[FairfieldLife] Re: Now It Can Be Told - There Is No Shankara In MMY's Teachings

[emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

In his commentaries, when Shankara used the term “samâdhi”, he was using the 
term as it was used in the Yogasutra-s of Patanjali where it was called 
“asamprajnata-samâdhi ”. Later Vedantins used the word “nirvikalpa-samâdhi” to 
refer to this same state of consciousness (chitta). Nirvikalpa means “without 
concepts” and without subject-object opposition.
  
 There are two points which ought to be noted concerning Sankara's presentation 
of yoga which differ from the model we find in Patanjali's Yogasutra. The first 
concerns method. Sankara does not say that all thought activity should be 
dissolved and suspended in the manner of the cittavrttinirodha of the 
Yogasutras. While in other places, Shankara has mentioned that meditation 
involves the withdrawal of the mind from sense objects, he has also made it 
clear that the dissolution and suspension of thoughts in the mind 
(cittavrttinirodha) is "not known as a means of liberation." (Shankara’s 
commentary on Katha 1.2.12 and Bhagavadgita 16.1.)
  
 Thus, we can see that the perspective of Sankara is fundamentally different 
from that of the yoga tradition where, although the purusa is presented as not 
something to be acquired, liberation is nonetheless a real goal to be attained 
through a process of mental discipline, which necessitates the complete 
suspension and dissolving of all mental activity to allow the “Self” to stand 
out alone. 
  
 That there is a certain ambivalence toward yoga on the part of the followers 
of Vedanta can be seen in Brahmasutra 2.1.3, "Thereby the Yoga is refuted," 
which offers a rejection of yoga following upon the rejection of Sankhya 
philosophy. The problem, as Shankara sees it, is that yoga practices are found 
in the Upanishads themselves, so the question arises as to what it is about 
yoga that needs to be rejected. Shankara says that the refutation of yoga has 
to do with its claim to be a means of liberation independent from the Vedic 
revelation (shruti).
  
 Shankara says, "... the shruti rejects the view that there is another means 
for liberation apart from the knowledge of the oneness of the Self which is 
revealed in the Veda." (BSBh 2.1.3)
  
 He then makes the point that "the followers of Sankhya and Yoga are dualists, 
they do not see the oneness of the Self." (BSBh 2.1.3)  The point that "the 
followers of Yoga are dualists" is an interesting one, for if the yogins are 
dualists even while they are exponents of asamprajnata-samâdhi (nirvikalpa 
samâdhi),  then such samâdhi does not of itself give rise 
to the knowledge of oneness as the modem exponents of Vedanta would have us 
believe. For if it did, then it would not have been possible for the yogins to 
be considered dualists. Clearly the modem Vedantins, in their expectation that 
samâdhi is the key to liberating oneness, have revalued the word and have given 
it a meaning which it does not bear in the yoga texts. And, we suggest, they 
have given it an importance which it does not possess in the classical Vedanta, 
as we are able to discern it in the writings of Sankara. (quoted by Shri 
Vasudevacharya)
  
 At the beginning of his commentary upon the Gita, Shankara makes a significant 
statement concerning the relation of Sankhya to Yoga. He says that Sankhya 
means ascertaining the truth about the Self as it really is and that Krsna has 
done this in his teaching from verses 2.11 up until 2.31. He says that 
sankhyabuddhi is the understanding which arises from ascertaining the meaning 
in its context, and it consists in the understanding that the Self is not an 
agent of action because the Self is free from the sixfold modifications 
beginning with coming into being. He states that those people to whom such an 
understanding becomes natural are called Sankhyas. He then says that Yoga is 
prior to the rise of the understanding above. Yoga consists of performing 
disciplines (sadhana) that lead to liberation; it presupposes the 
discrimination between virtue and its opposite, and it depends upon the idea 
that the Self is other than the body and that it is an agent and an enjoyer. 
Such an understanding is yogabuddhi, and the people who have such an 
understanding are called Yogins. From this it is clear that Shankara relegates 
Yoga to the sphere of ignorance (avidya) because the Yogins are those who, 
unlike the Sankhyas, take the Self to be an agent and an enjoyer while it is 
really neither. They are, therefore, in Shankara's eyes, not yet knowers of the 
truth.
  
 Sankara again clearly demarcates Sankhya and Yoga in his comments on verse 
2.39, where Krsna says, "O Partha, this understanding about Sankhya has been 
imparted to you. Now listen to this understanding about Yoga" According to 
Shankara, 'Sankhya' means the "discrimination concerning ultimate truth," and 
the 'understanding' pertaining to Sankhya means a "knowledge which is the 
direct cause for the termination of the defect which brings about samsara 
con

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Yes, no value judgement here in using the terms higher and lower, simply for 
relative measurement and differentiation, in a limited context. Shorthand. The 
curve of capability rises upwards with creatures, ending with the humans. Gives 
us greater responsibility - that's it. As for being stewards of the planet, we 
must learn to be, due to our unique ability to multiply our power, and 
influence our environment through tech, even though we are in a steep learning 
curve now.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used in an 
engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be calling a 
frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling speed, with a higher 
frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I use higher order as a 
reflection of our innate capabilities, not our moral superiority.
 

 I'm just exploring here as I go and I appreciate your input. You are smart and 
I respect your intelligence so I take what you are saying and I am weighing it 
against what I know, what I don't know and what I have experienced or seen.
 

 With regard to "engineering" I know where you're coming and even though this 
engineering means we can build cool stuff, make art and create amazing 
structures and cities there is often a disconnect between 'the machine' and 
what is created by that machine and in turn how this effects everything else 
around us. What I love about "nature" is how it seems to function with an 
innate intelligence of how everything has to fit together and that each species 
is endowed with the intelligence and tools to carry out its particular role as 
part of a vast whole. 
 

 At the same time, I have experienced incredible consciousness emanating out of 
mammals and birds who definitely are not simply functioning from "instinct" as 
John asserts. And because of this great presence and the variety of 
characteristics animals can display I am hesitant to categorize anything as 
"higher" or "lower" - especially when you look at the "engineered" humans 
engaging in all sorts of non life-supporting activities day in and day out. I 
think with engineering comes responsibility (like you said) and if the one with 
the greater tools fail in using them for ends other than self gain and 
destruction they become so much lower than toilet scum.
 

 I am also not convinced that we are "the stewards of the planet", not unless 
we believe what we, ourselves, have imagined as our role. The only reason we 
have to take greater responsibility is because we have overrun the place and 
rendered it inhabitable for about half of the life/species here. Without us, 
the planet would do just fine.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans are 
inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are.  

 We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that doesn't 
confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging and increasing 
our power through technology gives us the capability to act in much worse ways 
than the animals, and also gives us a great responsibility as the stewards of 
this planet. Unlike a swallow who can only build a nest, or a bee that can only 
produce a hive, or a beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans 
can do all three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each.  

 True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 'dharma' 
thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the builders of so many 
different things while, in nature, each animal has its own job, its particular 
and individual place in nature to do what it must to complete the whole? For 
one species, homo Sapiens, to take on so many aspects of altering and 
influencing the world - this seems in stark contrast to how the rest of nature 
works. Perhaps this is why we get into so much trouble, sticking our nose into 
things we have no business sticking it. (LOL)
 

 It is the inspiration of the animals' abilities, though, that brings about 
much of our creativity - flying is a great example. Humanity is not somehow 
better than the animals, but we do far exceed them in our ability to manipulate 
the environment, for better or worse, while pursuing and developing our 
individual and collective interests.
 

 Sure but this hardly makes us "higher". 
 

 Being human is the greatest challenge on earth, and an incredible gift to be 
born as such, simply because we can live our lives as we choose, without the 
constraints of already dwelling in a more limited form of perfection, as does 
everything else, the rocks, plants, and animals. We are also indebted at birth, 
like any living thing, to the laws governing this planet, and as human beings, 
this gives us unprecedented opportunities for learni

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Thu 09-Jun-16 00:15:07 UTC

[FFL PostCount ffl.postco...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 06/04/16 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 06/11/16 00:00:00
144 messages as of (UTC) 06/08/16 23:54:07

 41 Mike Dixon mdixon.6569
 23 awoelflebater
 20 olliesedwuz
  9 hepa7
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  6 yifuxero
  6 jr_esq
  6 feste37 
  6 dhamiltony2k5
  4 vox_9 
  4 Bhairitu noozguru
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Posters: 17
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I would be very concerned if they *didn't* sound scared. They didn't take Obama 
seriously, either time. Trump set a record for Primary votes. Democrats were 
down something like eight million and Hillary down 1.4 million from '08.

  From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 12:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS
   
      She definitely sounds presidential.  Trump and the Republicans are scared.





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used in an 
engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be calling a 
frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling speed, with a higher 
frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I use higher order as a 
reflection of our innate capabilities, not our moral superiority.
I'm just exploring here as I go and I appreciate your input. You are smart and 
I respect your intelligence so I take what you are saying and I am weighing it 
against what I know, what I don't know and what I have experienced or seen.
With regard to "engineering" I know where you're coming and even though this 
engineering means we can build cool stuff, make art and create amazing 
structures and cities there is often a disconnect between 'the machine' and 
what is created by that machine and in turn how this effects everything else 
around us. What I love about "nature" is how it seems to function with an 
innate intelligence of how everything has to fit together and that each species 
is endowed with the intelligence and tools to carry out its particular role as 
part of a vast whole. 
At the same time, I have experienced incredible consciousness emanating out of 
mammals and birds who definitely are not simply functioning from "instinct" as 
John asserts. And because of this great presence and the variety of 
characteristics animals can display I am hesitant to categorize anything as 
"higher" or "lower" - especially when you look at the "engineered" humans 
engaging in all sorts of non life-supporting activities day in and day out. I 
think with engineering comes responsibility (like you said) and if the one with 
the greater tools fail in using them for ends other than self gain and 
destruction they become so much lower than toilet scum.
I am also not convinced that we are "the stewards of the planet", not unless we 
believe what we, ourselves, have imagined as our role. The only reason we have 
to take greater responsibility is because we have overrun the place and 
rendered it inhabitable for about half of the life/species here. Without us, 
the planet would do just fine.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans are 
inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are. 
We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that doesn't 
confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging and increasing 
our power through technology gives us the capability to act in much worse ways 
than the animals, and also gives us a great responsibility as the stewards of 
this planet. Unlike a swallow who can only build a nest, or a bee that can only 
produce a hive, or a beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans 
can do all three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each. 
True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 'dharma' 
thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the builders of so many 
different things while, in nature, each animal has its own job, its particular 
and individual place in nature to do what it must to complete the whole? For 
one species, homo Sapiens, to take on so many aspects of altering and 
influencing the world - this seems in stark contrast to how the rest of nature 
works. Perhaps this is why we get into so much trouble, sticking our nose into 
things we have no business sticking it. (LOL)
It is the inspiration of the animals' abilities, though, that brings about much 
of our creativity - flying is a great example. Humanity is not somehow better 
than the animals, but we do far exceed them in our ability to manipulate the 
environment, for better or worse, while pursuing and developing our individual 
and collective interests.
Sure but this hardly makes us "higher". 
Being human is the greatest challenge on earth, and an incredible gift to be 
born as such, simply because we can live our lives as we choose, without the 
constraints of already dwelling in a more limited form of perfection, as does 
everything else, the rocks, plants, and animals. We are also indebted at birth, 
like any living thing, to the laws governing this planet, and as human beings, 
this gives us unprecedented opportunities for learning, in all d

[FairfieldLife] The New Mind Control

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

The Internet has spawned subtle forms of influence that can flip 
elections and manipulate everything we say, think and do

https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-internet-flips-elections-and-alters-our-thoughts

/"Looking ahead to the November 2016 US presidential election, I see 
clear signs that Google is backing Hillary Clinton. In April 2015, 
Clinton hired Stephanie Hannon away from Google to be her chief 
technology officer and, a few months ago, Eric Schmidt, chairman of the 
holding company that controls Google, set up a semi-secret company – The 
Groundwork – for the specific purpose of putting Clinton in office. The 
formation of The Groundwork prompted Julian Assange, founder of 
Wikileaks, to dub Google Clinton’s ‘secret weapon’ in her quest for the 
US presidency."


/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

No, you've been taken for a ride by Hillary.

On 06/08/2016 03:31 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Boy, Bhairitu, have you been taken for a ride by the right-wing!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Boy, Bhairitu, have you been taken for a ride by the right-wing!

[FairfieldLife] Hillary Clinton's Primary Victory

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Bhairitu,
 

 I've reserved in supporting Hillary because she is now running the major 
period of a debilitated Sun in her jyotish chart.  But if Nadi astrology rules 
are used, her chart looks better in that the sublord of the Sun is an exalted 
Rahu in Taurus.  To make a long story short, the exalted Rahu is placed in the 
7th house of people and politics and is aspecting the eleventh house of 
victory.  That's why she's doing very well so far.
 

 If Trump gets nominated by the Republicans, Hillary Clinton is clearly in a 
better position to win the presidency.
 

 

 

 (Your statement from another thread).
 

 There are a lot of actors who can sound "presidential".  Would you vote for 
them too?  Do be superficial.  Hillary is not to be trusted and she'll say 
anything to rule to world.


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

There are a lot of actors who can sound "presidential".  Would you vote 
for them too?  Do be superficial. Hillary is not to be trusted and 
she'll say anything to rule to world.


On 06/08/2016 10:48 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:

Ann,

You sound like you're running for office in Canada.  I mean that in a 
positive way.  By the way, here is Hillary Clinton's victory speech, 
which you probably already seen.  She definitely sounds presidential.  
Trump and the Republicans are scared.


Hillary Clinton Tweets Message to Young Girls Everywhere: Dream Big 
 





image 
 




Hillary Clinton Tweets Message to Young Girls Ev... 
 

Hillary Clinton is positioned to be the first woman in history to lead 
a major party, a milestone not lost on the former secretary of state. 
The now-presumptive Dem...


View on www.yahoo.com 
 



Preview by Yahoo







---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used 
in an engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be 
calling a frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling 
speed, with a higher frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I 
use higher order as a reflection of our innate capabilities, not our 
moral superiority.


I'm just exploring here as I go and I appreciate your input. You are 
smart and I respect your intelligence so I take what you are saying 
and I am weighing it against what I know, what I don't know and what I 
have experienced or seen.


With regard to "engineering" I know where you're coming and even 
though this engineering means we can build cool stuff, make art and 
create amazing structures and cities there is often a disconnect 
between 'the machine' and what is created by that machine and in turn 
how this effects everything else around us. What I love about "nature" 
is how it seems to function with an innate intelligence of how 
everything has to fit together and that each species is endowed with 
the intelligence and tools to carry out its particular role as part of 
a vast whole.


At the same time, I have experienced incredible consciousness 
emanating out of mammals and birds who definitely are not simply 
functioning from "instinct" as John asserts. And because of this great 
presence and the variety of characteristics animals can display I am 
hesitant to categorize anything as "higher" or "lower" - especially 
when you look at the "engineered" humans engaging in all sorts of non 
life-supporting activities day in and day out. I think with 
engineering comes responsibility (like you said) and if the one with 
the greater tools fail in usin! g them for ends other than self gain 
and destruction they become so much lower than toilet scum.


I am also not convinced that we are "the stewards of the planet", not 
unless we believe what we, ourselves, have imagined as our role. The 
only reason we have to take greater responsibility is because we have 
overrun the place and rendered it inhabitable for about half of the 
life/species here. Without us, the planet would do just fine.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans 
are inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are.


We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that 
doesn't confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging 
and increasing our power through technology gives us the capability to 
act in much worse ways than the animals, and also gives us a great 
responsibility as the stewards of this planet. Unlike a swallow who 
can only build a nest, or a bee that can only produce a hive, or a 
beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans can do all 
three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each.


True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 
'dharma' thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the 
builders of so many different things while, in nature, each animal has 
its own job, its particular and individual place in nature to do what 
it must to complete the whole? For one species, homo Sapiens, to take 
on so many aspects of altering and influencing the world - this seems 
in stark contrast to how the rest of nature works. Perhaps this is why 
we get into so much trou

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ann,
 

 You sound like you're running for office in Canada.  I mean that in a positive 
way.  By the way, here is Hillary Clinton's victory speech, which you probably 
already seen.  She definitely sounds presidential.  Trump and the Republicans 
are scared.
 

 Hillary Clinton Tweets Message to Young Girls Everywhere: Dream Big 
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hillary-clinton-tweets-message-young-girls-everywhere-dream-112007861--abc-news-topstories.html
 
 
 
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hillary-clinton-tweets-message-young-girls-everywhere-dream-112007861--abc-news-topstories.html
 
 
 Hillary Clinton Tweets Message to Young Girls Ev... 
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hillary-clinton-tweets-message-young-girls-everywhere-dream-112007861--abc-news-topstories.html
 Hillary Clinton is positioned to be the first woman in history to lead a major 
party, a milestone not lost on the former secretary of state. The 
now-presumptive Dem...
 
 
 
 View on www.yahoo.com 
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hillary-clinton-tweets-message-young-girls-everywhere-dream-112007861--abc-news-topstories.html
 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used in an 
engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be calling a 
frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling speed, with a higher 
frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I use higher order as a 
reflection of our innate capabilities, not our moral superiority.
 

 I'm just exploring here as I go and I appreciate your input. You are smart and 
I respect your intelligence so I take what you are saying and I am weighing it 
against what I know, what I don't know and what I have experienced or seen.
 

 With regard to "engineering" I know where you're coming and even though this 
engineering means we can build cool stuff, make art and create amazing 
structures and cities there is often a disconnect between 'the machine' and 
what is created by that machine and in turn how this effects everything else 
around us. What I love about "nature" is how it seems to function with an 
innate intelligence of how everything has to fit together and that each species 
is endowed with the intelligence and tools to carry out its particular role as 
part of a vast whole. 
 

 At the same time, I have experienced incredible consciousness emanating out of 
mammals and birds who definitely are not simply functioning from "instinct" as 
John asserts. And because of this great presence and the variety of 
characteristics animals can display I am hesitant to categorize anything as 
"higher" or "lower" - especially when you look at the "engineered" humans 
engaging in all sorts of non life-supporting activities day in and day out. I 
think with engineering comes responsibility (like you said) and if the one with 
the greater tools fail in using them for ends other than self gain and 
destruction they become so much lower than toilet scum.
 

 I am also not convinced that we are "the stewards of the planet", not unless 
we believe what we, ourselves, have imagined as our role. The only reason we 
have to take greater responsibility is because we have overrun the place and 
rendered it inhabitable for about half of the life/species here. Without us, 
the planet would do just fine.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans are 
inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are.  

 We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that doesn't 
confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging and increasing 
our power through technology gives us the capability to act in much worse ways 
than the animals, and also gives us a great responsibility as the stewards of 
this planet. Unlike a swallow who can only build a nest, or a bee that can only 
produce a hive, or a beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans 
can do all three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each.  

 True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 'dharma' 
thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the builders of so many 
different things while, in nature, each animal has its own job, its particular 
and individual place in nature to do what it must to complete the whole? For 
one species, homo Sapiens, to take on so many aspects of altering and 
influencing the world - this seems in stark contrast to how the rest of nature 
works. Perhaps this is why we get into so much trouble, sticking our nose into 
things we have no business sticking it. (LOL)
 

 It is the inspiration of the animals' abilities, though, that brings about 
much of our creativity - flying is a great example. Humanity is not somehow 
better than the animals, but we do far exceed

[FairfieldLife] Re: a poem for Ann

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Come into Animal Presence By Denise Levertov 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
 
 http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov
 
 Denise Levertov 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
During the course of a prolific career, Denise Levertov created a highly 
regarded body of poetry that reflects her beliefs as an artist and a humanist. 
Her work emb...


 
 View on www.poetryfoundation... 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov
 Preview by Yahoo 
 




 Come into animal presence.

 No man is so guileless as

 the serpent. The lonely white

 rabbit on the roof is a star

 twitching its ears at the rain.

 The llama intricately

 folding its hind legs to be seated

 not disdains but mildly

 disregards human approval.

 What joy when the insouciant

 armadillo glances at us and doesn't

 quicken his trotting

 across the track into the palm brush.

 

 What is this joy? That no animal

 falters, but knows what it must do?

 That the snake has no blemish,

 that the rabbit inspects his strange surroundings

 in white star-silence? The llama

 rests in dignity, the armadillo

 has some intention to pursue in the palm-forest.

 Those who were sacred have remained so,

 holiness does not dissolve, it is a presence

 of bronze, only the sight that saw it

 faltered and turned from it.

 An old joy returns in holy presence.

 

 Lovely, you got it, Feste (and so does the sensitive and intelligent Denise).
 





 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used in an 
engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be calling a 
frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling speed, with a higher 
frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I use higher order as a 
reflection of our innate capabilities, not our moral superiority.
 

 I'm just exploring here as I go and I appreciate your input. You are smart and 
I respect your intelligence so I take what you are saying and I am weighing it 
against what I know, what I don't know and what I have experienced or seen.
 

 With regard to "engineering" I know where you're coming and even though this 
engineering means we can build cool stuff, make art and create amazing 
structures and cities there is often a disconnect between 'the machine' and 
what is created by that machine and in turn how this effects everything else 
around us. What I love about "nature" is how it seems to function with an 
innate intelligence of how everything has to fit together and that each species 
is endowed with the intelligence and tools to carry out its particular role as 
part of a vast whole. 
 

 At the same time, I have experienced incredible consciousness emanating out of 
mammals and birds who definitely are not simply functioning from "instinct" as 
John asserts. And because of this great presence and the variety of 
characteristics animals can display I am hesitant to categorize anything as 
"higher" or "lower" - especially when you look at the "engineered" humans 
engaging in all sorts of non life-supporting activities day in and day out. I 
think with engineering comes responsibility (like you said) and if the one with 
the greater tools fail in using them for ends other than self gain and 
destruction they become so much lower than toilet scum.
 

 I am also not convinced that we are "the stewards of the planet", not unless 
we believe what we, ourselves, have imagined as our role. The only reason we 
have to take greater responsibility is because we have overrun the place and 
rendered it inhabitable for about half of the life/species here. Without us, 
the planet would do just fine.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans are 
inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are.  

 We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that doesn't 
confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging and increasing 
our power through technology gives us the capability to act in much worse ways 
than the animals, and also gives us a great responsibility as the stewards of 
this planet. Unlike a swallow who can only build a nest, or a bee that can only 
produce a hive, or a beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans 
can do all three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each.  

 True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 'dharma' 
thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the builders of so many 
different things while, in nature, each animal has its own job, its particular 
and individual place in nature to do what it must to complete the whole? For 
one species, homo Sapiens, to take on so many aspects of altering and 
influencing the world - this seems in stark contrast to how the rest of nature 
works. Perhaps this is why we get into so much trouble, sticking our nose into 
things we have no business sticking it. (LOL)
 

 It is the inspiration of the animals' abilities, though, that brings about 
much of our creativity - flying is a great example. Humanity is not somehow 
better than the animals, but we do far exceed them in our ability to manipulate 
the environment, for better or worse, while pursuing and developing our 
individual and collective interests.
 

 Sure but this hardly makes us "higher". 
 

 Being human is the greatest challenge on earth, and an incredible gift to be 
born as such, simply because we can live our lives as we choose, without the 
constraints of already dwelling in a more limited form of perfection, as does 
everything else, the rocks, plants, and animals. We are also indebted at birth, 
like any living thing, to the laws governing this planet, and as human beings, 
this gives us unprecedented opportunities for learning, in all domains. If we 
are doing it right, this brings about feelings of joy, sadness, humility, 
challenge, concern, compassion, and wonder - did I miss any? :-)
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Humans will always be higher order than animals, due to greater intelligence 
and adaptability. I do think it is fascinating that using such gifts we can 
emulate a state of awareness much lower than the animals too. It is that 
flexibility unique to our species 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Water (Hillary) strong on election day?

[he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

THE GLOBAL AND THE LOCAL: The jyotish astrological lowdown on Trump, Clinton, 
Sanders 
http://sushma.blogspot.fi/2016/03/the-jyotish-astrological-lowdown-on.html 
 
 http://sushma.blogspot.fi/2016/03/the-jyotish-astrological-lowdown-on.html 
 
 THE GLOBAL AND THE LOCAL: The jyotish astrolo... 
http://sushma.blogspot.fi/2016/03/the-jyotish-astrological-lowdown-on.html 
Since this pertains to the future of the world, folks, I am giving you the real 
(astrological) lowdown on the US presidential hopefuls. 
 
 
 
 View on sushma.blogspot.fi 
http://sushma.blogspot.fi/2016/03/the-jyotish-astrological-lowdown-on.html 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
  


 

Currently, Trump has retrograde Jupiter and Rahu transiting Leo (as do we all.) 
For him, Leo rules the 10th House from Moon, and it is also his ascendant. This 
means Mr. Trump is going to be perceived as someone with unconventional wisdom 
that breaks the usual rules and regulations, and he will be wildly popular in 
his “workplace”. This will last till May 9th. After May 9th, he’ll still be 
perceived as a wise man, but by August, when Jupiter shifts to Virgo, his 
popularity will wane and he will be left with wanting more power, but getting 
only the emptiness of the big crowd that has vanished without a trace. His 
impressive wisdom will begin to seem like an illusion, although his 
unconventional speech will still mint him plenty of money (Jupiter will shift 
to his House of Wealth and House of Gains via ascendant and Moon chart, 
respectively). Perhaps a TV deal worth millions? 

 .
 

 Ultimately, whether she will succeed in her Presidential bid or not will 
depend upon the strength of her planetary strengths. At the present moment, I 
see its good timing for Clinton because Saturn is transiting her 10th House of 
Profession. Saturn, however, is also engaged in Sixth House of Enemies, so any 
success she has is not going to come without effort. Unlike Trump’s, there’s no 
surprising and unpleasant rises and falls here--this is a solid chart of 
someone fortunate who will always have a good life. Jupiter in the quads with 
the Moon means she has a gajekesari yoga: the lion and the elephant yoga, which 
shows someone who will always have a fortunate, comfortable life.
 

 Khumba rashi is also ruled by Saturn, so Clinton is in a strong position to be 
running for President. The only problem for her, I foresee, might come from the 
fact Jupiter will enter Virgo, her 8th House (of humiliations, scandals etc) in 
August, and there might be more dirty laundry regarding Bill Clinton that 
people are going to start pulling out from the gutter once August rolls around. 
This will last for 1.5 years.
 

 Since Saturn is transiting her 10th House from Moon, she will still be in a 
strong position at work till at least November 2017, if not for another 10 
years or so.
 


 

[FairfieldLife] a poem for Ann

[feste37]

Come into Animal Presence By Denise Levertov 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
 
 http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
 
 Denise Levertov 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
During the course of a prolific career, Denise Levertov created a highly 
regarded body of poetry that reflects her beliefs as an artist and a humanist. 
Her work emb...
 
 
 
 View on www.poetryfoundation... 
http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poets/detail/denise-levertov 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 



 Come into animal presence.

 No man is so guileless as

 the serpent. The lonely white

 rabbit on the roof is a star

 twitching its ears at the rain.

 The llama intricately

 folding its hind legs to be seated

 not disdains but mildly

 disregards human approval.

 What joy when the insouciant

 armadillo glances at us and doesn't

 quicken his trotting

 across the track into the palm brush.

 

 What is this joy? That no animal

 falters, but knows what it must do?

 That the snake has no blemish,

 that the rabbit inspects his strange surroundings

 in white star-silence? The llama

 rests in dignity, the armadillo

 has some intention to pursue in the palm-forest.

 Those who were sacred have remained so,

 holiness does not dissolve, it is a presence

 of bronze, only the sight that saw it

 faltered and turned from it.

 An old joy returns in holy presence.

 





 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Another Town is Liberated from ISIS

[olliesed...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

As for my use of the term "higher order" wrt human beings, it is used in an 
engineering sense, not a moral one. A similar example would be calling a 
frequency wave higher or lower, referring to its cycling speed, with a higher 
frequency wave able to carry much more data. So I use higher order as a 
reflection of our innate capabilities, not our moral superiority. 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 OK, though you are addressing something I didn't assert - that humans are 
inherently better, or closer to God, than animals are.  

 We have greater skills due to our tool creating ability, but that doesn't 
confer anything on us, except responsibility. This leveraging and increasing 
our power through technology gives us the capability to act in much worse ways 
than the animals, and also gives us a great responsibility as the stewards of 
this planet. Unlike a swallow who can only build a nest, or a bee that can only 
produce a hive, or a beaver that can only build a dam, every one of us humans 
can do all three...and then build a factory to produce thousands of each.  

 True enough. There is this term I remember from being at MIU, this 'dharma' 
thing. Can it be the dharma of human beings to be the builders of so many 
different things while, in nature, each animal has its own job, its particular 
and individual place in nature to do what it must to complete the whole? For 
one species, homo Sapiens, to take on so many aspects of altering and 
influencing the world - this seems in stark contrast to how the rest of nature 
works. Perhaps this is why we get into so much trouble, sticking our nose into 
things we have no business sticking it. (LOL)
 

 It is the inspiration of the animals' abilities, though, that brings about 
much of our creativity - flying is a great example. Humanity is not somehow 
better than the animals, but we do far exceed them in our ability to manipulate 
the environment, for better or worse, while pursuing and developing our 
individual and collective interests.
 

 Sure but this hardly makes us "higher". 
 

 Being human is the greatest challenge on earth, and an incredible gift to be 
born as such, simply because we can live our lives as we choose, without the 
constraints of already dwelling in a more limited form of perfection, as does 
everything else, the rocks, plants, and animals. We are also indebted at birth, 
like any living thing, to the laws governing this planet, and as human beings, 
this gives us unprecedented opportunities for learning, in all domains. If we 
are doing it right, this brings about feelings of joy, sadness, humility, 
challenge, concern, compassion, and wonder - did I miss any? :-)
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Humans will always be higher order than animals, due to greater intelligence 
and adaptability. I do think it is fascinating that using such gifts we can 
emulate a state of awareness much lower than the animals too. It is that 
flexibility unique to our species that makes us top of the pile. The challenge 
appears to be to gain the acceptance of life and naturalness that animals have, 
while honoring our own birthright.
 

 I know that it is generally believed that homo sapiens are "higher" than any 
other creature on the planet but I think that belief is based on limited 
outlook. I also think it originated within the religious thinking that (guess 
who!) humans invented so naturally they'll place themselves highest on the 
evolutionary totem pole. But, for the sake of playing the Devil's Advocate, I 
don't experience human beings to be "higher" and I'll give just a smattering of 
reasons why. Can animals experience love, compassion, generosity and deep 
intelligence? Yes. Are they driven by greed, addiction, power lust and anger? 
No. Do they engage in war or mass decimation of either their own species or 
other species? No. Were they made by the same forces that created homo sapiens? 
Very likely. Do they possess life energy and consciousness? Yup. If there was 
such a thing as God would that God love his animals less than his evolved apes? 
Not in my estimation, no. The fact that our species can produce a Monet, a 
Beethoven or a Shakespeare is extraordinary but in the grand scheme (or farce) 
of things does an oil painting, a collection of musical notes or a sonnet prove 
we are better than an intricate dam built by the beaver, a swallow's nest made 
of mud and grass or a beehive made with perfect geometry? And just imagine, 
every beaver, every swallow and every honey bee can do this, not just the 
geniuses among their species.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 These ISIS jihadists are the current manifestations of the asuras or devils in 
Nature.  They are  lower than   human beings, but are considered above animals 
in the Vedic

[FairfieldLife] Water (Hillary) strong on election day?

[he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

 Julkaistu 21.5.2016
 
 http://www.yourastrologysigns.com http://www.yourastrologysigns.com/
Trump or Clinton - so many of you have asked me to do a video about the US 
elections. Who will win? Donald or Hillary? Here it is!
 

 Trump or Clinton who wins? What the Astrology shows 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRpVL9ND1U

 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRpVL9ND1U 
 
 Trump or Clinton who wins? What the Astrology shows 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRpVL9ND1U http://www.yourastrologysigns.com 
Trump or Clinton - so many of you have asked me to do a video about the US 
elections. Who will win? Donald or Hillary? Here...
 
 
 
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKRpVL9ND1U 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Mona Walter on M. Ali and islaam

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

She pretty much hit the nail on the head, except Malcolm X did not reject 
Islam, just Elija Mohamed's brand as did Mohamed Ali.


  From: "he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:45 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Mona Walter on M. Ali and islaam
   
    Swedish somali Mona Walter:
I never liked Muhammed Ali
 
||
||||   I never liked Muhammed Ali  I don't want to hurt 
anyones feelings but this is what I think. I never liked Muhammad Ali because 
he converted to a religion of slavery and he took a slave ...||
|  View on www.youtube.com |Preview by Yahoo|
||

 
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[FairfieldLife] Mona Walter on M. Ali and islaam

[he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

Swedish somali Mona Walter:
 

 I never liked Muhammed Ali https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnScuchi_SU

 
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnScuchi_SU 
 
 I never liked Muhammed Ali https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnScuchi_SU I don't 
want to hurt anyones feelings but this is what I think. I never liked Muhammad 
Ali because he converted to a religion of slavery and he took a slave ...
 
 
 
 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnScuchi_SU 
 Preview by Yahoo