Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[Steves via EV]

The volt also runs the engine a bit in cold weather to warm up the batteries 
which probably helps the life. It’s a ‘feature’ I didn’t like at first but have 
accepted. 

-Steve

> On Dec 19, 2020, at 11:07 AM, Peter VanDerWal via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> Depends on how the vehicle is designed.   I don't know about the Rav4, but I 
> am familiar with the Chevy Volt.  From what I understand, because of the way 
> Chevy designed them, even the original Volts still have 100% of their 
> original battery range.
> 
> What Chevy did was never allow you to use 100% of the battery's capacity.  
> They always maintained the battery somewhere between 10-20% SoC and 80-90% 
> SoC.  The system is designed to never allowed it to fully charge, or fully 
> discharge.  This not only extended the battery life significantly, but 
> allowed a buffer so that as the battery ages you lose the buffer rather than 
> the core range.
> I'm sure eventually they will run out of buffer and then the owners will 
> start to see a drop in range, but even on the 10 year old vehicles that's not 
> happening yet.
> 
> I just wish that Chevy's marketing and sales folks were 1/2 as good as their 
> engineers.
> 
>>> 42 Miles EV range and 3 full size back row seats. (compared to Prius
>>> Prime range of only 25 mi.) Her daily average mileage is on the order of 35
>>> mi+.
>> 
>> That 20% doesn't seem like much of a range buffer. Seems to me she's likely
>> to run short in cold weather, and probably on hot summer days when whe wants
>> aircon.
>> 
>> The range will fall as the battery ages, too. At 80% battery capacity, it
>> won't be enough no matter what the conditions are.
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

Depends on how the vehicle is designed.   I don't know about the Rav4, but I am 
familiar with the Chevy Volt.  From what I understand, because of the way Chevy 
designed them, even the original Volts still have 100% of their original 
battery range.

What Chevy did was never allow you to use 100% of the battery's capacity.  They 
always maintained the battery somewhere between 10-20% SoC and 80-90% SoC.  The 
system is designed to never allowed it to fully charge, or fully discharge.  
This not only extended the battery life significantly, but allowed a buffer so 
that as the battery ages you lose the buffer rather than the core range.
I'm sure eventually they will run out of buffer and then the owners will start 
to see a drop in range, but even on the 10 year old vehicles that's not 
happening yet.

I just wish that Chevy's marketing and sales folks were 1/2 as good as their 
engineers.

>> 42 Miles EV range and 3 full size back row seats. (compared to Prius
>> Prime range of only 25 mi.) Her daily average mileage is on the order of 35
>> mi+.
> 
> That 20% doesn't seem like much of a range buffer. Seems to me she's likely
> to run short in cold weather, and probably on hot summer days when whe wants
> aircon.
> 
> The range will fall as the battery ages, too. At 80% battery capacity, it
> won't be enough no matter what the conditions are.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[Willie via EV]

On 12/18/20 1:30 AM, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

What about a Model Y?  (too pricey?)


My thought also.  Though I haven't priced either, I seem to recall Ys 
being around $50k.  If Bob is buying new, I would guess the Y might be 
only around $10k more excluding FSD.  Because of the the high resale 
values of all Teslas, the gap will be greater for used cars.  But, the 
high resale is a positive rather than a negative, IMHO.


FSD is Full Self Driving; I believe that option is up to $10k now.  The 
good news is that you can buy later when it actually functions.  The bad 
news is that Tesla is raising prices as completion approaches.

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:18 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:



I also woudn't encourage anyone to trade with Toyota at all, given the
short
shrift they've given to true EVs for years.  But that's a different matter.


Ditto.  But they like their Prius.


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Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 12/18/20 12:01 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

I Need a new (and final) car for Wife.

For plugin SUV's it looks like the Toyota RAV4 Prime is a winner across the
board.
42 Miles EV range and 3 full size back row seats. (compared to Prius Prime
range of only 25 mi.)
Her daily average mileage is on the order of 35 mi+.

She has driven only prius since 2007 and loves it., but in future
as grandma, wants better 2nd row seating.
Am I missing anything?



There is also the Chystler Pacifica Plug in Hybrid [mini-van] (32 miles 
of EV range, but as others have pointed out, she's probably going to be 
hitting the gas engine every so often anyways) in the same price 
category with 7 seats.


And if you ever need do a hardware store run or pick up a new couch, you 
can stow-n-go the rear seats and detach the center row seats to fit a 
4x8 sheet flat inside. (which is the one feature I covet)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[(-Phil-) via EV]

What about a Model Y?  (too pricey?)

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 9:18 PM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 18 Dec 2020 at 0:01, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>
> > 42 Miles EV range and 3 full size back row seats. (compared to Prius
> > Prime range of only 25 mi.) Her daily average mileage is on the order of
> 35
> > mi+.
>
> That 20% doesn't seem like much of a range buffer.  Seems to me she's
> likely
> to run short in cold weather, and probably on hot summer days when whe
> wants
> aircon.
>
> The range will fall as the battery ages, too.  At 80% battery capacity, it
> won't be enough no matter what the conditions are.
>
> That said, I don't know the market situation for true hybrids, so I don't
> have a better suggestion.
>
> I also woudn't encourage anyone to trade with Toyota at all, given the
> short
> shrift they've given to true EVs for years.  But that's a different matter.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  If you aren't sure whether you can do this, just try it.
>  The worst thing that can happen is that your computer could
>  explode.
>
> -- GIMP Documentation
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Prius Prime or RAV4 Plugin Prime?

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 18 Dec 2020 at 0:01, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> 42 Miles EV range and 3 full size back row seats. (compared to Prius
> Prime range of only 25 mi.) Her daily average mileage is on the order of 35
> mi+.

That 20% doesn't seem like much of a range buffer.  Seems to me she's likely 
to run short in cold weather, and probably on hot summer days when whe wants 
aircon.  

The range will fall as the battery ages, too.  At 80% battery capacity, it 
won't be enough no matter what the conditions are.  

That said, I don't know the market situation for true hybrids, so I don't 
have a better suggestion.  

I also woudn't encourage anyone to trade with Toyota at all, given the short 
shrift they've given to true EVs for years.  But that's a different matter.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 If you aren't sure whether you can do this, just try it. 
 The worst thing that can happen is that your computer could 
 explode.  
 
-- GIMP Documentation 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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