Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[Lee Hart via EV]

Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I took it 
to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to replace for 
$500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year (surprise ) the 
problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the regen when it gets below 
26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates 100s of amps load, going through 
other way shouldn’t matter.


Hi Mark,

I also have a 2013 Leaf, and even in sub-zero weather have not noticed a 
loss of regen. It does have the battery heater, but it doesn't seem to 
come on until the temp is below zero.


But battery performance is definitely impacted by cold. The range is 
about half as much, and it takes much longer to charge.


Lee

--
Scientists investigate that which already is. Engineers create that
which has never been. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Tesla recently added a feature that will fill in for lost regen using the
friction brakes.  (say if BMS is limiting regen)   Most cars with electric
brake boosters should be capable of this, but it's a shame most other car
manufacturers never update software on a car once it leaves the showroom.
(unless there is a problem or recall)

https://electrek.co/2022/05/25/tesla-updates-car-software-regular-brakes-regenerative-limited/


On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:50 PM Mark Hanson  wrote:

> Thanks Phil for your informative reply. It sounds like the Leaf software
> turns on and off intermittently when around the set point , which makes
> braking a bit disconcerting.  The Tesla and the Bolt just seem to turn off
> like a Schmidt trigger with some hysteresis , not flutter around a cold set
> point like the Leaf does.
> Stay Charged,
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 19, 2023, at 6:43 PM, (-Phil-)  wrote:
>
> 
> Most Lithium chemistries will be destroyed if charged below freezing due
> to plating of the anode with metallic lithium, so the BMS will not allow
> charge, even though discharge is fine.   You have to heat the pack to allow
> charging, this is why all EV batteries have some way to heat the pack if
> they will be used in cold climates.
>
> If your pack is not too cold, you might be able to warm it up enough just
> by drawing current from it.
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 3:26 PM Mark Hanson via EV 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks
>> Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I
>> took it to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to
>> replace for $500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year
>> (surprise ) the problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the
>> regen when it gets below 26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates
>> 100s of amps load, going through other way shouldn’t matter.
>> Best regards
>> Mark
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[Mark Hanson via EV]

Thanks Phil for your informative reply. It sounds like the Leaf software turns 
on and off intermittently when around the set point , which makes braking a bit 
disconcerting.  The Tesla and the Bolt just seem to turn off like a Schmidt 
trigger with some hysteresis , not flutter around a cold set point like the 
Leaf does. 
Stay Charged,
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 19, 2023, at 6:43 PM, (-Phil-)  wrote:


Most Lithium chemistries will be destroyed if charged below freezing due to 
plating of the anode with metallic lithium, so the BMS will not allow charge, 
even though discharge is fine.   You have to heat the pack to allow charging, 
this is why all EV batteries have some way to heat the pack if they will be 
used in cold climates. 

If your pack is not too cold, you might be able to warm it up enough just by 
drawing current from it.

On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 3:26 PM Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> Hi Folks
> Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I took 
> it to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to 
> replace for $500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year 
> (surprise ) the problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the regen 
> when it gets below 26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates 100s of 
> amps load, going through other way shouldn’t matter.  
> Best regards 
> Mark 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[(-Phil-) via EV]

To Jay's point, some Leafs have battery heaters, some don't.  I know in my
2011 it didn't because I didn't have the "cold weather" package which came
with seat and steering wheel heaters.

If you do have a battery heater then yes, you'd want to time your charging
so it completes as close as possible to your departure time, so the battery
will still be warm from charging.

On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 3:46 PM Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

> Regen can sometimes be limited to protect the battery. (For example,
> when the battery is fully charged so shouldn't be accepting more charge,
> when it is very cold (so shouldn't be charged),etc...
>
> [Also, I believe as the battery ages, at some point (8 capacity bars?)
> regen is limited or cut off just because the battery health has gotten
> low (total capacity is lower, so they worry about putting as many amps
> into the battery)]
>
> You might be running into a combination of cold and battery capacity
> that disables the regen temporarily until the battery temp gets warm
> enough to go over whatever threshold is set in the BMS.
>
> [People don't usually notice the cold weather charging limit, because a
> lot of the time they charge immediately after driving, which warms up
> the battery but if you plug in the car when the battery is too cold,
> it will (only) run the battery heater until the cells warm up enough to
> be charged...]
>
>
> Jay
>
> On 3/19/23 18:25, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:
> > Hi Folks
> > Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I
> took it to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to
> replace for $500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year
> (surprise ) the problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the
> regen when it gets below 26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates
> 100s of amps load, going through other way shouldn’t matter.
> > Best regards
> > Mark
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[Jay Summet via EV]

Regen can sometimes be limited to protect the battery. (For example, 
when the battery is fully charged so shouldn't be accepting more charge, 
when it is very cold (so shouldn't be charged),etc...


[Also, I believe as the battery ages, at some point (8 capacity bars?) 
regen is limited or cut off just because the battery health has gotten 
low (total capacity is lower, so they worry about putting as many amps 
into the battery)]


You might be running into a combination of cold and battery capacity 
that disables the regen temporarily until the battery temp gets warm 
enough to go over whatever threshold is set in the BMS.


[People don't usually notice the cold weather charging limit, because a 
lot of the time they charge immediately after driving, which warms up 
the battery but if you plug in the car when the battery is too cold, 
it will (only) run the battery heater until the cells warm up enough to 
be charged...]



Jay

On 3/19/23 18:25, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Folks
Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I took it 
to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to replace for 
$500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year (surprise ) the 
problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the regen when it gets below 
26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates 100s of amps load, going through 
other way shouldn’t matter.
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[(-Phil-) via EV]

Most Lithium chemistries will be destroyed if charged below freezing due to
plating of the anode with metallic lithium, so the BMS will not allow
charge, even though discharge is fine.   You have to heat the pack to allow
charging, this is why all EV batteries have some way to heat the pack if
they will be used in cold climates.

If your pack is not too cold, you might be able to warm it up enough just
by drawing current from it.

On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 3:26 PM Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

> Hi Folks
> Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I
> took it to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to
> replace for $500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year
> (surprise ) the problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the
> regen when it gets below 26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates
> 100s of amps load, going through other way shouldn’t matter.
> Best regards
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>
>
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[EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[Mark Hanson via EV]

Hi Folks
Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I took it 
to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to replace for 
$500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year (surprise ) the 
problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the regen when it gets below 
26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates 100s of amps load, going through 
other way shouldn’t matter.  
Best regards 
Mark 

Sent from my iPhone
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[EVDL] 2013 leaf

[redscooter via EV]

 
the gen 2 24 kw  battery   came outpart way thru then year of 2013
with the different chemistry? 

how much longer wiil the gen2 vs gen 1?one is more time related and
the other more miles related ?

does the 2013 still have the water heating system even with the heat pump
?

did the poor contacts in the water heater get fixed ?


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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.& retractable cord

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

> Cool! I like all your charts about charging as well. Can I steal your work
> to present at the office?

Sure.  Did y ou also find the one http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html

And the one about L1 charging:
http://aprs.org/EV-charging-everywhere.html

>>> I [made] a shallow box [for the ] EVSE [under the hood]...

>> Then connect it to a homebrew set of J1772 pins
>> plugged into the charging port and to a pull out...cord,
>> and we have the ultimate in L1 charging.  Just llike plugging in a vacuum
>> cleaner.

See how I did it:
http://aprs.org/charging-DIY.html

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.& retractable cord

[dovepa via EV]

Cool! I like all your charts about charging as well. Can I steal your work to 
present at the office?




Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Robert Bruninga via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> Date: 1/13/2016  9:29 
PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.& retractable cord 
>
> > I [made] a shallow box [for the ] EVSE [under the hood]...


Then connect it to a homebrew set of J1772 pins plugged into the charging
port and to a pull out retractable cord, and we have the ultimate in L1
charging.  Just llike plugging in a vacuum cleaner.

See how I did it:
http://aprs.org/charging-DIY.html

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Sounds like a great idea !  I may do it, too.

I think I can give you an answer why Nissan didn't put the 120v ESVE 
under the hood.  If a lay customer has to open the hood, it may make him 
feel like the car is broken.  Why else does a non motor head open the 
hood?


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>; "ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org" 
<ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org>

Sent: 13-Jan-16 6:41:02 PM
Subject: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.

I folded and taped together a corrugated plastic sheet to make a 
shallow box to protect the EVSE from the battery posts.  Wonder why 
Nissan didn't make that the place for the EVSE.  Saves space in the 
trunk.  Lawrence Rhodes

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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.& retractable cord

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>
> > I [made] a shallow box [for the ] EVSE [under the hood]...


Then connect it to a homebrew set of J1772 pins plugged into the charging
port and to a pull out retractable cord, and we have the ultimate in L1
charging.  Just llike plugging in a vacuum cleaner.

See how I did it:
http://aprs.org/charging-DIY.html

Bob, WB4APR
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[EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 120v EVSE under hood.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I folded and taped together a corrugated plastic sheet to make a shallow box to 
protect the EVSE from the battery posts.  Wonder why Nissan didn't make that 
the place for the EVSE.  Saves space in the trunk.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 2,600 original miles.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

S model with q charge and 6.6 charger.  No cruise control.  Only flaw is the 
curbed hub caps.  Lawrence Rhodes










? What model leaf- s, sv or sl? Why so low mileage?

I picked up a used out-of-lease 2012 leaf sl with 12k miles for $10.5k plus tax 
and license 3 months ago, with 3.5kwh and fast charge. Found out it had a fault 
in power steering that drains the 12v in about a week, after daily bldriving 
for 3 weeks. Ended up with $2k service since out of warrantee (3 years limit).

Hope you do better.
Ed Thorpe
On Dec 26, 2015 5:39 PM, "Lawrence Rhodes via EV"  wrote:


I got a used Leaf for 14k 0 down & 0% for 60 months. First payment & money out 
of pocket is in February.  It is pristine.  Did I do good?  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 2,600 original miles.

[Tom Keenan via EV]

Sounds like a great deal - congratulations!

Tom Keenan

> On Dec 26, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> I got a used Leaf for 14k 0 down & 0% for 60 months. First payment & money 
> out of pocket is in February.  It is pristine.  Did I do good?  Lawrence 
> Rhodes  
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