[FairfieldLife] Hitopadesha on women (part 1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitopadesha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitopadesha Hitopadesha (Sanskrit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit :हितà¥à¤ªà¤¦à¥à¤¶ HitopadeÅa) is a collection of Sanskrit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit fables http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fable in prose and verse written in the 12 century C.E. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_century_C.E. It is an independent treatment of the Panchatantra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchatantra .[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitopadesha#cite_note-0 It is meant as an exposition on statecraft (including the conduct of war and peace and the development of allies) but was produced in a format easily digestible for young princes. ghRtakumbhasamaa naarii, taptaan.gaarasamaH pumaan.tasmaad ghRtaM ca vahniM ca naikatra sthaapayed budhaH. ghRta-kumbha-samaa naarii, tapta-an.gaara-samaH pumaan.tasmaat; ghRtam; ca vahnim; ca na; ekatra sthaapayet; budhaH. A woman is like a jar of butter, a man islike hot charcoal; a wise man should neverkeep butter and fire in the same place. A woman (naarii) is like (samaa: same [as]) a jar of butter (ghRta-kumbha), a man (pumaan) is like (samaH) hot charcoal (tapta-an.gara); [tasmaat: that's why(?)] a wise man (budhaH) should never keep (na...sthaapayet) butter (ghRtam) and (ca) fire (vahnim) in the same place (ekatra). Translated by Judit Törzsök (~ tir-sirk; prolly a Hungarian family name).
[FairfieldLife] Hitopadesha on women (part 2 )
na lajjaa, na viniitatvaM, na daakSiNyaM, na bhiirutaa - praarthanaabhaava evaikaH satiitve kaaraNaM striyaaH. na lajjaa, na viniitatvam; na daakSiNyam; na bhiirutaa - praarthanaa+abhaavaH; eva; ekaH satiitve kaaraNam; striyaaH. It is not shyness or propriety, nor is it good manners or fear - it is only because they are not propositioned that women stay virtuous. It is not (na) shyness (lajjaa) or (na) propriety (viniitatvam), nor is it (na) good manners (daakSiNyam) or (na) fear (bhiirutaa) - it is only because they are not propositioned that women stay virtuous. More literal translation of the second sentence: praarthanaa+abhaavaH (proposition-nonexistence); eva (verily); ekaH (one: only) satiitve (of virtuousness) kaaraNam (reason); striyaaH (of a woman).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic spiritual principles. Reveling in paradoxes *doesn't * mean moral judgement of others. Reveling in paradoxes is a highly internal experience, the paradoxes of love and hate and all the other conflicting emotions seen as a pure witness. Compare Mark's moral judgement of Judith as wonderful, honest person and then M as conflicting, bewildering array of emotions. With my limited Unity experiences I just can't see how I will ever be sexually frustrated, I was before not anymore. Sure I would love to have a partner, to have sex but I have been single since last year and I am not old, like the old farts here on FFL, there are sexual thoughts similar to other thoughts but there's no pain, suffering, frustration. Similarly I can't see a man like M not acting decently with people for money. Mark can't seem to realize that the conflicting, bewildering emotions were all his. The positive energy was *his*, the negative energy was *his* as well. A Satguru is a pure mirror and just reflects, reflects so completely, thoroughly enough for us to peek into ourselves, to see the paradoxes in *ourselves*, to see the contradictions in *ourselves*, to heal them, acknowledge them, in ourselves and be a pure witness to them. So Mark, hope you get the highest bidder for M's sandals, as they surely deserve, however don't expect me to buy this multi-dimensional crap. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tedadams108 no_reply@... wrote: My intent was not to discuss a paradox, rather a contradiction. Perhaps much of the interview was removed in post production which skewed the impression that was given. And I guess people continue to find a way to meditate despite believing the paradox. I appreciate Mark's honesty even though I disagree with his need to be in a film. What is the motivation to point out the bad. Was the ego hurt that bad as to make it difficult to quietly enjoy what appeared to be very good experiences with Maharishi? Apparently for Mark the bad in the paradox outweighed the good, otherwise it would be harder to give up sandals. I have a book that Maharishi wrote in for me that would be very difficult to sell. Perhaps if I was more absorbed in the paradox it would be easier, but because my ego is not intertwined in it, to give it up for some money would be very difficult. Having said that, a person has to do what they have to do. If Mark needs money that bad, and selling sandals is a way to pay off some debts, so be it. Pointing out a paradox, of good and bad, does not negate the effect of speaking out the bad. At least in his response Mark is more forthcoming. Now the eventual buyer of the sandals can know more about how the seller feels about Maharishi and decide whether to let that influence his/her decision. I see a catch 22 here, the eventual buyer likely will not accept the paradox. As such, the likely market for the sandals, at least for a significant amount of money, are the very people who are going to be turned off by the revelation by Mark of the paradox. They unlikely will want to financially support someone with such a view and will boycott the purchase. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: Wow, are we one dimensional? I believe it's the sign of a developed being that he or she can easily hold all the paradoxes. Not only can I have it both ways, but I must have it both ways and, beyond that, have it all ways that were, are or ever will be, if I am to do any justice to truth and reality. That's a lot of ways. I also believe that, ultimately, we must go beyond all the paradoxes and polarities, including the polarity of good and bad (and that, of course, doesn't mean that we rush out to do all the bad things we possibly can ASAP). The truth of the matter, if anyone cares, is that, like Judith Bourke, who I find to be a wonderful, honest person, I was in love with him (no, prurient ones, not that way, though there are things I could say about that, too) and the notion and seeming experience that TM could transform the world for the better. Why else would I work seven days a week for the movement for nearly five years and pay significantly to do so? Are we not all some blend of the three gunas? Aren't there glorious and dark things about all of us? M was no different. One of the most glorious things about him was his energy. I lived and basked in it pretty much straight for the seven months I was skin boy and for a lot of the five years I was with him. I went through withdrawal for two years when I lost it. That's my voice in the background of DWTF when David cut to the archival footage of M entering the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Look! Talking donkeys! Haha ! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:35 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Did anyone else notice that in this single post Mark said more positive things about Maharishi than tedadams and danfriedman have said in all of the posts they've made to Fairfield Life combined? Actually rather inspiring and hopeful. And he's OK with either side of the coin.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tedadams108 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:11 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals I do have compassion for Mark or anyone in financial difficulties. I have been observing the comments on Fairfield Life for many years but until today was not inspired to post one of my own. For some reason it was hard for me to resist pointing out the hypocrisy since I had just seen the film. Perhaps I was a little colorful with my words, but they pale in comparison to the words used in the interview. Obviously there are people on here that fit either into the pro-TM camp or the anti-TM camp. I apparently hit a nerve. I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out the facts and people can spin them the way they want. Interestingly, those who have an issue with my post are not addressing it's main point, rather my mention of being compassionate or acknowledging that many have enjoyed financial success and have attributed it to their TM practice. The main point is not debatable. The main reason it's not debatable is that you don't trust your memory well enough to tell us what Mark said, so we can't very well debate something we know nothing about. In sharp contrast to the content of the gossipy posts you are making on behalf of friends I presume...
[FairfieldLife] New Crop Circle; Cherhill Down, Wiltshire. Reported 20th July
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2011/cherhilldown/cherhilldown2011a.html
[FairfieldLife] Hitopadesha on women (part 3 )
(Just killing time, waiting for the potentially catastrophic Nokia news at 13.00 CET(?)...) suruupaM puruSaM dRSTvaa bhraataraM yadi vaa sutam yoniH klidyati naariiNaam aamapaatram ivaambhasaa. su-ruupaM puruSam; dRSTvaa bhraataram; yadi vaa sutam yoniH klidyati naariiNaam aama-paatram iva ambhasaa. When they see a handsome man, even if he is a brother or a son, women's private parts grow as moist as an unbaked clay pot. When they see (dRSTvaa; so called absolutive form of the verb 'dRsh' - 'to see') a handsome (suruupam) man (puruSam), even if (yadi) he is a brother (bhraataram) or (vaa) a son (sutam), women's (naariiNaam) private parts (yoniH) grow as moist (klidyati) as (iva) an unbaked clay pot (aama-paatram...[ambhasaa: with/by water?]).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic spiritual principles. Reveling in paradoxes *doesn't * mean moral judgement of others. Reveling in paradoxes is a highly internal experience, the paradoxes of love and hate and all the other conflicting emotions seen as a pure witness. Compare Mark's moral judgement of Judith as wonderful, honest person and then M as conflicting, bewildering array of emotions. With my limited Unity experiences I just can't see how I will ever be sexually frustrated, I was before not anymore. Sure I would love to have a partner, to have sex but I have been single since last year and I am not old, like the old farts here on FFL, there are sexual thoughts similar to other thoughts but there's no pain, suffering, frustration. Similarly I can't see a man like M not acting decently with people for money. Mark can't seem to realize that the conflicting, bewildering emotions were all his. The positive energy was *his*, the negative energy was *his* as well. A Satguru is a pure mirror and just reflects, reflects so completely, thoroughly enough for us to peek into ourselves, to see the paradoxes in *ourselves*, to see the contradictions in *ourselves*, to heal them, acknowledge them, in ourselves and be a pure witness to them. So Mark, hope you get the highest bidder for M's sandals, as they surely deserve, however don't expect me to buy this multi-dimensional crap. Very interesting post Ravi. For someone who personally experienced Maharishi and had an intuition developed to a minimum, what you write is obvious, but coming from an outstander this is simply brilliantly observed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Thanks Nabby. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: Very interesting post Ravi. For someone who personally experienced Maharishi and had an intuition developed to a minimum, what you write is obvious, but coming from an outstander this is simply brilliantly observed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic spiritual principles. Reveling in paradoxes *doesn't * mean moral judgement of others. Reveling in paradoxes is a highly internal experience, the paradoxes of love and hate and all the other conflicting emotions seen as a pure witness. Compare Mark's moral judgement of Judith as wonderful, honest person and then M as conflicting, bewildering array of emotions. With my limited Unity experiences I just can't see how I will ever be sexually frustrated, I was before not anymore. Sure I would love to have a partner, to have sex but I have been single since last year and I am not old, like the old farts here on FFL, there are sexual thoughts similar to other thoughts but there's no pain, suffering, frustration. Similarly I can't see a man like M not acting decently with people for money. Mark can't seem to realize that the conflicting, bewildering emotions were all his. The positive energy was *his*, the negative energy was *his* as well. A Satguru is a pure mirror and just reflects, reflects so completely, thoroughly enough for us to peek into ourselves, to see the paradoxes in *ourselves*, to see the contradictions in *ourselves*, to heal them, acknowledge them, in ourselves and be a pure witness to them. So Mark, hope you get the highest bidder for M's sandals, as they surely deserve, however don't expect me to buy this multi-dimensional crap.
[FairfieldLife] If you were a lurker...
...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by.
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by. If they had to choose between the Buddhist haters of TM, and regular TM'ers based on what the different groups write here ? If they are having a minimum of intuition intact the answer would be rather straightworward.
[FairfieldLife] Frog In A Pot syndrome
An interesting metaphor-- although based on an experiment which failed to be non-replicatable -- involved the idea that a frog (cold-blooded, and thus having its internal temperature determined by outside temperature) placed in a pot of boiling water, would immediately perceive the danger and hop out. However, according to this metaphor, place the frog in a pot of cold water and gradually -- very slowly -- increase the temperature, and the frog would stay there until it boiled to death. While untrue, I feel that the metaphor is still a useful one, because it reveals a lot about how people's belief systems evolve over time, and how the people holding these belief systems become unaware that they were either taught to them, or that they have over time come to regard the beliefs as fact. Take a belief that has arisen on this forum recently, that saying something less than flattering about one's spiritual teacher is not only questionable, but a Bad Thing, something that renders the speaker a Bad Person. Where could such a belief have come from? It's not as if anyone was born with it. It pretty much has to have been taught to them. And why does this belief center on spiritual teachers? If you heard of someone going a bit haywire and trying to demonize someone for saying less than flattering things about one of your university or high-school teachers, would you feel the same need or desire to get in their faces and call them names, or spend inordinate amounts of time trying to get others to see them as negatively as you do? I'm suggesting that this is learned behavior, and that the learning took place gradually, over many years or decades, and that as a result many have forgotten that is IS learned behavior, and that it was taught to them. They just accept the behavior as if it's not only natural and normal, it's high dharma or being a kind of spiritual warrior or following the will of God to bash those who dare to say something less than flatter- ing about the spiritual teacher *who taught them to believe in this meme*. Believers in the meme think nothing of considering a person who is -- bottom line -- nothing but a teacher, on the same level as any other teacher, as superhuman, or their Master. They make up bhaktified poems praising the teacher the same way that other seekers make up poems about God. They come to believe that the things the teacher said are synonymous with the word of God. Many develop an inability to distinguish the teacher *from* God. And they consider all of this natural and normal. It's this natural and normal thang that I think relates to the frog in a pot metaphor. People who have been taught this meme in my experience often lose touch with how they would be perceived by someone who doesn't believe it, someone who didn't experience the same year-after-year, decade-after-decade imprinting and (dare I say it) indoctrination they did. The heat was raised under their belief system so grad- ually, and over so long a period, that they have come to regard it as not only fact, but as something self- evident. Some will deny that it was, in fact, taught to them. And many, when their somewhat aberrant behavior is pointed out to them, are by that time so close to boiling that they are incapable of seeing themselves as other non-indoctrinated people might see them. They think these people are WRONG, or that they are attacking them personally by saying something less than flattering about the person who has taught them that saying anything less than flat- tering about him made them a Bad Person. I think it's a Good Thing to step back every so often from the belief systems and behaviors one assumes to be natural and normal and check oneself out in the mirror of Other People's Perceptions. These other people who hear your beliefs or watch your behavior and look upon them as the polar opposite of natural and normal just might be onto something. They might be warning you that you're starting to look a little pinkish, and that you might want to check the temper- ature of the belief system pot you're swimming in.
[FairfieldLife] Frog In A Pot syndrome
An interesting metaphor-- although based on an experiment which failed to be replicatable -- involved the idea that a frog (cold-blooded, and thus having its internal temperature determined by outside temperature) placed in a pot of boiling water, would immediately perceive the danger and hop out. However, according to this metaphor, place the frog in a pot of cold water and gradually -- very slowly -- increase the temperature, and the frog would stay there until it boiled to death. While untrue, I feel that the metaphor is still a useful one, because it reveals a lot about how people's belief systems evolve over time, and how the people holding these belief systems become unaware that they were either taught to them, or that they have over time come to regard the beliefs as fact. Take a belief that has arisen on this forum recently, that saying something less than flattering about one's spiritual teacher is not only questionable, but a Bad Thing, something that renders the speaker a Bad Person. Where could such a belief have come from? It's not as if anyone was born with it. It pretty much has to have been taught to them. And why does this belief center on spiritual teachers? If you heard of someone going a bit haywire and trying to demonize someone for saying less than flattering things about one of your university or high-school teachers, would you feel the same need or desire to get in their faces and call them names, or spend inordinate amounts of time trying to get others to see them as negatively as you do? I'm suggesting that this is learned behavior, and that the learning took place gradually, over many years or decades, and that as a result many have forgotten that is IS learned behavior, and that it was taught to them. They just accept the behavior as if it's not only natural and normal, it's high dharma or being a kind of spiritual warrior or following the will of God to bash those who dare to say something less than flatter- ing about the spiritual teacher *who taught them to believe in this meme*. Believers in the meme think nothing of considering a person who is -- bottom line -- nothing but a teacher, on the same level as any other teacher, as superhuman, or their Master. They make up bhaktified poems praising the teacher the same way that other seekers make up poems about God. They come to believe that the things the teacher said are synonymous with the word of God. Many develop an inability to distinguish the teacher *from* God. And they consider all of this natural and normal. It's this natural and normal thang that I think relates to the frog in a pot metaphor. People who have been taught this meme in my experience often lose touch with how they would be perceived by someone who doesn't believe it, someone who didn't experience the same year-after-year, decade-after-decade imprinting and (dare I say it) indoctrination they did. The heat was raised under their belief system so grad- ually, and over so long a period, that they have come to regard it as not only fact, but as something self- evident. Some will deny that it was, in fact, taught to them. And many, when their somewhat aberrant behavior is pointed out to them, are by that time so close to boiling that they are incapable of seeing themselves as other non-indoctrinated people might see them. They think these people are WRONG, or that they are attacking them personally by saying something less than flattering about the person who has taught them that saying anything less than flat- tering about him made them a Bad Person. I think it's a Good Thing to step back every so often from the belief systems and behaviors one assumes to be natural and normal and check oneself out in the mirror of Other People's Perceptions. These other people who hear your beliefs or watch your behavior and look upon them as the polar opposite of natural and normal just might be onto something. They might be warning you that you're starting to look a little pinkish, and that you might want to check the temper- ature of the belief system pot you're swimming in.
[FairfieldLife] The Alarming Revival of Ayn Rand: The Right's Weirdest Idol
The Alarming Revival of Ayn Rand: The Right's Weirdest Idol of Them All By Hal Crowther, Progressive Populist Posted on July 18, 2011, Printed on July 20, 2011 http://www.alternet.org/story/151674/the_alarming_revival_of_ayn_rand% 3A_the_right%27s_weirdest_idol_of_them_all The Republican Party’s slapstick search for a leader would be heartwarming and sidesplitting, but for the tragic knowledge that one of these scrambling midgets will collect tens of millions of votes in the presidential election of 2012. Never have so many amounted to so little, talked so much rubbish, dreamed of an office so far above their abilities. Blood pressures rose among party elders when Donald Trump, marginally Republican and one of the greatest fools in the solar system, momentarily tossed his hairpiece into the ring and became the instant favorite. The GOP dilemma — a golden opportunity to rule but nothing to say and no one to say it — is so desperate that my instinct is to help them sort it out. Could we make a start, at least, by dismissing candidates who called for President Obama’s birth certificate or raised the specter of Sharia law in America, followed briskly off the stage by lunatics who dismiss global warming as a socialist plot? That would leave plenty of unbalanced extremists still in the running, yet reduce the stench of sheer evil and madness. The “birther” and Sharia cults reek of cheesy talk-radio racism; climate- change denial is a stranger faith yet, a political assault on basic science that insults a ground squirrel’s intelligence and casually threatens the survival of life on earth. The party that produces birthers and global-warming deniers no doubt harbors End-of-the-Worlders, too, Christians who packed their bags for heaven with the senile prophet Harold Camping on May 21. Though none of them, I suppose, would commit to the time and expense of a presidential campaign just to preside over a nation of sinners expiring in fire and pestilence. Leo Rangell, the prominent Freudian analyst whose obituary is in this morning’s Times, once lamented that the American public is “gullible or easily seduced, and susceptible to leaders of questionable character.” Dr. Rangell wrote that in 1980, long before gullibility became such an epidemic that we began to doubt the value of our schools, before media demagogues made a billion-dollar industry of manipulating our most credulous citizens, before the Republican Party dedicated itself to gathering most of them into its fold. Before Rush Limbaugh, before Fox News, before the Tea Party. “Finally, people’s stupidity will break your heart,” observed my father, a small-town politician and a loyal Republican of the moderate traditional strain that has been systematically exterminated by the radical Right. My father lived long enough to vote for George McGovern and against Ronald Reagan, but the rhetoric GOP candidates churn out to charm this Tea Party would sound extraterrestrial to most Republicans of his generation. The odious hypocrite Newt Gingrich, who considered himself a serious presidential candidate until his entire staff abandoned him in disgust, rests his appeal on his intellectual superiority to Sarah Palin and Rick Perry — a distinction much like being a faster runner than Dom DeLuise. In his obligatory pre-campaign book Gingrich claims that Barack Obama, a cautious centrist if there ever was one, drives a “secular-socialist machine” that “represents as great a threat to America as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union once did.” Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, Father Coughlin, move over. Newt is just full of Shariah, among other things, and accuses Obama of “Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior,” a blatant pitch for the racist vote the Tea Party has re-energized. A colossal irony — demonstrating how hopelessly divided America has become — is that the radical philosopher Cornel West, a black Princeton professor, calls Obama “a black mascot of Wall Street oligarchs and a black puppet of corporate plutocrats.” This is not helpful of Dr. West, nor even responsible. He and Newt Gingrich are equally useless if a calmer, more logical and coherent political culture is what we’re after. But if I had to say which of these two hostile portraits of our president is less preposterous, I’m sure I’d choose West’s. Virtually all the valid criticism of Barack Obama has come from the left. When Tea-stained legislators gut environmental laws to protect corporate profits, when they sneer at climate change while America bakes in its bedrock like a big green casserole — when Republican educational reform means classrooms with fewer teachers and more guns — there’s a temptation for reasonable Americans to throw up their hands and succumb to despair. Is it a death wish or a scheme to kill the rest of us, when “conservatives” fight against clean air laws,
Re: [FairfieldLife] If you were a lurker...
On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:42 AM, turquoiseb wrote: One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Come on, Barry~~that's not the problem. Why didn't he mention it upfront then, if he's so honest about it? It's deceptive. Not to mention that every suggestion (or almost every) that he's gotten as to how he could go about selling the sandals he has made excuses as to why that's beyond him, and whined about why nobody is giving him millions, and how is he going to live for the next 20 years, blah blah blah. As if it's the responsibility of anyone else other than himself to remedy his situation. This guy is 65?? It's pathetic. He's wasted his life in flaky, pseudo- spiritual pursuits (take a look at his website) instead of actually, you know, working, and now he expects the universe, apparently, to reimburse him. Or some TM-related sugar-daddy. I wish him luck. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Dan, as my kids would say, clearly has issues. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. Dumb and immature. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. Which he undoubtedly never would have made if someone hadn't mentioned the movie. Damage-control. I sure hope that isn't your idea of honest. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2011, at 4:42 AM, turquoiseb wrote: One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Come on, Barry~~that's not the problem. Why didn't he mention it upfront then, if he's so honest about it? It's deceptive. I disagree. The word I would us is irrelevant. Why should what he personally believes about Maharishi have any relationship to the value of what he's trying to sell *to those who would consider it of value*? To me Ted's position is the equivalent of finding a real estate listing in Fairfield for someone trying to sell their S-V house, realizing who was selling it, and going online to prospective buyers and saying, You *know* that this person has had his dome pass taken away for 'seeing other teachers' don't you? Do you really want to live in a place that has been infected by such low vibes? Do you want to 'support' such a person? Not to mention that every suggestion (or almost every) that he's gotten as to how he could go about selling the sandals he has made excuses as to why that's beyond him, and whined about why nobody is giving him millions, and how is he going to live for the next 20 years, blah blah blah. As if it's the responsibility of anyone else other than himself to remedy his situation. That I'll give you. I think that's a bit off, but not necessarily surprising for someone who has been out of the world as long as Mark has. This guy is 65?? It's pathetic. He's wasted his life in flaky, pseudo- spiritual pursuits (take a look at his website) instead of actually, you know, working, and now he expects the universe, apparently, to reimburse him. Or some TM-related sugar-daddy. I wish him luck. I would not say that he has wasted his life, no more than I'd say that about Nabby, or Curtis, or myself. We made choices. Now we get to make do with the fallout of those choices. These sandals represent one of the only tangible assets Mark has as a result of his choices; I think it's his prerogative to do with them what he wants. I also think it's the right of people who might consider them a kind of holy relic (and I think you know that I'm not one of them) to purchase them from him if they want to, without being told that by doing so they are supporting an enemy of the movement. THAT is what Ted is trying to say IMO. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Dan, as my kids would say, clearly has issues. Clearly. DQ does not always stand for Dairy Queen. :-) Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. Dumb and immature. But rarely called what it is on this forum. People accept it as if it's normal. What does THAT say about the spiritual environment in which this behavior came to be regarded as normal? On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. Which he undoubtedly never would have made if someone hadn't mentioned the movie. Damage-control. I sure hope that isn't your idea of honest. You can see it that way if you want. He may have originally seen the movie and his alleged partici- pation in it the way I do, as irrelevant. I suspect he was as shocked as I was to see it being used here to not only demonize him, but keep him from being able to sell these friggin' sandals. That really IS Ted's intent, as far as I can tell; he wants to *punish* Mark for having said the things he said. If there is anyone being dishonest, I think it's him, not Mark. When Rick says positive things about Maharishi, as he often does, do you consider that damage control, or what he really believes? Same with Curtis. He also committed the Cardinal Sin of speaking to reporters. So when he says the occasional positive thing about the benefit he feels he received from his time in the TMO, or his continuing practice of TM, is he being dishonest in your opinion? I get it. You think that on one level the whole idea of these friggin' sandals being considered holy relics because they contain microtraces of MMY's holy footsweat is silly. I do, too, as should have been obvious by me riffing on Judith or some of the other women he had sex
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Everyone is a paradox Alex. Maharishi says himself in BG I think it was that all of us are a combo of good and bad. I did think he was perfect once, but that was 30 years ago, and pretty much irrelevant. This guy Mark is a hypocrite and kinda sleazy, imo. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: I'm surprised, Jim, because I would have thought that you, of all people, would have no problem with holding a paradoxical view of MMY. Is the problem for you that it's inextricably tied to a used sandal salesman's sales tactic? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: All of this speculation is fun, though I doubt very much that multi-dimensional Mark is going to see a life changing amount of money from this. My offer for ten bucks and free shipping stands. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tedadams108 no_reply@ wrote: My intent was not to discuss a paradox, rather a contradiction. Perhaps much of the interview was removed in post production which skewed the impression that was given. And I guess people continue to find a way to meditate despite believing the paradox. I appreciate Mark's honesty even though I disagree with his need to be in a film. What is the motivation to point out the bad. Was the ego hurt that bad as to make it difficult to quietly enjoy what appeared to be very good experiences with Maharishi? Apparently for Mark the bad in the paradox outweighed the good, otherwise it would be harder to give up sandals. I have a book that Maharishi wrote in for me that would be very difficult to sell. Perhaps if I was more absorbed in the paradox it would be easier, but because my ego is not intertwined in it, to give it up for some money would be very difficult. Having said that, a person has to do what they have to do. If Mark needs money that bad, and selling sandals is a way to pay off some debts, so be it. Pointing out a paradox, of good and bad, does not negate the effect of speaking out the bad. At least in his response Mark is more forthcoming. Now the eventual buyer of the sandals can know more about how the seller feels about Maharishi and decide whether to let that influence his/her decision. I see a catch 22 here, the eventual buyer likely will not accept the paradox. As such, the likely market for the sandals, at least for a significant amount of money, are the very people who are going to be turned off by the revelation by Mark of the paradox. They unlikely will want to financially support someone with such a view and will boycott the purchase. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: Wow, are we one dimensional? I believe it's the sign of a developed being that he or she can easily hold all the paradoxes. Not only can I have it both ways, but I must have it both ways and, beyond that, have it all ways that were, are or ever will be, if I am to do any justice to truth and reality. That's a lot of ways. I also believe that, ultimately, we must go beyond all the paradoxes and polarities, including the polarity of good and bad (and that, of course, doesn't mean that we rush out to do all the bad things we possibly can ASAP). The truth of the matter, if anyone cares, is that, like Judith Bourke, who I find to be a wonderful, honest person, I was in love with him (no, prurient ones, not that way, though there are things I could say about that, too) and the notion and seeming experience that TM could transform the world for the better. Why else would I work seven days a week for the movement for nearly five years and pay significantly to do so? Are we not all some blend of the three gunas? Aren't there glorious and dark things about all of us? M was no different. One of the most glorious things about him was his energy. I lived and basked in it pretty much straight for the seven months I was skin boy and for a lot of the five years I was with him. I went through withdrawal for two years when I lost it. That's my voice in the background of DWTF when David cut to the archival footage of M entering the hall with Jerry carrying the skin saying something like, It was like divine air came down from heaven and I got addicted to it. Is that so very negative? In one other sentence I said something like, Remember how I said he could get into you and help you sleep? He could also get into you and completely pulverize you. Is that both negative and positive? Of course, one-dimensional believers would say having M pulverize you would be the greatest blessing. It could only be all positive. But what if he did it because he was pissed, out of sorts or sexually frustrated? Yes, IME, he definitely
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That was me Barry. You are one to talk, with the vile and disgusting words you use against others.I called you and Vaj donkeys because I was trying to be polite and not call you jackasses, jackass. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: ...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Yes, smart donkeys. Can probably tap out simple sums with their hooves. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Donkeys or asses or something else, I'm going to leave this to any expert zoologist on this list to classify them accordingly but I have to say these beasts are highly adaptable and chameleon like, quick to position themselves to devour their favorite targets. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Surely you don't mean doneys; you mean talking asses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Look! Talking donkeys! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:35 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Did anyone else notice that in this single post Mark said more positive things about Maharishi than tedadams and danfriedman have said in all of the posts they've made to Fairfield Life combined? Actually rather inspiring and hopeful. And he's OK with either side of the coin.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
On Jul 21, 2011, at 7:33 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Come on, Barry~~that's not the problem. Why didn't he mention it upfront then, if he's so honest about it? It's deceptive. I disagree. The word I would us is irrelevant. It's completely relevant. He's trying to sell something that belonged to someone he was once devoted to but now apparently disdains, quite strongly, without letting on how he has trash-talked the guy. If what he was trying to sell wasn't based on devotion to begin with, you might have a case. In this case, it's the height of hypocrisy. He mentions how much he spent while in the TMO~~so what? It was his own choice. The universe, or anyone else, does not owe him some cosmic reimbursement. And implying it does, vis a vis these sandals or any other way, is enabling. Not to mention that selling someone's old, smelly shoes is kind of, well, weird. Why should what he personally believes about Maharishi have any relationship to the value of what he's trying to sell *to those who would consider it of value*? It isn't what he believes, it what he says out of one side of his mouth, and then out of the other. A simple disclaimer at the beginning would have remedied that. Not to mention that every suggestion (or almost every) that he's gotten as to how he could go about selling the sandals he has made excuses as to why that's beyond him, and whined about why nobody is giving him millions, and how is he going to live for the next 20 years, blah blah blah. As if it's the responsibility of anyone else other than himself to remedy his situation. That I'll give you. I think that's a bit off, but not necessarily surprising for someone who has been out of the world as long as Mark has. This guy is 65?? It's pathetic. He's wasted his life in flaky, pseudo- spiritual pursuits (take a look at his website) instead of actually, you know, working, and now he expects the universe, apparently, to reimburse him. Or some TM-related sugar-daddy. I wish him luck. I would not say that he has wasted his life, no more than I'd say that about Nabby, or Curtis, or myself. We made choices. Now we get to make do with the fallout of those choices. You and Curtis are paying your own way without begging for $$ from strangers~~whole different thing. I realize he picked up this pathetic habit in the TMO, but it's been over 25 years since he worked there. Isn't it time to move on, and realize that whatever he learned there vis-a-vis using your friends to support your lifestyle, doesn't work? And that maybe he should take some responsibility for his own situation, without still blaming MMY, while simultaneously feigning devotion here. When Rick says positive things about Maharishi, as he often does, do you consider that damage control, or what he really believes? Same with Curtis. He also committed the Cardinal Sin of speaking to reporters. And when have they ever tried to sell any of MMY's garbage as holy relics? I'm not sure why you keep mentioning false equivalencies. They're not trying to make $$ by pretending to be something that they're not. So when he says the occasional positive thing about the benefit he feels he received from his time in the TMO, or his continuing practice of TM, is he being dishonest in your opinion? See above. I get it. You think that on one level the whole idea of these friggin' sandals being considered holy relics because they contain microtraces of MMY's holy footsweat is silly. I do, too, as should have been obvious by me riffing on Judith or some of the other women he had sex with selling off their blue dresses, Monica Lewinsky-style. But on the other hand, as such diverse people as Curtis and Judy have said, I fully recognize that for many people these sandals *would* have a real value, and that they might feel lucky to have them. For a million bucks? Probably not. For that much you could buy yourself a Burger King crown and some robes and wear them in public. It's not like anyone is going to be able to wear these sandals down to the mall and have anyone notice them emanating a brilliant golden glow and fall at the feet of the person wearing them in fervent worship. But some might enjoy keeping them in their house or on their meditation table, for whatever value they might have *for them*. I see nothing wrong with this, if they've got the money. I *do* see something wrong with trying to get between these potential buyers and the merchandise by implying heavily that the seller is a Bad Person for doing nothing more than what we do every day on this forum -- honestly speak- ing his mind. Again, see above. It's not the selling, it's the hypocrisy. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Everyone is a paradox Alex. Maharishi says himself in BG I think it was that all of us are a combo of good and bad. I did think he was perfect once, but that was 30 years ago, and pretty much irrelevant. Not to mention that Maharishi answered a normal human being when asked who he really was.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
After seeing the film David Wants to Fly, the interview with Mark is not flattering of Maharishi...to say the least... turquoiseb: Why should it be? Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@... wrote: After seeing the film David Wants to Fly, the interview with Mark is not flattering of Maharishi...to say the least... turquoiseb: Why should it be? Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt Great minds discuss whatever interests them, inclluding interesting people, average minds discuss what other people think they should discuss, and small minds try to set rules on what interests other people enough to discuss as if thier own interests are the gold standard for dicussion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Zombie in My Gas Tank
Ravi, Thank you for giving my proposal serious consideration. I can't say its not a blow to my plans for Zombie, but I believe I will somehow rise from the ashes. Also thank you for your thoughtful suggestions for alternative guests. Unfortunately, as exceptional as many of these guests would be, I don't think they could command the kind of ratings a real star like yourself would generate for a launch. As I'm sure you know, a show like this will live or die by its ratings. These days celebrity is everything and frankly who besides you and a certain Zebra have the shear wattage needed to but bums in the seats. You obviously understand, but for lurkers out there I should clarify the metaphor that is Zombie In My Gas Tank. As previously stated the forum will discuss all issues relating to emotional intelligence (EI). As I believe most people have noticed-thanks to the Internet, there is no shortage of real smart asses out there. FFL is just one manifestation of this phenomenon. But how many fully understand the power of giving of walking a mile in someones sandals? I see Zombie as a metaphor for the narcissus and echo virus that lives in all of us. A quote from the Internet explains more: Concerned about the baby's welfare, Leirope (Narcissus mother) went to consult the oracle called Teiresias regarding her son's future. Teiresias told the nymph that Narcissus would live to a ripe old age, as long as he never knew himself. More at: http://thanasis.com/echo.htm I agree, the world seems to be divided into the self absorbed and their enablers but IMO the real story is that both these characteristic live in all of us until we can find the empathy for others needed shed this bondage. I have not completely given up on the possibility of securing you as a guest but of course that is for another post. In the meantime I believe St Francis said it better than I ever could. Lord, make me a channel of thy peace. That where there is hatred I may bring love, That where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness, That where there is discord, I may bring harmony, That where there is error I may bring truth, That where there is doubt I may bring faith, That where there is despair I may bring hope, That where there are shadows I may bring light, That where there is sadness I may bring joy. Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted, To understand than to be understood, To love than to be loved. For it is by forgetting self that one finds. It is by forgiving that one is forgiven, it is by dying that one awakens to eternal life. Amen. From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:36:10 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Zombie in My Gas Tank Hey Bob, granted we have had deep and meaningful conversations about relation of CD to un-evolved minds (OK, OK I admit it was mostly one-way); granted I did a very convincing act at batgap and you are looking up to my acting skills to make your show a hit but I just can't do this to you my man, I can't break your heart, derail this admirable project of yours. Pretending to be a Buddha is right up my alley but to be a zombie not, pretending to be a Buddha was easy to pull off with being a dark skinned Indian but not being a zombie. Being a zombie requires different skills, different cultural conditioning, a highly un-cluttered, un-fettered, un-evolved mind. There are many others here who are well qualified - may I dare suggest your dear friend Barry, with his skills and low vibe, slime-ball reputation he will be a total hit. And hey, you yourself in the footsteps of Rick, do.rflex, Yifu - all of you would do a wonderful job. After having made the grade through my batgap act, I will stick to mocking the un-evolved, a little trick I learned from your dear friend. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: Ravi, I was quite pleased to see you accepted the peace offering in my cognitive dissonance post. Thank you for your thoughtful response. I feel, our relationship is deepening with each exchange. I have to admit, my desire to bury the spitballs was a little self-serving, as I'm hoping you will consider doing me a very big favor. As you know, I've been working diligently on launching a new pod-cast with the working title Zombie in My Gas Tank. The mission of Zombie will be to explore, go where no one has gone before, any and all questions concerning Emotional Intelligence (EI). I'm hoping for a thoughtful investigation into something, I feel is almost as important as enlightenment. And because, I'm such a huge believer in all things related to TM. I believe, I've come up with a concept that could be described as doing less and accomplishing more. Instead of using Skype or expensive recording equipment- not to mention that deer in the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
I believe that there is an important distinction between agenda and point of view. If David is to be believed about his initial interest in the project, he did not come in with an agenda to make the movement look bad. Quite the opposite, he liked his TM practice and admired David Lynch. What developed through his project was something that distinguishes this kind of work from a piece on 60 minutes, his own POV which then shaped how he edited the piece. It is your POV that would shape a documentary with the balance that there is more positive than negative in a documentary about Maharishi and his movement. But that was not the conclusion he came to for himself if we are to believe the second hand reports about the film. (I am open to the idea that when I see it, I might declare it balanced according to my own POV.) You and I, Mark, Robin and many others had the experience of falling in love with Maharishi the person. I don't think David had this experience. So it is unlikely that he would take Mark's positive description of his time with Maharishi with the same weight we might. And then again we will value his experiences very differently according to our POV and supporting belief structure. Having sent my own experiences with Maharishi through my updated epistemological sausage grinder, I can both relate to Mark's personal experiences around Maharishi while not giving them the same weight in their being more of a description of reality, than a compelling subjective experience that has more to do with Mark than Maharishi. While being sympathetic concerning the compelling nature of these experiences, I may have come to different conclusions about what they ultimately mean in our quest to understand life. But a good documentary is not only judged by how much it conforms to an idea of balance. Give me a camera crew and I will create an advocacy piece for my own POV and make it as compelling as possible while trying to stay within ethical bounds of not deliberately misleading the viewer. And the viewer and judge if the POV shared is a compelling case or is just a skewed view. I trust a piece more that lets me in on the director's POV rather than a doc whose bias is either not explicit, or worse yet, when the director's bias is unknown to themselves. We also have the conflicting mixed bag that presents itself when we get into reporting on something as complex as Maharishi and his minions. Having spent some time with the press who tried to get the story as David did, I can report that the movement presents itself as vain, fey, pompous, deluded and creepily unaware that its bullshit PR is not flying to outsiders trying to get the story right. I heard time and time again that the story they were trying to tell got turned into the resistance of the movement to their telling it objectively. And the switch from Goulab Jamin sweet to the raging Bevan was often swift and sometimes scary. Without an insider's view that we shared, the movement looks like any other self important group who claims exclusive possession of the highest teaching. And I really can't argue with them because I suspect they are right. My enjoyment of TM and my affection for Maharishi does not mean that I am any closer to understanding the reality of life than someone who does not share my personal history. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: David, who made the film, definitely had an agenda. He interviewed me by phone. I emphasized repeatedly that he should tell the whole story, and that an honest telling would contain more positive than negative. But it appears that he just wanted to do a hatchet job. So he interviewed Mark for two hours, and chose something Mark said during those two hours that sounds negative. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tedadams108 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals Rick, You're correct, I just didn't want to go on memory regarding any particular thing Mark said. I watched the film late at night, it's in german, and I was not focused only on what Mark said. If I knew this issue regarding the sandals was going to come up today I would have paid more attention. Fortunately in his response, Mark does talk about some of the things he said, albeit with a different slant than what comes out in the film. If you read Mark's post it's clear that unlike your impression that Mark never said anything bad about Maharishi, that in the film several negative things are said. Granted Mark's point about a paradox requires some positive points be made. Anyone who views the film will not debate how Maharishi was portrayed by Mark. There seems to be a tendency for people on here to make complicated and pick apart something that was intended to be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon
There are some people, including Srila Prabhupada, who think that the moon landing was a hoax. FWIW, Prabhupada thought that the Moon was further away than the Sun. He also thought that there are spiritual beings and water on the Moon. As such, in vedic literature, the Moon is the significator of soma and abundance here on Earth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: On the anniversary of the first man on the moon, and with the final space shuttle mission set to end Thursday, Wired.com takes a look back at the extraordinary amount of training astronauts go through before they are mission ready. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/07/moon-landing-gallery/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: MZ, Thank you for the wink across cyber land, a wink back at ya! Â This link says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPUE-tne5U Thats a post of 32 pages for those of us who reade this on the net ! Don't you know how to snip ? snip
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling
Nabster, I think I speak for both MZ and myself when I say we're flattered you'd read 32 pages of our stuff, from the sound of it, twice. If you liked it wait till you see my FFL script. Until then: I'm Walking on Sunshine. From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:07:38 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: MZ, Thank you for the wink across cyber land, a wink back at ya! Â This link says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPUE-tne5U Thats a post of 32 pages for those of us who reade this on the net ! Don't you know how to snip ? snip
Re: [FairfieldLife] If you were a lurker...
On 07/21/2011 02:42 AM, turquoiseb wrote: ...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? It would be an honest sampling (or boring). It would show that TM is no panacea. But neither is any other meditation technique. That's why I thought if Stu knows Mike White he might want to steer him to FFL for some funny material for his HBO series. TM is overpriced anyway and probably somewhat dubious in it's safety (I checked too many psychotics). There's cheaper, safer and more effective techniques out there. The only real thing TM had going for it in the early 70s (other than price) was it was more of an organization than the other more hippie run ones. One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. So someone is trying to fend off the David Wants to Fly? I was wondering why it isn't on Netflix yet. Honestly I ignore most of the threads here since they are boring. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. What you focus on you become is not always true and taken WAY out of context. It's about meditation and focusing on the transcendent (regardless of what technique you use). If you focus on work the rest of the day you don't become the work. Pure consciousness trumps any relative world concerns. But that doesn't mean that folks here focusing on a global crisis are becoming it. No, they are able to examine at arm's length and show what is actually wrong with the situation with little stress.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:06 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon There are some people, including Srila Prabhupada, who think that the moon landing was a hoax. FWIW, Prabhupada thought that the Moon was further away than the Sun. He also thought that there are spiritual beings and water on the Moon. As such, in vedic literature, the Moon is the significator of soma and abundance here on Earth. Hmmm. I should have asked Radanath Swami about that. Maharishi once mentioned something about the Pitṛs (spirits of departed ancestors), living on the moon. I asked some skeptical question, mentioning how inhospitable the moon is, and he looked at me like I was an idiot (just throwing ya’ a line, Nabby). I guess he was referring to subtle beings. But why would they want to live there? Maybe on the subtle level, the moon is a great place to live. All the green cheese you can eat and stuff.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
This doesn't quite get it, especially, Rick, since you haven't even seen the film. David's young and can definitely be manipulative, but his film is really a fairly good documentation of his experience, as it unfolded, of David Lynch, TM, Maharishi and the TMO. It's also a lot about him and his girlfriend. To me, it comes off as pretty sincere. But I think the act of filming it all and doing the research to make the film accelerated his disillusionment, one might say, understandably. Can you imagine starting TM not so long ago and then doing all the research you can to find out everything you can about everything TM related? I don't think he set out to do a hatchet job, nor do I really feel the film is a hatchet job. But, quite possibly, by the time he spoke with you and me, his disillusionment was well under way and he was more in the negative mode than the positive. On Jul 20, 2011, at 10:57 PM, Rick Archer wrote: David, who made the film, definitely had an agenda. He interviewed me by phone. I emphasized repeatedly that he should tell the whole story, and that an honest telling would contain more positive than negative. But it appears that he just wanted to do a hatchet job. So he interviewed Mark for two hours, and chose something Mark said during those two hours that sounds negative. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tedadams108 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals Rick, You're correct, I just didn't want to go on memory regarding any particular thing Mark said. I watched the film late at night, it's in german, and I was not focused only on what Mark said. If I knew this issue regarding the sandals was going to come up today I would have paid more attention. Fortunately in his response, Mark does talk about some of the things he said, albeit with a different slant than what comes out in the film. If you read Mark's post it's clear that unlike your impression that Mark never said anything bad about Maharishi, that in the film several negative things are said. Granted Mark's point about a paradox requires some positive points be made. Anyone who views the film will not debate how Maharishi was portrayed by Mark. There seems to be a tendency for people on here to make complicated and pick apart something that was intended to be simple. In this case, simply. 1. Mark said very negative things about Maharishi. 2. Mark claims that the sandals worn by Maharishi have a magical quality. (IMO to enhance their marketability.) 3. Paradox aside, appeared contradictory. To speak ill of someone then to turn around and try to profit from the man's sandals is unsettling at best. Money often causes one to compromise principles. I think that may be the case here. If the shoe (sandal) fits... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tedadams108 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:11 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals I do have compassion for Mark or anyone in financial difficulties. I have been observing the comments on Fairfield Life for many years but until today was not inspired to post one of my own. For some reason it was hard for me to resist pointing out the hypocrisy since I had just seen the film. Perhaps I was a little colorful with my words, but they pale in comparison to the words used in the interview. Obviously there are people on here that fit either into the pro-TM camp or the anti-TM camp. I apparently hit a nerve. I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out the facts and people can spin them the way they want. Interestingly, those who have an issue with my post are not addressing it's main point, rather my mention of being compassionate or acknowledging that many have enjoyed financial success and have attributed it to their TM practice. The main point is not debatable. The main reason it's not debatable is that you don't trust your memory well enough to tell us what Mark said, so we can't very well debate something we know nothing about. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3776 - Release Date: 07/20/11
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark Landau Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:37 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals This doesn't quite get it, especially, Rick, since you haven't even seen the film. David's young and can definitely be manipulative, but his film is really a fairly good documentation of his experience, as it unfolded, of David Lynch, TM, Maharishi and the TMO. It's also a lot about him and his girlfriend. To me, it comes off as pretty sincere. But I think the act of filming it all and doing the research to make the film accelerated his disillusionment, one might say, understandably. Can you imagine starting TM not so long ago and then doing all the research you can to find out everything you can about everything TM related? I don't think he set out to do a hatchet job, nor do I really feel the film is a hatchet job. But, quite possibly, by the time he spoke with you and me, his disillusionment was well under way and he was more in the negative mode than the positive. I wish the darned thing would come out in the US so we could all have a better idea of what we're talking about. The MUM student government actually showed it on campus.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Why should it be? Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt curtisdeltablues: Great minds discuss whatever interests them... Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. LoL! Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt Subject: Small Minds (was Re: Tiger!) Author: TurquoiseB Date: December 1, 2009 4:56 am Groups: Yahoo! FairfieldLife http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/235684 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/235684
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I must be missing something - this budget breakdown is likely not put out by right wing fringe groups if it is actually posted on whitehouse.gov. It also doesn't reflect what will or will not be approved as it is just a beginning cut that we are watching get hashed out. It does provide a useful graphic to help us understand where our monies are going and I'm glad it is posted. Yes, the budget proportions reflect the reality that most of our current government expenditure is SS, Medicare and Medicaid and Defense...this is a known fact and not our president's fault - if the intent is to lay blame. It is a good reminder that reform is needed, if we, the citizens, don't like the proportions shown. SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. IMHO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
Of course, the question arises, who is toeing the party line who actually posts to this forum? THis raises the question: just what is the party line? L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That was me Barry. You are one to talk, with the vile and disgusting words you use against others.I called you and Vaj donkeys because I was trying to be polite and not call you jackasses, jackass. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: ...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: Wow, are we one dimensional? I believe it's the sign of a developed being that he or she can easily hold all the paradoxes. Not only can I have it both ways, but I must have it both ways and, beyond that, have it all ways that were, are or ever will be, if I am to do any justice to truth and reality. That's a lot of ways. I also believe that, ultimately, we must go beyond all the paradoxes and polarities, including the polarity of good and bad (and that, of course, doesn't mean that we rush out to do all the bad things we possibly can ASAP). The truth of the matter, if anyone cares, is that, like Judith Bourke, who I find to be a wonderful, honest person, I was in love with him (no, prurient ones, not that way, though there are things I could say about that, too) and the notion and seeming experience that TM could transform the world for the better. Why else would I work seven days a week for the movement for nearly five years and pay significantly to do so? Are we not all some blend of the three gunas? Aren't there glorious and dark things about all of us? M was no different. One of the most glorious things about him was his energy. I lived and basked in it pretty much straight for the seven months I was skin boy and for a lot of the five years I was with him. I went through withdrawal for two years when I lost it. That's my voice in the background of DWTF when David cut to the archival footage of M entering the hall with Jerry carrying the skin saying something like, It was like divine air came down from heaven and I got addicted to it. Is that so very negative? In one other sentence I said something like, Remember how I said he could get into you and help you sleep? He could also get into you and completely pulverize you. Is that both negative and positive? Of course, one-dimensional believers would say having M pulverize you would be the greatest blessing. It could only be all positive. But what if he did it because he was pissed, out of sorts or sexually frustrated? Yes, IME, he definitely got sexually frustrated. In my total reworking of his own words, the only man in all of recored history that anyone knew about who lived beyond the libido was Sukadeva. I also said in the movie, It took me a while to put the paradox together. How could he be wonderful and awful at the same time? Well, that's just how it was. He was wonderful and awful at the same time. David filmed me for over two hours and he used the several minutes that suited his purpose in segueing from the more positive part of the film to the more negative. So I feel no conflict or contradiction in saying In my experience, they still carry a lot of his energy, as if the atoms and molecules have been entrained in it. And, of course, in India, they would be holy objects to be revered. I have kept them very well protected and have handled them very little over the decades. and M abused women, devastated people right and left and was more concerned with money than with treating people decently. They're all simply true. And so were all the other totally glorious aspects of that intense, complex man. Was anyone else in the movie theater that night in Fiuggi, or wherever it was, when M's darshan got so strong that it made all the little, hanging crystals dance extravagantly and tinkle together as if there were a small tornado blowing through the hall? And probably only I saw this, but when M first got to Murren, the three mountain devas came to greet him. IME, which of course many of you would completely howl at, they had been waiting for someone for centuries and thought, because of his light, that it might be M. M went completely silent and looked up at them for several moments while they communed. He wasn't who they were waiting for, they left and the lecture went on. And you should have seen the angel stations that congregated in the intersections of the pathways between the puja tables in the halls where M made teachers. That's why he didn't like people walking around then. I had to bust right through one of them to get to him to tell him something urgent while he was giving out the mantras. The five or six angels in that one station took off in all directions like they had been stung. (There, three little stories...) I was made an initiator in Fiuggi in May of 1972. The energy in the puja table area in front of MMY was absolutely incredible, astounding, golden, powerful. I was nervous as I began the puja, but soon got so lost in the infinite that I could barely zero back in to focus on what MMY was telling me. Probably the most powerful experience of
[FairfieldLife] Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
The story of American history is that of conservative ideas and prejudices falling away as our society grows more progressive and thus more true to our nation's founding ideals. Conservatives supported slavery, conservatives opposed women's suffrage, conservatives supported Jim Crow, conservatives opposed the 40-hour work week and the abolishment of child labor, and conservatives supported McCarthyism. In short, all the major advancements of freedom and justice in our history were pushed by liberals and opposed by conservatives, no matter the party they inhabited at the time. Conservatism is Bill Bennett lecturing you about self-denial, then rushing off to feed his slot habit at the casino. It's James Dobson telling you that children need regular beatings to stay in line. It's a superannuated nun rapping you on the knuckles so you won't think about your dirty parts. It's Jerry Falwell watching Teletubbies frame by frame to see if Tinky Winky is trying to turn him gay. Conservatism is everyone you never wanted to grow up to be. ~~ Paul Waldman http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/07/12/its_the_conservatism_stupid.php
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Ah, yes, first the easy way out. Thank you, Ravi, for your well wishes on the sandals, but let's go into epistemology. And, of course, Robin does so eloquently in a subsequent response, which beautifully exemplifies the not so easy way out and will not be as easy for me to reply to. It's all Mark. None of it could be MMY. Mark must be an imbecile not to see this. (Should I even reply to this email? Let's see if it might be fruitful...) In order to make it fruitful, I guess I have to bring up spiritual maturity again, previously alluded to as developed being. I believe in discernment. I believe that, with true, sincere discernment, one can more and more approach an objective appreciation of the truth. And I know, quite directly, that using real discernment to winnow judgement and projection from reality ain't easy. I also believe in what Robin called (will call) meta-psychological effect, the profound resonance and repercussions that can ensue when our highly developed inner truth meter, if we have the spiritual maturity to have developed one, encounters a deeper truth than we have yet allowed ourselves to assimilate. So, just as an example, if I say M slept with women and got sexually frustrated when he couldn't get any, what kind of statement is this? Is it purely my projection? Is it a moral judgement? Is it objective? Is it subjective? Is it true? Is it false? Is it cavil? Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Only discernment can cut through it all if one really wants the truth. Of course it's not necessary to really want the truth. I believe that most people don't. Why did so many skin boys get disillusioned? Because, as Robin says, the images that forced themselves upon us forced us to revise our estimation of the man. Bevan never really became skin boy. He always wanted to, but was spared that. Most of the skin boys got close enough to the man to see his underbelly. And it wasn't as pretty as we all thought it was. So, yes, my statement above is either true or false. I leave that for each to decide for yourselves. Is it purely my projection? I, obviously, don't believe so. For me, there is such overwhelming evidence, that, as I said, I believe it simply to be true. Is it moral judgement? This gets trickier. Can I make the above statement with no moral judgement? I believe that would be the sign of true spiritual maturity. Have I attained that? Let's say I'm still working on it. Is it subjective, objective? For me, both. Is it cavil? I would say that depends on one's real motivation, and who can know another's? I came to the decision, long ago, that, in the case of MMY, it really would be liberating for many people to know God's simple truth, the actual reality of what occurred. Cavil would come from hurt, smallness, venality, self-loathing, etc., etc., etc. Can I say that I have eliminated all elements of cavil from everything I say about him? Let's say that's something else I'm still working on. Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Perhaps, I had an experience with M about just that at the San Diego Zoo. Maybe I'll get to recount that sometime. But, for me, the truth became more important than my next life. If that's what's meant to be, so be it. We all must take the consequences of everything we do, no? So, enough of this for now and the future, if it's fruitful for one person, it's worth it. If not, forgive my indulgence. m On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:32 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic spiritual principles. Reveling in paradoxes *doesn't * mean moral judgement of others. Reveling in paradoxes is a highly internal experience, the paradoxes of love and hate and all the other conflicting emotions seen as a pure witness. Compare Mark's moral judgement of Judith as wonderful, honest person and then M as conflicting, bewildering array of emotions. With my limited Unity experiences I just can't see how I will ever be sexually frustrated, I was before not anymore. Sure I would love to have a partner, to have sex but I have been single since last year and I am not old, like the old farts here on FFL, there are sexual thoughts similar to other thoughts but there's no pain, suffering, frustration. Similarly I can't see a man like M not acting decently with people for money. Mark can't seem to realize that the conflicting, bewildering emotions were all his. The positive energy was *his*, the negative energy was *his* as well. A Satguru is a pure mirror and just reflects, reflects so completely, thoroughly enough for us
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
Hmwonder why it is always in the discussion - is the imbalance that large and is that what was shown in the graphic? Lots of flack crossing the internet now on the Gang of Six and the budget cuts to SSI that are in that deal --- On Thu, 7/21/11, sparaig lengli...@cox.net wrote: From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 10:00 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I must be missing something - this budget breakdown is likely not put out by right wing fringe groups if it is actually posted on whitehouse.gov. It also doesn't reflect what will or will not be approved as it is just a beginning cut that we are watching get hashed out. It does provide a useful graphic to help us understand where our monies are going and I'm glad it is posted. Yes, the budget proportions reflect the reality that most of our current government expenditure is SS, Medicare and Medicaid and Defense...this is a known fact and not our president's fault - if the intent is to lay blame. It is a good reminder that reform is needed, if we, the citizens, don't like the proportions shown. SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. IMHO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: So, enough of this for now and the future, if it's fruitful for one person, it's worth it. If not, forgive my indulgence. Fruitful, fruitful! You continue to be a huge addition to the content here Mark. Your exchange with Robin on your experiences with Maharishi were fascinating. I was surprised to learn that Bevan wasn't a skin boy. I thought that was one of his claims to fame when he was first with Maharishi in India. The mega intense world at Maharishi's door is so worthy of a book, many books for each person who wants to tell this story. One of the most fascinating books I have read was by Mao's personal physician. You get an insight into his character you get nowhere else. Same for you guys in the hot seat carrying the hot seat. Any details you sprinkle here will fall on many delighted ears. I enjoy your divine experiences as much as any insights into the more human side of Maharishi. Ah, yes, first the easy way out. Thank you, Ravi, for your well wishes on the sandals, but let's go into epistemology. And, of course, Robin does so eloquently in a subsequent response, which beautifully exemplifies the not so easy way out and will not be as easy for me to reply to. It's all Mark. None of it could be MMY. Mark must be an imbecile not to see this. (Should I even reply to this email? Let's see if it might be fruitful...) In order to make it fruitful, I guess I have to bring up spiritual maturity again, previously alluded to as developed being. I believe in discernment. I believe that, with true, sincere discernment, one can more and more approach an objective appreciation of the truth. And I know, quite directly, that using real discernment to winnow judgement and projection from reality ain't easy. I also believe in what Robin called (will call) meta-psychological effect, the profound resonance and repercussions that can ensue when our highly developed inner truth meter, if we have the spiritual maturity to have developed one, encounters a deeper truth than we have yet allowed ourselves to assimilate. So, just as an example, if I say M slept with women and got sexually frustrated when he couldn't get any, what kind of statement is this? Is it purely my projection? Is it a moral judgement? Is it objective? Is it subjective? Is it true? Is it false? Is it cavil? Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Only discernment can cut through it all if one really wants the truth. Of course it's not necessary to really want the truth. I believe that most people don't. Why did so many skin boys get disillusioned? Because, as Robin says, the images that forced themselves upon us forced us to revise our estimation of the man. Bevan never really became skin boy. He always wanted to, but was spared that. Most of the skin boys got close enough to the man to see his underbelly. And it wasn't as pretty as we all thought it was. So, yes, my statement above is either true or false. I leave that for each to decide for yourselves. Is it purely my projection? I, obviously, don't believe so. For me, there is such overwhelming evidence, that, as I said, I believe it simply to be true. Is it moral judgement? This gets trickier. Can I make the above statement with no moral judgement? I believe that would be the sign of true spiritual maturity. Have I attained that? Let's say I'm still working on it. Is it subjective, objective? For me, both. Is it cavil? I would say that depends on one's real motivation, and who can know another's? I came to the decision, long ago, that, in the case of MMY, it really would be liberating for many people to know God's simple truth, the actual reality of what occurred. Cavil would come from hurt, smallness, venality, self-loathing, etc., etc., etc. Can I say that I have eliminated all elements of cavil from everything I say about him? Let's say that's something else I'm still working on. Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Perhaps, I had an experience with M about just that at the San Diego Zoo. Maybe I'll get to recount that sometime. But, for me, the truth became more important than my next life. If that's what's meant to be, so be it. We all must take the consequences of everything we do, no? So, enough of this for now and the future, if it's fruitful for one person, it's worth it. If not, forgive my indulgence. m On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:32 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals TRUTH
For me, the only truth that's relevant is my own experience. Having never met Maharishi, nor had any particular desire to one way or the other, the techniques he brought out, at least in my life, are phenomenal. That's all that matters to me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: Ah, yes, first the easy way out. Thank you, Ravi, for your well wishes on the sandals, but let's go into epistemology. And, of course, Robin does so eloquently in a subsequent response, which beautifully exemplifies the not so easy way out and will not be as easy for me to reply to. It's all Mark. None of it could be MMY. Mark must be an imbecile not to see this. (Should I even reply to this email? Let's see if it might be fruitful...) In order to make it fruitful, I guess I have to bring up spiritual maturity again, previously alluded to as developed being. I believe in discernment. I believe that, with true, sincere discernment, one can more and more approach an objective appreciation of the truth. And I know, quite directly, that using real discernment to winnow judgement and projection from reality ain't easy. I also believe in what Robin called (will call) meta-psychological effect, the profound resonance and repercussions that can ensue when our highly developed inner truth meter, if we have the spiritual maturity to have developed one, encounters a deeper truth than we have yet allowed ourselves to assimilate. So, just as an example, if I say M slept with women and got sexually frustrated when he couldn't get any, what kind of statement is this? Is it purely my projection? Is it a moral judgement? Is it objective? Is it subjective? Is it true? Is it false? Is it cavil? Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Only discernment can cut through it all if one really wants the truth. Of course it's not necessary to really want the truth. I believe that most people don't. Why did so many skin boys get disillusioned? Because, as Robin says, the images that forced themselves upon us forced us to revise our estimation of the man. Bevan never really became skin boy. He always wanted to, but was spared that. Most of the skin boys got close enough to the man to see his underbelly. And it wasn't as pretty as we all thought it was. So, yes, my statement above is either true or false. I leave that for each to decide for yourselves. Is it purely my projection? I, obviously, don't believe so. For me, there is such overwhelming evidence, that, as I said, I believe it simply to be true. Is it moral judgement? This gets trickier. Can I make the above statement with no moral judgement? I believe that would be the sign of true spiritual maturity. Have I attained that? Let's say I'm still working on it. Is it subjective, objective? For me, both. Is it cavil? I would say that depends on one's real motivation, and who can know another's? I came to the decision, long ago, that, in the case of MMY, it really would be liberating for many people to know God's simple truth, the actual reality of what occurred. Cavil would come from hurt, smallness, venality, self-loathing, etc., etc., etc. Can I say that I have eliminated all elements of cavil from everything I say about him? Let's say that's something else I'm still working on. Will I be reborn a donkey for saying it? Perhaps, I had an experience with M about just that at the San Diego Zoo. Maybe I'll get to recount that sometime. But, for me, the truth became more important than my next life. If that's what's meant to be, so be it. We all must take the consequences of everything we do, no? So, enough of this for now and the future, if it's fruitful for one person, it's worth it. If not, forgive my indulgence. m On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:32 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: As much as I would love to see Mark getting the max $ for M's sandals, I would certainly have to agree with Ted. Mark seems pretty one-dimensional. With my limited experiences I can just can't comprehend the things Mark says about M unless he was acting out against M when his ego was hurt or he is just so plain stupid that he doesn't understand basic spiritual principles. Reveling in paradoxes *doesn't * mean moral judgement of others. Reveling in paradoxes is a highly internal experience, the paradoxes of love and hate and all the other conflicting emotions seen as a pure witness. Compare Mark's moral judgement of Judith as wonderful, honest person and then M as conflicting, bewildering array of emotions. With my limited Unity experiences I just can't see how I will ever be sexually frustrated, I was before not anymore. Sure I would love to have a partner, to have sex but I have been single since last year and I am not old, like the old farts here on FFL, there are sexual thoughts similar to other
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:43 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The mega intense world at Maharishi's door is so worthy of a book, many books for each person who wants to tell this story. One of the most fascinating books I have read was by Mao's personal physician. You get an insight into his character you get nowhere else. Same for you guys in the hot seat carrying the hot seat. Any details you sprinkle here will fall on many delighted ears. I enjoy your divine experiences as much as any insights into the more human side of Maharishi. All the more reason to try to get an interview with Mahapatra who was M's personal physician and witness to all sorts of controversial (some might even say evil) behavior.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
On 07/21/2011 10:00 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evansdmevans365@... wrote: I must be missing something - this budget breakdown is likely not put out by right wing fringe groups if it is actually posted on whitehouse.gov. It also doesn't reflect what will or will not be approved as it is just a beginning cut that we are watching get hashed out. It does provide a useful graphic to help us understand where our monies are going and I'm glad it is posted. Yes, the budget proportions reflect the reality that most of our current government expenditure is SS, Medicare and Medicaid and Defense...this is a known fact and not our president's fault - if the intent is to lay blame. It is a good reminder that reform is needed, if we, the citizens, don't like the proportions shown. SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. IMHO. Senator Bernie Sanders says SS is funded until 2043 and there is no crisis. The criminal Republicans are manufacturing it so Wall Street can gamble with retirees money. This is a big crime going on right before our eyes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
If that Gang of Six goes through Mark Landau won't be the only one here in a fix. In fact he already has plenty of company whether he knows it or not. I predict that American will be burned to the ground if it passes. Invest in torches, pitchforks, rope, tar and feathers. On 07/21/2011 11:22 AM, Denise Evans wrote: Hmwonder why it is always in the discussion - is the imbalance that large and is that what was shown in the graphic? Lots of flack crossing the internet now on the Gang of Six and the budget cuts to SSI that are in that deal --- On Thu, 7/21/11, sparaiglengli...@cox.net wrote: From: sparaiglengli...@cox.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain) To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 21, 2011, 10:00 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evansdmevans365@... wrote: I must be missing something - this budget breakdown is likely not put out by right wing fringe groups if it is actually posted on whitehouse.gov. It also doesn't reflect what will or will not be approved as it is just a beginning cut that we are watching get hashed out. It does provide a useful graphic to help us understand where our monies are going and I'm glad it is posted. Yes, the budget proportions reflect the reality that most of our current government expenditure is SS, Medicare and Medicaid and Defense...this is a known fact and not our president's fault - if the intent is to lay blame. It is a good reminder that reform is needed, if we, the citizens, don't like the proportions shown. SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. IMHO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@... wrote: Nabster, I think I speak for both MZ and myself when I say we're flattered you'd read 32 pages of our stuff, from the sound of it, twice. If you liked it wait till you see my FFL script. Until then: I'm Walking on Sunshine. Read it ? Dream on ! From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:07:38 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price bobpriced@ wrote: MZ, Thank you for the wink across cyber land, a wink back at ya! àThis link says it all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPUE-tne5U Thats a post of 32 pages for those of us who reade this on the net ! Don't you know how to snip ? snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
Bhairitu: I predict that American will be burned to the ground if it passes... The president is praising their plan! Something tells me you don't know what you are talking about. You don't even make any sense! Invest in torches, pitchforks, rope, tar and feathers. All your economic and political solutions seem to favor violence. So, you're opposed to reducing the federal deficit; opposed to capping domestic spending; opposed to rearranging some entitlement programs; and opposed to stabilizing the nation's publicly held debt. And, you're opposed to a budget compromise? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. Bhairitu: Senator Bernie Sanders says SS is funded until 2043 and there is no crisis... For young, single workers all Social Security promises (a promise it can't even afford to keep) is about a 1.5 percent real rate of return. What it can afford to pay is more like half a percent, which is more like passbook interest than a real investment return. Polls consistently show that strong majorities of younger workers don't expect to ever collect any Social Security benefits... http://tinyurl.com/3vlv85m
[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. Being poor, you fail to understand this, so you're unhappy. You could go out and get a job and make some money if you wanted to.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon
He didn't seem to recognize that these descriptions were an amalgam of two different orders of perception. One order was coarse physical materiality and the other was more subtle, non-physical matter. We don't possess the conceptual constructes anymore to fit it all together. Originally, those with a slightly more subtle perception could directly perceive dvipa-s and the various sagara-s surrounding them that constituted the spaces which structured the subtle solar system (i.e. the multilayered brahmanda.) The old yogis combined the two levels of perception into a single 3D map although neither level is actually perceptable from within the other. \ .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: There are some people, including Srila Prabhupada, who think that the moon landing was a hoax. FWIW, Prabhupada thought that the Moon was further away than the Sun. He also thought that there are spiritual beings and water on the Moon. As such, in vedic literature, the Moon is the significator of soma and abundance here on Earth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote I was made an initiator in Fiuggi in May of 1972. The energy in the puja table area in front of MMY was absolutely incredible, astounding, golden, powerful. I was nervous as I began the puja, but soon got so lost in the infinite that I could barely zero back in to focus on what MMY was telling me. Probably the most powerful experience of energy in my life. Yep. I was there also and had the same experience. This must be what Brahmaloka is like. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mark Landau m@... wrote: Wow, are we one dimensional? I believe it's the sign of a developed being that he or she can easily hold all the paradoxes. Not only can I have it both ways, but I must have it both ways and, beyond that, have it all ways that were, are or ever will be, if I am to do any justice to truth and reality. That's a lot of ways. I also believe that, ultimately, we must go beyond all the paradoxes and polarities, including the polarity of good and bad (and that, of course, doesn't mean that we rush out to do all the bad things we possibly can ASAP). The truth of the matter, if anyone cares, is that, like Judith Bourke, who I find to be a wonderful, honest person, I was in love with him (no, prurient ones, not that way, though there are things I could say about that, too) and the notion and seeming experience that TM could transform the world for the better. Why else would I work seven days a week for the movement for nearly five years and pay significantly to do so? Are we not all some blend of the three gunas? Aren't there glorious and dark things about all of us? M was no different. One of the most glorious things about him was his energy. I lived and basked in it pretty much straight for the seven months I was skin boy and for a lot of the five years I was with him. I went through withdrawal for two years when I lost it. That's my voice in the background of DWTF when David cut to the archival footage of M entering the hall with Jerry carrying the skin saying something like, It was like divine air came down from heaven and I got addicted to it. Is that so very negative? In one other sentence I said something like, Remember how I said he could get into you and help you sleep? He could also get into you and completely pulverize you. Is that both negative and positive? Of course, one-dimensional believers would say having M pulverize you would be the greatest blessing. It could only be all positive. But what if he did it because he was pissed, out of sorts or sexually frustrated? Yes, IME, he definitely got sexually frustrated. In my total reworking of his own words, the only man in all of recored history that anyone knew about who lived beyond the libido was Sukadeva. I also said in the movie, It took me a while to put the paradox together. How could he be wonderful and awful at the same time? Well, that's just how it was. He was wonderful and awful at the same time. David filmed me for over two hours and he used the several minutes that suited his purpose in segueing from the more positive part of the film to the more negative. So I feel no conflict or contradiction in saying In my experience, they still carry a lot of his energy, as if the atoms and molecules have been entrained in it. And, of course, in India, they would be holy objects to be revered. I have kept them very well protected and have handled them very little over the decades. and M abused women, devastated people right and left and was more concerned with money than with treating people decently. They're all simply true. And so were all the other totally glorious aspects of that intense, complex man. Was anyone else in the movie theater that night in Fiuggi, or wherever it was, when M's darshan got so strong that it made all the little, hanging crystals dance extravagantly and tinkle together as if there were a small tornado blowing through the hall? And probably only I saw this, but when M first got to Murren, the three mountain devas came to greet him. IME, which of course many of you would completely howl at, they had been waiting for someone for centuries and thought, because of his light, that it might be M. M went completely silent and looked up at them for several moments while they communed. He wasn't who they were waiting for, they left and the lecture went on. And you should have seen the angel stations that congregated in the intersections of the pathways between the puja tables in the halls where M made teachers. That's why he didn't like people walking around then. I had to bust right through one of them to get to him to tell him something urgent while he was giving out the mantras. The five or six angels in that one station took off in all directions like
[FairfieldLife] Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
Rather recent and maybe someone linked to it but I don't recall seeing such a link: http://blog.onesmallseed.tv/index.php/whats-your-story-david-sieveking/ I'd be curious why a US edition of the DVD (or BD) hasn't been issued?
[FairfieldLife] 'A Spade is a spade'...Let's call it...that.
Let's call it like it is...since the assasination of JFK, certain forces have been in power in the United States... These forces create a lot of 'Dirty Money'... What I mean by 'dirty money' is money gotten by the 'Military Industrial Complex, the Drug Business and Big Pharma, the Industrial Prison Complex, the Medicine for Profit Industry, the Bankers who look the other way, the Oil Industry and so on... Maharishi used to comment on the 'money vibe' and how the money was gotten...dirty money continues to buy dirty things, or things which are anti-life, depleted of Shakti and Prana/// So, it is these forces which goven the money supply and the puppets who guard the money supply, like hawks, the republicans... They hide themselves in closets of puritanicalism, and Jesus when they are against everything which Jesus ever taught... Their [power] is diminishing now, as the facade is unmasked day by day,, with the continued intensification of 'Being' in the collective consciousness, along with the internet, is providing a 'New Space' for creating a different kind of system, which will not be based on fear and scarcity... J.G.D.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bhairitu Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Video: David Wants to Fly director interview Rather recent and maybe someone linked to it but I don't recall seeing such a link: http://blog.onesmallseed.tv/index.php/whats-your-story-david-sieveking/ I'd be curious why a US edition of the DVD (or BD) hasn't been issued? April 13 Hi Rick, I still hope for an American DVD deal and I will provide you a DVD when we got it made - so far people from the US just order the German DVD I guess - it has an English film version on it and is equipped with English subtitles where necessary: http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U TF8 http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1?ie= U%0ATF8s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell All the best, David
[FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
Amazon USA has 2 copies available: http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1 David Wants to Fly ( David quiere volar ) [ NON-USA FORMAT, PAL, Reg.0 Import - Germany ] http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/product-reviews\ /B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_img?ie=UTF8showViewpoints=1 (2 customer reviews http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/product-reviews\ /B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8showViewpoints=1 ) DVD http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1 1 new http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF\ 8qid=1311291081sr=8-1condition=new from $35.99 1 used http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF\ 8qid=1311291081sr=8-1condition=used from $35.99 Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8tag=mozilla-20index=blendedlink_code=q\ sfield-keywords=David%20Wants%20to%20Flysourceid=Mozilla-search --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bhairitu Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Video: David Wants to Fly director interview Rather recent and maybe someone linked to it but I don't recall seeing such a link: http://blog.onesmallseed.tv/index.php/whats-your-story-david-sieveking/ I'd be curious why a US edition of the DVD (or BD) hasn't been issued? April 13 Hi Rick, I still hope for an American DVD deal and I will provide you a DVD when we got it made - so far people from the US just order the German DVD I guess - it has an English film version on it and is equipped with English subtitles where necessary: http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1?\ ie=U TF8 http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1\ ?ie= U%0ATF8s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell All the best, David
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Jul 16 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat Jul 23 00:00:00 2011 702 messages as of (UTC) Thu Jul 21 23:35:08 2011 50 authfriend jst...@panix.com 45 Mark Landau m...@sky5.com 44 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 37 whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com 37 richardjwilliamstexas willy...@yahoo.com 37 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 37 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 32 obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com 30 Bob Price bobpri...@yahoo.com 27 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 26 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 22 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 22 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 20 danfriedman2002 danfriedman2...@yahoo.com 19 seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 19 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 17 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 16 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 14 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 14 Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net 13 sparaig lengli...@cox.net 12 Yifu yifux...@yahoo.com 11 Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com 10 johnt johnlasher20002...@yahoo.com 10 John jr_...@yahoo.com 10 Denise Evans dmevans...@yahoo.com 7 tedadams108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 6 wgm4u wg...@yahoo.com 6 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 5 wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com 5 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 5 maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com 4 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com 4 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com 4 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 4 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com 3 metoostill metoost...@yahoo.com 3 PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk 3 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 Joe geezerfr...@yahoo.com 2 Bill Coop williamgc...@gmail.com 1 stevelf ysoy1...@yahoo.com 1 shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca 1 merlin vedamer...@yahoo.de 1 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com 1 jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 1 William Parkinson ameradi...@yahoo.com 1 RoryGoff roryg...@hotmail.com 1 Dick Mays dickm...@lisco.com Posters: 49 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
You would need a region free player for that. Probably best to wait for the region 1 version and it'll be $20 at Frys. ;-) On 07/21/2011 04:35 PM, do.rflex wrote: Amazon USA has 2 copies available: http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1David Wants to Fly ( David quiere volar ) [ NON-USA FORMAT, PAL, Reg.0 Import - Germany ] http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/product-reviews\ /B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_img?ie=UTF8showViewpoints=1 (2 customer reviews http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/product-reviews\ /B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8showViewpoints=1 ) DVD http://www.amazon.com/David-Wants-quiere-NON-USA-FORMAT/dp/B004PRT15E/r\ ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1311291081sr=8-1 1 new http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF\ 8qid=1311291081sr=8-1condition=new from $35.99 1 used http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004PRT15E/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF\ 8qid=1311291081sr=8-1condition=used from $35.99 Here's the link: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8tag=mozilla-20index=blendedlink_code=q\ sfield-keywords=David%20Wants%20to%20Flysourceid=Mozilla-search --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archerrick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bhairitu Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 5:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Video: David Wants to Fly director interview Rather recent and maybe someone linked to it but I don't recall seeing such a link: http://blog.onesmallseed.tv/index.php/whats-your-story-david-sieveking/ I'd be curious why a US edition of the DVD (or BD) hasn't been issued? April 13 Hi Rick, I still hope for an American DVD deal and I will provide you a DVD when we got it made - so far people from the US just order the German DVD I guess - it has an English film version on it and is equipped with English subtitles where necessary: http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1?\ ie=U TF8 http://www.amazon.de/David-wants-fly-Sieveking/dp/B004265K7G/ref=sr_1_1\ ?ie= U%0ATF8s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell s=dvdqid=1287348585sr=8-1-spell All the best, David
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
Line through air is the party line. Barry prefers line etched in stone, and that is why he has become a but head, saying, But...but...but... regarding anything positive about TMO or Maharishi. Can't let it go after 40 plus years. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Of course, the question arises, who is toeing the party line who actually posts to this forum? THis raises the question: just what is the party line? L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That was me Barry. You are one to talk, with the vile and disgusting words you use against others.I called you and Vaj donkeys because I was trying to be polite and not call you jackasses, jackass. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: ...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Vaj's doctor: This is the last time I'm removing your head from up there, Vaj. Besides, you are causing curvature of your spine and severe neck strain by doing this so often. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:43 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The mega intense world at Maharishi's door is so worthy of a book, many books for each person who wants to tell this story. One of the most fascinating books I have read was by Mao's personal physician. You get an insight into his character you get nowhere else. Same for you guys in the hot seat carrying the hot seat. Any details you sprinkle here will fall on many delighted ears. I enjoy your divine experiences as much as any insights into the more human side of Maharishi. All the more reason to try to get an interview with Mahapatra who was M's personal physician and witness to all sorts of controversial (some might even say evil) behavior.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
Bhairitu: You would need a region free player for that. Got this nice little unit about six months ago and I liked it so much that I bought one for my daughter out in Santa rosa. Pioneer DV-220V-K 1080p Region Free DVD Player w/HDMI USB Amazon $68 http://tinyurl.com/3m5f444 Probably best to wait for the region 1 version and it'll be $20 at Frys. ;-) Maybe so, but I wouldn't give you .10 cents for a copy. The last time I bought anything that was recommended by Joe cost me $38 for a crummy paperback with lousy pictures in it. I threw it the trash heap! Why are you TMO types always trying to sell us something, or trying to make a dime off of the dead MMY? It's just outrageous!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
do.rflex: Amazon USA has 2 copies available... Why don't you buy one of the German discs and tell us what it's all about, John? LoL!!! 'David Wants to Fly' David Sieveking and Judith Bourque Amazon $35.99 http://tinyurl.com/44swgfm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
LOL..I really enjoy your pithy humor. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Vaj's doctor: This is the last time I'm removing your head from up there, Vaj. Besides, you are causing curvature of your spine and severe neck strain by doing this so often. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 21, 2011, at 2:43 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The mega intense world at Maharishi's door is so worthy of a book, many books for each person who wants to tell this story. One of the most fascinating books I have read was by Mao's personal physician. You get an insight into his character you get nowhere else. Same for you guys in the hot seat carrying the hot seat. Any details you sprinkle here will fall on many delighted ears. I enjoy your divine experiences as much as any insights into the more human side of Maharishi. All the more reason to try to get an interview with Mahapatra who was M's personal physician and witness to all sorts of controversial (some might even say evil) behavior.
[FairfieldLife] Re: If you were a lurker...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Line through air is the party line. Barry prefers line etched in stone, and that is why he has become a but head, saying, But...but...but... regarding anything positive about TMO or Maharishi. Can't let it go after 40 plus years. Yeah I have also heard that he's used this stone to make a beautiful statue, carries it with him and worships it daily. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Of course, the question arises, who is toeing the party line who actually posts to this forum? THis raises the question: just what is the party line? L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That was me Barry. You are one to talk, with the vile and disgusting words you use against others.I called you and Vaj donkeys because I was trying to be polite and not call you jackasses, jackass. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: ...who had never practiced TM, and was here checking out the scene and trying to figure out whether there was any benefit for you in learning it, would you be favorably impressed by the words and actions of those who act as self-appointed TM defenders or TM supporters here? One, a newbie, seems to be dedicated to creating in other people the least favorable opinion possible of a guy who did nothing more than be honest about his TM experience with a filmmaker. Another relative newb is on a campaign to out anyone who posts here, so that he can know who exactly they are and where they live; one can only wonder why he wants to know this, and what plans he has for the heretics once he has learned this information. Several others seem to be able to contribute little more than piling on to demonize the posters who don't toe the TM Party Line, and call them uplifting names like donkeys. That's pretty much the side representing TM, and all that it has done for the TMers in question, who have now been practicing it for many years or decades. On the other side, consider the simple post made by one of the people these TM supporters have been trying to demonize lately. Mark Landau made an honest and forth- right post, containing no antagonism and stooping to no name-calling, expressing more positive sentiments about Maharishi than all of the folks I mention above have made in all of their cumulative posts to FFL. If I were a lurker, I'd be looking at What you focus on you become. It seems to me that on the whole those who have appointed themselves as TM defenders can't seem to do anything but defend. They seem incapable of saying anything positive about that which they are defending, only negative things about those who they feel are against it. Meanwhile, one of the people they are trying diligently to demonize *was* able to post positive things about Maharishi and TM. Go figure. If I were a lurker, I sure know which I'd be more impressed by.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@... wrote: do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. But that's because liberals are sensitive, feeling people, my only problem is that most project their pain outwards and gravitate to pseudo-spiritual icons like Gandhi MLK. Anyway being happy with the mundane is a curse. Being poor, you fail to understand this, so you're unhappy. You could go out and get a job and make some money if you wanted to.
[FairfieldLife] 'Tell tale smirk runs in 'The family'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L3mZXjdYBsNR=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@ wrote: do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. But that's because liberals are sensitive, feeling people, my only problem is that most project their pain outwards and gravitate to pseudo-spiritual icons like Gandhi MLK. Anyway being happy with the mundane is a curse. Oops..I omitted the liberal darling, The Dolly Lama - apologies.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ravi Yogi Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@... wrote: do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. But that's because liberals are sensitive, feeling people, my only problem is that most project their pain outwards and gravitate to pseudo-spiritual icons like Gandhi MLK. Everyone has a role to play. A lot of Indians and Blacks would be a lot worse off without Gandhi and MLK.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
On 07/21/2011 07:45 PM, richardjwilliamstexas wrote: Bhairitu: You would need a region free player for that. Got this nice little unit about six months ago and I liked it so much that I bought one for my daughter out in Santa rosa. Pioneer DV-220V-K 1080p Region Free DVD Player w/HDMI USB Amazon $68 http://tinyurl.com/3m5f444 I have two region free players. I was speaking for the non-tech crowd here. I'm in no hurry but just was wondering why it was taking so long for a US distribution? And if it doesn't look like it is worth it for a distributor then Netflix streaming might be the answer or even Vudu. Probably best to wait for the region 1 version and it'll be $20 at Frys. ;-) Maybe so, but I wouldn't give you .10 cents for a copy. The last time I bought anything that was recommended by Joe cost me $38 for a crummy paperback with lousy pictures in it. I threw it the trash heap! Why are you TMO types always trying to sell us something, or trying to make a dime off of the dead MMY? It's just outrageous! Who you talking to, Willy?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: There are some people, including Srila Prabhupada, who think that the moon landing was a hoax. FWIW, Prabhupada thought that the Moon was further away than the Sun. He also thought that there are spiritual beings and water on the Moon. As such, in vedic literature, the Moon is the significator of soma and abundance here on Earth. Had Prabhupada known about astronaut butt molds, he would have reconsidered his belief the moon landings were a hoax. It's proof that NASA was serious about completing a successful mission as well as cover ass. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/08/astronautbutts/ Apollo 11 Eagle 20 July 1969 Apollo 12 Intrepid19 November 1969 Apollo 14 Antares 5 February 1971 Apollo 15 Falcon 30 July 1971 Apollo 16 Orion 21 April 1972 Apollo 17 Challenger 11 December 1972 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: On the anniversary of the first man on the moon, and with the final space shuttle mission set to end Thursday, Wired.com takes a look back at the extraordinary amount of training astronauts go through before they are mission ready. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/07/moon-landing-gallery/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
The following analysis is for those who are interested in the current financial situation of the United States government. [from factcheck.org] *Does Washington have a spending problem or an income problem? We offer some key facts.* http://factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/ This site offers interesting information on politicians and political organisations (both parties) that twist facts to suit their message. This current page discusses where the government's income comes from, and where it goes within some historical perspective. They also provide the references for their sources of information.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardjwilliamstexas willytex@ wrote: do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. But that's because liberals are sensitive, feeling people, my only problem is that most project their pain outwards and gravitate to pseudo-spiritual icons like Gandhi MLK. Everyone has a role to play. A lot of Indians and Blacks would be a lot worse off without Gandhi and MLK. Well we need more role-players than people stuck in roles. All Gandhi MLK did was provide a new set of clothes and the same old game continues.
[FairfieldLife] 'Republicans= Raksashas'
The republican party and it's members have turned into raksashas, as M would have said... They are on a twisted destructive journey of who knows where...except to amp up fear and trepidation, what they live on... Time warrents an all out asault of the 'Light of God' to conteract this very dark force, which is revealing itself, in all its meaness and lack of any compassion... r.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
LOL.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Yes, smart donkeys. Can probably tap out simple sums with their hooves. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Donkeys or asses or something else, I'm going to leave this to any expert zoologist on this list to classify them accordingly but I have to say these beasts are highly adaptable and chameleon like, quick to position themselves to devour their favorite targets. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Surely you don't mean doneys; you mean talking asses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Look! Talking donkeys! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jul 20, 2011, at 2:35 PM, turquoiseb wrote: Did anyone else notice that in this single post Mark said more positive things about Maharishi than tedadams and danfriedman have said in all of the posts they've made to Fairfield Life combined? Actually rather inspiring and hopeful. And he's OK with either side of the coin.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:06 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Anniversary 1st man on the moon There are some people, including Srila Prabhupada, who think that the moon landing was a hoax. FWIW, Prabhupada thought that the Moon was further away than the Sun. He also thought that there are spiritual beings and water on the Moon. As such, in vedic literature, the Moon is the significator of soma and abundance here on Earth. Hmmm. I should have asked Radanath Swami about that. Maharishi once mentioned something about the Pitá¹s (spirits of departed ancestors), living on the moon. I asked some skeptical question, mentioning how inhospitable the moon is, and he looked at me like I was an idiot (just throwing yaâ a line, Nabby). I guess he was referring to subtle beings. But why would they want to live there? Maybe on the subtle level, the moon is a great place to live. All the green cheese you can eat and stuff. Another acharya with a few video clips on the internet said that the Europeans came from the Moon. That's the reason why Americans with European ancestry have wanted to go back to the Moon. Believe it or not.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Republicans= Raksashas'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: The republican party and it's members have turned into raksashas, as M would have said... They are on a twisted destructive journey of who knows where...except to amp up fear and trepidation, what they live on... Time warrents an all out asault of the 'Light of God' to conteract this very dark force, which is revealing itself, in all its meaness and lack of any compassion... In vedic literature, the rakshasas became stronger than the devas after Jupiter, the guru of the devas, withdrew his support of the devas when he was insulted. Indra, the king of the devas, had to seek the intercession of Vishnu to restore the natural order. For us here on earth, it means yagyas would have to be performed in order to gain the support of nature in any of our endeavors.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Curtis, In your new Avatar as the Mr. Nice Guy, everything becomes a POV or opinion even it is downright lies, deception, sarcasm, mockery of something simple. No wonder the 3rd/9th axis in astrology attracted me so much since I struggled with it so much myself to integrate these opposing forces, 3rd for intellect, diplomacy and 9th for morals, ethics. An out and out intellectual has hard time with morals, ethics and taking a stand. I would had no problem if you viewed it as entertainment or examined the film's creative, artistic side, but so stamp it as a POV instead of agenda is just crap. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: I believe that there is an important distinction between agenda and point of view. If David is to be believed about his initial interest in the project, he did not come in with an agenda to make the movement look bad. Quite the opposite, he liked his TM practice and admired David Lynch. What developed through his project was something that distinguishes this kind of work from a piece on 60 minutes, his own POV which then shaped how he edited the piece. It is your POV that would shape a documentary with the balance that there is more positive than negative in a documentary about Maharishi and his movement. But that was not the conclusion he came to for himself if we are to believe the second hand reports about the film. (I am open to the idea that when I see it, I might declare it balanced according to my own POV.) You and I, Mark, Robin and many others had the experience of falling in love with Maharishi the person. I don't think David had this experience. So it is unlikely that he would take Mark's positive description of his time with Maharishi with the same weight we might. And then again we will value his experiences very differently according to our POV and supporting belief structure. Having sent my own experiences with Maharishi through my updated epistemological sausage grinder, I can both relate to Mark's personal experiences around Maharishi while not giving them the same weight in their being more of a description of reality, than a compelling subjective experience that has more to do with Mark than Maharishi. While being sympathetic concerning the compelling nature of these experiences, I may have come to different conclusions about what they ultimately mean in our quest to understand life. But a good documentary is not only judged by how much it conforms to an idea of balance. Give me a camera crew and I will create an advocacy piece for my own POV and make it as compelling as possible while trying to stay within ethical bounds of not deliberately misleading the viewer. And the viewer and judge if the POV shared is a compelling case or is just a skewed view. I trust a piece more that lets me in on the director's POV rather than a doc whose bias is either not explicit, or worse yet, when the director's bias is unknown to themselves. We also have the conflicting mixed bag that presents itself when we get into reporting on something as complex as Maharishi and his minions. Having spent some time with the press who tried to get the story as David did, I can report that the movement presents itself as vain, fey, pompous, deluded and creepily unaware that its bullshit PR is not flying to outsiders trying to get the story right. I heard time and time again that the story they were trying to tell got turned into the resistance of the movement to their telling it objectively. And the switch from Goulab Jamin sweet to the raging Bevan was often swift and sometimes scary. Without an insider's view that we shared, the movement looks like any other self important group who claims exclusive possession of the highest teaching. And I really can't argue with them because I suspect they are right. My enjoyment of TM and my affection for Maharishi does not mean that I am any closer to understanding the reality of life than someone who does not share my personal history. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: David, who made the film, definitely had an agenda. He interviewed me by phone. I emphasized repeatedly that he should tell the whole story, and that an honest telling would contain more positive than negative. But it appears that he just wanted to do a hatchet job. So he interviewed Mark for two hours, and chose something Mark said during those two hours that sounds negative. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tedadams108 Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:08 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals Rick, You're correct, I just didn't want to go on memory regarding any particular thing Mark said. I watched the film late at night, it's in german, and I was not focused only on what Mark said. If I knew this issue regarding the sandals
