Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi Al,
Obviously.
I have several EVSE, most require 120+120V to operate even though they
only provide the 240V to the car.
Only my JuiceBox can live from just a 240V connection.
Installing a NEMA 14 outlet without Neutral would be a code violation
anyway, so I don't plan to go there.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Alan Arrison
via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 6:11 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

If you install a 14-50 outlet, you better make sure you include a 
neutral conductor. (even though most EVSE don't require it)

On 3/7/2016 5:44 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> Thanks for the clarification - I too consider installing a NEMA 14 in
my
> garage. For the 2nd clothes dryer, of course ;-)
>
>

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Alan Arrison via EV]

If you install a 14-50 outlet, you better make sure you include a 
neutral conductor. (even though most EVSE don't require it)


On 3/7/2016 5:44 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the clarification - I too consider installing a NEMA 14 in my
garage. For the 2nd clothes dryer, of course ;-)




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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Lee Hart via EV]

Rush Dougherty via EV wrote:

I'm interested in this idea of 'violations'

Home Depot/Lowes/Ace Hardware/and many other hardware/electrical stores sell
replacement cords for appliances, where you, the homeowner can replace a cord
with a new one. Does that void the UL guarantee and NEC (if there is one)
guarantee?

If it does, that means that those hardware stores are knowingly selling a
product, that if used will void guarantee's. Is that correct?


NEC and UL are independent organizations; not government bodies. Their 
standards are voluntary, and do not carry the force of law.


NEC does nothing by write standards. The first chapter of the NEC 
(National Electric Code) title "90.2 Scope" says their jurisdiction does 
not apply to any kind of vehicles except motor homes and RVs. 
(Infamously, they nevertheless added Article 625 which has specs for EVs 
anyway, even though EVs are outside their scope).


The NEC also does not generally apply to cord-connected non-permanent 
devices that people can simply move around and plug in or unplug 
themselves (like a battery charger). Such devices are more typically 
governed by UL requirements.


UL (Underwriters Laboratories) is an independent *testing* agency. All 
they do is write test standards, and test products to see if they meet 
them. Companies pay UL to test their products, as an independent 
verification that the product is safe, and is built to normally accepted 
industry practices (i.e. it's no worse than anyone else's).


If a complete product (like a battery charger) passes their tests, UL 
can "list" it. Such a product will carry a "UL listed" label. If it's 
just a component part (like a plug or a switch), UL can "recognize" it. 
The part will then carry a "UR" label (UL Recognized).


Neither UL nor NEC have any power to pass or enforce their standards, or 
regulate, insure, warrant, or guarantee anything. Compliance with their 
standards is entirely *voluntary*. The only way that compliance becomes 
mandatory is if some federal, state, or local law happens to say "must 
be built according to NEC" or "must be UL listed" etc.


--
Knowledge is better than belief. Belief is when someone else does
your thinking.  -- anonymous
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Roger Stockton via EV]

Peter C. Thompson wrote:

> I didn't claim that it made any sense.  :)  I agree that having the
> 14-50 plug in the garage makes a lot of sense (which is what I have -
> for welding, of course).

I think the use of NEMA 6-xx connectors makes sense given that the J1772 EVSE 
is a 240V *only* device, and so has no need for the neutral connection provided 
by the NEMA 14-xx receptacles.  If you install a NEMA 14-xx receptacle, you 
must run 4-conductors rather than the 3 required by the NEMA 6-xx receptacle.

If you already have a receptacle of suitable ampacity installed, then it makes 
sense to change the plug on the EVSE to match (cheapest option).

If you plan to haul the EVSE around with you and plug in a RV sites (I believe 
a minority of EV owners fall into this category), then using a similar 
connector at home (or making an adapter cable) is practical.

With respect to invalidating the UL marking on the product, I believe that as 
long as you do not *open* the unit the UL marking remains valid.  That is, 
changing the plug on the end of the cord is (I believe) fine, but if you open 
the case and replace the entire cordset (e.g. it is sometimes cheaper - and 
easier - to buy a range or dryer cordset with the NEMA 14-xx plug molded on 
than to buy the NEMA 14-xx plug on its own), then the UL mark becomes invalid.

This is why some products locate a terminal strip or similar connection means 
for the AC cord outside of the product under some sort of small cover.  You can 
then attach/replace the AC cord without opening the product.

As was hinted at in an earlier message, the UL marking is based not only on the 
product itself but also the production/assembly process, and so if the product 
is opened for service or repair outside of an approved service facility, then 
the UL mark becomes void.

Disclaimer: I am not a regulatory expert; this is just how it has been 
explained to me. ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV]

Just as a side here (because it’s what I have) the Versicharge from Siemens
comes with a four-way switch inside that you can set for maximum current.
This means (if like me) you’re renting a house with a 30A circuit free it’s
possible to turn down the max current to ensure you don’t heat any cables
up ;)

I think we set ours to 24 amps if I remember correctly. In practice, it
still happily charges our 2013 LEAF in a sensible amount of time.

As for plugs? The outlet in our garage provided by our town house is a
6r-30. I wanted 6-50, but they said there wasn’t the capacity for it (which
is why I went for the siemens as it comes with a 6-50 but you can easily
replace the cord with a different one…)

Just my twopennoth,

Nikki.

P.S. Just got a 2002 RAV4 EV as a ‘staff car’ at Transport Evolved. Trying
to figure out how best to charge that!



[image: --]

Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield
[image: https://]about.me/aminorjourney


On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
wrote:

> I may have been the one to mistakenly say guarantee - you are correct in
> that it is certification.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
>
> On 3/7/16 2:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>
>> I have never heard of UL guarantee, all I have seen is UL Certification
>> which is the declaration by the private company UL that they took your
>> product and documentation and even production method, and tested it to
>> guarantee that it meets certain spec and safety standards.
>> The product is then said to be UL Listed.
>> If you modify the product or its production method, then it no longer
>> satisfies the original tests that UL did and that is one of the reasons
>> that UL will inspect products and the factory where they are made, to
>> verify that they still meet the original specs and still deserve to be
>> UL Listed.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter C.
>> Thompson via EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 10:34 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>
>> On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>>
>>> On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>>>
>>> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as

>>> the
>>
>>> current capacity is sufficient.

>>> I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to
>>>
>> a
>>
>>> device approved for direct connection and not for temporary
>>>
>> installation is
>>
>>> a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still
>>>
>> ...
>>
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EVDL Administrator
>>>
>>> Hi David,
>>
>> It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they
>> don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a
>> violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just
>> need to be aware.
>>
>> Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.
>>
>> Cheers, Peter
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>>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

I may have been the one to mistakenly say guarantee - you are correct in 
that it is certification.


Cheers, Peter

On 3/7/16 2:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

I have never heard of UL guarantee, all I have seen is UL Certification
which is the declaration by the private company UL that they took your
product and documentation and even production method, and tested it to
guarantee that it meets certain spec and safety standards.
The product is then said to be UL Listed.
If you modify the product or its production method, then it no longer
satisfies the original tests that UL did and that is one of the reasons
that UL will inspect products and the factory where they are made, to
verify that they still meet the original specs and still deserve to be
UL Listed.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water

XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter C.
Thompson via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 10:34 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:


The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as

the

current capacity is sufficient.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to

a

device approved for direct connection and not for temporary

installation is

a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still

...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


Hi David,

It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they
don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a
violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just
need to be aware.

Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the clarification - I too consider installing a NEMA 14 in my
garage. For the 2nd clothes dryer, of course ;-)

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter C.
Thompson via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:40 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

Hi Cor,

I didn't claim that it made any sense.  :)  I agree that having the 
14-50 plug in the garage makes a lot of sense (which is what I have - 
for welding, of course).

Cheers, Peter

On 3/7/16 10:05 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> Thanks Peter, for the overview of what plugs the EVSE are supplied
with. My issue is that you want to be able to plug the charger into a
matching wall outlet and by my experience the 14-30 and 14-50 are the
most common outlets so I do not understand why so many chargers have a
6-50 plug even though it is simple to cut it off and mount a 14-50 on
the cord, it still does not make sense to expect people to install a
6-50 where they most likely already have a 14-50 and you encounter the
14-50 when you are out and about as RV outlet.
> Cor
>
>> On Mar 7, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV
 wrote:
>>
>> To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
>>
>> Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The
HCS-40P uses the 6-50.
>> GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
>> AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
>> Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
>> AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
>> Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
>> Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
>> EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
>>
>> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as
the current capacity is sufficient.
>>
>> So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull.
Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
>>
>> Cheers, Peter
>>
>> P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
>>
>>> On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2
30 Amp charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original
message From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date:
3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
Wire A Garage EVSE
>>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is
by
>>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is
used
>>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes
had
>>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know
why
>>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what
I
>>> am aware of
>>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says
of
>>> the
>>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the
20A
>>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then
used
>>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>>>
>>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you
want
>>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it,
you
>>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>>>
>>> Cor van de Water
>>> Chief Scientist
>>> Proxim Wireless
>>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>>
>>> http://www.proxim.com
>>>
>>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
and
>>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
received
>>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part
of
>>> this message is prohibited.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5
via EV
>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

Hi Cor,

I didn't claim that it made any sense.  :)  I agree that having the 
14-50 plug in the garage makes a lot of sense (which is what I have - 
for welding, of course).


Cheers, Peter

On 3/7/16 10:05 AM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Thanks Peter, for the overview of what plugs the EVSE are supplied with. My 
issue is that you want to be able to plug the charger into a matching wall 
outlet and by my experience the 14-30 and 14-50 are the most common outlets so 
I do not understand why so many chargers have a 6-50 plug even though it is 
simple to cut it off and mount a 14-50 on the cord, it still does not make 
sense to expect people to install a 6-50 where they most likely already have a 
14-50 and you encounter the 14-50 when you are out and about as RV outlet.
Cor


On Mar 7, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV  wrote:

To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:

Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The HCS-40P 
uses the 6-50.
GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.

The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the 
current capacity is sufficient.

So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. Lower 
current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.

Cheers, Peter

P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.


On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Cor 
van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
Electric Vehicle Discussion List  Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What 
You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
   One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
240-Volt Level 2 charging 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I have never heard of UL guarantee, all I have seen is UL Certification
which is the declaration by the private company UL that they took your
product and documentation and even production method, and tested it to
guarantee that it meets certain spec and safety standards.
The product is then said to be UL Listed.
If you modify the product or its production method, then it no longer
satisfies the original tests that UL did and that is one of the reasons
that UL will inspect products and the factory where they are made, to
verify that they still meet the original specs and still deserve to be
UL Listed.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peter C.
Thompson via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 10:34 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>
>> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as
the
>> current capacity is sufficient.
> I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to
a
> device approved for direct connection and not for temporary
installation is
> a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still
...
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
Hi David,

It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they 
don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a 
violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just 
need to be aware.

Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

If you want to prepare for a 50 or 60 Amp connection as required for
example when installing a NEMA 14-50 then I believe you should install 6
gauge wires.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Thos True via
EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 1:10 PM
To: Peter C. Thompson; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

Agreed Peter. Of course, once you have the 4 square box present with the
decided upon conductors, the receptacle (or lack of) is academic.. I do
recommend a minimum conductor size of #8 however to allow for future
upgrades at a minimal expense.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV

wrote:

> To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
>
> Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The
> HCS-40P uses the 6-50.
> GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
> AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
> Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
> AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
> Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
> Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
> EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
>
> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as
the
> current capacity is sufficient.
>
> So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull.
> Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
> P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
>
>
> On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>
>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2
30
>> Amp charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original
message
>> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date:
>> 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
>> Wire A Garage EVSE
>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is
used
>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what
I
>> am aware of
>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says
of
>> the
>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the
20A
>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then
used
>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>>
>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you
want
>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it,
you
>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via
EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>
>>
>>
>>
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
>> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
>> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
>> Know
>> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>>
>> [images
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
>> Garage
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 socket
>>
>>

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Chris Meier via EV]

The HCS-40P is also available with 14-50.

On March 7, 2016 11:07:12 AM CST, "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
 wrote:
>To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
>
>Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The 
>HCS-40P uses the 6-50.
>GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
>AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
>Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
>AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
>Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
>Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
>EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
>
>The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as
>the 
>current capacity is sufficient.
>
>So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. 
>Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
>
>Cheers, Peter
>
>P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
>
>On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2
>30 Amp charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original
>message From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date:
>3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
>Wire A Garage EVSE
>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is
>used
>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what
>I
>> am aware of
>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says
>of
>> the
>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the
>20A
>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then
>used
>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>>
>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you
>want
>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it,
>you
>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>
>> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
>received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via
>EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
>> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
>> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
>> Know
>> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>>
>> [images
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
>> Garage
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 socket
>>
>>
>http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box
>>
>>
>http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
>> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car
>charging
>> station
>> ]
>>
>> One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
>> electric
>> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>>
>> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
>> charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to
>a
>> 240-Volt Level 2 charging station.
>>
>> Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9
>hours,
>> depending on the specific car.
>>
>> Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
>> garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it
>takes
>> to
>> install one into a garage that's being built or extensively
>remodeled.
>>
>> We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
>> Catskill
>> Mountains. (Note this 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Bill Woodcock via EV]

Heck, stores knowingly sell things that can basically only be used to kill 
people. I don't think anybody's going to complain about Home Depot selling a 
few cord sets. 

-Bill


> On Mar 7, 2016, at 21:30, Rush Dougherty via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
> via EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:06 PM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>> 
>>> On 7 Mar 2016 at 10:33, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> it likely will void any UL guarantees.
>> 
>> You would know more than I about UL guarantees -- I had no idea such a thing
> existed --
>> but I suppose that adding a cord and plug to a device meant to be directly
> wired would
>> affect its UL certification.
>> 
>> It would also contradict the manufacturer's installation instructions, and
> that's an NEC
>> violation right there.
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I interested in this idea of 'violations' -
> 
> Home Depot/Lowes/Ace Hardware/and many other hardware/electrical stores sell
> replacement cords for appliances, where you, the homeowner can replace a cord
> with a new one. Does that void the UL guarantee and NEC (if there is one)
> guarantee?
> 
> If it does, that means that those hardware stores are knowingly selling a
> product, that if used will void guarantee's. Is that correct?
> 
> Or is this just conjecture?
> 
> Rush Dougherty
> Tucson AZ 85719
> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Rush Dougherty via EV]

> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator
via EV
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:06 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>
> On 7 Mar 2016 at 10:33, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>
> > it likely will void any UL guarantees.
>
> You would know more than I about UL guarantees -- I had no idea such a thing
existed --
> but I suppose that adding a cord and plug to a device meant to be directly
wired would
> affect its UL certification.
>
> It would also contradict the manufacturer's installation instructions, and
that's an NEC
> violation right there.
>

Hi all,

I interested in this idea of 'violations' -

Home Depot/Lowes/Ace Hardware/and many other hardware/electrical stores sell
replacement cords for appliances, where you, the homeowner can replace a cord
with a new one. Does that void the UL guarantee and NEC (if there is one)
guarantee?

If it does, that means that those hardware stores are knowingly selling a
product, that if used will void guarantee's. Is that correct?

Or is this just conjecture?

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ 85719


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Peter,

I believe that the units that are cited have factory installed cord ends.
Installing a cord cap on a device approved for direct connection can be
argued as a safety feature (means for emergency disconnection), though it
may be a tough sell.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>
> > The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
> > current capacity is sufficient.
>
> I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to a
> device approved for direct connection and not for temporary installation is
> a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still ...
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
-- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Agreed Peter. Of course, once you have the 4 square box present with the
decided upon conductors, the receptacle (or lack of) is academic.. I do
recommend a minimum conductor size of #8 however to allow for future
upgrades at a minimal expense.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
wrote:

> To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
>
> Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The
> HCS-40P uses the 6-50.
> GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
> AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
> Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
> AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
> Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
> Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
> EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
>
> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
> current capacity is sufficient.
>
> So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull.
> Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
> P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
>
>
> On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>
>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30
>> Amp charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message
>> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date:
>> 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
>> Wire A Garage EVSE
>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
>> am aware of
>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
>> the
>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>>
>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
>> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
>> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
>> Know
>> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>>
>> [images
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
>> Garage
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 socket
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
>> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
>> station
>> ]
>>One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
>> electric
>> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>>
>> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
>> charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
>> 240-Volt Level 2 charging station.
>>
>> Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
>> depending on the specific car.
>>
>> Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
>> garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 7 Mar 2016 at 10:33, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

> it likely will void any UL guarantees.

You would know more than I about UL guarantees -- I had no idea such a thing 
existed -- but I suppose that adding a cord and plug to a device meant to be 
directly wired would affect its UL certification.  

It would also contradict the manufacturer's installation instructions, and 
that's an NEC violation right there.

Again, though, the chance of any real consequences from this is pretty 
small.  And as far as ignoring installation directions, does anybody you 
know actually torque the terminal screws to the device manufacturer's 
specifcations?  :-\

Nor do I see much hazard in adding a cord and plug.  One big caution though -
- make sure your cord is properly protected with a strain relief where it 
exits the charger (EVSE, whatever).  

As an aside, a few years ago, I saw an "installation" where some yahoo had 
connected zip cord to a light fixture, drywall-screwed the fixture to the 
house wall with the cord jammed under its canopy, and plugged the cord into 
a receptacle.  (At least he used a plug, instead of running the cord under 
the receptacle's faceplate.)  When I removed the fixture, I found that the 
edge of the canopy had cut into the wire over the years it had been there.  
Good thing it was touching copper only on the neutral side!

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

On 3/7/16 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:


The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
current capacity is sufficient.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to a
device approved for direct connection and not for temporary installation is
a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still ...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator


Hi David,

It is not a violation if the manufacturer allows you to do so.  If they 
don't specifically mention using a plug, then yes, that would be a 
violation.  And I agree, you are not likely to get into trouble, just 
need to be aware.


Oh, and it likely will void any UL guarantees.

Cheers, Peter
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:

> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
> current capacity is sufficient.

I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to a 
device approved for direct connection and not for temporary installation is 
a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still ...

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Thanks Peter, for the overview of what plugs the EVSE are supplied with. My 
issue is that you want to be able to plug the charger into a matching wall 
outlet and by my experience the 14-30 and 14-50 are the most common outlets so 
I do not understand why so many chargers have a 6-50 plug even though it is 
simple to cut it off and mount a 14-50 on the cord, it still does not make 
sense to expect people to install a 6-50 where they most likely already have a 
14-50 and you encounter the 14-50 when you are out and about as RV outlet. 
Cor

> On Mar 7, 2016, at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
> 
> Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The HCS-40P 
> uses the 6-50.
> GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
> AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
> Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
> AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
> Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
> Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
> EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
> 
> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the 
> current capacity is sufficient.
> 
> So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. Lower 
> current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
> 
> Cheers, Peter
> 
> P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
> 
>> On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
>> charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>> 
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
>> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016  
>> 3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire 
>> A Garage EVSE
>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
>> am aware of
>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
>> the
>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>> 
>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>> 
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>   office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>> 
>> http://www.proxim.com
>> 
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
>> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
>> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
>> Know
>> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>> 
>> [images
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
>> Garage
>> 
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug
>> 
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 socket
>> 
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>> 
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box
>> 
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
>> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
>> station
>> ]
>>   One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
>> electric
>> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>> 
>> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
>> charging cords, battery-electric drivers 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:

Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The 
HCS-40P uses the 6-50.

GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.

The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the 
current capacity is sufficient.


So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull. 
Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.


Cheers, Peter

P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.

On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:

That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: Cor 
van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: 
Electric Vehicle Discussion List  Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What 
You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
   
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water

XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
   
One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in

electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
240-Volt Level 2 charging station.

Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
depending on the specific car.

Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
to
install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.

We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
Catskill
Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)

There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
wiring is
the first step, and separate from the charging station--since drivers
may
later choose to upgrade to a more powerful station.

First, work with your contractor and electrician to install a dedicated
240-Volt line to 1 or 2 feet below wherever you plan to locate your
charging
station.

We sited ours in a corner of the 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Peter C. Thompson via EV]

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

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UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Good to see this post.
As an electrician who has done many of these retrofitted and a few new
construction EVSE circuit installations, I tend to agree with most of the
advice given. I have found that the easiest way to explain the idea to most
potential EV owners is to describe it as a welding outlet (something that
has been a common addition to garages for a couple of generations now). As
for the 6-50 issue, I agree that it is a good choice, but a raised cover
with a grommet for the cord to be sliced inside the box works well too. The
plug type cord is usually at least $10 more than those without. For the
past couple of years,
I have recommended the use of #8 wires as a standard, with a 40 Amp 2 pole
breaker, 30 Amp 2 pole if they are using a smaller charger.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV  wrote:

> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp
> charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message
> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016
> 3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
> Wire A Garage EVSE
> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
> am aware of
> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
> the
> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>
> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>
>
>
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
> Know
> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>
> [images
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
> Garage
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 plug
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 socket
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
> Circuit-breaker box
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
> station
> ]
>
> One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
> electric
> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>
> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
> charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
> 240-Volt Level 2 charging station.
>
> Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
> depending on the specific car.
>
> Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
> garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
> to
> install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.
>
> We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
> Catskill
> Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)
>
> There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
> wiring is
> the first step, and separate from the charging station--since 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[dovepa via EV]

That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp 
charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016  3:18 
AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE 
Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626    Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130    private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images  
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
  
One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
240-Volt Level 2 charging station.

Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
depending on the specific car.

Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
to
install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.

We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
Catskill
Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)

There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
wiring is
the first step, and separate from the charging station--since drivers
may
later choose to upgrade to a more powerful station.

First, work with your contractor and electrician to install a dedicated
240-Volt line to 1 or 2 feet below wherever you plan to locate your
charging
station.

We sited ours in a corner of the building so a car can be recharged
inside,
or we can run the cord out underneath the garage door or through the
regular
door on the side of the building.

Many contractors won't have any prior experience with electric-car
charging
stations, so you may have to educate them.

The easiest way to put it in context is that it's the same kind of
circuit
used for electric clothes driers or stoves.

Second, make sure your new circuit is capable of 50 Amps, which means a
40-Amp charging rate (using 80 percent of the circuit capacity).

Even if your first charging station is only capable of 24 Amps (as many
less-expensive ones are), you'll want to "future-proof" your garage
wiring.

Third, tell the electrician to install a NEMA 6-50 socket--the one used
by
most 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
am aware of
where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
the
NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.

I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE



http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
-electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
Know
Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker

[images  
http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
Garage

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
NEMA 6-50 plug in socket

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box

http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
station
]
  
One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
electric
car seems to be the need for a home charging station.

While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
240-Volt Level 2 charging station.

Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
depending on the specific car.

Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
to
install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.

We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
Catskill
Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)

There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
wiring is
the first step, and separate from the charging station--since drivers
may
later choose to upgrade to a more powerful station.

First, work with your contractor and electrician to install a dedicated
240-Volt line to 1 or 2 feet below wherever you plan to locate your
charging
station.

We sited ours in a corner of the building so a car can be recharged
inside,
or we can run the cord out underneath the garage door or through the
regular
door on the side of the building.

Many contractors won't have any prior experience with electric-car
charging
stations, so you may have to educate them.

The easiest way to put it in context is that it's the same kind of
circuit
used for electric clothes driers or stoves.

Second, make sure your new circuit is capable of 50 Amps, which means a
40-Amp charging rate (using 80 percent of the circuit capacity).

Even if your first charging station is only capable of 24 Amps (as many
less-expensive ones are), you'll want to "future-proof" your garage
wiring.

Third, tell the electrician to install a NEMA 6-50 socket--the one used
by
most charging stations that aren't hard-wired--in the wall below the
chosen
site.

One electrician we spoke to preferred hard-wiring, which eliminates
resistance heat between the plug and socket, but we wanted to allow the
charging station to go with us if we move.

Fourth, once you have your garage wired, THEN select your charging
station
and bolt it securely to the wall.

Most people will buy a new one; we were lucky enough