Re: [EVDL] NYT: Nikola founder sentenced
The moral of this story is to get good and rich before your lies catch up to you. Just ask Elon. Nothing he says is ever even remotely the truth and he's got a habit of vastly inflating his company's value with extravagant, false claims. Still walks around a free man? Why? Money talks and BS walks. On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 10:18 AM Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > >- A judge sentenced the founder of Nikola, an electric truck start-up, > to four years in prison for inflating his company’s value with extravagant, > false claims. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231219/8ed573a4/attachment.htm > > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231219/103a8f34/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
On 19 Dec 2023 at 13:13, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: > Did they adjust for miles driven? This seems to be based on insurance claims and/or accident reports, so probably not. On 19 Dec 2023 at 13:23, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Of course Tesla vehicles are used *many* more miles (in long daily > commutes) than other vehicles, especially with gas so high in cost. Well ... maybe not. This article https://electrek.co/2023/12/19/tesla-drivers-have-highest-accident-rate- despite-autopilot-claim-lying/ or https://v.gd/HvpsjX says that Tesla owners drive fewer miles per year than the US average - about 10k vs 12k. I agree that it would be interesting to correct for miles driven. But there are other factors to consider and adjust for. How about age? Some of the vehicles with the lowest accident rates are makes which tend to have older owners - Lincoln, Buick, Cadillac, Mercury. Well then, how old? Older people are normally more cautious and stable drivers, but after a certain point their reaction time goes down and their vision dims. Also, older folks normally drive less. And Tesla drivers are younger than those in other makes (link below). So it's complicated. What about sex? Tesla owners lean WAY toward the male side (again, link below). What about owner attitudes? There are stereotypes about BMW owners, for example. There's a Tesla sterotype too, and it's demographically supportable: https://www.themanual.com/auto/study-reveals-tesla-owner-demographics/ What if it turned out (I'm not saying that this is true, just spitballing here) that Tesla owners were more likely than others to have something in common with Elon Musk? By this I mean emotionally stunted, impulsive, angry, thoughless, antisocial. Those aren't qualities that make a safe driver. So again, it's complicated. There have to be reasons that Tesla drivers have more accidents than Toyota drivers. How many of them are the car, and how many the driver? I don't know. You? Regardless of the causes, it's an interesting statistic, not the least for what those kinds of numbers can do to your insurance rates. It's also not the kind of PR that Tesla needs right now. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Work-arounds to Linux systemd problems are so widely in use that when systemd developers try to fix the problems, they break Linux systems by breaking the work-arounds. Some systemd bugs are being used as features by enough distros and users that fixing bugs can cause widespread breakage. Systemd can't be fixed. -- Andy Prough = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
Yeah, we have two vehicles. The Tesla in my name and a Honda in my wife's name. Since we bought the Tesla, we do most of our driving in it. In the last year we have driven the Tesla almost 5x as many miles as the Honda. Kevin > On Dec 19, 2023, at 15:13, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: > > Did they adjust for miles driven? > > On 12/19/2023 12:55 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: >> Tesla is getting some rough PR lately. >> >> Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a >> remote reprogramming. >> >> Then this article landed yesterday: >> >> "Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree >> analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more >> accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents >> per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands >> with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand." >> > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
Number of accidents per driver per *brand*, really Without even compensating for miles driven? Or for model? That makes just barely more sense than me saying that I use 5 Amps per year. Of course Tesla vehicles are used *many* more miles (in long daily commutes) than other vehicles, especially with gas so high in cost. And of course, with the excessive acceleration, it is possible to drive it in a manner that it not always fit for circumstances, even if it is simply someone merging into another lane and not expecting the Tesla to suddenly be in that spot instead, because it "instantly" accelerated to be next to the merging driver... Or, as I have seen here in the Bay Area where it started raining heavily yesterday - some Tesla drivers still operate as if the road is dry, using their 4-wheel dual motor capabilities to the max while other drivers cautiously press the accelerator in their front wheel driven car, losing traction on the smooth crosswalk paint, to remind them to add safety margin to their driving. Heck, at least twice now have I felt my Leaf slide a little sideways when steering while passing a crosswalk. I fear that the few speeding Teslas (most did adapt to the conditions) when encountering an emergency (stop or evasive move) they will have no margin left and feel the consequence... Just like a musclecar might. Heck, I did spin out my BMW because I was not used to the combination of the power available and the rear wheel drive... Since most musclecars are part of a brand that has a lot of boring sedan sales, it does not show that the sports model might also have a problem, because it disappears in the minivan or sedan statistics. Subaru is loved by quite a group that likes to ralley and while they typically are experienced, there may be enough uninitiated or showing off that the whole (small) brand is affected. I know quite a number of Subarus that are souped up, but in contrast to other groups, they usually do not make their cars very loud, it is more distinguished public but having plenty power on tap anyway, so that may skew the statistics in the smaller total number here. Cor. Cor. On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 12:55 PM EV List Lackey via EV wrote: > > Tesla is getting some rough PR lately. > > Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a > remote reprogramming. > > Then this article landed yesterday: > > "Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree > analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more > accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents > per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands > with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand." > > Full article: > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest- > accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/ > > or https://v.gd/y2FFnb > > Forbes is pretty careful to not speculate on why. But you can bet that many > people outside the Musk-o-verse will say "it's because of Autopilot," while > Musket-heads will be more apt to say "not enough owners using Autopilot." > > Eh, I'm staying out of it. > > What I wonder about, and WILL mention, is something that the original source > sort of takes a whack at and glances off of. > > Teslas tend to be powerful vehicles. I don't know whether I can say too > much about this since I don't own one and have never driven one, but I do > know that while ludicrous (Tesla's own word) acceleration can sometimes get > you out of trouble fast, it can also get you INTO trouble really fast. > Especially if you're young and hormone-addled, and/or drunk or high, and/or > just not that skilled a driver. > > Somehow I strongly doubt that any Tesla software update is going to change > that part of the vehicles' behavior. > > Also, off topic - Ram, yeah, I can see that - but Subaru??? Really? > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > In America, anybody can be president. That's one of the risks > you take. > > -- Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965) > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
I can tell you that around the Los Angeles area, the percentage of Tesla drivers that are driving like total assholes is quite high compared to most other brands that have large numbers of cars on the road. Just my observation. Jim Walls -Original Message- From: "EV List Lackey via EV" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2023 12:55 To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "EV List Lackey" Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla Tesla is getting some rough PR lately. Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a remote reprogramming. Then this article landed yesterday: "Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand." Full article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest- accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/ or https://v.gd/y2FFnb Forbes is pretty careful to not speculate on why. But you can bet that many people outside the Musk-o-verse will say "it's because of Autopilot," while Musket-heads will be more apt to say "not enough owners using Autopilot." Eh, I'm staying out of it. What I wonder about, and WILL mention, is something that the original source sort of takes a whack at and glances off of. Teslas tend to be powerful vehicles. I don't know whether I can say too much about this since I don't own one and have never driven one, but I do know that while ludicrous (Tesla's own word) acceleration can sometimes get you out of trouble fast, it can also get you INTO trouble really fast. Especially if you're young and hormone-addled, and/or drunk or high, and/or just not that skilled a driver. Somehow I strongly doubt that any Tesla software update is going to change that part of the vehicles' behavior. Also, off topic - Ram, yeah, I can see that - but Subaru??? Really? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = In America, anybody can be president. That's one of the risks you take. -- Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
Did they adjust for miles driven? On 12/19/2023 12:55 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote: Tesla is getting some rough PR lately. Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a remote reprogramming. Then this article landed yesterday: "Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand." ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] EVLN: More bad PR for Tesla
Tesla is getting some rough PR lately. Obviously, there's the "every vehicle" recall that isn't, but is really a remote reprogramming. Then this article landed yesterday: "Tesla drivers are the most accident-prone, according to a LendingTree analysis of 30 car brands. It found that Tesla drivers are involved in more accidents than drivers of any other brand. Tesla drivers had 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers. Ram (22.76) and Subaru (20.90) were the only other brands with more than 20 accidents per 1,000 drivers for every brand." Full article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebanker/2023/12/18/tesla-has-the-highest- accident-rate-of-any-auto-brand/ or https://v.gd/y2FFnb Forbes is pretty careful to not speculate on why. But you can bet that many people outside the Musk-o-verse will say "it's because of Autopilot," while Musket-heads will be more apt to say "not enough owners using Autopilot." Eh, I'm staying out of it. What I wonder about, and WILL mention, is something that the original source sort of takes a whack at and glances off of. Teslas tend to be powerful vehicles. I don't know whether I can say too much about this since I don't own one and have never driven one, but I do know that while ludicrous (Tesla's own word) acceleration can sometimes get you out of trouble fast, it can also get you INTO trouble really fast. Especially if you're young and hormone-addled, and/or drunk or high, and/or just not that skilled a driver. Somehow I strongly doubt that any Tesla software update is going to change that part of the vehicles' behavior. Also, off topic - Ram, yeah, I can see that - but Subaru??? Really? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = In America, anybody can be president. That's one of the risks you take. -- Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Mudroom disassembled batteries and motor available.
Lawrence, the videos you linked are about roof decks and composting toilets? Also, what is a Mudroom battery? On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 9:22 AM Lawrence Rhodes wrote: > https://youtu.be/K3Zp1EzxTkM?si=EvNph9icXPhLnj8g Mudworm in action. > Batteries only have a few cycles. Motor can be water cooled. Available in > San Francisco contact Milan. milan.petren...@gmail.com Ebay listings: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/285365015234?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=YhdxzJnbSwW=4429486=YhdxzJnbSwW=_ver=artemis=SMS > > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/285604410193?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=YhdxzJnbSwW=4429486=YhdxzJnbSwW=_ver=artemis=SMS > more video: https://youtu.be/nFS1XjROVyE?si=x7-a3ggTjJh > _._,_._,_ > -- > Groups.io Links: > > You receive all messages sent to this group. > > View/Reply Online (#2770) <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/message/2770> | Reply > To Group > > | Reply To Sender > > | Mute This Topic <https://groups.io/mt/103266420/2384446> | New Topic > <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/post> > Your Subscription <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/editsub/2384446> | Contact > Group Owner | Unsubscribe > <https://groups.io/g/GGEVA/leave/4855485/2384446/1451429038/xyzzy> [ > p...@ingineerix.com] > _._,_._,_ > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231219/cff25a71/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] Mudroom disassembled batteries and motor available.
https://youtu.be/K3Zp1EzxTkM?si=EvNph9icXPhLnj8g Mudworm in action. Batteries only have a few cycles. Motor can be water cooled. Available in San Francisco contact Milan. milan.petren...@gmail.com Ebay listings: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285365015234?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=YhdxzJnbSwW=4429486=YhdxzJnbSwW=_ver=artemis=SMS https://www.ebay.com/itm/285604410193?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=YhdxzJnbSwW=4429486=YhdxzJnbSwW=_ver=artemis=SMS more video: https://youtu.be/nFS1XjROVyE?si=x7-a3ggTjJh -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231219/3e81684c/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
[EVDL] NYT: Nikola founder sentenced
- A judge sentenced the founder of Nikola, an electric truck start-up, to four years in prison for inflating his company’s value with extravagant, false claims. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20231219/8ed573a4/attachment.htm> ___ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
