Re: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>  ...all the work (power) the motor for the compressor
> and the two more for fans of the condenser and
> evaporator, would consume more energy Vs the
> heat efficiency of simply using a resitive heater?

Not at all.  The energy of the fan and pump are about 1/3rd or so of the
heat you get out of it.

When I turn my cheap 5000 BTu window AC around in the winter and use it as
a heatpump in the winter, its not only pumping 5000 BTU of heat into the
house, but the electric energy of the fans and  compressor are also on the
hot side and also in the house, so the 600 Watts of electrical power (about
2000 more BTU) are also in the house, so we are getting a total of about
7000 BTU of heat for only 2000 BTU of electricity.  Not bad at all.

Of course, the window AC was not designed to be a haetpump and I dont expec
it works well at all below about 40 F outside temperature, but it is great
above that.

Bob, WB4APR

>
>> -Mensaje original-
>> De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Robert Bruninga
>> via
>> EV
>> Enviado el: jueves, 24 de diciembre de 2015 11:55 a.m.
>> Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Asunto: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits
>>
>> All it takes to install a heatpump in an EV is to find a place for a cheap
>> $89 window airconditioner turned backwards.
>>
>> I use Window AC units for heat in my kitchen, bathroom, and at times past
>> in
>> the hallway.
>>
>> I was astounded when I tried running one on a cheap $99 12v/120v modified
>> sinewave inverter and it started right up.  It ran with a load of about
>> 650
>> watts.
>>
>> Now all you have to do is figure out where to put it in the EV.  And that
>> is
>> not as much of a challenge as you might think, depending on your
>> aesthetics.
>>
>> of course when you need it most, and the coldest eemperatures it wont be
>> worth much and will freeze up.
>>
>> Bob, WB4aPR
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Re: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

[Cor van de Water via EV]

All serious heat pumps that have to work at or below freezing ambients
also have a heating element to supply heat and avoid freezing up the
unit.
Many cars already have Airco with a large radiator in the grille to
catch
ambient air, this is typically to get rid of heat in summer to cool the
cabin, but the radiator will work equally well to extract heat from the
ambient air flowing through it, essentially all that is needed is to
re-plumb the compressor so it can either pump heat into the cabin or
extract heat from the cabin. Note that the radiator fan may need to come
on when the A/C radiator gets too cold, not only when it gets too hot...
in addition, it may be needed to add a (resistive) heater to the A/C
circuit
to avoid it freezes up when it needs to generate a lot of cabin heat in
cold ambient temperatures.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 10:55 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

All it takes to install a heatpump in an EV is to find a place for a
cheap
$89 window airconditioner turned backwards.

I use Window AC units for heat in my kitchen, bathroom, and at times
past
in the hallway.

I was astounded when I tried running one on a cheap $99 12v/120v
modified
sinewave inverter and it started right up.  It ran with a load of about
650
watts.

Now all you have to do is figure out where to put it in the EV.  And
that
is not as much of a challenge as you might think, depending on your
aesthetics.

of course when you need it most, and the coldest eemperatures it wont be
worth much and will freeze up.

Bob, WB4aPR
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Re: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

[tomw via EV]

Heat pump performance has improved a lot over the last couple decades mainly
due to new refrigerants that permit operation to below zero F temperatures. 
The Fujitsu models for example operate down to -5F:

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/storefront/template-resources/images/Fujitsu_MiniSplit_SellSheets.pdf

I have seen others that operate down to -20F.  COP values are typically only
around 1.5 at those temperatures but still much better than resistive
heating.  Iircc COP is in the 2.x range for temperatures in the teens. 

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Re: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

[Ing. Marco Antonio Gaxiola via EV]

How can you measure the difference in efficieny by using a
'resistive' heater Vs a compressed gas system? (AC turned backwards)

We have an air conditioned at our home that usually works for cool
air since we have extreme very hot summer here (Hermosillo Sonora Mexico)
but this unit has a heater option that actually uses a 2 pole-bidirectional
electro-valvle to reverse operation. So it works great!  And we do not have
much trouble of having the 'evaporator' (the one outside when in heater
operation) getting freezing since our wheather is usually dry most of the
time during winter.

But my concern is, all the work (power) the motor for the compressor
and the two more for fans of the condenser and evaporator, would consume
more energy Vs the heat efficiency of simply using a resitive heater?

Robert, ohh yes... those small-cheap inverters are so efficient and
powerful that can run big loads compared to the old conventional 10:1 or 5:1
transformer ones. I ran all house lights, electronic appliances such TV and
internet stuff and our 7.4cu ft. refrigerator on a small inverter powered by
a used lithium cells for about 2hrs during a big black out some months ago.

Marco Gaxiola
www.energyev.com



-Mensaje original-
De: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] En nombre de Robert Bruninga via
EV
Enviado el: jueves, 24 de diciembre de 2015 11:55 a.m.
Para: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Asunto: [EVDL] EV Heatpump Retrofits

All it takes to install a heatpump in an EV is to find a place for a cheap
$89 window airconditioner turned backwards.

I use Window AC units for heat in my kitchen, bathroom, and at times past in
the hallway.

I was astounded when I tried running one on a cheap $99 12v/120v modified
sinewave inverter and it started right up.  It ran with a load of about 650
watts.

Now all you have to do is figure out where to put it in the EV.  And that is
not as much of a challenge as you might think, depending on your aesthetics.

of course when you need it most, and the coldest eemperatures it wont be
worth much and will freeze up.

Bob, WB4aPR
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