Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

 Craig Vetter is the inventor of cruiser motorcycle fairings and had a mileage 
contest and has had great success in streamlining motorcycles. Lawrence Rhodes
http://craigvetter.com/pages/2012-Streamliner/2012-vetter-streamliner-p61-kit.html




   
  
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 14 Nov 2019 at 5:50, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Those are all hybrids  you would need to compare them to a hybrid
> motorcycle

No, they're not all hybrds.  The Honda Civic VX (52mpg), Honda Civic CRX HF 
(62mpg), and Chevrolet Sprint (53mpg) are all conventional ICEVs.  The 
Sprint even has a carburetor!  

There are probably dozens more totally conventional ICEVs that have gotten 
44mpg and more.  But they're no longer being made.  Modern ICEVs are grossly 
overpowered, and much less efficient than they could and should be.  

The reason for that is that most auto buyers 

(1) no longer care about efficiency; 

(2) insist on land-yacht-style luxuries that add weight and burn up energy;

(3) want vehicles big enough to haul around a literal ton of stuff; even 
though they're usually driven empty; and 

(4) have been convinced by ads that they need to be able to accelerate to 
60mph in less than 10 seconds. 

Besides, you missed my two main points from later in the post, and might 
again.  Maybe you should try using something with a more readable screen 
than an Iphone. :-)

(1) Comparing cars and motorcycles isn't all that useful, because they're 
such different vehicles and are used so differently.  

(2) The mpg-equivalent of e-motorcycles vs conventional MCs is a more useful 
comparison, and at about 460mpg-equivalent, at least one e-motorcycle 
outdoes Harley's 44mpg by more than 10 to 1.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[paul dove via EV]

Those are all hybrids  you would need to compare them to a hybrid motorcycle

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2019, at 8:47 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> On 13 Nov 2019 at 6:06, paul dove via EV wrote:
> 
>> Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg. 
>> 
>> What car gets 44 mpg?
> 
> 2016 Toyota Prius, 54mpg city.
> 
> 2015 Toyota Prius C (aka Yaris Hybrid), 53mpg city.
> 
> 2000 Honda Insight, 61mpg highway.  
> 
> 1995 Honda Civic VX, 52mpg highway. 
> 
> 1989 Honda Civic CRX HF, 62mpg highway.  
> 
> 1986 Chevrolet Sprint, 53mpg highway.  
> 
> (BTW, that old Sprint weighed just 1500lb.  For obvious reasons, it made a 
> pretty decent EV conversion.  So did some of the Hondas.)
> 
> (I also think it's intriguing and entertaining that the 1989 2-seat Honda 
> CRX HF, with a more or less normal ICE, got better highway mpg than the 
> highly streamlined and hybridized 2-seat 2000 Insight of about the same 
> size.) 
> 
> I expect that I could find more examples with a more exhaustive search, but  
> I don't really see the point of comparing a motorcycle's mpg to a car's.  
> They're totally different vehicles and are used totally differently.
> 
> For a more useful comparison,
> 
> https://www.liveabout.com/fuel-efficient-motorcycles-two-wheeled-2399396
> 
> has a list of ICE motorcycles that return from 63 to 85 mpg.
> 
> In the early 1960s, a "nifty, thrifty" Honda 50 got 225mpg.  You coudn't 
> really call that a motorcycle, though  It was more like a bike with a leaf 
> blower engine strapped to it.
> 
> To put this in even better perspective (and bring it back on topic), I've 
> seen an E-motorcycle -- can't recall which -- claiming something like 460 
> mpg-equivalent.  I don'l know how they computed that, or how valid it is, 
> but it beats 44mpg by better than ten to one.
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Cor van de Water via EV]

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 13 Nov 2019 at 6:06, paul dove via EV wrote:

> Harley-Davidson's fleet average fuel economy for 2018 was 44 mpg. 
> 
> What car gets 44 mpg?

2016 Toyota Prius, 54mpg city.

2015 Toyota Prius C (aka Yaris Hybrid), 53mpg city.

2000 Honda Insight, 61mpg highway.  

1995 Honda Civic VX, 52mpg highway. 

1989 Honda Civic CRX HF, 62mpg highway.  

1986 Chevrolet Sprint, 53mpg highway.  

(BTW, that old Sprint weighed just 1500lb.  For obvious reasons, it made a 
pretty decent EV conversion.  So did some of the Hondas.)

(I also think it's intriguing and entertaining that the 1989 2-seat Honda 
CRX HF, with a more or less normal ICE, got better highway mpg than the 
highly streamlined and hybridized 2-seat 2000 Insight of about the same 
size.) 

I expect that I could find more examples with a more exhaustive search, but  
I don't really see the point of comparing a motorcycle's mpg to a car's.  
They're totally different vehicles and are used totally differently.

For a more useful comparison,

https://www.liveabout.com/fuel-efficient-motorcycles-two-wheeled-2399396

has a list of ICE motorcycles that return from 63 to 85 mpg.

In the early 1960s, a "nifty, thrifty" Honda 50 got 225mpg.  You coudn't 
really call that a motorcycle, though  It was more like a bike with a leaf 
blower engine strapped to it.

To put this in even better perspective (and bring it back on topic), I've 
seen an E-motorcycle -- can't recall which -- claiming something like 460 
mpg-equivalent.  I don'l know how they computed that, or how valid it is, 
but it beats 44mpg by better than ten to one.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 12 Nov 2019 at 21:45, evtlfp20 via EV wrote:

> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph, so whats my watts
> per mile ? 

I don't know, how many horsepower per mile does your gas car use? :-\

Obviously horsepower per mile is a nonsense unit, and so is watts per mile 
(watts and horsepower both measure power).  What you want is Watt HOURS per 
mile.  

watts = volts * amps = 72 * 40 = 2880W at 40mph
A Watt-hour is defined as one watt expended for one hour.
Ride for one hour as described above, and you'll use 2880 watt hours to go 
40 miles.  So your energy use for that ride in watt-hours per mile is 2880 / 
40 == 72 Wh/mi.

Hope this helps.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Cor van de Water via EV]

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[paul dove via EV]

True but it probably pulls 300 amps during acceleration 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 12, 2019, at 11:01 PM, Cor van de Water via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> 40a x 72v = 2880 Watts of power.
> This is 2880 Wh (Watthour) of energy in an hour.
> In that hour you go 40 mi, so your efficiency is 2880/40 = 72 Wh/mi
> This is very low for an EV, but that is also due to low speed.
> At Freeway speed your consumption per mile will be much higher.
> My truck can achieve about 15kW at 60 MPH, which means 1/4 kWh/mi.
> Most EVs are capable of going 3-5 mi per kWh, which means an efficiency of
> between 200-333 Wh/mi. But this is typically spec'ed in mixed driving with
> freeway and city driving cycle. In city most EVs shine due to great
> efficiency at lower speeds, combined with regen.
> Cor.
> 
>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
>> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>> 
>> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
>> mile ?
>> 
>> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>> 
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Bill Dube via EV]

On 11/13/2019 8:44 PM, Paul Compton via EV wrote:

An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.


    This is the main problem with typical motorcycles. They are 
basically a brick, aerodynamically. This is compounded by the lack of 
space and load carrying ability for a decent battery pack. Very 
difficult to make an electric bike with decent range.


Bill D.



On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:


I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.

My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
mile ?

verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)





___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Paul Compton via EV]

An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:
>
>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>


-- 
Paul Compton
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Larry Gales via EV]

Another way of computing that is you get about 13.7 miles/kWh (40/2.88).
This compares with 4.3 miles/kWh over 10,000 miles for my long range Tesla
model 3

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 7:45 PM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:

>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

-- 
Larry Gales
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Cor van de Water via EV]

40a x 72v = 2880 Watts of power.
This is 2880 Wh (Watthour) of energy in an hour.
In that hour you go 40 mi, so your efficiency is 2880/40 = 72 Wh/mi
This is very low for an EV, but that is also due to low speed.
At Freeway speed your consumption per mile will be much higher.
My truck can achieve about 15kW at 60 MPH, which means 1/4 kWh/mi.
Most EVs are capable of going 3-5 mi per kWh, which means an efficiency of
between 200-333 Wh/mi. But this is typically spec'ed in mixed driving with
freeway and city driving cycle. In city most EVs shine due to great
efficiency at lower speeds, combined with regen.
Cor.

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019, 8:02 PM evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:

>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Bob Bath via EV]

My leaf averages 4.1 kWh/mi. Mostly in-town, which is close to your speed spec. 

Sincerely, 
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o. 
vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not 
cluelessness. 


> On Nov 12, 2019, at 7:45 PM, evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they are,  
> so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
> 
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per mile 
> ?
> 
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
> 
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)