Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector and Evolution Architecture
Hi , is there any where I can get more information about this, without actually reading the code itself? Thanks, lance --- Not Zed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You should be able to change stuff that doesn't involve changing the corba idl files, or just about any of the camel object definitions. On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 16:09, lance lim wrote: Hi All, I am a newbie at both Ximian Connector and Evolution and was wondering how these two components actually work togther. I wanted to customise the Evolution code, however, i need the Ximian Connector. Since the source code for Ximian Connector is not available, i am quite worried that any changes i did will affect the Ximian Connector functionality. Please advise, Thanks. Lance __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector and Evolution Architecture
You should be able to change stuff that doesn't involve changing the corba idl files, or just about any of the camel object definitions. On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 16:09, lance lim wrote: Hi All, I am a newbie at both Ximian Connector and Evolution and was wondering how these two components actually work togther. I wanted to customise the Evolution code, however, i need the Ximian Connector. Since the source code for Ximian Connector is not available, i am quite worried that any changes i did will affect the Ximian Connector functionality. Please advise, Thanks. Lance __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
If you order now, a CD with 1.0 will ship to you on the 14th. I'll buy 2 once Slackware makes it to the supported distributions ;) Regards, -- Ty Norton | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
How Ximian is percieved is very important to the open source community. If they fail then noone will put up capital to help open source companies get going and if they alienate the community by doing things in ways the seem deceptive they will fail and we will all lose. Good point, My first thought was why had I not heard of it, but then I guessed I missed it as I seldom view the ximian website and teend to skim my lists, offten ignoring announcemts that sound like they are not for me (I use pop mail, work form home and expect to stay that way till I retire, hopefully next year, but more likely not) But, lets all take a deep breath, Ximian is at heart a young company, founded by young folks like us, staffed mostly by young people, it all adds up to a lot of energy and little experience. I rememebr some of teh early ximian staff posts to teh evolution list were a bit high handed (you guys listen to us type mails) but they have settled down nicely... I feel like Ximian are here for teh long haul, and that there was no intentinal deception, and the fact that it looks like there might have been probably means that next time there wont be... Live and learn. And I love evolution, it is so needed! -- Rob Brown-Bayliss ---==o==--- ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
Just to clarify my feelings on this matter, I am a big supporter of Ximian and of making money. That's why I am so concerned about Ximian's image. They are the poster child for open source companies looking to make a living by both creating software and at the same time supporting the open source community. I am very aware of what happened to Eazel and I don't want to see anything negative happen to Ximian. From the beginning I have planned on buying copies of the software that Ximian has helped develop for all of us just as I have with Suse and Redhat and I will continue to support open source companies in the future. Stephen P.S. Debian is on my short list of software to buy on CD next. On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 20:25, Brian wrote: On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. *DISCLAIMER*: Don't take this personally, Stephen, as I'm not aiming this square at you. This is a general rant. SOAPBOX So what if they did make a proprietary plug-in and had it planned all along? They've given us a great mailer that's completely standards compliant and 100% free! I consider myself just as much of a GPL/FSF supporting guy but jeez ... do I feel betrayed by Ximian because they didn't clue me in about a plug-in that is of no use to me anyway? In a word: NO! They have to make money somehow and giving away software *isn't* it. If people find their making proprietary software distasteful then they should ante up and buy either their standard or professional edition of Ximian Gnome (I plan on doing it once 1.0 is on the CD that I'm buying). Why is the Linux community filled with folks who find simple economics distasteful?? I myself have watched with baited breath ... hoping Ximian wouldn't go the way of Eazel once its product hit 1.0. Ximian's been a software company whose primary products were stuffed monkeys and t-shirts until recently. How can we, the community, leech the efforts that they're funding and then complain when they attempt to support themselves? They are a business, they must sell software to stay in business. Their proprietary plug-in is of use to those who already languish in a closed source environment. This has no bearing on those of us who use/support open standards. When it does, then I'll bitch! /SOAPBOX B ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. I can see how it might seem that way. A big component of the timing was not wanting to announce it before we could start demoing it and giving out evaluation copies to potential customers. We weren't trying to trick anyone, but we didn't want to announce it and then ask people who wanted to buy it to wait 6 months before they could see a demo :-). Best, Nat ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 20:25, Brian wrote: *isn't* it. If people find their making proprietary software distasteful then they should ante up and buy either their standard or professional edition of Ximian Gnome (I plan on doing it once 1.0 is on the CD that I'm buying). If you order now, a CD with 1.0 will ship to you on the 14th. Nat ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 22:08, Nat Friedman wrote: On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. I can see how it might seem that way. A big component of the timing was not wanting to announce it before we could start demoing it and giving out evaluation copies to potential customers. We weren't trying to trick anyone, but we didn't want to announce it and then ask people who wanted to buy it to wait 6 months before they could see a demo :-). Thanks for the explanation Nat, being open and not taking comments like mine as flames goes a long ways since they were only made out of concern for Ximian's long term success. Stephen ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 19:08, Nat Friedman wrote: On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. I can see how it might seem that way. A big component of the timing was not wanting to announce it before we could start demoing it and giving out evaluation copies to potential customers. We weren't trying to trick anyone, but we didn't want to announce it and then ask people who wanted to buy it to wait 6 months before they could see a demo :-). Best, Nat I would agree with that. Ximian is a company that that needs to into consideration such non-trivial details like revenue and saleable products. Regarding the timing of the Connector announcement, I have no problems with it. I am rather tired of hearing about great products, commercial or open-source, eagerly bite my nails for 6-12 months, and end up being disappointed with the thing when it finally does arrive. Evolution is one of the best pieces of software I have seen on any platform, and I am an ex-die-hard Mac user who has seen some awesome applications. True, I still have some problems with Evolution (I still can't get spell-checking to work), and some speed issues could be improved, but the fact that Ximian put in all this work under GPL is awesome. In that spirit, I would volunteer for evaluating the Connector. We don't have an Exchange server yet, but the beast is coming in the next few weeks, and I was getting worried about the calendaring issue. Ujwal ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 19:08, Nat Friedman wrote: On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. I can see how it might seem that way. A big component of the timing was not wanting to announce it before we could start demoing it and giving out evaluation copies to potential customers. We weren't trying to trick anyone, but we didn't want to announce it and then ask people who wanted to buy it to wait 6 months before they could see a demo :-). I see that you are talking about only Exchange 2000. Any chance that there will be back-porting to the Exchange 5.5 platform, for those of us in a situation where we can't get upgraded to 2000 in a short timeframe? Just curious. Mike Strock [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Wed, 2001-12-05 at 18:14, Dan Winship wrote: I see that you are talking about only Exchange 2000. Any chance that there will be back-porting to the Exchange 5.5 platform, for those of us in a situation where we can't get upgraded to 2000 in a short timeframe? As mentioned in the press release, we will be releasing a connector for 5.5 later on. I think it says the first half of 2002 but I wouldn't swear to that. Thanks Dan. Sorry for not reading it closely enough. Mike Strock [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
Hello Chris, What's the problem here? It isn't like this is the first bit of commercial software for Linux or UNIX. -gasp- what a revelation: A company that is in it for the money! For me, the Connector is a lifesaver and I only wish they'd announced a little earlier while I was still on a wild goose chase for a Linux - Outlook/Exchange Calendaring interoperatibility (sp) solution. $69 to hook up a Linux machine to an existing network is still a big money saver for corporations, heck, a license of Windows 9x costs more than that. You'd save boatloads on security alone. I can easily imagine this to be a big market. I know that *I* will bug my boss to get me a license so I can get rid of my Win2k Workstation. As for the GPL vs. Proprietary issue, what's the big deal? How about a forked version, or a plugin or something like that. It's all been done before and we still have a free OS, don't we? Just because the EvoEx Connector is proprietary doesn't mean the OS - or even Evo for that matter - isn't. What good is Linux on the Workstation if it cannot talk to the rest of the world? Now if Ximian dumps support/development of Free Evo in favor of Proprietary Evo, that's when you can start to get all bitchy. ;-) No offense meant by any of what I say. Best wishes, - Nils -Original Message- From: Chris Ball [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 01:20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector? On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:40:48PM -0800, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: This sounds really interesting. .. furthermore, it sounds like a wonderful business model, given that nothing else really does this yet. It seems that even Evolution doesn't, from the examples of discussion on here that I've seen - for example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. Anyway. Someone had to rant. I think the more fair argument is that, well, /I/ haven't put any code into Evo. And most of us haven't. And there's no way in hell it'd be here if Ximian hadn't hired people and all of this, so it's at least justified. But enough. I'm off to try and get my 1.0 install alive again. - ~C, a little disillusioned. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector
Hello Ximian, I'll second that, if this is a possibility please get in touch with me and I'll bug my superiours until they cave. Best wishes, Nils -Original Message- From: David Hoover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Montag, 3. Dezember 2001 22:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Evolution] Ximian Connector Are you guys looking for testers for Ximian Connector while it's in development? In another week or so, we'll be forced onto Exchange 2000 here where I work. I'd personally be more than willing to pay the $70 up-front if possible to get development copies file bugs against it. Just thought I'd offer, since more testers could be useful. (Plus, I sure as hell don't want to have to do my meeting scheduling through OWA :P) -- David Hoover ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 01:19, Chris Ball wrote: On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:40:48PM -0800, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: This sounds really interesting. .. furthermore, it sounds like a wonderful business model, given that nothing else really does this yet. It seems that even Evolution doesn't, from the examples of discussion on here that I've seen - for example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? I assume that the connector will be a plugin that uses bonobo to do it's stuff. Therefore everything in evo will still be the same. What I would like to see is a evolution server that's GPL'ed and then a plugin to it for outlook-capability. That plugin can be proprietary for all I care. In my company most people are running either outlook or evolution but there is no way we will install a windows-server just for serving calendars and the like. /Erik -- Erik Bågfors | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Supporter of free software | GSM +46 733 279 273 fingerprint: A85B 95D3 D26B 296B 6C60 4F32 2C0B 693D 6E32 ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 03:04, Jeppe, Nils wrote: Now if Ximian dumps support/development of Free Evo in favor of Proprietary Evo, that's when you can start to get all bitchy. ;-) Just to clarify: We're not making a proprietary Evolution. We're making a proprietary connector which is separate from Evolution and which uses CORBA to talk to Evolution. Evolution itself is free. Nat ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
I did not assume otherwise. - Nils -Original Message- From: Nat Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 15:00 To: Jeppe, Nils Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector? On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 03:04, Jeppe, Nils wrote: Now if Ximian dumps support/development of Free Evo in favor of Proprietary Evo, that's when you can start to get all bitchy. ;-) Just to clarify: We're not making a proprietary Evolution. We're making a proprietary connector which is separate from Evolution and which uses CORBA to talk to Evolution. Evolution itself is free. Nat ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector
Me too I would glady fork over the dough to be a beta tester too, if the option exists. Thanks, Aaron On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 03:06, Jeppe, Nils wrote: Hello Ximian, I'll second that, if this is a possibility please get in touch with me and I'll bug my superiours until they cave. Best wishes, Nils ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
Yep, I just wanted to make sure everyone (i.e. not necessarily you) understood :-). Best, Nat On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 09:20, Jeppe, Nils wrote: I did not assume otherwise. - Nils -Original Message- From: Nat Friedman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 15:00 To: Jeppe, Nils Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector? On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 03:04, Jeppe, Nils wrote: Now if Ximian dumps support/development of Free Evo in favor of Proprietary Evo, that's when you can start to get all bitchy. ;-) Just to clarify: We're not making a proprietary Evolution. We're making a proprietary connector which is separate from Evolution and which uses CORBA to talk to Evolution. Evolution itself is free. Nat ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 01:02, Ibukun Okitika wrote: The thing is, in a perfect world, Richard Stallman would be in good terms with every Tom, Dick and Harry in the corporate world. Of course that's a ridiculous thought. I was reading the article on The Register about this, and I thought it was generally an excellent business decision by Ximian. I've seen enough bankruptcies and depressing economic news (add to that the general mass failures of open source companies like VA) to know that a GPL'ed company cannot survive in today's economy. Ximian must make money, and they've decided to go about it in the best way possible. I think any reasonable person should be supportive of them in this decision. Well said. To my mind, the central hub which makes or breaks an open source company is its focus on the very nature of service. If a business seeks to redefine service in terms of control, then that business practice is unethical. However, if the business takes a posture of serving, of enabling, of fostering the success of individuals and other organizations, then that company is doing the right thing. It's a tenuous balance between the right to get paid for the work performed and the focus on serving others. But, properly handling that tension will make an open source company succeed. A smart company will be very sensitive to how its customers (and its competitor's customers) perceive whether it is serving or controlling. IMO, the Ximian connector is a step in the right direction. The problem is that Microsoft positioned Exchange as a means of control. The trick for any company that fights in that space is going to be to break the control without itself projecting a desire to control nor simply feigning a service attitude. It will be very interesting to see (and watch) how Ximian maintains its integrity while performing this extremely difficult task. Well, that's my opinion. Ximian, I'm cheer'n for ya. -- Mike Sangrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Landisburg, Pa. The first one last wins. A net of highly cohesive details reveals the truth. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
Just to clarify: We're not making a proprietary Evolution. We're making a proprietary connector which is separate from Evolution and which uses CORBA to talk to Evolution. Evolution itself is free. Sounds good, hope the dollars roll in as deserved. -- Rob Brown-Bayliss ---==o==--- ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. Don't get me wrong, I think Ximian should absolutely be able to make money, and make money on Evolution in whatever way they see fit but the appearance of deception doesn't do anything for their image amongst the Linux community. It opens them up to people asking themselves what else they aren't saying about their plans for red-carpet and gnome. This is especially since they have such a strong position on the gnome-foundation board. How Ximian is percieved is very important to the open source community. If they fail then noone will put up capital to help open source companies get going and if they alienate the community by doing things in ways the seem deceptive they will fail and we will all lose. Stephen On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 03:04, Jeppe, Nils wrote: Hello Chris, What's the problem here? It isn't like this is the first bit of commercial software for Linux or UNIX. -gasp- what a revelation: A company that is in it for the money! For me, the Connector is a lifesaver and I only wish they'd announced a little earlier while I was still on a wild goose chase for a Linux - Outlook/Exchange Calendaring interoperatibility (sp) solution. $69 to hook up a Linux machine to an existing network is still a big money saver for corporations, heck, a license of Windows 9x costs more than that. You'd save boatloads on security alone. I can easily imagine this to be a big market. I know that *I* will bug my boss to get me a license so I can get rid of my Win2k Workstation. As for the GPL vs. Proprietary issue, what's the big deal? How about a forked version, or a plugin or something like that. It's all been done before and we still have a free OS, don't we? Just because the EvoEx Connector is proprietary doesn't mean the OS - or even Evo for that matter - isn't. What good is Linux on the Workstation if it cannot talk to the rest of the world? Now if Ximian dumps support/development of Free Evo in favor of Proprietary Evo, that's when you can start to get all bitchy. ;-) No offense meant by any of what I say. Best wishes, - Nils -Original Message- From: Chris Ball [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2001 01:20 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector? On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:40:48PM -0800, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: This sounds really interesting. .. furthermore, it sounds like a wonderful business model, given that nothing else really does this yet. It seems that even Evolution doesn't, from the examples of discussion on here that I've seen - for example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. Anyway. Someone had to rant. I think the more fair argument is that, well, /I/ haven't put any code into Evo. And most of us haven't. And there's no way in hell it'd be here if Ximian hadn't hired people and all of this, so it's at least justified. But enough. I'm off to try and get my 1.0 install alive again. - ~C, a little disillusioned. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 19:09, Stephen Witkop wrote: The only problem that I have with this is the timing. Ximian Connector has obviously been planned for some time, so why wasn't it laid out along with all the other plans for evolution. It just makes it seem as though Ximian was afraid they would lose support among developers and users so they didn't announce anything until they had what they wanted. I'm not saying that's what they were actually doing but that's certainly the way it seems. *DISCLAIMER*: Don't take this personally, Stephen, as I'm not aiming this square at you. This is a general rant. SOAPBOX So what if they did make a proprietary plug-in and had it planned all along? They've given us a great mailer that's completely standards compliant and 100% free! I consider myself just as much of a GPL/FSF supporting guy but jeez ... do I feel betrayed by Ximian because they didn't clue me in about a plug-in that is of no use to me anyway? In a word: NO! They have to make money somehow and giving away software *isn't* it. If people find their making proprietary software distasteful then they should ante up and buy either their standard or professional edition of Ximian Gnome (I plan on doing it once 1.0 is on the CD that I'm buying). Why is the Linux community filled with folks who find simple economics distasteful?? I myself have watched with baited breath ... hoping Ximian wouldn't go the way of Eazel once its product hit 1.0. Ximian's been a software company whose primary products were stuffed monkeys and t-shirts until recently. How can we, the community, leech the efforts that they're funding and then complain when they attempt to support themselves? They are a business, they must sell software to stay in business. Their proprietary plug-in is of use to those who already languish in a closed source environment. This has no bearing on those of us who use/support open standards. When it does, then I'll bitch! /SOAPBOX B ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
RE: [Evolution] Ximian Connector
Hi. We have enough beta testers for now. I'm not sure what the schedule of beta testing / early sales / whatever will be as we get closer to the release date. If you're interested in betaing [if we do end up having more betas later], or just want to talk about buying, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dan ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? (As mentioned by Nat, Evo == GPL, the Connector is a plug-in.) Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? iCalendar is just a data format (for describing events, meetings, tasks, etc.). iMIP describes how to send iCalendar objects by mail (which Evolution and Outlook both support). There is a protocol called CAP that describes how to talk to calendar servers, but it isn't finished yet. Anyway, as far as Evolution is concerned, the Exchange server is just another backend that it can read and write iCalendar objects to/from. The Connector deals with the details of talking to the server and doing what translation is necessary. People using the Connector will still be able to do p2p scheduling with people who aren't, etc. Does that answer your question? -- Dan ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 18:40, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: I just read about the Ximian Connector for interacting with MS Exchange. The announcement says the the release date is early next year? Can someone narrow that down to any calendar month/week? Nope, but here's a screenshot: http://primates.ximian.com/~danw/connector.png -- Dan ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, Dec 04, 2001 at 10:00:45AM -0500, Dan Winship wrote: Anyway, as far as Evolution is concerned, the Exchange server is just another backend that it can read and write iCalendar objects to/from. The Connector deals with the details of talking to the server and doing what translation is necessary. People using the Connector will still be able to do p2p scheduling with people who aren't, etc. Does that answer your question? It does. And I'd like to add my agreement with just about everyone else who's posted in reply to my original mail. With you all the way. - ~C. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Tue, 2001-12-04 at 17:07, Dan Winship wrote: On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 18:40, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: I just read about the Ximian Connector for interacting with MS Exchange. The announcement says the the release date is early next year? Can someone narrow that down to any calendar month/week? Nope, but here's a screenshot: http://primates.ximian.com/~danw/connector.png -- Dan ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution This looks really great! I have not seen the announcement yet, but I will be interested in this if it is affordable for me. Will there be a single-user license for individual use? I use Evolution at work to read my exchange mail, but the calendar and address list is a problem for me. Every time I am invited to a meeting, I have to log into the exchange server via the web interface to acknowledge a meeting, then I have to add the meeting manually to my Evolution calendar. My company is not going to change their exchange server settings just to suit me. They don't even support the IMAP I am using. But this way still beats running Windoze just to read mail. The Evolution plugin will make my life easier and maybe I can convince a few other people to also use Evolution. There are more and more people running a Linux desktop and a Windoze desktop. I am running two Linux desktops ... :-) So, keep up the good work! -- Andre Truter Software Engineer - The box said: Requires Windows 95 or better... So I installed Linux - ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:40:48PM -0800, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: This sounds really interesting. .. furthermore, it sounds like a wonderful business model, given that nothing else really does this yet. It seems that even Evolution doesn't, from the examples of discussion on here that I've seen - for example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. Anyway. Someone had to rant. I think the more fair argument is that, well, /I/ haven't put any code into Evo. And most of us haven't. And there's no way in hell it'd be here if Ximian hadn't hired people and all of this, so it's at least justified. But enough. I'm off to try and get my 1.0 install alive again. - ~C, a little disillusioned. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
On Mon, 2001-12-03 at 19:19, Chris Ball wrote: How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? I wonder that myself. I hope that Ximian will develop an open source calendaring backend. But I don't begrudge them for trying to make money in the meantime ... It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. That might be jumping the gun a bit. Maybe they will solicit the help of the Evolution community. This is the first we, the community, has heard of this plugin but that's not to say Ximian won't ask for some field testing ... And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop Uh, it *IS* all that. There are plenty of us using open standards compliant mail servers (that speak POP/IMAP) to which Evolution is a godsend. I've used Unix for years and I was tired of having a pretty desktop and still having to read my mail in an f'ing xterm because no graphical email client supported IMAP worth a damn (don't say Netscape! It sucked as a browser and it sucked as an email client). In its present incarnation, Evolution is MIGHTY fine and appreciated. is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. The better question is which is cheaper: licensing multiple copies of Outlook or the Evolution plugin? Brian ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. I think the Exchange connector plug-in is a great idea, and I hope it brings Ximian lots of money -- enough to justify continued development of Evolution and their other cool stuff. (In fact, I'd really be interested if Ximian let us know in the future how successful the product was.) Of course, I probably only say that because I'm not an Exchange user. :) But I don't think we have to start again, as you say, if some day Ximian creates a free alternative to Exchange Server that works with Evolution. Since we're on that topic, Ximian may be thinking about charging for that server software. If they do, I hope they keep in mind that people like me have 3 systems (work system, home computer, and laptop) that I like to keep synchronized, and I'd hate to have to fork over big bucks server-side software I'm using personally. Even better is if it will be GPLed. :) Cheers, Jason. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
I think it's a perfect idea to give away this great email client but charge the exchange lusers...er users. I'm sure there will be lots of choices for backends, some of them free, some of them extremely pricey (coughOracle 9i/cough). In the end I'm sure charging for exchange connectivity will not only help Ximian survive but will also help drive forward the quest for an open and free replacement for Exchange and help Linux desktops invade the enterprise. A three birds with one stone situation. Brady On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:40:48PM -0800, Ujwal S. Sathyam wrote: This sounds really interesting. .. furthermore, it sounds like a wonderful business model, given that nothing else really does this yet. It seems that even Evolution doesn't, from the examples of discussion on here that I've seen - for example, our calendaring at the moment is p2p, right? How will Evo(GPL) handle this when Evo(Proprietary) appears? Is it really planned to have a version of iCal that wanders around client-client as well as a version that talks to servers? It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. Anyway. Someone had to rant. I think the more fair argument is that, well, /I/ haven't put any code into Evo. And most of us haven't. And there's no way in hell it'd be here if Ximian hadn't hired people and all of this, so it's at least justified. But enough. I'm off to try and get my 1.0 install alive again. - ~C, a little disillusioned. -- $a=printf.net; Chris Ball | chris@void.$a | www.$a | finger: chris@$a As to luck, there's the old miners' proverb: Gold is where you find it. ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution ___ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
Re: [Evolution] Ximian Connector?
It all sounds a bit, um, icky. And I'm guessing that the development of the connector isn't going to be at all publically discussed. And I'm a little frustrated that the mail client that I thought was this huge effort on the part of the community to write the app that's going to be a /huge/ part in bringing Linux to the desktop is only going to be the answer to Outlook in a Yeah, use Evolution. It's cool. Oh, but you have to pay for Exchange interoperability. way, and that no-one mentioned this before. Feels almost like we have to start again, to find another way of arguing Linux is free. You can do _this_ with it. to our bosses. The thing is, in a perfect world, Richard Stallman would be in good terms with every Tom, Dick and Harry in the corporate world. Of course that's a ridiculous thought. I was reading the article on The Register about this, and I thought it was generally an excellent business decision by Ximian. I've seen enough bankruptcies and depressing economic news (add to that the general mass failures of open source companies like VA) to know that a GPL'ed company cannot survive in today's economy. Ximian must make money, and they've decided to go about it in the best way possible. I think any reasonable person should be supportive of them in this decision. As far as the linux is free thing, you must first of all consider that Exchange is not linux, is not open source, and is not free. So since the company is already using a proprietary server solution, they should be ready to pay for a proprietary client anyhow. They would still save a good deal of money (compare connector cost to that of Windows + MS office, and don't forget the virus factor) by switching to Linux. However, I do wish that the Open Source community had an answer for MS Exchange. Then yes, we can begin to sound the linux is free trumpet without any moral reservatinos. Ibukun msg03823/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
