Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[rbre gmx]

Thank you very much for your help.

Back from my vacation, I have created a new environment.

I have:
KDE Linux Debian  8 (jessie) 64 Bit 8 GB RAM with CPU 4 Core / 2.66 GHz
Intel / ext4 and Debian Evolution 3.12.9

The Evolution 3.12.9 on the partition sda3 is defective
The Evolution 3.12.9 on the partition sda5 is new installed and empty
Now I can safely implement any tips from you.

Regards at all
Ralph


 Weitergeleitete Nachricht Von: Rudolf Künzli
<rudolf.kun...@gmail.com>
An: Dario Lesca <d.le...@solinos.it>, evolution-list@gnome.org
Betreff: Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data
Datum: Wed, 09 Sep 2015 16:32:19 +0200

I recently had to install my stuff to a new system.
I am a lazy guy, I just copied my whole /home folder from my backup
disk over the new virgin /home folder and did allow all data to be
merged.
Worked fine for me...
Fedora 22, evolution 3.16.5, firefox and so on...

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Mon, 2015-09-14 at 09:51 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > Hoping not to go too far OT, but what's the advantage over rsync in
> > this
> > context ?
> > 
> 
> Because it does versioning.
> 
> See http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/ (which is 
> what rsnapshot is based on)

That site seems to be down (or at least very slow), so you might want
to look at http://rsnapshot.org/ for details. Briefly, rsnapshot allows
you to set up an incremental snapshotting backup system. As it's based
on rsync it can do everything rsync does, including minimizing storage
requirements by using hard links on the backup device (except for
directories of course, unlike Apple's Time Machine). Thus you can keep
a complete snapshot of your backup set on a daily, weekly, monthly etc.
basis, with automatic promotion between versions, and each snapshot
appears to contain the complete set even though only changed files are
physically stored. Restoring from a backup is done by simply copying
the files you want from the backup device.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Emilio Recio]

RSnapShot allows you to do incremental backups (using hardlinks) vs
Rsync which you would have to script to do what rsnapshot does.
Honestly, if you don't care for point-in-time backups, then just use
rsync. I use them both on a case-by-case basis.

On 09/13/15 11:19, Tom wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 08.09.2015, 16:55 +0100 schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
>> On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:10 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
>>> It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule
>>> backups at a
>>> certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite backup.  If I
>>> could have
>>> evolution do this automatically, I would never lose more than a day's
>>> e-mail.
>>
>> As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
>> intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your Evo
>> installation to another machine. For one thing, it requires Evo to be
>> running (not much use if you want to schedule it at fixed times). For
>> another, it doesn't do incremental backups but takes a complete
>> snapshot every time. This is almost never what you want in a production
>> context. Use a real backup system, of which there are many in Linux (I
>> use rsnapshot to a local (...)
>
> Hoping not to go too far OT, but what's the advantage over rsync in this
> context ?
>
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Pete Biggs]

> Hoping not to go too far OT, but what's the advantage over rsync in this
> context ?
> 

Because it does versioning.

See http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/ (which is what
rsnapshot is based on)

P.
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Tom]

Am Dienstag, den 08.09.2015, 16:55 +0100 schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
> On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:10 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
> > It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule
> > backups at a
> > certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite backup.  If I
> > could have
> > evolution do this automatically, I would never lose more than a day's 
> > e-mail.
> 
> As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
> intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your Evo
> installation to another machine. For one thing, it requires Evo to be
> running (not much use if you want to schedule it at fixed times). For
> another, it doesn't do incremental backups but takes a complete
> snapshot every time. This is almost never what you want in a production
> context. Use a real backup system, of which there are many in Linux (I
> use rsnapshot to a local (...)

Hoping not to go too far OT, but what's the advantage over rsync in this
context ?

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mer, 09/09/2015 alle 23.58 +0200, Ángel González ha scritto:
> Evolution uses different folders for different types of content,
> following the XDG Base Specification, which is actually a good thing.

Yes, i agree, this is a good thing.

> > From this info:
> > https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en
> > I understand want to copy this folder:
> > 

Then the folder to restore from backup are this two:

~/.local/share/evolution
~/.config/evolution

> That's true, although it's a problem of dconf, not something specific
> to evolution.
> 
> You can export only evolution-related data with: 
> 
> dconf  dump /org/gnome/evolution/
> dconf  dump /org/gnome/evolution-data-server/

Good! this is a useful info, thanks!
From now, before a backup I dump the evo's dconf setting into a text
file for restore it

Question: It's possible extract with dconf (or gsettings) the
evolution's data directly from the backup folders, for example from
/mnt/bk/home/user/.config/dconf/ if I do not have dump it before? How
to?

> Zan wrote:
> > One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla and
> > Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.
> 
> 
> Actually, Firefox no longer does this. It now uses: 
> 
> ~/.mozilla/firefox//
> ~/.cache/mozilla/firefox//
> 
> 
> Which is a perfect example of why the XDG spec split the folders in
> this way, instead of saying "put everything about the program into
> ~/.apps/".
> 
> It makes no sense to include in a firefox backup hundreds of MB that
> are just downloaded web pages and won't be of any use if restored
> later. Excluding ~/.cache you can easily exclude from a backup the
> unneeded data from all (conformant) programs.

Ok, I agree, I newer restore ~/.cache/mozilla/ but only
 ~/.mozilla/firefox/

Many thanks

-- 
Dario Lesca
(inviato dal mio Linux Fedora 22 con Gnome 3.16)

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Roy Reese]

On Wednesday, 09/09/2015 Andrea Vai wrote:
> I was also wondering about a better name... what about "Export
> Evolution data" and "Import Evolution data"? Despite they would be
> similar to the below "Import..." menu item, I think that they would
> be clearly understood as different things (evo vs external data)

There is probably not a perfect solution to this, but the back and forth 
reminds me that in the Spanish translation Evo uses "respaldar" which has the 
sense of providing support (to back someone/something) or in some cases to 
guarantee. Using "respaldar" for "to back up" may be an accepted sense in some 
Latin American dialects, but here in Spain you back up by making a backup copy 
("hacer una copia de seguridad"). So, in a curious way the Evo "backup" here is 
already distinct from the "backup" we generally think of in English.
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Milan Crha]

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 11:01 -0400, Dennis Reichel wrote:
> Thanks John,
> 
> That's helpful information.  My understanding of IMAP is that either
> the message header or header with message body may be downloaded. 
>  For
> a backup to be most useful, the message body should also be included.
>   
> 
> Cron or scheduled within Evolution, automatic data backups would be a
> great feature.
> 
> Also, I'd appreciate a notification when message bodies are not
> available to be backed up and a configuration option to attempt
> downloading missing bodies for backup.

Hi,
just a little clarification about backing up any remote data (including
IMAP, NNTP, EWS, CalDAV, WebDAV, On The Web, ... basically anything
what stores its data into ~/.cache), the built in backup doesn't
store/restore these caches, because that's only a local copy of the
server data, which is about to change the next time the mail folders,
calendars,... are updated. What the backup stores is the description of
the account, thus the next start after restore the evolution can
connect to the server and get fresh data from it. Of course, it has a
disadvantage of loading folder summaries from scratch, which can take
its time when the folders are large. It's still less data than backing
up copy of the server content.
Bye,
Milan
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Pete Biggs]

> Not all of us are on servers.  Also, my laptop (where mail evo with
> my business-related e-mail) is on 24/7 except when going through
> airport security, etc.  The same for my two desktops.  I cannot
> afford to loose what I have on the evo on my laptop. 

If you are doing periodic backups of your home directory on your
laptop, then that is sufficient to backup your Evolution data.

If your email is important to you, which it obviously is, then you
really need to find some way of working with it that doesn't mean that
your definitive copy is only on your laptop.  I'm not trying to tell
you how you should do things, but it seems to me to be inherently more
risky to rely on a laptop that can be lost, dropped, stolen, etc. never
mind the failure aspect.

>  Yes, one of my business e-mail accounts is IMPAX, but the ISP's
> server does not store sent e-mail.

So tell Evo to store your sent mail in some random IMAP folder on the
ISP - call it something like "From Me" rather than "Sent" or "Sent
Mail" or whatever.

>   Incremental backups are a thing of the past with large capacity 2.5
> inch SSDs.

Really??  My backups are stored on a 5Pb system - I still do
incremental weekly backups as there is no way I want my system spending
hours upon hours backing up the same 4Tb every time.

>   The partition where I keep by evo backups (about 6 GB each still
> has more than 60 GB free space).  They are also backed up on
> SpiderOak.  I do not see the objection to doing what works.
> 

The problem is that I (we?) are not entirely sure that it will always
work or work reliably because you are using a feature for a purpose it
wasn't designed for - and when it doesn't work, it will be Evolution's
fault won't it?

P.


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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Andrea Vai]

Il giorno mer, 09/09/2015 alle 00.13 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan ha scritto:
> On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:17 -0600, Zan Lynx wrote:
> > > As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
> > > intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your
> > Evo
> > > installation to another machine.
> > 
> > If the Evolution developers are reading this I'd like to point out
> > (again) that expecting people to remember and use an obscure,
> > application-specific backup feature is unrealistic.
> 
> Imagine for a moment that the commands weren't called "backup" and
> "restore", but (say) "pack" and "unpack". See what I mean? They have
> nothing to do with backups as that term is normally understood. In 
> that
> light, the only obscure thing about them is their name, which as 
> I've
> said I think should be changed.

I was also wondering about a better name... what about "Export 
Evolution data" and "Import Evolution data"? Despite they would be 
similar to the below "Import..." menu item, I think that they would 
be  clearly understood as different things (evo vs external data)

Bye,
Andrea

> 
> poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2015-09-09 at 10:25 +0200, Roy Reese wrote:
> On Wednesday, 09/09/2015 Andrea Vai wrote:
> > I was also wondering about a better name... what about "Export
> > Evolution data" and "Import Evolution data"? Despite they would be
> > similar to the below "Import..." menu item, I think that they would
> > be clearly understood as different things (evo vs external data)
> 
> There is probably not a perfect solution to this, but the back and
> forth reminds me that in the Spanish translation Evo uses "respaldar"
> which has the sense of providing support (to back someone/something)
> or in some cases to guarantee. Using "respaldar" for "to back up" may
> be an accepted sense in some Latin American dialects, but here in
> Spain you back up by making a backup copy ("hacer una copia de
> seguridad"). So, in a curious way the Evo "backup" here is already
> distinct from the "backup" we generally think of in English.

Interesting. AFAIK "respaldar" is universally used in Latin America. I
didn't know Spain was different (but then it often is :-)

poc

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Milan Crha]

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 11:01 -0400, Dennis Reichel wrote:
> Cron or scheduled within Evolution, automatic data backups would be a
> great feature.

Oops, I missed this in the previous email.

The backup/restore built in the Evolution is very simple and it is done
by a separate binary, which takes some arguments. The binary is
evolution-backup, located in
   /usr/libexec/evolution/
in my Fedora. Evolution calls it as:
   /usr/libexec/evolution/evolution-backup --gui --backup $FILENAME

It closes the evolution before the backup is run, thus be careful. Also
use --help to get more information about the possible arguments.

In any case, as was said in this thread, the backup/restore is meant to
be used rather for movements of the data between computers, or to have
a backup before update, it's not meant to be used for regular backups.
There are better applications for it.
Bye,
Milan
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mar, 08/09/2015 alle 18.21 +0100, Pete Biggs ha scritto:
> > 
> > Evolution and Gnome itself are very unhelpful with this by
> spreading
> > necessary information into at least three different directories:
> > .local,
> > .config and gsettings / dconf / gconf / whatever-conf.
> > 
> > One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla and
> > Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.
> 
> Evolution conforms to Gnome standards, because it's a Gnome
> application.  Firefox/Thunderbird aren't Gnome applications - if they
> were they should store their data according to Gnome guidelines.

Ok, then?

If I want restore for example only Evo, TB, FF, .ssh from my home's
backup of my old PC (old.dom.tld) dead, on my new PC, fresh installed
with some Linux and Evo, TB, FF version, called "new.dom.tld"?

For TB, FF and .ssh is simple: I copy from home's backup the folders
~/.thunderbird, ~/.mozilla, and ~/.ssh to new PC and all work fine.

For Evo, what folder I must copy?

>From this info:
https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en
I understand want to copy this folder:

~/.local/share/evolution
~/.config/evolution
~/.cache/evolution
~/.config/dconf (*)
But into ~/.config/dconf are stored all DCONF setting of all other application, 
an in this case I want to copy only Evo settings, not the rest.
Also, if I copy (rsync) the tree or more Evo's folders from backup of old PC to 
new PC, I understand there is some selinux issue to resolve...
 
Some can suggest how to do a full restore of Evo settings and data from a 
backup to a new PC?

Many thanks.

-- 
Dario Lesca
(inviato dal mio Linux Fedora 22 con Gnome 3.16)
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dennis Reichel]

> just a little clarification about backing up any remote data
> (including
> IMAP, NNTP, EWS, CalDAV, WebDAV, On The Web, ... basically anything
> what stores its data into ~/.cache), the built in backup doesn't
> store/restore these caches, because that's only a local copy of the
> server data, which is about to change the next time the mail folders,
> calendars,... are updated. What the backup stores is the description
> of
> the account, thus the next start after restore the evolution can
> connect to the server and get fresh data from it. Of course, it has a
> disadvantage of loading folder summaries from scratch, which can take
> its time when the folders are large. It's still less data than
> backing
> up copy of the server content.
>   Bye,
>   Milan

Thanks Milan, this is important to know.

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Rudolf Künzli]

I recently had to install my stuff to a new system.
I am a lazy guy, I just copied my whole /home folder from my backup
disk over the new virgin /home folder and did allow all data to be
merged.
Worked fine for me...
Fedora 22, evolution 3.16.5, firefox and so on...
-- 
Rudolf Künzli 
On Wed, 2015-09-09 at 16:18 +0200, Dario Lesca wrote:
> Il giorno mar, 08/09/2015 alle 18.21 +0100, Pete Biggs ha scritto:
> > > 
> > > Evolution and Gnome itself are very unhelpful with this by
> > spreading
> > > necessary information into at least three different directories:
> > > .local,
> > > .config and gsettings / dconf / gconf / whatever-conf.
> > > 
> > > One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla
> > > and
> > > Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.
> > 
> > Evolution conforms to Gnome standards, because it's a Gnome
> > application.  Firefox/Thunderbird aren't Gnome applications - if
> > they
> > were they should store their data according to Gnome guidelines.
> 
> Ok, then?
> 
> If I want restore for example only Evo, TB, FF, .ssh from my home's
> backup of my old PC (old.dom.tld) dead, on my new PC, fresh installed
> with some Linux and Evo, TB, FF version, called "new.dom.tld"?
> 
> For TB, FF and .ssh is simple: I copy from home's backup the folders
> ~/.thunderbird, ~/.mozilla, and ~/.ssh to new PC and all work fine.
> 
> For Evo, what folder I must copy?
> 
> From this info:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en
> I understand want to copy this folder:
> 
> ~/.local/share/evolution
> ~/.config/evolution
> ~/.cache/evolution
> ~/.config/dconf (*)
> But into ~/.config/dconf are stored all DCONF setting of all other
> application, an in this case I want to copy only Evo settings, not
> the rest.
> Also, if I copy (rsync) the tree or more Evo's folders from backup of
> old PC to new PC, I understand there is some selinux issue to
> resolve...
>  
> Some can suggest how to do a full restore of Evo settings and data
> from a backup to a new PC?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Pete Biggs]

> > Evolution conforms to Gnome standards, because it's a Gnome
> > application.  Firefox/Thunderbird aren't Gnome applications - if they
> > were they should store their data according to Gnome guidelines.
> 
> Ok, then?

Look, I'm not saying one way or the other is correct.  They are
different.  Evo conforms to certain standards as is necessary for it to
be a well behaved Gnome application. Plenty of other applications do
the same thing, just look in ~/.config - if anything TB & FF are the
exceptions.  (SSH is not a desktop application, so is not comparable.)


> 
> From this info:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en
> I understand want to copy this folder:
> 
> ~/.local/share/evolution
> ~/.config/evolution
> ~/.cache/evolution

No, don't copy .cache - it's a cache and contains throwaway data.

> ~/.config/dconf (*)
> But into ~/.config/dconf are stored all DCONF setting of all other
> application, an in this case I want to copy only Evo settings, not
> the rest.

You don't want to copy dconf data using file copies unless you really
know what you are doing.

>  
> Some can suggest how to do a full restore of Evo settings and data
> from a backup to a new PC?
> 

Create a new temporary Linux account. Restore your home directory to
that, run Evolution and create a backup and save the file somewhere. De
lete the temporary account.  Restore the backup to your own account
within Evolution.

P.


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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mer, 09/09/2015 alle 16.47 +0200, Rudolf Künzli ha scritto:
> Sure, Dario. I just wonder why you're running TB and Evolution on the
> same system.

I use Evo for my primary email account POP3, and TB for extra various
IMAP/POP3 accounts, point to email servers of my clients for test only.

Also, my various clients use thunderbird, and so, I can suggest them
how to setting some functionality or account.

Also, Evo support more than one spell checker simultaneous (IT and EN
and Foo and ...) and TB no, it use only one spell checker at time.

   
-- 
Dario Lesca
(inviato dal mio Linux Fedora 22 con Gnome 3.16)

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dario Lesca]

Il giorno mer, 09/09/2015 alle 16.32 +0200, Rudolf Künzli ha scritto:
> I recently had to install my stuff to a new system.
> I am a lazy guy, I just copied my whole /home folder from my backup
> disk over the new virgin /home folder and did allow all data to be
> merged.
> Worked fine for me...
> Fedora 22, evolution 3.16.5, firefox and so on...

Thanks Rudolf, I know this method, but I want copy only data and
settings of Evo, FF, TB, and some other few application to my new PC.

I do not want transfer old and obsolete settings and data, I want to
start with a clean new home...

Thanks.

-- 
Dario Lesca
(inviato dal mio Linux Fedora 22 con Gnome 3.16)

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Rudolf Künzli]

Sure, Dario. I just wonder why you're running TB and Evolution on the
same system.
Just curious...
Ciao
-- 
Rudolf Künzli 
On Wed, 2015-09-09 at 16:41 +0200, Dario Lesca wrote:
> Il giorno mer, 09/09/2015 alle 16.32 +0200, Rudolf Künzli ha scritto:
> > I recently had to install my stuff to a new system.
> > I am a lazy guy, I just copied my whole /home folder from my backup
> > disk over the new virgin /home folder and did allow all data to be
> > merged.
> > Worked fine for me...
> > Fedora 22, evolution 3.16.5, firefox and so on...
> 
> Thanks Rudolf, I know this method, but I want copy only data and
> settings of Evo, FF, TB, and some other few application to my new PC.
> 
> I do not want transfer old and obsolete settings and data, I want to
> start with a clean new home...
> 
> Thanks.
> 
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Ángel González]

Evolution uses different folders for different types of content,
following the XDG Base Specification, which is actually a good thing.

> From this info:
> https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/data-storage.html.en
> I understand want to copy this folder:
> 
> ~/.local/share/evolution
Here is the "general" data -including emails-.


> ~/.config/evolution

Whereas the files here are configuration settings that could be
recreated by the user if needed.


> ~/.cache/evolution

And this is data which can be safely discardewd.


> ~/.config/dconf (*)
> But into ~/.config/dconf are stored all DCONF setting of all other
> application, an in this case I want to copy only Evo settings, not
> the rest.

That's true, although it's a problem of dconf, not something specific
to evolution.

You can export only evolution-related data with: 

dconf  dump /org/gnome/evolution/
dconf  dump /org/gnome/evolution-data-server/


Zan wrote:
> One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla and
> Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.


Actually, Firefox no longer does this. It now uses: 

~/.mozilla/firefox//
~/.cache/mozilla/firefox//


Which is a perfect example of why the XDG spec split the folders in
this way, instead of saying "put everything about the program into
~/.apps/".

It makes no sense to include in a firefox backup hundreds of MB that
are just downloaded web pages and won't be of any use if restored
later. Excluding ~/.cache you can easily exclude from a backup the
unneeded data from all (conformant) programs.






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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[John Lauterbach]

I checked this recently using evolution 3.16.5 running under Ubutnu 15.10 beta. 
 Used evolution backup routine (Backup EvolutionData).  Saved backup file to
spare partition on my SSD.  Then copied the backup file to a 3 TB Toshiba USB
drive.  Moved drive over to another PC running same versions of evolution and
OS.  Copied contents of USB drive to Desktop.  Restored evolution form the
backup file and checked mail, contacts, etc.(I have evolution set not to check
mail on startup).  Everything okay.

It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule backups at a
certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite backup.  If I could have
evolution do this automatically, I would never lose more than a day's e-mail.

John

-Original Message-
From: Dennis Reichel <den...@reichel.net>
Reply-to: den...@reichel.net
To: Evolution Mailing List <evolution-list@gnome.org>
Subject: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:19:47 -0400

What are the best practices for backing up Evolution data? 

Though these are (mostly) general sorts of questions, I'm using
Evolution 3.16.5 on Fedora 22.

What specifically is backed up when you back up you "Backup Evolution
Data.."?

What can be done to ensure the entire email base is both downloaded
from the imap servers
and included in the backup archives?

Are contacts backed up? (including Google Contacts and CardDav
contacts)

How does this handle accounts that are created by "Gnome's Online
Account service"?

What happens if this backup is restored on a non-Gnome Linux machine?

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 13:28 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
> Not all of us are on servers.

Not clear whether you're referring to the mail system or the backup
system, If it's the former, then of course we are all on servers but
not all of them are IMAP, however my point was specifically in relation
to a question about backing up IMAP accounts. If you mean that not
everyone has a backup server, that's true but irrelevant. If I was
backing up to a local disk my backup technique would be exactly the
same.

>   Also, my laptop (where mail evo with my business
> -related e-mail) is on 24/7 except when going through airport
> security, etc. 
>  The same for my two desktops.  I cannot afford to loose what I have
> on the evo
> on my laptop. Yes, one of my business e-mail accounts is IMPAX, but
> the ISP's
> server does not store sent e-mail.  Incremental backups are a thing
> of the past
> with large capacity 2.5 inch SSDs.

The idea that "disks are so large now that we can stop worrying about
running out of space" is one I've been hearing for the past 40 years.
Oddly enough, the size of email messages seems to grow as fast as the
space available for their storage, but even if that weren't true, you
mean you copy 6GB of (mostly redundant) data over your network
connection every time you do a backup? I don't see the point.

>   The partition where I keep by evo backups
> (about 6 GB each still has more than 60 GB free space).  They are 
> also backed up on SpiderOak.  I do not see the objection to doing
> what works.

So you can store up to 10 backups. Using an incremental scheme would
get you a lot more, and you'd use much less bandwidth in doing it. You
must do whatever works for you, but the discussion is about what if
anything Evo itself should support. My view is that it would be a waste
of scarce developer time to code some application-specific backup
scheme when it's not needed.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:17 -0600, Zan Lynx wrote:
> > As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
> > intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your
> Evo
> > installation to another machine.
> 
> If the Evolution developers are reading this I'd like to point out
> (again) that expecting people to remember and use an obscure,
> application-specific backup feature is unrealistic.

Imagine for a moment that the commands weren't called "backup" and
"restore", but (say) "pack" and "unpack". See what I mean? They have
nothing to do with backups as that term is normally understood. In that
light, the only obscure thing about them is their name, which as I've
said I think should be changed.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dennis Reichel]

Thanks John,

That's helpful information.  My understanding of IMAP is that either
the message header or header with message body may be downloaded.  For
a backup to be most useful, the message body should also be included.  

Cron or scheduled within Evolution, automatic data backups would be a
great feature.

Also, I'd appreciate a notification when message bodies are not
available to be backed up and a configuration option to attempt
downloading missing bodies for backup.

Dennis Reichel 

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:10 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
> I checked this recently using evolution 3.16.5 running under Ubutnu
> 15.10 beta.  Used evolution backup routine (Backup EvolutionData). 
>  Saved backup file to spare partition on my SSD.  Then copied the
> backup file to a 3 TB Toshiba USB drive.  Moved drive over to another
> PC running same versions of evolution and OS.  Copied contents of USB
> drive to Desktop.  Restored evolution form the backup file and
> checked mail, contacts, etc.(I have evolution set not to check mail
> on startup).  Everything okay.
> 
> It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule
> backups at a certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite
> backup.  If I could have evolution do this automatically, I would
> never lose more than a day's e-mail.
> 
> John
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis Reichel <den...@reichel.net>
> Reply-to: den...@reichel.net
> To: Evolution Mailing List <evolution-list@gnome.org>
> Subject: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data
> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2015 12:19:47 -0400
> 
> What are the best practices for backing up Evolution data? 
> 
> Though these are (mostly) general sorts of questions, I'm using
> Evolution 3.16.5 on Fedora 22.
> 
> What specifically is backed up when you back up you "Backup Evolution
> Data.."?
> 
> What can be done to ensure the entire email base is both downloaded
> from the imap servers
> and included in the backup archives?
> 
> Are contacts backed up? (including Google Contacts and CardDav
> contacts)
> 
> How does this handle accounts that are created by "Gnome's Online
> Account service"?
> 
> What happens if this backup is restored on a non-Gnome Linux machine?
> 
> Many Thanks
> ___
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> evolution-list@gnome.org
> To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ...
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:10 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
> It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule
> backups at a
> certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite backup.  If I
> could have
> evolution do this automatically, I would never lose more than a day's 
> e-mail.

As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your Evo
installation to another machine. For one thing, it requires Evo to be
running (not much use if you want to schedule it at fixed times). For
another, it doesn't do incremental backups but takes a complete
snapshot every time. This is almost never what you want in a production
context. Use a real backup system, of which there are many in Linux (I
use rsnapshot to a local NAS, but YMMV). You are backing up your systemanyway 
aren't you?

I think the command should have a different name to avoid this being
brought up time and again, though nothing occurs to me offhand.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[John Lauterbach]

Hello Patrick:
Not all of us are on servers.  Also, my laptop (where mail evo with my business
-related e-mail) is on 24/7 except when going through airport security, etc. 
 The same for my two desktops.  I cannot afford to loose what I have on the evo
on my laptop.  Yes, one of my business e-mail accounts is IMPAX, but the ISP's
server does not store sent e-mail.  Incremental backups are a thing of the past
with large capacity 2.5 inch SSDs.  The partition where I keep by evo backups
(about 6 GB each still has more than 60 GB free space).  They are also backed up
on SpiderOak.  I do not see the objection to doing what works.
John
-Original Message-
From: Patrick O'Callaghan <p...@usb.ve>
To: evolution-list@gnome.org
Subject: Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 16:55:08 +0100
On Tue, 2015-09-08 at 10:10 -0400, John Lauterbach wrote:
> It would be a nice addition to evolution to be able to schedule
> backups at a
> certain time each day.  I use SpiderOak for offsite backup.  If I
> could have
> evolution do this automatically, I would never lose more than a day's 
> e-mail.
As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your Evo
installation to another machine. For one thing, it requires Evo to be
running (not much use if you want to schedule it at fixed times). For
another, it doesn't do incremental backups but takes a complete
snapshot every time. This is almost never what you want in a production
context. Use a real backup system, of which there are many in Linux (I
use rsnapshot to a local NAS, but YMMV). You are backing up your systemanyway
aren't you?
I think the command should have a different name to avoid this being
brought up time and again, though nothing occurs to me offhand.
poc
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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> If the Evolution developers are reading this I'd like to point out
> (again) that expecting people to remember and use an obscure,
> application-specific backup feature is unrealistic.

I hardly think that a menu item labelled "Backup Evolution Data ..."
under "File" is obscure, nor is it necessary to remember anything. It's
not like you have to delve deep down into menus or find a command line
option to do it.

> 
> What people actually do is backup and restore their entire home
> directory. Sometimes they restore just pieces of it. Because, you know,
> they might be moving to a new laptop with a 256 GB SSD much smaller than
> the 1 TB hard drive they used to have.

And that works perfectly fine for Evolution.  You don't have to use the
menu backup/restore - but it is useful if you can't restore your whole
home directory.  In fact I haven't used the backup/restore facility for
years - I have either copied my whole home between machines or I have
decided to start fresh (which is always a good option after a few
years).

> 
> Evolution and Gnome itself are very unhelpful with this by spreading
> necessary information into at least three different directories:
> .local,
> .config and gsettings / dconf / gconf / whatever-conf.
> 
> One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla and
> Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.

Evolution conforms to Gnome standards, because it's a Gnome
application.  Firefox/Thunderbird aren't Gnome applications - if they
were they should store their data according to Gnome guidelines.

All part of the rich ecosystem of a Linux install.

P.

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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Zan Lynx]

On 09/08/2015 09:55 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> As has been said repeatedly, the "backup" command in Evo is not
> intended for periodic backups but for when you need to move your Evo
> installation to another machine.

If the Evolution developers are reading this I'd like to point out
(again) that expecting people to remember and use an obscure,
application-specific backup feature is unrealistic.

What people actually do is backup and restore their entire home
directory. Sometimes they restore just pieces of it. Because, you know,
they might be moving to a new laptop with a 256 GB SSD much smaller than
the 1 TB hard drive they used to have.

Evolution and Gnome itself are very unhelpful with this by spreading
necessary information into at least three different directories: .local,
.config and gsettings / dconf / gconf / whatever-conf.

One single .application directory like Firefox uses in .mozilla and
Thunderbird in .thunderbird is far more manageable and useful.
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[Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Dennis Reichel]

What are the best practices for backing up Evolution data? 

Though these are (mostly) general sorts of questions, I'm using
Evolution 3.16.5 on Fedora 22.

What specifically is backed up when you back up you "Backup Evolution
Data.."?

What can be done to ensure the entire email base is both downloaded
from the imap servers
and included in the backup archives?

Are contacts backed up? (including Google Contacts and CardDav
contacts)

How does this handle accounts that are created by "Gnome's Online
Account service"?

What happens if this backup is restored on a non-Gnome Linux machine?

Many Thanks
-- 

Best Regards, Dennis Reichel

cell 561-463-6020|den...@reichel.net|http://www.reichel.net

Technology|Social Media|Marketing|Management

The beautiful thing about learning is nobody
can take it away from you. -- BB King


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Re: [Evolution] Backing up Evolution Data

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Fri, 2015-09-04 at 12:19 -0400, Dennis Reichel wrote:
> What are the best practices for backing up Evolution data? 

I just back up my home directory. If you want more detail then look at
the Help topic on exporting Evolution data.

> Though these are (mostly) general sorts of questions, I'm using
> Evolution 3.16.5 on Fedora 22.

Same here.

> What specifically is backed up when you back up you "Backup Evolution
> Data.."?

Again, see the Help. It's important to realize that this is not
intended for regular backups. Its main purpose is to enable you to move
an Evo installation to a different machine.

> What can be done to ensure the entire email base is both downloaded
> from the imap servers and included in the backup archives?

Why would you want to do that? If your mail is on an IMAP server you
don't need to back it up. If you don't trust the server admins, then
download it yourself, either by dragging and dropping folders or using
the off-line synchronization option. Evo will not do this automatically
when you use the "backup" function.

> Are contacts backed up? (including Google Contacts and CardDav
> contacts)

No, you have to do that manually. See the Help.

> How does this handle accounts that are created by "Gnome's Online
> Account service"?

AFAIK there is no special treatment.

> What happens if this backup is restored on a non-Gnome Linux machine?

The "backup" is just a tar archive of Evo's local directories. You can
restore it anywhere, but to use it sensibly you probably need an Evo
installation, which means at least some Gnome libraries. i.e. it would
be painful (though not impossible) to read it on a Windows machine.

poc
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