Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Exactly,
Where can you find a sophisticated EV for $5k and with a $3k as-new
battery pack get a low mileage car with excellent range for much less
than you can convert a car, let alone buy a recent model car to convert?
And as for using Leaf packs in my truck - again, available capacity and
ease of integration (BMS is included) for the lowest cost made the Leaf
pack a winner - I know there are better batteries. Just like I did this
same truck with lead-acid 11 years ago and now use Leaf cells, I will
probably use something else next time. For now, Leaf cells are good
enough, the two packs that I have will give me close to 100 miles of
range. It is not often that I want to go that far and when I do, I like
to be more comfortable than in a 22 year old truck and usually I go a
lot further than 100 miles on those occasions.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of lektwik via EV
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:26 PM
To: tomw; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

I am thinking the wide availability of the Leaf packs at a reasonable
cost
from local wrecking yards is a major driver. Plus. Wrecking yards
usually
will deliver it for free :-)


On Friday, December 23, 2016, tomw via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> May I ask why the two of you (John, Cor) decided to use Leaf packs
rather
> than Volt packs?  The spinel chemistry used in Leaf batteries is known
to
> be
> inferior to the NMC chemistry which I think is used in Volt packs, and
the
> Volt packs have liquid temperature control to further improve
longevity. On
> the other hand, the Leaf modules seem to be much easier to work with
if you
> want to make a custom pack, say by combining the basic 2s2p modules in
> parallel to make higher Ah modules, or to fit an existing battery box
in a
> conversion.
>
> Then there are also Tesla S modules available which seem to be the
best
> chemistry for longevity and the highest energy density.  Some are
concerned
> with the safety of these higher energy density cells, but the Tesla
packs
> seem very well designed for safety with each cell fused on both anode
and
> cathode, and my understanding is you have access to the bms wires from
each
> module so can straight-forwardly connect a bms to them.
>
> Just wondering what drove your decision.  I've toyed with the idea of
using
> one of the above in my conversion for a couple years now, but my
LiFePO4
> pack, though 7 years old, is still doing fine so I'm reticent to spend
more
> money on batteries, and I'd kind of like to see how long it lasts
before
> significant degradation.  I lean more toward Tesla modules since I
could
> double my pack size and have a bit LESS weight, and I think with
proper
> care
> in the implementation, packaging, and operation (bms) they would be
safe.
>
> I also prefer liquid cooling since I think the end of life of my cells
will
> be caused by creeping up internal resistance, not capacity loss.  We
get
> fairly high temperatures here in July and August (~100F, sometimes
above)
> so
> the higher internal resistance will result in more pack heating and
pack
> temperatures exceeding the ~40C (104F) limit above which it seems that
> greater deterioration occurs. I've exceeded that a few times, and
expect it
> will get more frequent as ir creeps up.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-
> discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-battery-pack-
> connector-tp4684927p4685015.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[lektwik via EV]

I am thinking the wide availability of the Leaf packs at a reasonable cost
from local wrecking yards is a major driver. Plus. Wrecking yards usually
will deliver it for free :-)


On Friday, December 23, 2016, tomw via EV  wrote:

> May I ask why the two of you (John, Cor) decided to use Leaf packs rather
> than Volt packs?  The spinel chemistry used in Leaf batteries is known to
> be
> inferior to the NMC chemistry which I think is used in Volt packs, and the
> Volt packs have liquid temperature control to further improve longevity. On
> the other hand, the Leaf modules seem to be much easier to work with if you
> want to make a custom pack, say by combining the basic 2s2p modules in
> parallel to make higher Ah modules, or to fit an existing battery box in a
> conversion.
>
> Then there are also Tesla S modules available which seem to be the best
> chemistry for longevity and the highest energy density.  Some are concerned
> with the safety of these higher energy density cells, but the Tesla packs
> seem very well designed for safety with each cell fused on both anode and
> cathode, and my understanding is you have access to the bms wires from each
> module so can straight-forwardly connect a bms to them.
>
> Just wondering what drove your decision.  I've toyed with the idea of using
> one of the above in my conversion for a couple years now, but my LiFePO4
> pack, though 7 years old, is still doing fine so I'm reticent to spend more
> money on batteries, and I'd kind of like to see how long it lasts before
> significant degradation.  I lean more toward Tesla modules since I could
> double my pack size and have a bit LESS weight, and I think with proper
> care
> in the implementation, packaging, and operation (bms) they would be safe.
>
> I also prefer liquid cooling since I think the end of life of my cells will
> be caused by creeping up internal resistance, not capacity loss.  We get
> fairly high temperatures here in July and August (~100F, sometimes above)
> so
> the higher internal resistance will result in more pack heating and pack
> temperatures exceeding the ~40C (104F) limit above which it seems that
> greater deterioration occurs. I've exceeded that a few times, and expect it
> will get more frequent as ir creeps up.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-
> discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-battery-pack-
> connector-tp4684927p4685015.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[damon henry via EV]

Actually the ones I bought were brand new SANS one rally car race in the back 
of the White Zombie.  So they had somewhere between 50-80 miles of use on them.


Damon


From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cruisin via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2016 12:06:06 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

Those Volt modules you bought from a junkie are of old technology and lower
AH than the newer Brand New Volt modules you can buy on Ebay at the same
price.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Cruisin via EV]

Those Volt modules you bought from a junkie are of old technology and lower
AH than the newer Brand New Volt modules you can buy on Ebay at the same
price.

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Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

Great!  Availability is up, and pricing is down in the past few years - which 
is wonderful news!
As I said, I converted my truck almost 3 years ago, when other packs were 
harder to find, and more expensive.

On Sat Dec 24 08:18:24 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>John, all I know is what is on places like Car-Part.com. Volt packs (16kWh)
>seem to go for around $1500 - $1800 there, and are much more plentiful than
>Leaf packs.  A few have offered Tesla modules for sale on endless sphere and
>diyelectriccar for around $1200 per module.  A module being about 240Ah and
>nominal 22.2 V (6 x 3.7V), so about 5.3 kWh.


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[tomw via EV]

John, all I know is what is on places like Car-Part.com. Volt packs (16kWh)
seem to go for around $1500 - $1800 there, and are much more plentiful than
Leaf packs.  A few have offered Tesla modules for sale on endless sphere and
diyelectriccar for around $1200 per module.  A module being about 240Ah and
nominal 22.2 V (6 x 3.7V), so about 5.3 kWh.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[damon henry via EV]

I picked up 4 48 volt 45ahr Volt modules for my truck for $500 a piece, $2000 
total.  That seems to be in the ballpark of the going rate.  It's all sitting 
in my garage waiting for me to put everything together.  I may add more Volt 
modules later if I like what I have and want to extend my range.


I've also had very good luck with these chargers from China.  I special ordered 
some with the end voltage set to 49.8 volts.  They do 6 amps CC/CV.  I got one 
for each volt module.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Aluminum-Housing-48V-5A-6A-Li-ion-Battery-Charger/422560048.html
[https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB19SAjKpXtXpXXq6xXFXXXK/High-Quality-Aluminum-Housing-48V-54-6V-6A-amp-13S-Li-ion-LiPo-Battery-Charger-for.jpg]<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Aluminum-Housing-48V-5A-6A-Li-ion-Battery-Charger/422560048.html>

High Quality Aluminum Housing 48V (54.6V) 6A (amp) 13S Li ion/LiPo Battery 
Charger for Electric Bike/Scooter Use on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba 
Group<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-Aluminum-Housing-48V-5A-6A-Li-ion-Battery-Charger/422560048.html>
www.aliexpress.com
Cheap battery charger automatic, Buy Quality charger dvd directly from China 
battery 12ah Suppliers: Aluminum Housing 48V (54.6V) 6A (amp) 13S Li-ion/LiPo 
Battery Charger  Input: 110VAC (US, Japan) 

I have placed several orders with these guys and I've had good results.  I 
originally found them because someone else on the EVDL mentioned them.

Damon


From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of John Lussmyer via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 8:39:28 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; tomw
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

On Fri Dec 23 08:09:39 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>May I ask why the two of you (John, Cor) decided to use Leaf packs rather
>than Volt packs?

Mainly Price and Availability.  I converted my truck to Leaf modules about 2 
1/2 years ago.
Do you have current price and availability of either Volt or Tesla modules?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Fri Dec 23 08:09:39 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>May I ask why the two of you (John, Cor) decided to use Leaf packs rather
>than Volt packs?  

Mainly Price and Availability.  I converted my truck to Leaf modules about 2 
1/2 years ago.
Do you have current price and availability of either Volt or Tesla modules?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[tomw via EV]

May I ask why the two of you (John, Cor) decided to use Leaf packs rather
than Volt packs?  The spinel chemistry used in Leaf batteries is known to be
inferior to the NMC chemistry which I think is used in Volt packs, and the
Volt packs have liquid temperature control to further improve longevity. On
the other hand, the Leaf modules seem to be much easier to work with if you
want to make a custom pack, say by combining the basic 2s2p modules in
parallel to make higher Ah modules, or to fit an existing battery box in a
conversion.

Then there are also Tesla S modules available which seem to be the best
chemistry for longevity and the highest energy density.  Some are concerned
with the safety of these higher energy density cells, but the Tesla packs
seem very well designed for safety with each cell fused on both anode and
cathode, and my understanding is you have access to the bms wires from each
module so can straight-forwardly connect a bms to them.

Just wondering what drove your decision.  I've toyed with the idea of using
one of the above in my conversion for a couple years now, but my LiFePO4
pack, though 7 years old, is still doing fine so I'm reticent to spend more
money on batteries, and I'd kind of like to see how long it lasts before
significant degradation.  I lean more toward Tesla modules since I could
double my pack size and have a bit LESS weight, and I think with proper care
in the implementation, packaging, and operation (bms) they would be safe.  

I also prefer liquid cooling since I think the end of life of my cells will
be caused by creeping up internal resistance, not capacity loss.  We get
fairly high temperatures here in July and August (~100F, sometimes above) so
the higher internal resistance will result in more pack heating and pack
temperatures exceeding the ~40C (104F) limit above which it seems that
greater deterioration occurs. I've exceeded that a few times, and expect it
will get more frequent as ir creeps up.

--
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http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Leaf-battery-pack-connector-tp4684927p4685015.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Mon Dec 19 12:56:30 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Indeed, the round connector on the front of the Leaf battery pack has a
>different mechanical layout and different size pins and spacing, but the
>same pin numbers are wired and the assignment is identical.

Got the Wolftronix tester working by using a handful of jumper wires.


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi John,
Indeed, the round connector on the front of the Leaf battery pack has a
different mechanical layout and different size pins and spacing, but the
same pin numbers are wired and the assignment is identical.

What I was talking about the internal wiring is the 98 sense wires from
the 96 modules to the BMS - the wiring has wire-to-wire connectors at
the sub-pack boundary so you can separate each sub-pack from the rest of
the wiring.
Those plugs are mechanically identical between different variants of the
battery, but the wiring of those is different, so make sure to never mix
wiring from different packs!

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
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-Original Message-
From: John Lussmyer [mailto:cou...@casadelgato.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 12:48 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Leaf battery pack connector

On Mon Dec 19 11:58:13 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>John,
>The older packs have a different connector on the outside,
>but on the inside of the pack it is the same (not all wiring - the
>battery sense wiring *is* pinned out differently, even though the plugs
>are the same! Beware!)

I assume you aren't talking about the big round connector pinout with
that statement.

>Luckily the pins are the same signals on both: CAN bus, ground, +12V
and
>the 3 relay coils (precharge and 2 main contactors)
>
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/uselectricar/photos/albums/18416431
8
>3/lightbox/1587293210

Thanks.  So the pinout is the same, just the connector housing has
changed?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Mon Dec 19 11:58:13 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>John,
>The older packs have a different connector on the outside,
>but on the inside of the pack it is the same (not all wiring - the
>battery sense wiring *is* pinned out differently, even though the plugs
>are the same! Beware!)

I assume you aren't talking about the big round connector pinout with that 
statement.

>Luckily the pins are the same signals on both: CAN bus, ground, +12V and
>the 3 relay coils (precharge and 2 main contactors)
>
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/uselectricar/photos/albums/184164318
>3/lightbox/1587293210

Thanks.  So the pinout is the same, just the connector housing has changed?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Sorry about that, I thought the photo directory was also open.
I sent the picture to you by separate email (list does not allow
attachments)

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: John Lussmyer [mailto:cou...@casadelgato.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 12:22 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Leaf battery pack connector

On Mon Dec 19 11:58:13 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I can send you the service docs or you can simply use the picture that
I
>uploaded to the US Electricar Yahoo group which should be open for
>public viewing, since we are converting the trucks to run with Leaf
>packs:
>
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/uselectricar/photos/albums/18416431
8
>3/lightbox/1587293210

While I can see the group messages, you have to be a member to see the
photos.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Mon Dec 19 11:58:13 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I can send you the service docs or you can simply use the picture that I
>uploaded to the US Electricar Yahoo group which should be open for
>public viewing, since we are converting the trucks to run with Leaf
>packs:
>
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/uselectricar/photos/albums/184164318
>3/lightbox/1587293210

While I can see the group messages, you have to be a member to see the photos.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Cor van de Water via EV]

John,
The older packs have a different connector on the outside,
but on the inside of the pack it is the same (not all wiring - the
battery sense wiring *is* pinned out differently, even though the plugs
are the same! Beware!)

Luckily the pins are the same signals on both: CAN bus, ground, +12V and
the 3 relay coils (precharge and 2 main contactors)

I can send you the service docs or you can simply use the picture that I
uploaded to the US Electricar Yahoo group which should be open for
public viewing, since we are converting the trucks to run with Leaf
packs:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/uselectricar/photos/albums/184164318
3/lightbox/1587293210

The pin 4 is +12V from ignition key switch,
pin 5 is permanent +12V battery connection
and pin 21 is +12V during charging.

Pins 6,7 and 8 are all ground and are shorted together inside the BMS
computer.
Let me know if you have any questions,

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Nikki
Gordon-Bloomfield via EV
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 11:47 AM
To: John Lussmyer; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

You can reach WolfTronix too at http://www.wolftronix.com/ - he's
working
on a board that allows DIY projects to make use of the build-in LEAF BMS
for aftermarket projects.

He also makes some cool animatronics stuff, which is how I found out
about
him in the first place ^-^

Nikki.



[image: --]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
[image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney
<https://about.me/aminorjourney?promo=email_sig>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield <
ni...@littlecollie.com> wrote:

> Try reaching out to "WolfTronix" - he's been working on doing some
pretty
> fun things with LEAF packs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiLeHxANvxq6_
> BTl3GbeahQ
>
> Nikki.
>
>
>
> [image: --]
>
> Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
> [image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney
> <https://about.me/aminorjourney?promo=email_sig>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 11:23 AM, John Lussmyer via EV
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I was able to borrow a little unit that plugs into the round
multi-pin
>> connector on a Leaf pack to read out all the cell voltages.
>> Problem is, I discovered that the connector is for newer Leaf packs,
and
>> doesn't fit into the connector on older leaf packs.
>>
>> Anyone know what the exact differences are?
>> Is it just a physical plug difference, or are the signals different
as
>> well?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV]

Try reaching out to “WolfTronix” — he’s been working on doing some pretty
fun things with LEAF packs.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiLeHxANvxq6_BTl3GbeahQ

Nikki.



[image: --]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
[image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney


On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 11:23 AM, John Lussmyer via EV 
wrote:

> I was able to borrow a little unit that plugs into the round multi-pin
> connector on a Leaf pack to read out all the cell voltages.
> Problem is, I discovered that the connector is for newer Leaf packs, and
> doesn't fit into the connector on older leaf packs.
>
> Anyone know what the exact differences are?
> Is it just a physical plug difference, or are the signals different as
> well?
>
>
> --
> Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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[EVDL] Leaf battery pack connector

[John Lussmyer via EV]

I was able to borrow a little unit that plugs into the round multi-pin 
connector on a Leaf pack to read out all the cell voltages.
Problem is, I discovered that the connector is for newer Leaf packs, and 
doesn't fit into the connector on older leaf packs.

Anyone know what the exact differences are?
Is it just a physical plug difference, or are the signals different as well?


--
Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
___
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