Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
"Well, to be fair I have always thought they picked a bad spot for the port." I disagree. I have been in situations where I was able to charge because Kia put the charge port in the middle in the front. Side ports would not have worked. Of course, Kia did not put the port angled up so that might be easier than Nissan's placement. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> From: EV on behalf of paul dove via EV Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:25:41 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: paul dove Subject: Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs Well, to be fair I have always thought they picked a bad spot for the port. It’s hard to get to and they used cumbersome technology with Chademo. Chademo requires much more physical strength than a Tesla plug. However, the woman comment was not called for many men would have the same difficulty. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2020/01/02/did-a-nissan-exec-really-just-say-that-ev-charging-is-too-difficult-for-women/ > Nissan exec plays up ‘EV-like’ hybrids that don’t need to be plugged in > Jan. 2nd 2020 Bradley Berman > > [image > https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/01/nisan-woman-charging-1-2000.jpg > evse Woman charging Nissan Leaf > ] > > Did a Nissan exec really just say that EV charging is too difficult for > women? > > Ivan Espinosa, Nissan’s global product strategist, wants to strengthen the > ailing Nissan brand by “bringing more electrification.” For Espinosa, this > means more hybrids alongside EVs. Those hybrids can give drivers a sense of > an “EV drive feel,” even though a gas engine is used as the source of power. > Meanwhile, according to his interview published today in Automotive News, he > believes that EV charging has been a “hassle.” Nissan responded by finding > better locations for charging ports and making charging connectors more > user-friendly. > > When asked about the lessons that Nissan learned from 10 years of selling > the Leaf, Espinosa replied: > > One of them is the hassle of charging. How easy or complicated this is has a > big impact on the EV customer experience. It is not just about time. It is > simple things such as location of the charger and even the weight of the > cable. We have a lot of female Leaf drivers, and in some cases, the > technologies that we use today are not so friendly for them. > > We have also learned many things about the battery technology and electric > motor technology. All that is helping us to make our EV drive smoother. > > The answer for the Nissan strategist is to offer “not only EVs,” which the > company will continue to offer, but also hybrid technology that the company > calls “e-Power.” In other words, Nissan’s idea is to sell vehicles that > provide some of the same driving experience while not requiring a plug. > > Nissan’s website describes e-Power with these words next to the image of an > internal combustion engine: > > e-POWER borrows from the EV technology perfected in the Nissan Leaf, adding > a gasoline engine to charge the high-output battery when necessary. This > eliminates the need for an external charger while offering the same high > output as an EV. > > Recently, Nissan also said it would downplay affordable electric cars like > the Leaf in favor of higher-priced luxury EVs. > > Now Espinosa tells Automotive News that it wants to sell EVs that aren’t > EVs: > > It allows the customer to experience the complete EV-drive feel without > being in an EV. > > The Nissan executive wants to widely deploy e-Power not only in Europe but > globally. Espinosa said that e-Power will allow commuters to “experience > EV-like driving” in markets where charging infrastructure is not ready or > “where customers don’t have access to electric vehicles.” > > He didn’t explain how drivers can have an “EV-like experience” without the > ability to plug the car in but absolutely requiring visits to a gas station. > Espinosa said: > > Effectively it’s a motor-driven car because the combustion engine is only > charging the battery. Therefore, the behavior is very close to an electric > vehicle. With this, we can get customers to experience what it’s like to > drive an EV. > > This technology is at the core of what Nissan will deploy in the future. It > is not only technology that we are developing for Japan and then exporting. > It is a technology that we are developing [for] each market. > > Electrek’s Take > A decade ago, Nissan became a pioneer in pure electric technology. It’s sad > to see how far the Japanese automaker has fallen from its leadershi
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
"the executive calls out women as struggling harder with EV charging cables more than men." Don't let my wife know. She thinks it is easy. Even plugging in the CHAdeMO plug into our Kia Soul EVs isn't a problem. I don't thi k that exec knows what he is talking about. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> From: EV on behalf of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2020 9:02:07 AM To: Peri Hartman ; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Cc: EVDL Administrator Subject: Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs On 5 Jan 2020 at 16:10, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > I can see the argument for plug-in hybrids for single car households. So can I, but they have all the complexity and cost of ICEVs and then some. And their relevance is falling fast as large batteries and rapid charging become more common. I don't see the future there, but obviously the automakers do, because they seem to be planning to release more hybrids (real and fake) than BEVs. But, again, that's not what Espinoza was talking about. Actually, I'm not at all sure that HE knows what he's talking about. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200110/0cc738df/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
On 5 Jan 2020 at 16:10, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > I can see the argument for plug-in hybrids for single car households. So can I, but they have all the complexity and cost of ICEVs and then some. And their relevance is falling fast as large batteries and rapid charging become more common. I don't see the future there, but obviously the automakers do, because they seem to be planning to release more hybrids (real and fake) than BEVs. But, again, that's not what Espinoza was talking about. Actually, I'm not at all sure that HE knows what he's talking about. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
I think you hit the main point, David: how will hybrids meet EU standards ? Depending on what happens in the US, may not even meet those standards. And, without a plug-in, it's 100% powered by gasoline. That's 20 year old technology, not likely to be as popular as plug-in hybrids. I can see the argument for plug-in hybrids for single car households. But this ? Disappointing. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "EVDL Administrator" Sent: 05-Jan-20 6:28:57 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs On 5 Jan 2020 at 5:10, Bob Bath via EV wrote: And this is from a CEO? Where do they find these ppl?!! I'm speculating here, but perhaps Ghosn's promotion of EVs is another reason they wanted to get rid of him. However, I should point out that Hiroto Saikawa is the Nissan CEO. Espinoza is just a "global product strategist." But for Nissan to have hired a person with attitudes about women straight from the 1950s shows a self- destructive level of corporate ignorance. Further, if Espinoza is actually speaking for Nissan's management, it appears that the same people who opposed closer ties with Renault are totally fine with letting Renault have Nissan's share of the EU EV market. Seems odd, but what do I know? EU regulators are looking for pretty significant CO2 reductions. I could be wrong, but I don't think that "hybrids" that aren't hybrids are going to fly there. Nissan can just make up for those lost EU sales by pushing more bloated pickups and SUVs in North America, right? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
On 5 Jan 2020 at 5:10, Bob Bath via EV wrote: > And this is from a CEO? Where do they find these ppl?!! I'm speculating here, but perhaps Ghosn's promotion of EVs is another reason they wanted to get rid of him. However, I should point out that Hiroto Saikawa is the Nissan CEO. Espinoza is just a "global product strategist." But for Nissan to have hired a person with attitudes about women straight from the 1950s shows a self- destructive level of corporate ignorance. Further, if Espinoza is actually speaking for Nissan's management, it appears that the same people who opposed closer ties with Renault are totally fine with letting Renault have Nissan's share of the EU EV market. Seems odd, but what do I know? EU regulators are looking for pretty significant CO2 reductions. I could be wrong, but I don't think that "hybrids" that aren't hybrids are going to fly there. Nissan can just make up for those lost EU sales by pushing more bloated pickups and SUVs in North America, right? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
Well, to be fair I have always thought they picked a bad spot for the port. It’s hard to get to and they used cumbersome technology with Chademo. Chademo requires much more physical strength than a Tesla plug. However, the woman comment was not called for many men would have the same difficulty. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 5, 2020, at 12:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2020/01/02/did-a-nissan-exec-really-just-say-that-ev-charging-is-too-difficult-for-women/ > Nissan exec plays up ‘EV-like’ hybrids that don’t need to be plugged in > Jan. 2nd 2020 Bradley Berman > > [image > https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/01/nisan-woman-charging-1-2000.jpg > evse Woman charging Nissan Leaf > ] > > Did a Nissan exec really just say that EV charging is too difficult for > women? > > Ivan Espinosa, Nissan’s global product strategist, wants to strengthen the > ailing Nissan brand by “bringing more electrification.” For Espinosa, this > means more hybrids alongside EVs. Those hybrids can give drivers a sense of > an “EV drive feel,” even though a gas engine is used as the source of power. > Meanwhile, according to his interview published today in Automotive News, he > believes that EV charging has been a “hassle.” Nissan responded by finding > better locations for charging ports and making charging connectors more > user-friendly. > > When asked about the lessons that Nissan learned from 10 years of selling > the Leaf, Espinosa replied: > > One of them is the hassle of charging. How easy or complicated this is has a > big impact on the EV customer experience. It is not just about time. It is > simple things such as location of the charger and even the weight of the > cable. We have a lot of female Leaf drivers, and in some cases, the > technologies that we use today are not so friendly for them. > > We have also learned many things about the battery technology and electric > motor technology. All that is helping us to make our EV drive smoother. > > The answer for the Nissan strategist is to offer “not only EVs,” which the > company will continue to offer, but also hybrid technology that the company > calls “e-Power.” In other words, Nissan’s idea is to sell vehicles that > provide some of the same driving experience while not requiring a plug. > > Nissan’s website describes e-Power with these words next to the image of an > internal combustion engine: > > e-POWER borrows from the EV technology perfected in the Nissan Leaf, adding > a gasoline engine to charge the high-output battery when necessary. This > eliminates the need for an external charger while offering the same high > output as an EV. > > Recently, Nissan also said it would downplay affordable electric cars like > the Leaf in favor of higher-priced luxury EVs. > > Now Espinosa tells Automotive News that it wants to sell EVs that aren’t > EVs: > > It allows the customer to experience the complete EV-drive feel without > being in an EV. > > The Nissan executive wants to widely deploy e-Power not only in Europe but > globally. Espinosa said that e-Power will allow commuters to “experience > EV-like driving” in markets where charging infrastructure is not ready or > “where customers don’t have access to electric vehicles.” > > He didn’t explain how drivers can have an “EV-like experience” without the > ability to plug the car in but absolutely requiring visits to a gas station. > Espinosa said: > > Effectively it’s a motor-driven car because the combustion engine is only > charging the battery. Therefore, the behavior is very close to an electric > vehicle. With this, we can get customers to experience what it’s like to > drive an EV. > > This technology is at the core of what Nissan will deploy in the future. It > is not only technology that we are developing for Japan and then exporting. > It is a technology that we are developing [for] each market. > > Electrek’s Take > A decade ago, Nissan became a pioneer in pure electric technology. It’s sad > to see how far the Japanese automaker has fallen from its leadership role in > EVs. To use a double-speak term like “e-Power” to describe a no-plug, > gas-electric hybrid — suggesting that it’s an EV in some way, even if just > in terms of driving feel — is bad enough. > > But then to say that the ultra-simple and easy task of plugging is a hassle, > wherever the charging port might be located, undermines one of the chief > benefits of an EV. It’s much easier to charge at home rather than taking > trips to the gas station. > > To make matters worse — even if in the spirit of saying that Nissan uses > customer feedback to improve the EV experience — the executive calls out > women as struggling harder with EV charging cables more than men. That’s > regrettable. > [© electrek.co] > ... > https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/APPROACH/NEWMOBILITYCONCEPT/ > > > > > For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >
Re: [EVDL] NMC backpedaling, 2be like TMC> 2sell EVs that aren’t EVs
1) Nissan joined anti global warming lobbying group; 2) inferior battery chemistry: AESC, instead of LG Chem; 3) Last to come to the 200 mi range club 4) Raised prices of replacement packs by selling stake in AESC to Chinese and The idiot thinks it’s about the “hassle of plugging in” No sir: going to a gas station and paying several times the price for a finite product whose profits sponsor terrorism and reduce democracy and take up my precious time is a “hassle”. And this is from a CEO? Where do they find these ppl?!! Sincerely, Bob Bath Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not cluelessness. > On Jan 4, 2020, at 10:03 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > > > > https://electrek.co/2020/01/02/did-a-nissan-exec-really-just-say-that-ev-charging-is-too-difficult-for-women/ > Nissan exec plays up ‘EV-like’ hybrids that don’t need to be plugged in > Jan. 2nd 2020 Bradley Berman > > [image > https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/01/nisan-woman-charging-1-2000.jpg > evse Woman charging Nissan Leaf > ] > > Did a Nissan exec really just say that EV charging is too difficult for > women? > > Ivan Espinosa, Nissan’s global product strategist, wants to strengthen the > ailing Nissan brand by “bringing more electrification.” For Espinosa, this > means more hybrids alongside EVs. Those hybrids can give drivers a sense of > an “EV drive feel,” even though a gas engine is used as the source of power. > Meanwhile, according to his interview published today in Automotive News, he > believes that EV charging has been a “hassle.” Nissan responded by finding > better locations for charging ports and making charging connectors more > user-friendly. > > When asked about the lessons that Nissan learned from 10 years of selling > the Leaf, Espinosa replied: > > One of them is the hassle of charging. How easy or complicated this is has a > big impact on the EV customer experience. It is not just about time. It is > simple things such as location of the charger and even the weight of the > cable. We have a lot of female Leaf drivers, and in some cases, the > technologies that we use today are not so friendly for them. > > We have also learned many things about the battery technology and electric > motor technology. All that is helping us to make our EV drive smoother. > > The answer for the Nissan strategist is to offer “not only EVs,” which the > company will continue to offer, but also hybrid technology that the company > calls “e-Power.” In other words, Nissan’s idea is to sell vehicles that > provide some of the same driving experience while not requiring a plug. > > Nissan’s website describes e-Power with these words next to the image of an > internal combustion engine: > > e-POWER borrows from the EV technology perfected in the Nissan Leaf, adding > a gasoline engine to charge the high-output battery when necessary. This > eliminates the need for an external charger while offering the same high > output as an EV. > > Recently, Nissan also said it would downplay affordable electric cars like > the Leaf in favor of higher-priced luxury EVs. > > Now Espinosa tells Automotive News that it wants to sell EVs that aren’t > EVs: > > It allows the customer to experience the complete EV-drive feel without > being in an EV. > > The Nissan executive wants to widely deploy e-Power not only in Europe but > globally. Espinosa said that e-Power will allow commuters to “experience > EV-like driving” in markets where charging infrastructure is not ready or > “where customers don’t have access to electric vehicles.” > > He didn’t explain how drivers can have an “EV-like experience” without the > ability to plug the car in but absolutely requiring visits to a gas station. > Espinosa said: > > Effectively it’s a motor-driven car because the combustion engine is only > charging the battery. Therefore, the behavior is very close to an electric > vehicle. With this, we can get customers to experience what it’s like to > drive an EV. > > This technology is at the core of what Nissan will deploy in the future. It > is not only technology that we are developing for Japan and then exporting. > It is a technology that we are developing [for] each market. > > Electrek’s Take > A decade ago, Nissan became a pioneer in pure electric technology. It’s sad > to see how far the Japanese automaker has fallen from its leadership role in > EVs. To use a double-speak term like “e-Power” to describe a no-plug, > gas-electric hybrid — suggesting that it’s an EV in some way, even if just > in terms of driving feel — is bad enough. > > But then to say that the ultra-simple and easy task of plugging is a hassle, > wherever the charging port might be located, undermines one of the chief > benefits of an EV. It’s much easier to charge at home rather than taking > trips to the gas station. > > To make
