Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Mr. Sharkey via EV]

> In fact we do have a forum gateway, as a feature of the
> archive ... It's a bit clunky, but I'm working on that.

Yeah, Ya think? I use the Nabble archive exclusively to view 
messages. Some years ago, the formatting changed so that it's no 
longer possible to see who posted which message, who the thread 
starter was, etc, etc. Because I run with javascript off, I can't see 
what the posting dates are, and 100% of the email addresses are 
obscured because I've never plumbed the depths of getting the Nabble 
log-in puzzle figured out. And that guy whose photo doesn't show on 
the left side of the page sure has a lot of posts...


How come Bruce was able to get ~his~ username to show up?

Now another (not EVDL related) problem has popped up, which is that 
none of my email accounts any longer allow message relaying, which 
means I have to send from the Juno account, and they append multiple 
stupid news article links onto each message I post (sorry). Is it 
actually possible to post to the mailing list through the Nabble 
archive if getting logged in is solved?


I've largely given up on all of these issues. Reading the EVDL 
archive is like divining tea leaves or reading the back pages of 
Pravda in an attempt to figure out who is getting their back up about 
which topic, when. None of that is going to attract new users, many 
if not most of all of whom are going to be using mobile devices.


I appreciate what you do here, David, It could be a lot easier to use 
and be more full-featured, but I always assume that people like me 
who prefer the web-based forum format are a small minority. I help 
administer a mailing list of renewable energy installers, and they 
won't even discuss using a forum interface, they love the mailing 
lists. Far be it from me to try and change tradition, I have more 
pressing things to take care of around the homestead.



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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 20 Jan 2021 at 17:59, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> I wonder if there's anything we can do to increase awareness of EVDL. 

Well, I suppose that some of the folks here who do (anti-)social media could 
mention it there, maybe by quoting from our discussions.  I wonder what kind 
of new members we might get from that.

I'm generally disinclined to do much promotion.  Hey, we have a website. 
What more do you want? :-)

I don't really hold with the standard corporate "grow or die" principle.  To 
be crunchy granola about it, services like this one grow and shrink 
organically with natural demand.  There's more demand for EV info than there 
was 20 years ago, but there are also more other sources.  

We're the one that uses email.  If you like email and/or don't like being 
tracked and spied on by big corporations, well, here we are.  I kind of feel 
like Buddhists do about their religion - when you're ready for us, you'll 
find us.  :-)  

I'm willing to listen to discussion about this, however.

> bet there are others that are like me: want to know about leading edge 
> activity and technical issues even though they (I) don't plan on doing 
> any EV tinkering personally.

Isn't that what the various EV news websites are supposed to do?   I mean 
Green Car Reports, Inside EVs, Clean Technica, Electrek, Future Car, and so 
on.  

Or maybe they're too focused on "Ooh, it's been restyled to look just like 
every other car on the road, and look at those exciting 19 inch wheels!"  
Pah.

> 
> Also, maybe a different basis for the forum. I like email but a lot of 
> people prefer other formats.

I'm getting some deja vu here. :-)  Back in the day, that was one of the 
EVDL topics that resurfaced often, along with AC vs DC drives, flooded vs 
AGM lead, and fast-short-range vs slow-long-range.  It always generated lots 
of discussion.

After 2008 when gasoline prices broke $4 a gallon in the US, we had a flurry 
of new memberships.  A lot of them would post a couple of initial questions 
and then inevitably we got, "Hey, how come y'all don't make this into 
something modern, like a forum?" - presumbly not realizing that forums are a 
webification of dialup BBSes from the 1980s. :-)

In fact we do have a forum gateway, as a feature of the archive.  It's aimed 
at casual and occasional users, and those who for whatever reason don't like 
email.  It's a bit clunky, but I'm working on that.   

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 It is well known (Potts, 2014; Catcher, 2014) that the internet
 is made of cats. The net is a series of tubes (Stevens, 2006) 
 through which cats carry information in packets (Butterworth, 
 2011). The failure modes have been less well studied. Several 
 exist, but to date the most researched are fracture, disjunc-
 tion, and joule-based disruption. FRACTURE causes complete 
 regional internet failure. It occurs when construction or other 
 human activity severs or collapses an underground tunnel through 
 which the cats travel. The symptom of DISJUNCTION is high lat-
 ency; the usual cause is hooligans placing containers of tuna or 
 cream at tunnel junctions. Data corruption results from JOULE-
 BASED DISRUPTION, caused by the static charge that accumulates
 as long-haired cats speed through the tunnels. This shocks the 
 cats, who drop their packets.

  -- Lolapin (2020)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Thanks. I like numbers.

I wonder if there's anything we can do to increase awareness of EVDL. I 
bet there are others that are like me: want to know about leading edge 
activity and technical issues even though they (I) don't plan on doing 
any EV tinkering personally.


Also, maybe a different basis for the forum. I like email but a lot of 
people prefer other formats.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "EVDL Administrator" 
Sent: 20-Jan-21 10:50:56 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home


On 19 Jan 2021 at 7:30, Willie via EV wrote:


 EVDL seems to be on it's last legs


Nope.

Our traffic did take a big hit in 2012, falling by about half.  I think that
was mostly down to the Nissan Leaf and Tesla S.  They and their production
EV bretheren have pretty well buried hobbyist EVs, which were the list's
bread and butter for a long time.  The dedicated forums for them have
probably drawn discussion away from here.

I think that the rise of smartphones and the decline of email (and privacy)
were additional factors.  (Anti-)social media too.  The EVDL used to be the
only game in town for EV info.  Not any more, and that's mostly a good
thing, though I personally avoid Fakebook and the like, mostly for privacy
reasons.

So, in case you care, by the numbers:

In 2016 EVDL traffic stabilized at something over 1/3 of the 2010 numbers.
Since then it's been quite consistent at around 3600 posts per year.
Bruce's posts were just under 1/3 of the total last year, so despite the
slow January so far, I expect between 2000 and 2400 posts in 2021.

That's not peanuts.  For comparison, last year the Elec-Trak list attracted
119 posts, and the C-Car list 320, and nobody said they were on their last
legs.  I know, those lists are dedicated to specialized EVs, but still ...

EVDL membership peaked after the big fuel price runups in 2007 and early
2008, then fell back as prices did.  It's been stable at around 650
subscribers for the last few years.  A lot of them are life-long EVers, so
if you young whippersnappers are looking for EV wisdom, this is the place to
get it.

The EVDL will also always win in mission.  It's here to support EVs and EV
owners, not advertisers and a big well-paid staff.  Also in usability; it'll
never nag you to update your browser or install an app.  It won't dog your
computer with hidden scripts, crash your browser, shove ads in your face,
radicalize you, track you, or "monetize" (sell) your personal data.

I think that's worth sustaining.  It won't be going away.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 The telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat.  You pull
 his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles.
 Radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here,
 they receive them there.  The only difference is that there
 is no cat.

  -- Albert Einstein
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 19 Jan 2021 at 7:30, Willie via EV wrote:

> EVDL seems to be on it's last legs

Nope.

Our traffic did take a big hit in 2012, falling by about half.  I think that 
was mostly down to the Nissan Leaf and Tesla S.  They and their production 
EV bretheren have pretty well buried hobbyist EVs, which were the list's 
bread and butter for a long time.  The dedicated forums for them have 
probably drawn discussion away from here.  

I think that the rise of smartphones and the decline of email (and privacy) 
were additional factors.  (Anti-)social media too.  The EVDL used to be the 
only game in town for EV info.  Not any more, and that's mostly a good 
thing, though I personally avoid Fakebook and the like, mostly for privacy 
reasons.

So, in case you care, by the numbers: 

In 2016 EVDL traffic stabilized at something over 1/3 of the 2010 numbers. 
Since then it's been quite consistent at around 3600 posts per year.  
Bruce's posts were just under 1/3 of the total last year, so despite the 
slow January so far, I expect between 2000 and 2400 posts in 2021.  

That's not peanuts.  For comparison, last year the Elec-Trak list attracted 
119 posts, and the C-Car list 320, and nobody said they were on their last 
legs.  I know, those lists are dedicated to specialized EVs, but still ...

EVDL membership peaked after the big fuel price runups in 2007 and early 
2008, then fell back as prices did.  It's been stable at around 650 
subscribers for the last few years.  A lot of them are life-long EVers, so 
if you young whippersnappers are looking for EV wisdom, this is the place to 
get it. 

The EVDL will also always win in mission.  It's here to support EVs and EV 
owners, not advertisers and a big well-paid staff.  Also in usability; it'll 
never nag you to update your browser or install an app.  It won't dog your 
computer with hidden scripts, crash your browser, shove ads in your face, 
radicalize you, track you, or "monetize" (sell) your personal data.  

I think that's worth sustaining.  It won't be going away.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 The telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat.  You pull 
 his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles.  
 Radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, 
 they receive them there.  The only difference is that there 
 is no cat.

  -- Albert Einstein
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Willie via EV]

On 1/19/21 1:24 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote:

  Regarding QuantumScape, interesting article by the leading design engineer of 
the Roadster battery 
pack.https://silanano.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-Future-of-Energy-Storage.pdf


A GREAT read!  Thanks for posting!

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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

;-)

Maybe I meant *my* posts!

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV  wrote:
> 
> > In any case, I expect the general content of posts here to improve.
> 
> Sorry, I'll try harder in the future...
> 
> 
> Sponsored by 
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> 
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> Stolen Copy of World's Most Expensive Painting Is Found
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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Mr. Sharkey via EV]

> In any case, I expect the general content of posts here to improve.

Sorry, I'll try harder in the future...


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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I would agree with you about the continuing relevance of this list.

I remain interested and enthused over the many great DIY projects by people on 
this list.  I have referred others to it.

As far as Bruce’s posts, I wish him luck.  I’ve usually found the posts 
interesting and useful, and even passed some onto key decision-makers that I’ve 
worked with where relevant.

That being said, I’ve noticed over time, that the signal to noise ratio of 
those posts have significantly declined, even with the increased activity in 
the field. That, coupled with a tendency to misstate or mischaracterize the 
actual content of the articles posted, have sent me to other places to keep up 
to date on news.

In any case, I expect the general content of posts here to improve.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Mr. Sharkey via EV  wrote:
> 
> Best of luck to Bruce in his new enterprise. Apparently, he considers that 
> the tag EVLN is personal property, which was the reason for his departure 
> here.
> 
> Back in 2016, Bruce decided to "spend a whole day" writing up an archive of 
> some of the pages from my now defunct web site. I wrote him a very polite 
> message asking that he include something attributing the information 
> contained in the page to me, as I considered it to be my own intellectual 
> property.
> 
> His reaction was unexpectedly vitriolic, telling me "Since you have some 
> issues, I decided to start out fresh, deleting all references to you, your 
> page, and anything else"
> 
> All I had asked was to be acknowledged as the author of the information.
> 
> Interesting how some things run in circles.
> 
> As for DIY  EV, it's a busy place, but it's also maintained as a profit 
> making venture, with lots of adverts, analytics, javascript, etc. You can't 
> search it without being signed up. Haven't spent much time there for years.
> 
> EVDL may be slowing down, but it's still useful to me.
> 
> 
> Sponsored by 
> https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part_medium=uol_campaign=rss_taglines_more
> 
> Stolen Copy of World's Most Expensive Painting Is Found
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e4bfd492640c1st04vuc1
> Biden's Pick for Big HHS Role a Historic First
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e6ec3d92640c1st04vuc2
> Son of Supermodel, Billionaire Dead at 24
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e9167c92640c1st04vuc3
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> 

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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Regarding QuantumScape, interesting article by the leading design engineer of 
the Roadster battery 
pack.https://silanano.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-Future-of-Energy-Storage.pdf

 
This ex Tesla battery pack guru ,Gene Berdichevsky, says solidstate batteries 
are a pipe dream. 

 Gene Berdichevsky is the Co-Founder & CEO of SilaNanotechnologies. Prior to 
co-founding Sila,

Gene was the seventh employee at Tesla Motors where heserved as Principal 
Engineer on the Roadster

battery,leading the development of the world’s first, safe, mass-produced, 
automotiveLi-ion battery system.

 

Page20 of his white paper talks about solid state batteries…

https://silanano.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-Future-of-Energy-Storage.pdf

 

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021, 02:14:49 PM EST, Mr. Sharkey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Best of luck to Bruce in his new enterprise. Apparently, he considers 
that the tag EVLN is personal property, which was the reason for his 
departure here.

Back in 2016, Bruce decided to "spend a whole day" writing up an 
archive of some of the pages from my now defunct web site. I wrote 
him a very polite message asking that he include something 
attributing the information contained in the page to me, as I 
considered it to be my own intellectual property.

His reaction was unexpectedly vitriolic, telling me "Since you have 
some issues, I decided to start out fresh, deleting all references to 
you, your page, and anything else"

All I had asked was to be acknowledged as the author of the information.

Interesting how some things run in circles.

As for DIY  EV, it's a busy place, but it's also maintained as a 
profit making venture, with lots of adverts, analytics, javascript, 
etc. You can't search it without being signed up. Haven't spent much 
time there for years.

EVDL may be slowing down, but it's still useful to me.


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https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part_medium=uol_campaign=rss_taglines_more

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Son of Supermodel, Billionaire Dead at 24
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e9167c92640c1st04vuc3
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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Mr. Sharkey via EV]

Best of luck to Bruce in his new enterprise. Apparently, he considers 
that the tag EVLN is personal property, which was the reason for his 
departure here.


Back in 2016, Bruce decided to "spend a whole day" writing up an 
archive of some of the pages from my now defunct web site. I wrote 
him a very polite message asking that he include something 
attributing the information contained in the page to me, as I 
considered it to be my own intellectual property.


His reaction was unexpectedly vitriolic, telling me "Since you have 
some issues, I decided to start out fresh, deleting all references to 
you, your page, and anything else"


All I had asked was to be acknowledged as the author of the information.

Interesting how some things run in circles.

As for DIY  EV, it's a busy place, but it's also maintained as a 
profit making venture, with lots of adverts, analytics, javascript, 
etc. You can't search it without being signed up. Haven't spent much 
time there for years.


EVDL may be slowing down, but it's still useful to me.


Sponsored by 
https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part_medium=uol_campaign=rss_taglines_more

Stolen Copy of World's Most Expensive Painting Is Found
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e4bfd492640c1st04vuc1
Biden's Pick for Big HHS Role a Historic First
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e6ec3d92640c1st04vuc2
Son of Supermodel, Billionaire Dead at 24
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e9167c92640c1st04vuc3
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[EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Willie via EV]

Bruce has started a googlegroup to archive his news posts:
https://groups.google.com/g/evln

He is also posting weekly links back to EVLN on DIYElectricCar forum:
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/ev-news.6/

I congratulate Bruce on both the very clean presentation and reaching a 
much wider audience.  I regret that Bruce felt the need to leave EVDL. 
Also that EVDL seems to be on it's last legs; I appreciate the historic 
significance of EVDL.


I have encouraged Bruce to post the weekly DIYElectricCar type links 
here but he has refused.


My only objection to the new setup is that I am not automatically 
prompted to check in to find whatever EV news I may have missed from 
other regular sources.  A good example of that missed news is the recent 
QuantumScape story.

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