Re: [EVDL] Testing Teslas New Full Self Driving FSD, NOT ready for prime time
Multiple computers? “ Feb 7 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O)decided to remove one of the two electronic control units included in the steering racks of some made-in-China Model 3 and Model Y cars to meet fourth-quarter sales goals while coping with global chip shortage, CNBC reported on Monday.” https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/tesla-cut-steering-component-some-cars-deal-with-chip-shortage-cnbc-2022-02-08/ - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Feb 8, 2022, at 1:19 PM, mark hanson via EV wrote: > > Hi Mark etc, > > > > Fundamentally: There's really *too* many variables to do FSD (full self > driving) safely. > > > > I just got back from Blacksburg, VA, professor Dave's Tesla-3 with the > *latest* as of 2-8-22 self driving software to show off. We let it drive us > around Blacksburg (about 30 minutes) and it got confused, *stuck* in a > round-a-bout, another road T, had to give it some accel and then made a left > turn *almost hitting* a big black truck head-on (Dave jerked the steering > wheel thankfully). Going back through the neighborhood, someone popped out > between two parked vehicles on the side of the road and it almost clipped > her. Due droplets on the cameras (or mud) can cause intermittent issues > I've found. It's a great EV but Tesla needs to drop this self driving > thing, not worth having live folks as experiments. > > > > I thought with multiple computers drop out issues would be solved, but now > I'm convinced after seeing firsthand actual FSD errors not to pay the extra > (now $12K I was just told) to be part of Elon's experiment. > > > > Best Regards, > > The other Mark Hanson > > > > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 08:43:29 + (UTC) > > From: Mark Laity-Snyder > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Subject: [EVDL] Fw: Request Tesla crash data > > Message-ID: <1430018246.579166.1644309809...@mail.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Mark:? Thanks for this.? I am not sure if it will help.? I agree with you > that Tesla should have two or even 3 computers for full self driving.? If > one were to glitch out, that is all that is preventing you or many others > from being injured or killed.? Tesla has a 5 star safety rating.? So the > passengers and driver will probably be ok but bystanders be aware. > > EVDL: ?I am the guy Mark was talking about.??Story time!? So my wife got in > the 1st Tesla accident.? FSD was on and she was driving.? She was fiddling > with the sound system (or something) on the lovely screen that practically > begs you to play with it and we were on a road we don't often go down.? It > happened to be a T intersection with a stop sign.? She saw the stop sign too > late and ran into a short wall.? This was before FSD registered stop signs > and would have slowed down for a stop sign.? Such is our luck.? On the 2nd > Tesla accident, I can't remember the details leading to the accident since I > sustained a pretty bad head injury (enough to cause double vision for 6 > months).? However we saw the dash cam footage which shows the car just > driving off the road.? No change in speed or course correction.? I was given > many tests after the accident to rule out some physical problem that may > have caused me to lose consciousness.? There was no smoking gun that would > say "Yes he lost consciou sness because...".? I am lucky Tesla has that 5 > star safety rating because other than the double vision I had no lasting > injuries.? The people who were going to move the vehicle wanted to cut the > vehicle at the battery.? Fortunately someone realized it was a Tesla and > didn't do that which would have started a runaway fire.?? > > So lessons learned are exactly what folks have said about losing focus.? FSD > is very good ALMOST all the time.? In that one case out of 1000+ the human > must be ready to take over in a split second. I am still very hopeful for > FSD to be solved. If any company can do it it will be Tesla at this point > since they have the most data.? I think the super computer is just used for > training the cars to get better and the more data they have the faster that > will happen.? Waymo has a lovely system that only works in the geofenced > area that is premapped and safe.? ?I agree with Lawrence that cameras should > be all that is needed.? Radar was probably giving false signals.? Then there > is question of priority.? The cameras see all clear but the radar sees > something else like a leaf or snow or a rabbit.? Which one has priority??? > > I am not sure where my focus was but it was not where it needed to be.? I > was out of work for over 8 months and now I can't afford to replace the > Tesla.? It is a great car.? Even after all that, I would probably get FSD > again especially since it is improving so rapidly.? It is like having a > front row seat watching our computer overlords take their first steps before > they take over our lives. > > > > - Forwarded
[EVDL] Testing Teslas New Full Self Driving FSD, NOT ready for prime time
Hi Mark etc, Fundamentally: There's really *too* many variables to do FSD (full self driving) safely. I just got back from Blacksburg, VA, professor Dave's Tesla-3 with the *latest* as of 2-8-22 self driving software to show off. We let it drive us around Blacksburg (about 30 minutes) and it got confused, *stuck* in a round-a-bout, another road T, had to give it some accel and then made a left turn *almost hitting* a big black truck head-on (Dave jerked the steering wheel thankfully). Going back through the neighborhood, someone popped out between two parked vehicles on the side of the road and it almost clipped her. Due droplets on the cameras (or mud) can cause intermittent issues I've found. It's a great EV but Tesla needs to drop this self driving thing, not worth having live folks as experiments. I thought with multiple computers drop out issues would be solved, but now I'm convinced after seeing firsthand actual FSD errors not to pay the extra (now $12K I was just told) to be part of Elon's experiment. Best Regards, The other Mark Hanson Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 08:43:29 + (UTC) From: Mark Laity-Snyder To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Fw: Request Tesla crash data Message-ID: <1430018246.579166.1644309809...@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mark:? Thanks for this.? I am not sure if it will help.? I agree with you that Tesla should have two or even 3 computers for full self driving.? If one were to glitch out, that is all that is preventing you or many others from being injured or killed.? Tesla has a 5 star safety rating.? So the passengers and driver will probably be ok but bystanders be aware. EVDL: ?I am the guy Mark was talking about.??Story time!? So my wife got in the 1st Tesla accident.? FSD was on and she was driving.? She was fiddling with the sound system (or something) on the lovely screen that practically begs you to play with it and we were on a road we don't often go down.? It happened to be a T intersection with a stop sign.? She saw the stop sign too late and ran into a short wall.? This was before FSD registered stop signs and would have slowed down for a stop sign.? Such is our luck.? On the 2nd Tesla accident, I can't remember the details leading to the accident since I sustained a pretty bad head injury (enough to cause double vision for 6 months).? However we saw the dash cam footage which shows the car just driving off the road.? No change in speed or course correction.? I was given many tests after the accident to rule out some physical problem that may have caused me to lose consciousness.? There was no smoking gun that would say "Yes he lost consciou sness because...".? I am lucky Tesla has that 5 star safety rating because other than the double vision I had no lasting injuries.? The people who were going to move the vehicle wanted to cut the vehicle at the battery.? Fortunately someone realized it was a Tesla and didn't do that which would have started a runaway fire.?? So lessons learned are exactly what folks have said about losing focus.? FSD is very good ALMOST all the time.? In that one case out of 1000+ the human must be ready to take over in a split second. I am still very hopeful for FSD to be solved. If any company can do it it will be Tesla at this point since they have the most data.? I think the super computer is just used for training the cars to get better and the more data they have the faster that will happen.? Waymo has a lovely system that only works in the geofenced area that is premapped and safe.? ?I agree with Lawrence that cameras should be all that is needed.? Radar was probably giving false signals.? Then there is question of priority.? The cameras see all clear but the radar sees something else like a leaf or snow or a rabbit.? Which one has priority??? I am not sure where my focus was but it was not where it needed to be.? I was out of work for over 8 months and now I can't afford to replace the Tesla.? It is a great car.? Even after all that, I would probably get FSD again especially since it is improving so rapidly.? It is like having a front row seat watching our computer overlords take their first steps before they take over our lives. - Forwarded Message - From: mark hanson To: 'Mark Laity-Snyder' Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022, 10:39:55 PM ESTSubject: Request Tesla crash data Hi Mark, ? I saw a few articles that Tesla will supply the crash data recorded in the vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy .? I think you said in both your cases, that the vehicle thought the self driving or auto pilot was off when it was actually on.? It needs at least 3 computers to vote for life critical operations, like self driving on a curvy road ? glitch, drops out & goes straight, ok for a desk PC but not for a vehicle.? Seeing this thread go around on the EVlist again. ? Have a renewable energy day, ? Mark ? Mark E.
