Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
Tesla would likely use LFP cells in a low-cost model, which would be much easier to source. I posit they could if they wanted to, but by waiting they will be able to make it cheaper. I think they are trying to get the Cybertruck out ASAP. On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 4:33 PM John Lussmyer via EV wrote: > On 1/20/2023 3:54 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > > But I can certainly see some other automaker recognizing the need; and > > they may be working right now to make the next "peoples-car" to fill it. > > The only problem with that is the all the Legacy car makers: > > a) Have LOTS of debt > > b) use old manufacturing techniques that cost more when building cars. > It's unclear if ANY of the Legacy maker EV's are even breaking even > right now. > > I'd bet that a low-end Tesla will come out before any of the Legacy > makers come up with one that is reasonable. > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230120/4addc02a/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
On 1/20/2023 3:54 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: But I can certainly see some other automaker recognizing the need; and they may be working right now to make the next "peoples-car" to fill it. The only problem with that is the all the Legacy car makers: a) Have LOTS of debt b) use old manufacturing techniques that cost more when building cars. It's unclear if ANY of the Legacy maker EV's are even breaking even right now. I'd bet that a low-end Tesla will come out before any of the Legacy makers come up with one that is reasonable. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: I keep hearing that Tesla might introduce a smaller, cheaper EV. That would open up EVs to a wider range of drivers, but would also cut into their profits. I continue to wonder why a smaller cheaper car would mean lower profits. It seems like there are endless examples of cars (and many other products) where profits *increased* when cheaper versions were produced in higher volumes. A smaller car uses less materials, so can be cheaper to produce. Vast numbers of people just need basic transportation; they don't want (and can't afford) high-end stereos, NAV systems, heated seats, supercar performance, fancy wheels, etc. It's an under-served market. Tesla may not be the right company to deliver on this. Right now, they are capacity limited; so they may as well sell the cars they can build for as high a price as possible. Their market is mainly up-scale luxury performance vehicles. But I can certainly see some other automaker recognizing the need; and they may be working right now to make the next "peoples-car" to fill it. Lee -- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
On 1/20/2023 11:11 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: If you look at history you will see selling a lot at low prices works. At least it did for Henry Ford. Don't forget,Tesla controls a lot of battery manufacturing. The have the batteries. Everyone else doesn't. Their cars are efficient and need less batteries. Do the math. Lawrence Rhodes And if you've been following Tesla news, up until recently Tesla was battery constrained. They were using all the batteries they could get or build. The only thing a cheaper Tesla would have done during that time would be to reduce profit - which they've been plowing back into making more batteries. Now that they are getting enough batteries, a cheaper Tesla is far more likely - and they've been discussing it again. ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] Configured a Tesla Y. Missed incentives by $600
Maybe I did something wrong or misunderstood the rules. What is base price vs. true cost. How do you determine that? Which is qualifying? Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230120/3d802094/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 22:15:39 +0100 From: "EV List Lackey" : wrote: I keep hearing that Tesla might introduce a smaller, cheaper EV. That would open up EVs to a wider range of drivers, but would also cut into their profits. It'll be interesting to see which of those is more important to them, or rather to Musk. > And those other EV's aren't being produced in enough volume to be much > competition either. >No offense, but that strikes me as a rather US-centric statement. I assure >you that in Europe, the traditional automakers are serious about building >and selling EVs - in Europe. >They seem less concerned about the US, probably because they need all they >can make for the EU. Another possible reason is that they foresee likely >future US political trends that will favor ICEVs and disfavor EVs. >David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey If you look at history you will see selling a lot at low prices works. At least it did for Henry Ford. Don't forget,Tesla controls a lot of battery manufacturing. The have the batteries. Everyone else doesn't. Their cars are efficient and need less batteries. Do the math. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230120/fd3bf0f0/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices for those who can appreciate their ability to do so.
On 20 Jan 2023 at 2:26, Ryan Fulcher via EV wrote: > there likely wouldn't be any BEVs for sale from any OEMs were it not > for Tesla forcing them into this market. That again strikes me as US-centric. Tesla's luxury-EVs-first strategy worked surprisingly well in the US, but flopped in Europe. Ten years ago, Europeans just weren't all that interested in a big, heavy, 6-figure-plus luxury EV. The car that showed Europe what was possible with EVs was the Nissan Leaf's cousin, the Renault Zoe. The Zoe was the EU's EV sales leader for nearly a decade, thanks in part to being the right size for the time - it was a B-segment supermini - and thanks especially to its leased battery. That allowed a very reasonable purchase price (20,700 euros in 2012), and also negated buyer concerns about battery life. I'd agree that Tesla's example drove range competition worldwide, but IMO production EVs would have succeeded in the EU even if Tesla had never existed. Now, when European production EVs would have spread from the EU to the US is another question. I doubt that US buyers would have had much interest in an EU-style supermini, so it might have taken a few years. Today, though, EU automakers are pushing EVs closer to the US preference for bloated, overweight (and more profitable) vehicles. So I'd agree that you can probably give at least some credit to Tesla for production EVs' current availability in the US. But I don't think it's accurate or fair to say that no OEMs would have offered EVs without Tesla. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = If economists wished to study the horse, they wouldn't go and look at horses. They'd sit in their studies and say to themselves, "What would I do if I were a horse?" -- Ely Devons = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices as much as 20% to prop up sagging sales, where?s the $30K EV? A Chevy Bolt?
Tesla is reducing prices to crush the competition. The competition which is inferior and slightly less in price. In my opinion mostly bad choices. VW ID4 is the prime example. Software bugs and inferior performance. EUV and Bolt are much better. Tesla is still making money on the reduced price vehicles. Ford seems to be making money. GM not so sure. All the rest may be bankrupt. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230120/f7af2f47/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Why Tesla dropped prices below $55K and new EVs purchased prior to 2023
Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, your 2021 Tesla and 2020 GM Bolt purchases do not qualify. The new incentive lifts those old 200k vehicle caps, but only going forward from 2023 Jan 1st and later purchases... Since Tesla, GM, And Toyota exhausted their 200k vehicle limits for the old incentives, any vehicle that missed out on the rebate at their time of purchase still does not qualify, there are no retroactive clauses as far as I can tell. I would love to be proven wrong, but my interpretation aligns with what was shared here: https://youtu.be/isNQWpbVrI4 by Plug In America recently. On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 11:31 AM Mark E. Hanson via EV wrote: > Hi Folks, > > > > The new IRS EV form 8936 shows that to qualify for up to $7500 tax credit, > it needs to be below $55K. When I bought my Y in 2021 it was $55K, went up > and now back down to meet this requirement. > > > > It also appears that my Chevy Bolt (bought new in 2020) may also apply as > well as the Tesla Y since I didn't get *any* tax credit when I purchased > either vehicle (since sales were above 200K). > > > > SEE: > > https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qual > ified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2022-and-before > <https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/manufacturers-and-models-for-new-qualified-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2022-and-before> > > > > > > Have a renewable energy day, > > > > Mark > > > > Mark E. Hanson > > 184 Vista Lane > > Fincastle, VA 24090 > > 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell > > REEVA: community service RE & EV project club > > Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) > > UL Certified PV Installer > > My RE Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh > > REEVA Demo: <http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0> http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0 > > > < > https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/a88920376f864ecabaed843dd89 > 75b8d/signature > <https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/a88920376f864ecabaed843dd8975b8d/signature>> > Fincastle Solar Weather Station > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230119/cd635540/attachment.htm > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230120/65d0f21e/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] Tesla slashes its car prices for those who can appreciate their ability to do so.
Maybe I worded that poorly, perhaps what I should have said was more along the lines of: There is no standing contract with the general public to supply Tesla vehicles for $35k or $30k or some other imagined "affordable" MSRP cut off point. There have in fact been times in the past when Tesla did sell an off menu model 3 for under $35k, I believe. Perhaps this is what Bobby was able to buy? Point is, complaints that "Tesla isn't making that cheap BEV they promised" are missing the big picture, which is that there likely wouldn't be any BEVs for sale from any OEMs were it not for Tesla forcing them into this market. The Nissan Leaf was a great BEV for it's time, but it was never going to strike the passion of those looking for the quickest, the safest, the best global charging network, the unending over the air software improvements, the real time optimization of design within each model class. Just because people have options for purchasing OEM BEVs with warranties today by no means eliminates the desire of those at this list to hand craft our own electrified creations. Just like there will always be people who love to wrench on engines, heck I would still enjoy working on an ICE if I had the inkling to need to. Maybe I over reacted to the OP (Original Post) which in a single sentence managed to personally denigrate Elon alone for both lowering prices and simultaneously not lowering them enough. And also incorrectly claiming that the likes of the Bolt, Kia, and Hyundai are competitors. The fact of the matter is that ICE cars are the only competition, and that there are those able to fill all price points is good for everyone. I don't expect Porsche to build all the worlds pickup trucks, and so to expect Tesla to single-handedly satisfy all BEV price points is equally absurd. For anyone who noticed I changed the subject line, again: You may appreciate this video from SMR of Solving the Money Problem Be warned, SMR is a Hyper-Bull, wears his bias on his sleeve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JD1ftXYrWM=8m20s 8:20 Analysis: Tesla uses its profits as a weapon in an EV price war Cite: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-uses-its-profits-weapon-an-ev-price-war-2023-01-19/ On 1/18/2023 4:23 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV wrote: Ryan Fulcher said “I've yet to see any contract that anyone has... ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
