On other factors, they are fairly equivalent or not relevant as presented. So, for cars and trucks, which is more important - the weight or the volume ? I don't know, both are important. But I think the principal factor is the charge and discharge rates. We're already struggling to get fast enough charge rates to enable easy long distance driving, and that needs to improve (by most people's opinions). NiMH would be a large setback. I have no idea if the patent has somehow been extended. Peri << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "EV List Lackey via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "EV List Lackey" Sent: 29-Oct-22 17:37:06 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of On 29 Oct 2022 at 20:57, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: There's been a move back to LiFePo because it doesn't use cobalt. What else can be done ? Nickel metal hydride? NiMH has significantly lower specific energy than lithium, but reliability and cycle life are outstanding and well proven. I don't know if we're in any better shape on the nickel supply than we are on lithium and cobalt, or how nickel mining's environmental footprint compares with theirs. I see that nickel mainly comes from Indonesia, Philippines, Canada, and French New Caledonia. Those are relatively stable places. I think a lot of the reason that NiMH lost out to lithium for the current EV stable was the idiotic and immoral (should be criminal) patent emcumbrance. But that's expired, hasn't it? Yes? No? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Things I once thought were funny are scary now. I often feel like a resident of Pompeii who has been asked for some humorous comments on lava. -- Tom Lehrer = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
