Re: Holiday Exercise
On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> I saw only a apple, my friend saw only a banana, what is *THE* one and >> only fruit that *BOTH* me *AND* my friend saw? Silly question. > > > > > I agree so much with you on this! > > Although the question is not silly when asked to the Helsinki guy before > his duplication, as he will live, assuming computationalism, two different > first person continuations. > And here we go again with the "his" and "he" pronoun circus. John Clark will rephrase what Bruno Marchal said above but without using a "he" colored personal pronoun rug to sweep fuzzy thinking under: *The question of what one and only one city the Helsinki man will see after the Helsinki man is duplicated is not silly when asked to the Helsinki man before the Helsinki man's duplication, as after the Helsinki man's duplication the Helsinki man will live in 2 different cities. * John Clark disagrees, John Clark thinks that is a very very silly question. > > > No diary contains a description of the first person (conscious or not) > experience > Then there is no reason to ever refer to that stupid diary ever again. > > > > "I (here and now) saw directly, after opening the door > [] > Please specify which door the above refers to, the one in Moscow or the one in Washington. > > I recall the main tip that you seem to forget all the time: to get the > first person records, > Please specify exactly who's first person records should be gotten. > > > listen to your copies. > Please specify exactly who should be doing the listening. John K Clark > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: Holiday Exercise
On 12 Aug 2016, at 18:40, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
"The" first person experience you will live is "the" experience,
that both copies witnesses when I interview them both
I saw only a apple, my friend saw only a banana, what is THE one
and only fruit that BOTH me AND my friend saw? Silly question.
I agree so much with you on this!
Although the question is not silly when asked to the Helsinki guy
before his duplication, as he will live, assuming computationalism,
two different first person continuations.
Each of them is consistent with being the Helsinki guy, but are first
person inconsistent when taken together, as in this precise protocol,
computationalism makes the two copies into independent individual
persons.
(No diary contains a description of the first person (conscious or
not) experience:
"I (here and now) saw directly, after opening the door the two
cities").
As both copies are genuine survivors, we listen to them both, and both
told us that they got a non predictable bit of information: W or M
among {W, M}. With principle 1 and 2, it follows that the guy in
Helsinki was in a first person indeterminacy situation, and that
precise protocol suggests P(W) = P(M) = 1/2. Indeed its iteration
leads naturally to Pascal Triangle and the Gaussian curve as the
number of duplication is iterated.
I recall the main tip that you seem to forget all the time: to get the
first person records, listen to your copies.
Bruno
John K Clark
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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