Re: Holiday Exercise

2016-08-12 Thread John Clark 
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal  wrote:

"The" first person experience you will live is "the" experience, that both
> copies witnesses when I interview them both


​I saw only a apple, my friend saw only a banana, what is *THE* one and
only fruit that *BOTH* me *AND* my friend ​
​saw? Silly question.

John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Holiday Exercise

2016-08-12 Thread Bruno Marchal 


On 11 Aug 2016, at 20:18, John Clark wrote:



On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal   
wrote:


​>> ​in general it's not true that they will​ perceiving  
different things​, if you were the identical copy and in a  
symmetrical  environment and facing your original the two of you  
would see identical things, and if your position was instantaneously  
exchanged with the original there would be no change in your  
consciousness or of that of the original, neither of you could even  
tell an exchange had occurred. So in that situation how could it  
make sense to talk of "​two different consciousnesses" when there  
is clearly no difference between them?


​> ​And this shows that you agree (implicitly at least) that in  
the step 3 case, the two identical bodies interact with quite  
different environment, and get their consciousness bifurcating/ 
differentiating.


​Well of course I agree with that! One is conscious of Moscow and  
the other is conscious of Washington, how could anyone say that's  
not a difference, how could anyone say they're still identical?


​> ​The "identical copies"

​They were once identical but after seeing different cities ​they  
are now nonidentical copies. And yet both are the Helsinki man. And  
that is why establishing a personal sense of self can only come from  
remembering the past and never from trying to predict the future.


​> ​could not predict the first person result of the  
differentiation.


​Nobody and nothing will ever be able to predict ​"THE first  
person result of the differentiation"



And given that we survive such duplication (assuming computationalism)  
all what you say in this post confirms the unavoidable existence of  
the First Person Indeterminacy.


"The" first person experience you will live is "the" experience, that  
both copies witnesses when I interview them both, on their personal  
experience, using my mobile phone, after their reconstitution. QED.


Bruno




because after differentiation "THE first person result of the  
differentiation" is pure triple distilled extra virgin 100%  
gibberish.  Nobody will ever be able to predict "sjhfhzbawhfd" either.




 John K Clark


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,  
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.