Re: [Evolution] downloads page
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 01:43 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Why does Evo have a gui interface? Why not just stay with the command-line? Please start a NEW THREAD when having a new topic. Your question has nothing to do with downloads page. To answer your question: Because Evolution is a MUA[1] application and not MTA[2] application, and because there is no need to reinvent the wheel. If you want an MTA, use Sendmail or fetchmail. If you want a command-line MUA, use Mutt or something similar. andre [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
Hi :) It is part of the same question. I'm just having to reach a lot further back than i expected. Lets look at another tack. Why is Evo having to drop from a 6 monthly to a 1/year release? Does it lack personnel? Do the devs often find themselves caught-up in answering questions instead of doing coding? Why aren't more normal users able to help users with common questions? Regards from Tom :) From: Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net To: evolution-list evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 9:42 Subject: Re: [Evolution] downloads page On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 01:43 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Why does Evo have a gui interface? Why not just stay with the command-line? Please start a NEW THREAD when having a new topic. Your question has nothing to do with downloads page. To answer your question: Because Evolution is a MUA[1] application and not MTA[2] application, and because there is no need to reinvent the wheel. If you want an MTA, use Sendmail or fetchmail. If you want a command-line MUA, use Mutt or something similar. andre [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 10:38 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) It is part of the same question. I'm just having to reach a lot further back than i expected. Lets look at another tack. Why is Evo having to drop from a 6 monthly to a 1/year release? Does it lack personnel? Do the devs often find themselves caught-up in answering questions instead of doing coding? Why aren't more normal users able to help users with common questions? Regards from Tom :) __ From: Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net To: evolution-list evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 9:42 Subject: Re: [Evolution] downloads page On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 01:43 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Why does Evo have a gui interface? Why not just stay with the command-line? Please start a NEW THREAD when having a new topic. Your question has nothing to do with downloads page. To answer your question: Because Evolution is a MUA[1] application and not MTA[2] application, and because there is no need to reinvent the wheel. If you want an MTA, use Sendmail or fetchmail. If you want a command-line MUA, use Mutt or something similar. andre [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_transfer_agent It's explained here: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2013-July/msg00162.html Should the other users from this list exclusively work for you? Search the web and archive first on your own or is your intend trolling? Fortunately filtering emails is easy to do. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 10:38 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Lets look at another tack. Why is Evo having to drop from a 6 monthly to a 1/year release? Check the mailing list archives if you want to know why. Does it lack personnel? Always, as with every FLOSS project. Do the devs often find themselves caught-up in answering questions instead of doing coding? No. Why aren't more normal users able to help users with common questions? That's a loaded question, like How often do you beat your wife?. You already assume that more normal users are not able to help users. I don't share that initial assumption. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
Hi :) I do remember it well. I was wondering if you did. The line that stuck with me was The team's manpower is still severely limited and i foolishly thought that was something you were keen to change. The question would then be how do we increase the teams 'man'power. However it is becoming clearer and clearer that the opposite is true. This project seems keen to exclude outsider and make sure that new people are discouraged from taking part. Regards from Tom :) From: Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net To: evolution-list evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 11:24 Subject: Re: [Evolution] downloads page On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 10:38 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Lets look at another tack. Why is Evo having to drop from a 6 monthly to a 1/year release? Check the mailing list archives if you want to know why. Does it lack personnel? Always, as with every FLOSS project. Do the devs often find themselves caught-up in answering questions instead of doing coding? No. Why aren't more normal users able to help users with common questions? That's a loaded question, like How often do you beat your wife?. You already assume that more normal users are not able to help users. I don't share that initial assumption. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
is your intend trolling? I'm beginning to think trolling is indeed the underlying intent. P. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 11:57 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I do remember it well. I was wondering if you did. Likely. But why did you ask if you knew the answer already? The line that stuck with me was The team's manpower is still severely limited and i foolishly thought that was something you were keen to change. Sure, more *good* developers are good. It did not sound like you talked about developers though, but more about users. The question would then be how do we increase the teams 'man'power. However it is becoming clearer and clearer that the opposite is true. Increasing (wo)manpower for the sake of increasing (wo)manpower won't solve problems. Bringing good people into the project, helping them grow, and making it attractive to stick around sounds like a better way to achieve increasing (wo)manpower as a side effect. This project seems keen to exclude outsider and make sure that new people are discouraged from taking part. If input comes across as I know better than you what your needs are and how you can achieve them though input was meant to be helpful, such an impression can unfortunately be created. I guess you are simply (still) more idealistic than e.g. me, which can create misunderstandings. How would you like to actively take part, and how can we help you? andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Google calendars stopped working in Evolution
Milan Crha mc...@redhat.com writes: I'm not aware of any issue of this type with Google calendars, and I do not expect you did anything wrong, though please make sure you have checked to use SSL (secure connection) with the Google server I found no way of selecting or deselecting it. (I do not know how it's named in your ancient version). I know, it is ancient. However, it is the version that RHEL6 offers, and that's what I got on my work computer. :) $ CALDAV_DEBUG=all /usr/libexec/evolution-data-server-2.28 Thanks! This helped a lot! It turned out that the password was the problem after all. :) I changed password on the google account right before the summer holiday (because my laptop was stolen :( ), and even though I gave the correct (new) password when asked to list the available calendars in the account, evolution still used the old password when trying to load the google calendar. In the end, the following procedure worked: Work Offline, Forget passwords, Work Online, restart evolution, reenter the password. -- Regards, Bjørn-Helge Mevik, dr. scient, Department for Research Computing, University of Oslo ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
Hi :) WooHoo, thanks :))) Yes, idealistic but i've seen it happen a few times. Quality often seems to come with quantity. I've often found that some of the most amazing people don't realise they are worth much and even seem to be trouble until they find their niche. In anarchist/co-operative groups it's often been the most disruptive people that got turned around by the nature of the group/organisation and become a driving force, even Chairperson or Company Secretary. However to find those gems the group accepts tons of people and although most of those turn out to help in minor ways with easy things it's difficult to always see exactly what they are doing. Mostly helping noobs means the noob is able to help even newer noobs next time and gains greater understanding in the process, becoming less of a noob and thus able to help more and for most it's a slow and gradual process. At each point hopefully some of the existing people get freed-up or develop skills or someone new arrives with skills already or lurkers find they are able to join in. So the initial problem to go from a small elite force, such as Evo currently is (apart from a few lurkers and people such as me) is to manage to attract a fair amount of new people. Hopefully some of those can help with infra-structure to help cope with more people so that the project can up-scale further. I think some of the 1st things that Evo needs to help make itself grow is 1. Easier to download and install. People here obviously find it easy to compile but most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. 2. Some sort of forum This can be outsourced. Many people who insist on top-posting might well be even happier with a forum. However it might be a hassle to set-up so i reckon this is the task to aim for in round 2 with some of the new people getting involved in setting it up. There are existing resources such as www.linuxquestions.org or launchpad but it's better to have an address such as www.evolution-forums.org (which is currently available apparently). I suspect that would cost a bit to set-up and i don't know where the initial funding would come from. 3. A donations button but nice and discrete so that it's clear people are free to download and use without donating. Preferably on the Downloads page or/and the Home page and on the forums or do the same as Wikipedia and have 1 month every year where donations are asked for. It's not as easy as it sounds because it needs a bank account and some accountancy/bookkeeping to produce reports. My guess is that Gnome could help with that to start with. If their bookkeeper spent a couple of hours per month on Evo i doubt they would even notice. Hopefully enough money would eventually start to be generated to pay the bookkeeper and repay Gnome. When you fixed the problem i was having and got Evo working on one machine i was almost ready to donate even though i am a little scottish and very careful about avoiding spending. If Evo had a donate button in easy reach i might have clicked it for some small amount, maybe $5 or $10. If i can get it working across all the desktops i might tell my boss we need to pay a tad more! (although we would need a receipt or paper-work of some kind so that might not be so easy unless Evo had a bookkeeper) So, there are ways to start unblocking people's uptake of Evo and that might lead to more people joining in and that might well lead to finding some gems amongst the people joining. Regards from Tom :) From: Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net To: evolution-list evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 13:25 Subject: Re: [Evolution] downloads page Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 11:57 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I do remember it well. I was wondering if you did. Likely. But why did you ask if you knew the answer already? The line that stuck with me was The team's manpower is still severely limited and i foolishly thought that was something you were keen to change. Sure, more *good* developers are good. It did not sound like you talked about developers though, but more about users. The question would then be how do we increase the teams 'man'power. However it is becoming clearer and clearer that the opposite is true. Increasing (wo)manpower for the sake of increasing (wo)manpower won't solve problems. Bringing good people into the project, helping them grow, and making it attractive to stick around sounds like a better way to achieve increasing (wo)manpower as a side effect. This project seems keen to exclude outsider and make sure that new people are discouraged from taking part. If input comes across as I know better than you what your needs are and
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
1. Easier to download and install. Yea gods, how many times do we have to go round this. Evo *is* very easy to install, it's in virtually every distros default repository. How much easier does it have to be. Evolution is a well behaved, integral part of Gnome 3. As such it relies on many other Gnome 3 packages to work. You can't have a single monolithic download for Evolution without taking into account all these other packages and libraries, not to mention all the auxiliary Evolution packages such as eds and evolution-ews People here obviously find it easy to compile but most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. THERE IS NO COMPETITION. Thunderbird, Claws etc are not competitors of Evolution. They are purely other programs which have a similar, but differing, feature set. I think you would be much better off comparing Evolution with other Gnome 3 projects - you can find a list at https://projects.gnome.org/ - rather than trying to draw comparisons with applications that are designed to be standalone. P. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 14:24 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: 1. Easier to download and install. People here obviously find it easy to compile but most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. The way to install Evolution, Thunderbird, Claws, ... is the same on every distribution that ships recent versions: You go to your distribution's software management application and install it. No websites included in this process. 2. Some sort of forum Evolution is part of GNOME. http://forums.worldofgnome.org/ is the GNOME forum I recommend. 3. A donations button Evolution is part of GNOME. There is https://www.gnome.org/friends/ . GNOME has also been thinking about using Flattr. In general donations are welcome, but money might not solve the problems that you're thinking about, while (wo)manpower would. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
[Evolution] 6 months to 12 months [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 11:57 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: The question would then be how do we increase the teams 'man'power. Contribute! -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awill...@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
[Evolution] 6 months to 12 months [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 10:38 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: It is part of the same question. I'm just having to reach a lot further back than i expected. Lets look at another tack. Why is Evo having to drop from a 6 monthly to a 1/year release? Does it lack personnel? Do the devs often find themselves caught-up in answering questions instead of doing coding? Seriously? This was discussed on the evolution-hackers@ list, that discussion is publicly archived. Are you just trolling? -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awill...@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
[Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 14:24 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Quality often seems to come with quantity. Eh? In anarchist/co-operative groups it's often been the most disruptive people that got turned around by the nature of the group/organisation and become a driving force, even Chairperson or Company Secretary. What are you talking about? This is a FLOSS project. However to find those gems the group accepts tons of people and although most of those turn out to help in minor ways with easy things it's difficult to always see exactly what they are doing. No, with FLOSS the process of winnowing the developers happens naturally, with the emphasis being on people who winnow themselves out. 1. Easier to download and install. People here obviously find it easy to compile but What? You are engaging in blatant conflations. Users are not developers, users will never compile anything. most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. I install a LINUX distribution, then I install Evolution from there. THAT IS HOW LINUX SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION WORKS, VIA THE ***DISTRIBUTION*** - HENCE THE NAME DISTRIBUTION! 2. Some sort of forum There is one, you are in it! 3. A donations button And donate to whom? How many FLOSS projects have you actively participated in or contributed to? When you fixed the problem i was having and got Evo working on one machine i was almost ready to donate even though i am a little scottish and very careful about avoiding spending. If Evo had a donate button in easy reach i might have clicked it for some small amount, maybe $5 or $10. There are several websites that allow you to post bounties on project bugs. I have bounties on project bugs, including ones on Evolution. Some have been closed. Generally the developer's response is - I don't care. In the past I've offered as much as several hundred dollars on a bug, had it closed, and been told by the developer he didn't care about the bounty. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awill...@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 19:39 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 11:57 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: The question would then be how do we increase the teams 'man'power. However it is becoming clearer and clearer that the opposite is true. This project seems keen to exclude outsider and make sure that new people are discouraged from taking part. I don't know, but at least I couldn't win this impression by reading this mailing list. For other projects I won the impression that a common why is to send patches that fix bugs. If somebody does send good packages very often she/he might get privileges. ^ a typo ;) patches ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] downloads page
JFTR every distro is free to have it's own policy and usually they've got reasons for doing things the way they do it. FWIW I'm an Arch Linux user and AFAIK it always supports the latest version of Evolution available as binary by a package, this at least s the policy, while the default packages should follow upstream, e.g. regarding to hard dependencies. https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/evolution/ Then there's the Arch build system, it provides an easy way to compile it on our own and to build a package. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Build_System [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ls /var/abs/extra/evolution* /var/abs/extra/evolution: evolution.install PKGBUILD /var/abs/extra/evolution-data-server: evolution-data-server.install fix-google-2fa-2.patch fix-google-2fa-4.patch fix-google-2fa-1.patch fix-google-2fa-3.patch PKGBUILD /var/abs/extra/evolution-ews: PKGBUILD It in addition provides a special user repository system called AUR. http://www.google.de/#fp=70cd6391644bec71q=arch+linux+aur+evolution Regards, Ralf ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 11:35 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: There are several websites that allow you to post bounties on project bugs. I have bounties on project bugs, including ones on Evolution. Some have been closed. Generally the developer's response is - I don't care. In the past I've offered as much as several hundred dollars on a bug, had it closed, and been told by the developer he didn't care about the bounty. As a salaried developer of an open source company, it's unclear whether I'm legally able to collect bounties, as it could easily be *perceived* (even if not intended) as a form of bribery, which would run afoul of our Code of Business Conduct and Ethics. Surprisingly, especially at a place like Red Hat, I've not been able to find an explicit statement on our policy toward bounties, so I've asked our legal department to clarify. If and when I receive an answer, I'll post a follow up so our position is clear. I would guess past and present employees of other open source companies have been bound by similar legal uncertainty or restrictions, which may explain why you didn't get any takers. Matthew Barnes ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi :) If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? You say that Evo is available from the downloads page. However, the only versions available from there need to be compiled in order to be used. If users are unable to compile anything then the downloads page has nothing that can be used by users. So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? Just wait until whichever distro i use happens to upgrade? You tell me to write to a 3rd party but then fail to give me an address of someone that will respond to my request. It makes no sense to have to write to a 3rd party in order to get your software. What is the downloads page for? It is obviously not for users to download Evolution for themselves to use so who is it for? Regards from Tom :) From: Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org To: evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 16:35 Subject: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] snip / Users are not developers, users will never compile anything. most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. I install a LINUX distribution, then I install Evolution from there. THAT IS HOW LINUX SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION WORKS, VIA THE ***DISTRIBUTION*** - HENCE THE NAME DISTRIBUTION! snip /___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? Users very often compile by their own, this is common practise for *nix systems. So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? Just wait until whichever distro i use happens to upgrade? If you need latest version of Evolution, then use a distro that does provide this. I already mentioned that Arch Linux does provide latest binaries. _But_ a default Arch Linux has got no default mail user agent, it even comes without a default desktop environment, since a default install even comes without X. You have the choice to use what ever *nix, e.g. Linux distro you'll use or not use. _If_ you can't talk to the team of your distro, than use another distro. _If_ no Linux distro's team is interested in your opinion, try another *nix, e.g. FreeBSD or completely don't use a *nix. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? There is diversity. Some people compile (or use distros that require this). Some use precompiled packages (or distros that provide this). So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? They use a distribution that ships the latest version of Evo. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi :) So when i want to use Evolution i need to reboot the machine into a different distro? I guess i might be able to use a virtual machine right? Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? Regards from Tom :) From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com To: evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 20:31 Subject: Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? Users very often compile by their own, this is common practise for *nix systems. So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? Just wait until whichever distro i use happens to upgrade? If you need latest version of Evolution, then use a distro that does provide this. I already mentioned that Arch Linux does provide latest binaries. _But_ a default Arch Linux has got no default mail user agent, it even comes without a default desktop environment, since a default install even comes without X. You have the choice to use what ever *nix, e.g. Linux distro you'll use or not use. _If_ you can't talk to the team of your distro, than use another distro. _If_ no Linux distro's team is interested in your opinion, try another *nix, e.g. FreeBSD or completely don't use a *nix. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? They are not; nobody said they were. You say that Evo is available from the downloads page. I did not say any such thing. And it would depend upon your definition of Evo and your definition of available. However, the only versions available from there need to be compiled in order to be used. Correct, because DISTRIBUTIONS distribute FLOSS software. That is CRYSTAL @Y@ )@(@*@* CLEAR. And understood by everybody running a FLOSS OS/environment. It is called a DISTRIBUTION, for pete sakes. If users are unable to compile anything then the downloads page has nothing that can be used by users. Yep. So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? Just wait until whichever distro i use happens to upgrade? Yes. And the overall distribution does not need to, you just subscribe to a repository for that distribution which does. Standard practice. I'm on openSUSE, it is just a couple of clicks and I'm subscribe to the GNOME latest repo. Done. You tell me to write to a 3rd party but then fail to give me an address of someone that will respond to my request. You do not know what distribution you are using? Since they DISTRIBUTED the software to you... It makes no sense to have to write to a 3rd party in order to get your software. Okay, then stop using FLOSS. Because that is how it work 99.44% of the time. Some projects may choose to package on their own, and then they very frequently distribute packages that do not work correctly. What is the downloads page for? Don't know. It is obviously not for users to download Evolution for themselves to use so who is it for? Developers possibly, although they will almost certainly subscribe to a code repository. So maybe it doesn't really have a purpose; but then nobody uses it. Move on. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awill...@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) So when i want to use Evolution i need to reboot the machine into a different distro? No. If you read what was written, this was only a recommendation _If_ you can't talk to the team of your distro. I guess the intention was more of a If you use a distribution which ships old packages, and you want recent packages, then maybe consider a different distribution. Or compile yourself. There's enough options. I guess i might be able to use a virtual machine right? Yes, distributions operating systems can be run in virtual machines. Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? Any distribution which provides precompiled Evolution packages to you. Which should be any relevant distribution nowadays. (But that's already been written a few times on this mailing list.) andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 15:50 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: You tell me to write to a 3rd party but then fail to give me an address of someone that will respond to my request. You do not know what distribution you are using? Since they DISTRIBUTED the software to you... JFTR $ cat /etc/issue should show what distro is used and again http://distrowatch.com/ does show a few distros that are available. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? You can do some work on your own. Perhaps Linux isn't what fits to your needs. Take a look at distrowatch and then check the policy and repositories of different distros. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) So when i want to use Evolution i need to reboot the machine into a different distro? I guess i might be able to use a virtual machine right? Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? Install openSUSE zypper ar -f obs://GNOME:STABLE:3.8/openSUSE_12.3 GS3 zypper dup --from GS38 Works great. I'm always as close to current as I want to be. And, no doubt, there are ways to do this on other distributions. I do not know about them [nor do I much care]. All I know about other distros is that Ubuntu people are constantly constantly griping about how that linux-for-humans distributions is borking them up [and at the same time saying it is awesome...]. I've nominated a motto for openSUSE of LINUX for people who need to get work done, but I that probably is two much of a snub. :) http://dominique.leuenberger.net/blog/2013/04/gnome-3-8-for-opensuse-12-3-go-get-it/ -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awill...@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.comwrote: On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? Users very often compile by their own, this is common practise for *nix systems. It would be quite nice if Evolution would intentionally limit itself to the support libraries available in the current versions of Fedora, Ubuntu and Suse. Last time I tried to compile development Evolution I ended up building all of Gnome. I may as well have been using Gentoo. Sure, I know the pain. I personally have to develop software using only particular old versions of Boost and never use any C++11 features. In fact I have to stay compatible with G++ 4.1. So I feel sympathy but it is still better for Evolution end users and outsiders who want to hack on the code. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? I'm a user. My choice of Operating System is Linux and my choice of distribution (or flavour) of Linux happens to be Gentoo. More often than not, when a package is installed or updated in Gentoo, its compiled from scratch... Often what is distributed by the Gentoo Distribution system is very similar to what one may find on a Download site (ie Source). Where this gets very useful is for example with BIND (the DNS) software. Running 'named -V' shows me how BIND was compiled (the options to configure. So now I can go to ISC, Download the source of the latest version of BIND, then run the configure script with the same configuration the current running version has. After a make install - I have a new Nameserver. So - I find Download pages very useful. I don't always have to wait for the Gentoo Distribution gods (the 3rd party mentioned?) to get the latest version ready for me! I guess the other thing I like about Gentoo is I get to learn a little more about what is beneath the bonnet to the point I can better look after myself. Remember, (1) download, (2) unpackage (tar -xvzf package.tgz) (around here - explore what you have just unpacked, read the README's and other files like INSTALL and look for 'configure'. (3) ./configure (with options), (4) make, (5) make install. You say that Evo is available from the downloads page. However, the only versions available from there need to be compiled in order to be used. If users are unable to compile anything then the downloads page has nothing that can be used by users. I really don't follow this logic. So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? Just wait until whichever distro i use happens to upgrade? You tell me to write to a 3rd party but then fail to give me an address of someone that will respond to my request. It makes no sense to have to write to a 3rd party in order to get your software. These Third Party folk - often unpaid volunteers - like helping. They are also human If you ask politely, they will often help. You'd need to find out who the relevant person (or group) is for you. This depends on your flavour or distribution of Linux and perhaps on what version you are currently running. Try using Google. Perhaps your Distribution has a knowledge website? What is the downloads page for? It is obviously not for users to download Evolution for themselves to use so who is it for? Regards from Tom :) __ From: Adam Tauno Williams awill...@whitemice.org To: evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 16:35 Subject: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] snip / Users are not developers, users will never compile anything. most people out there haven't got a clue and find it too scary as a prospect. Much easier to download and install a competitor such as Thunderbird or Claws and miss out on all the amazing things Evo can do that those others can't. I install a LINUX distribution, then I install Evolution from there. THAT IS HOW LINUX SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION WORKS, VIA THE ***DISTRIBUTION*** - HENCE THE NAME DISTRIBUTION! snip / ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list -- . . ___. .__ Posix Systems - (South) Africa /| /| / /__ m...@posix.co.za - Mark J Elkins, Cisco CCIE / |/ |ARK \_/ /__ LKINS Tel: +27 12 807 0590 Cell: +27 82 601 0496 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 16:13 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:54 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? Install openSUSE zypper ar -f obs://GNOME:STABLE:3.8/openSUSE_12.3 GS3 zypper dup --from GS38 Works great. I'm always as close to current as I want to be. OR, if you're not comfortable with the terminal: Click yast Click Manage Software Search evolution Click Evolution check box Click Finish Yast is considered by many, if not most, to be one of the best reasons to choose openSUSE over another distribution. All I know about other distros is that Ubuntu people are constantly constantly griping about how that linux-for-humans distributions is borking them up [and at the same time saying it is awesome...]. Hear, hear! I installed and tried Ububtu and found it unstable. Not awesome at all. Then again, it was free for the downloading. I tried it, didn't care for it, and so removed it. At no time did I join their forum to complain and demand that it be changed to suit my liking. I've nominated a motto for openSUSE of LINUX for people who need to get work done, but I that probably is two much of a snub. :) It is however, exactly why I use, and have used it now for quite a long time (since 8.1). And, I've never compiled anything. The one or two times I tried with some esoteric package, and failed, someone on the openSUSE forum jumped right in, compiled it for me and provided the binary within hours of asking. In all these years, I've never felt the need to complain to the people who (mostly without financial compensation) provide functional, secure, stable software for me to use at the cost of a simple download. It would never occur to me to threaten them with the removal of their software and the use of a competitor's product, as I'm sure most developers of FOSS view this with the same feeling of humor as I. I'll sure be pleased when this thread expires! Bart ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi :) Ok, got it. So each time Evolution produces a new release then we all just change distro (except those using a rolling release, if it's one that has upgraded). Regards from Tom :) From: Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net To: Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk Cc: evolution-list@gnome.org evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 20:49 Subject: Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? There is diversity. Some people compile (or use distros that require this). Some use precompiled packages (or distros that provide this). So how are users expected to get the latest versions of Evo? They use a distribution that ships the latest version of Evo. andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 22:33 +0200, Mark Elkins wrote: Remember, (1) download, (2) unpackage (tar -xvzf package.tgz) (around here - explore what you have just unpacked, read the README's and other files like INSTALL and look for 'configure'. (3) ./configure (with options), (4) make, (5) make install. This isn't a good hint for those who are on distros that use a package management. For Suse and Debian/Ubuntu at least a make install should be replaced by a checkinstall. For Debian there are different other ways to build a package than using checkinstall, e.g. the take a package and replace it's source by a newer version, edit changelog and rules and then run libtoolize --force --copy --automake, aclocal, autoreconf, debuild -b -us -uc way. However, not all software can be compiled by the configure-make-makeinstall-rule. From all the ways to compile software and to build binary packages I prefer Arch's PKGBUILDs. Third Party folk Real issues with third party packages are, that they easily can conflict with libs from official repositories, especially for those distros who do this disgusting split of stuff, that isn't split by upstream, e.g. Suse and Debian/Ubuntu do it in a very odd way, by split what later is in bin and lib, but that belongs to each other. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 22:29 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: So each time Evolution produces a new release then we all just change distro (except those using a rolling release, if it's one that has upgraded). I for example don't report each minor bug to a bug tracker. I'm using latest version of Evolution, but I also could live with an outdated version from e.g. Ubuntu and indeed, I share the pop/smpt mail folder by Arch and Debian/Ubuntu using different releases of Evolution. If you don't need latest features and you won't report each minor bug, then there's no need for version hunting. Distros have reasons to ship with outdated software. Ubuntu has got many official subgroups such as Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio, you likely will find a team that isn't conform with Steve Bill Shuttleworth or what ever his first names are. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
What is the downloads page for? It's for pointing people at the source code - remember, this is FOSS, one of the requirements is that the source code is freely and easily available. It is obviously not for users to download Evolution for themselves to use so who is it for? Some do use it, but it's certainly not something that *most* users would do. Indeed, to compile Evo, it's usually better to use something like JHBuild which would get the source from the Git repository. I consider myself to be a fairly competent Linux user of many years and perfectly capable of compiling packages. But I resist the temptation to compile packages that are available in repositories because it means that the packages are taken out of the standard update mechanism; I would have to monitor various sites for critical/security updates and then recompile the code everytime it's updated. Far better to let the distro maintainers do all the QC and compatibility checks. P. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Do you have a list of distros i can use Evolution on? Yes, all of them. You can use Evolution on any distro. You might also find that most distros even package it up for you for your convenience. Tell me, are you being deliberately obtuse in asking all these bizarre illogical questions? Or is there a reason for it? P. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 23:22 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote: What is the downloads page for? It's for pointing people at the source code - remember, this is FOSS, one of the requirements is that the source code is freely and easily available. The distro, or anybody who distribute FLOSS has to make the source available, not somebody who develops something ;). I can do what I want at home, as even a big project could do, without providing a source code, even if GPL'ed stuff is used, as long it isn't distributed. t's usually better to use something like JHBuild which would get the source from the Git repository. I use git to pull from a git source tree ;). But a tarball on a download site usually provides the current stable branch, while by git you quasi need to search for the stable branch. Were do you get the information from, that not most users compile from source? Is there a link to this information available? ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Were do you get the information from, that not most users compile from source? Is there a link to this information available? Sorry, I used my experience, I apologise that the statement isn't backed up by a research project. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi :) Why was it good when someone else compiled it for you? Was the compiled one easier to install? This thread keeps going round in circles. 2 frequent assertions are that * All users find it easy to compile because it's so easy * No users can compile because it's tricky We have seen people go on about this or that libraries and potential problems. Several different sets of instructions with apparent disagreement about which might or might not work, how to mitigate or prepare against problems. Other projects just give 2 or 3 pre-compiled downloads on their sites. I take it that this project doesn't have the skill-set to provide such a thing? Is that why people are getting so defensive about Evolution's inability to provide what every other project seems to be able to provide? If you folks just don't have the skills needed then how about we just tackle that first and get someone else to do it for you? Regards from Tom :) From: Bart montana_evolution_u...@hardinmt.us To: evolution-list@gnome.org Sent: Monday, 26 August 2013, 22:10 Subject: Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] snip / someone on the openSUSE forum jumped right in, compiled it for me and provided the binary within hours of asking. snip /___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 23:48 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote: Were do you get the information from, that not most users compile from source? Is there a link to this information available? Sorry, I used my experience, I apologise that the statement isn't backed up by a research project. I guess most Linux is used by Android users, satellite tv receiver users etc., so yes, most people using Linux even aren't aware that they're using Linux and they unlikely compile anything, but regarding to Linux distributions I'm uncertain. Less people download Gentoo, Arch etc., than people download Ubuntu, Suse etc., but people who download Ubuntu often don't use Linux, they just test it and even those who use Ubuntu, Suse etc., tend to download a new release again and again, unlikely that e.g. an Arch user will do this. People who have special needs regarding to Linux userspace very often need to compile by their own, such as rt patched kernels for pro-audio usage. Compiling is the old school *nix way, has this really changed? It hasn't for most mailing lists I join. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On 26 August 2013 23:55, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Is that why people are getting so defensive about Evolution's inability to provide what every other project seems to be able to provide? The current software set available in most Linux distros runs to several thousand packages. A typical installation runs to several hundred of these. For example my laptop currently has 1647 installed packages, of which *not a single one* was downloaded from a package-specific download site, i.e. the entire set came from distro repositories. The number of widely-used software projects which support Linux and have individual multi-distro binary download sites independent of the official repositories are at most in the 10's, being mainly things like Libreoffice, Thunderbird, Vlc etc. which are multi-platform (i.e. not Linux-specific). IOW your assertion regarding every other project is flat wrong. If you folks just don't have the skills needed then how about we just tackle that first and get someone else to do it for you? Because we're not remotely interested, as has been explained over and over again. That doesn't stop you from doing it if you want to. Good luck with that. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On 27 August 2013 00:08, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@rocketmail.com wrote: On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 23:48 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote: Were do you get the information from, that not most users compile from source? Is there a link to this information available? Sorry, I used my experience, I apologise that the statement isn't backed up by a research project. I guess most Linux is used by Android users, satellite tv receiver users etc., so yes, most people using Linux even aren't aware that they're using Linux and they unlikely compile anything, but regarding to Linux distributions I'm uncertain. Less people download Gentoo, Arch etc., than people download Ubuntu, Suse etc., but people who download Ubuntu often don't use Linux, they just test it and even those who use Ubuntu, Suse etc., tend to download a new release again and again, unlikely that e.g. an Arch user will do this. People who have special needs regarding to Linux userspace very often need to compile by their own, such as rt patched kernels for pro-audio usage. Compiling is the old school *nix way, has this really changed? It hasn't for most mailing lists I join. That's by its nature a self-selecting list. I would side with Pete on this, i.e. I don't think self-compiling is at all common. However this is getting even more OT than the original topic of this thread. I suggest further discussion of this take place off-list. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 00:25 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On 26 August 2013 23:55, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Is that why people are getting so defensive about Evolution's inability to provide what every other project seems to be able to provide? The current software set available in most Linux distros runs to several thousand packages. A typical installation runs to several hundred of these. For example my laptop currently has 1647 installed packages, of which *not a single one* was downloaded from a package-specific download site, i.e. the entire set came from distro repositories. The number of widely-used software projects which support Linux and have individual multi-distro binary download sites independent of the official repositories are at most in the 10's, being mainly things like Libreoffice, Thunderbird, Vlc etc. which are multi-platform (i.e. not Linux-specific). Sorry, I'm aware that I shouldn't send a duplicated message, if I randomly didn't select the correct account that is used to subscribed to this list, so just an acception, I don't do it for other mails I sent today. Forwarded Message From: Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net To: evolution-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page] Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2013 01:23:44 +0200 On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 23:55 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Is that why people are getting so defensive about Evolution's inability to provide what every other project seems to be able to provide? Most projects don't provide downloads for special distribution. Count the projects on http://sourceforge.net/ and https://github.com/ and ... and compare it with the few who provide DEB and RPM packages on a homepage. Not seldom provided packages don't work. For many, likely for most distros DEB and RPM packages are completely useless. Often even a provided package for software at least needs to compile kernel modules, sure it could be automated by dkms, maintainers could provide packages that fit to each kernel update by a distro. But about what are we talking here? About Linux userspace, configurable to the users needs or about a Linux userspace, that fakes to be a replacement for Microsoft and Apple? I won the impression that most of those who continue to discuss with you have another opinion than you've got. Most others likely disagree with you too. However, I try to stop continuing this discussion. I guess now everybody said everything repeated several times. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 01:29 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 00:25 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: On 26 August 2013 23:55, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: I won the impression that most of those who continue to discuss with you have another opinion than you've got. Most others likely disagree with you too. However, I try to stop continuing this discussion. I guess now everybody said everything repeated several times. My last words regarding to this thread(s), I was talking to Tom, not to Patrick. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 22:33 +0200, Mark Elkins wrote: Hi Tom, On Mon, 2013-08-26 at 20:15 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) If users will never compile anything then why are we expected to do so? I'm a user. My choice of Operating System is Linux and my choice of distribution (or flavour) of Linux happens to be Gentoo. More often than not, when a package is installed or updated in Gentoo, its compiled from scratch... Often what is distributed by the Gentoo Distribution system is very similar to what one may find on a Download site (ie Source). Where this gets very useful is for example with BIND (the DNS) software. Running 'named -V' shows me how BIND was compiled (the options to configure. So now I can go to ISC, Download the source of the latest version of BIND, then run the configure script with the same configuration the current running version has. After a make install - I have a new Nameserver. So - I find Download pages very useful. I don't always have to wait for the Gentoo Distribution gods (the 3rd party mentioned?) to get the latest version ready for me! I guess the other thing I like about Gentoo is I get to learn a little more about what is beneath the bonnet to the point I can better look after myself. Remember, (1) download, (2) unpackage (tar -xvzf package.tgz) (around here - explore what you have just unpacked, read the README's and other files like INSTALL and look for 'configure'. (3) ./configure (with options), (4) make, (5) make install. I case you find Gentoo and its way of compiling packages too much of a hassle, take a look at Sabayon Linux. It's based on Gentoo, compatible with Gentoo solutions and its rolling release, in fact you about 1-2GB of updates every week. It does have a package manager (entropy), which is the recommended way of installing stuff. And that stuff is pretty much cutting edge. Maybe Evolution is not the latest version (I have 3.8.4), but I find it current enough for my purposes, which is receiving/writing email rather than getting into a huff about bugs in the latest (not so stable) release (And then complaining on this mailinglist). That is not up-to-date enough for you? Go ahead and compile the Gentoo way (yes you can do that on Sabayon if you wish). http://www.sabayon.org/ https://packages.sabayon.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabayon_Linux If you rather into Debian use apt-pinning and take the Evo packages from the experimental branch, that should be pretty cutting edge! :-p https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html Pascal [snip] ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Idealism face plants against asphalt [Was: downloads page]
On Tue, 2013-08-27 at 01:45 +0200, Pascal Hasko Bernhard wrote: If you rather into Debian use apt-pinning and take the Evo packages from the experimental branch, that should be pretty cutting edge! Sorry, I dislike to chime in again, but don't recommend something like this. Experimental provides 3.8.4 and it likely will break a Debian production environment, pinning unlikely does voodoo and Debian usually comes with a dependency hell, if people try to use current software versions. [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ pacman -Q evolution evolution 3.8.5-1 Current Stable Release Package Version Evolution 3.8.5 - https://projects.gnome.org/evolution/download.shtml Use Arch Linux or any other distro that provide current stable binary packages. If you e.g. use Suse and a third party repository for such a distro, ensure if you e.g. should have payed for support, if they still will support. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
