[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote:That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Moreover, it's the process of surrender itself, I should think, that does most of the "work" of structuring freedom. This discussion, and Judy's point (everyone's collectively, really) brough to mind the passage from the Gita (Gita scholars chime in here) where it says (paraphrased) "...better to die in one's own dharma than trying to take on the dharma of another..." I know that this has really had to come into play in my own life, realizing that all that I took and and tried to be via my long years with the TM org were attempts at living someone elses vision of how my life should be lived. And I've seen this struggle in so many others. Some have successfully managed to imbibe qualites/ways of living that, initially, seemed so alien, and they truly made them their own. Others, like me, strained to be a certain way and in many ways it backfired. I feel like I wasted years of my life, from age 30-40, knowing and experiencing my life as anything but a success but unwilling/unable to escape from the deep rut I had dug myself into from taking on a massive belief system that clearly wasn't working but which I clung to in the hopes I was wrong and any second now it was going to work. This never happened until I decided to "get out" and even then (15+ years ago) and now, I struggle with the whole thing. A huge problem I think as many of the original TM Teachers I know were told and sincerely believed they would be enlightened in5 years. They are all in poverty now as I will be unless I get my act together! The movement promises so much and while the evolution is real it doesn't lead to what you expect. Most of it is such crap but obviously really appeals to the seeker. Look on the bright side everyone I know who has been holding down a job paying a mortgage all these years is really jealous of our evolutionary lives. The grass is always greener... Perhaps the government will take pity on us and give us a fat pension as a reward for all our coherence creating. (I hope you can tell that's a joke) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Judy, I did not think your point was the taking on of the dharma of another, OK, I wasn't sure. but I do think there are some similarities between attuning one's mind/consciousness to the mind/consciousness of another, whether or not the intent is the taking on of their dharma. I don't see how the two cannot become commingled once one attunes one mind/consciousness to that of another. I'm sure that *can* happen, but my guess is that if it's done right, it doesn't. I should think that since the whole process is about giving up one's own will, it rules out what's involved in taking on someone else's dharma; the two seem to me to be incompatible. Re: your second point, I have tried, with some degree of success, to look at the 20+ years within the TM org. as a learning experience. There's certainly nothing I can do to recapture any of them. It still seems such a shame that so many intelligent, well- meaning people spent so many years of their lives, some are still deeply entrenched, and end up, after so many years, with little to show for the years. And I'm not even talking about anything fancy, I'm talking the very basics, such as a decent place to live, a decent car to get around, the ability to pay for repairs as needed. Even more, though, as many of us are now in our late 50s (and beyone) I'm talking about the ability to go out of life with some dignity. Well, I certainly wish you the best in attaining that dignity, whether it's via material support or inner strength and tranquility, or preferably both. It's just that in my own experience, the less I dwell on what a shame this or that was in my life, the more resources I have to face whatever is going on now. But I don't think it hurts to vent on occasion! There were many implicit and explicit promises made and many other carrots dangled. The movement leaned hard on devotion and service to the nobelest of causes. In light of recertification and rajas, some of it is much less ethical than the nastiest of business scandals. The venting is a minor thing, for sure. JohnY REcertification and rajas are less ethical than the neastiest of business scandals? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Moreover, it's the process of surrender itself, I should think, that does most of the work of structuring freedom. This discussion, and Judy's point (everyone's collectively, really) brough to mind the passage from the Gita (Gita scholars chime in here) where it says (paraphrased) ...better to die in one's own dharma than trying to take on the dharma of another... I know that this has really had to come into play in my own life, realizing that all that I took and and tried to be via my long years with the TM org were attempts at living someone elses vision of how my life should be lived. And I've seen this struggle in so many others. Some have successfully managed to imbibe qualites/ways of living that, initially, seemed so alien, and they truly made them their own. Others, like me, strained to be a certain way and in many ways it backfired. I feel like I wasted years of my life, from age 30-40, knowing and experiencing my life as anything but a success but unwilling/unable to escape from the deep rut I had dug myself into from taking on a massive belief system that clearly wasn't working but which I clung to in the hopes I was wrong and any second now it was going to work. This never happened until I decided to get out and even then (15+ years ago) and now, I struggle with the whole thing. A huge problem I think as many of the original TM Teachers I know were told and sincerely believed they would be enlightened in 5 years. They are all in poverty now as I will be unless I get my act together! Who all?Most of the early TM teachers *I* have met seem to be doing quite well, either in retirement or whatever. The movement promises so much and while the evolution is real it doesn't lead to what you expect. Most of it is such crap but obviously really appeals to the seeker. Look on the bright side everyone I know who has been holding down a job paying a mortgage all these years is really jealous of our evolutionary lives. The grass is always greener... Perhaps the government will take pity on us and give us a fat pension as a reward for all our coherence creating. (I hope you can tell that's a joke) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Judy, I did not think your point was the taking on of the dharma of another, OK, I wasn't sure. but I do think there are some similarities between attuning one's mind/consciousness to the mind/consciousness of another, whether or not the intent is the taking on of their dharma. I don't see how the two cannot become commingled once one attunes one mind/consciousness to that of another. I'm sure that *can* happen, but my guess is that if it's done right, it doesn't. I should think that since the whole process is about giving up one's own will, it rules out what's involved in taking on someone else's dharma; the two seem to me to be incompatible. Re: your second point, I have tried, with some degree of success, to look at the 20+ years within the TM org. as a learning experience. There's certainly nothing I can do to recapture any of them. It still seems such a shame that so many intelligent, well- meaning people spent so many years of their lives, some are still deeply entrenched, and end up, after so many years, with little to show for the years. And I'm not even talking about anything fancy, I'm talking the very basics, such as a decent place to live, a decent car to get around, the ability to pay for repairs as needed. Even more, though, as many of us are now in our late 50s (and beyone) I'm talking about the ability to go out of life with some dignity. Well, I certainly wish you the best in attaining that dignity, whether it's via material support or inner strength and tranquility, or preferably both. It's just that in my own experience, the less I dwell on what a shame this or that was in my life, the more resources I have to face whatever is going on now. But I don't think it hurts to vent on occasion! There were many implicit and explicit promises made and many other carrots dangled. The movement leaned hard on devotion and service to the nobelest of causes. In light of recertification and rajas, some of it is much less ethical than the nastiest of business scandals. The venting is a minor thing, for sure. JohnY REcertification and rajas are less ethical than the neastiest of business scandals? Less ethical because they took advantage of good will, sort of like defrauding the Make a Wish Foundation. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Moreover, it's the process of surrender itself, I should think, that does most of the work of structuring freedom. This discussion, and Judy's point (everyone's collectively, really) brough to mind the passage from the Gita (Gita scholars chime in here) where it says (paraphrased) ...better to die in one's own dharma than trying to take on the dharma of another... I know that this has really had to come into play in my own life, realizing that all that I took and and tried to be via my long years with the TM org were attempts at living someone elses vision of how my life should be lived. And I've seen this struggle in so many others. Some have successfully managed to imbibe qualites/ways of living that, initially, seemed so alien, and they truly made them their own. Others, like me, strained to be a certain way and in many ways it backfired. I feel like I wasted years of my life, from age 30-40, knowing and experiencing my life as anything but a success but unwilling/unable to escape from the deep rut I had dug myself into from taking on a massive belief system that clearly wasn't working but which I clung to in the hopes I was wrong and any second now it was going to work. This never happened until I decided to get out and even then (15+ years ago) and now, I struggle with the whole thing. Ricks example of those around him now I think is false. They are works in progress. Better examples are SSRS. Perhaps Chopra. For more finsihed works. Look at the holy tradition. Was each master a clone of his master? Hardly, it seems. What is passed down is consciousness awakened to itself. Content is not the thing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Moreover, it's the process of surrender itself, I should think, that does most of the work of structuring freedom. This discussion, and Judy's point (everyone's collectively, really) brough to mind the passage from the Gita (Gita scholars chime in here) where it says (paraphrased) ...better to die in one's own dharma than trying to take on the dharma of another... I know that this has really had to come into play in my own life, realizing that all that I took and and tried to be via my long years with the TM org were attempts at living someone elses vision of how my life should be lived. Well said. It's definitely an issue. One teacher I worked with (and later, here, TomT) suggested that the keyword when trying to absorb the good qualities of someone inspiring is appreciation. One doesn't try to *emulate* the behavior, or the modes of thinking, or the belief system of the person being appreciated. One doesn't *have* to. The mechanics of mind-modeling are all in the appreciation. It doesn't even require surrender. One does not have to surrender to the other person to appreciate their good qualities; it suffices to appreciate them. That, in my experience, seems to be the key to allowing them to develop in oneself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
Judy, I did not think your point was the taking on of the dharma of another, but I do think there are some similarities between attuning one's mind/consciousness to the mind/consciousness of another, whether or not the intent is the taking on of their dharma. I don't see how the two cannot become commingled once one attunes one mind/consciousness to that of another. Re: your second point, I have tried, with some degree of success, to look at the 20+ years within the TM org. as a learning experience. There's certainly nothing I can do to recapture any of them. It still seems such a shame that so many intelligent, well-meaning people spent so many years of their lives, some are still deeply entrenched, and end up, after so many years, with little to show for the years. And I'm not even talking about anything fancy, I'm talking the very basics, such as a decent place to live, a decent car to get around, the ability to pay for repairs as needed. Even more, though, as many of us are now in our late 50s (and beyone) I'm talking about the ability to go out of life with some dignity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: That's my impression too. The point isn't to absorb the teacher's qualities of *mind* but his/her qualities of *consciousness*. Moreover, it's the process of surrender itself, I should think, that does most of the work of structuring freedom. This discussion, and Judy's point (everyone's collectively, really) brough to mind the passage from the Gita (Gita scholars chime in here) where it says (paraphrased) ...better to die in one's own dharma than trying to take on the dharma of another... (Just to clarify, taking on the dharma of another isn't what I was talking about above. I don't think that's what MMY was doing with Guru Dev at all.) I know that this has really had to come into play in my own life, realizing that all that I took and and tried to be via my long years with the TM org were attempts at living someone elses vision of how my life should be lived. And I've seen this struggle in so many others. Some have successfully managed to imbibe qualites/ways of living that, initially, seemed so alien, and they truly made them their own. Others, like me, strained to be a certain way and in many ways it backfired. I feel like I wasted years of my life, from age 30-40, knowing and experiencing my life as anything but a success but unwilling/unable to escape from the deep rut I had dug myself into from taking on a massive belief system that clearly wasn't working but which I clung to in the hopes I was wrong and any second now it was going to work. This never happened until I decided to get out and even then (15+ years ago) and now, I struggle with the whole thing. Can you look at it as a learning experience? It sounds like you're blaming yourself. Is that what the struggling part is about now? That seems to me to be more of a waste than sincerely having tried to make a go of a way of life that felt as though it made sense at the time. Ricks example of those around him now I think is false. They are works in progress. Better examples are SSRS. Perhaps Chopra. For more finsihed works. Look at the holy tradition. Was each master a clone of his master? Hardly, it seems. What is passed down is consciousness awakened to itself. Content is not the thing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, I did not think your point was the taking on of the dharma of another, OK, I wasn't sure. but I do think there are some similarities between attuning one's mind/consciousness to the mind/consciousness of another, whether or not the intent is the taking on of their dharma. I don't see how the two cannot become commingled once one attunes one mind/consciousness to that of another. I'm sure that *can* happen, but my guess is that if it's done right, it doesn't. I should think that since the whole process is about giving up one's own will, it rules out what's involved in taking on someone else's dharma; the two seem to me to be incompatible. Re: your second point, I have tried, with some degree of success, to look at the 20+ years within the TM org. as a learning experience. There's certainly nothing I can do to recapture any of them. It still seems such a shame that so many intelligent, well- meaning people spent so many years of their lives, some are still deeply entrenched, and end up, after so many years, with little to show for the years. And I'm not even talking about anything fancy, I'm talking the very basics, such as a decent place to live, a decent car to get around, the ability to pay for repairs as needed. Even more, though, as many of us are now in our late 50s (and beyone) I'm talking about the ability to go out of life with some dignity. Well, I certainly wish you the best in attaining that dignity, whether it's via material support or inner strength and tranquility, or preferably both. It's just that in my own experience, the less I dwell on what a shame this or that was in my life, the more resources I have to face whatever is going on now. But I don't think it hurts to vent on occasion! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Gita-death in one's own dharma (was Re: Mind Modelling)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Judy, I did not think your point was the taking on of the dharma of another, OK, I wasn't sure. but I do think there are some similarities between attuning one's mind/consciousness to the mind/consciousness of another, whether or not the intent is the taking on of their dharma. I don't see how the two cannot become commingled once one attunes one mind/consciousness to that of another. I'm sure that *can* happen, but my guess is that if it's done right, it doesn't. I should think that since the whole process is about giving up one's own will, it rules out what's involved in taking on someone else's dharma; the two seem to me to be incompatible. Re: your second point, I have tried, with some degree of success, to look at the 20+ years within the TM org. as a learning experience. There's certainly nothing I can do to recapture any of them. It still seems such a shame that so many intelligent, well- meaning people spent so many years of their lives, some are still deeply entrenched, and end up, after so many years, with little to show for the years. And I'm not even talking about anything fancy, I'm talking the very basics, such as a decent place to live, a decent car to get around, the ability to pay for repairs as needed. Even more, though, as many of us are now in our late 50s (and beyone) I'm talking about the ability to go out of life with some dignity. Well, I certainly wish you the best in attaining that dignity, whether it's via material support or inner strength and tranquility, or preferably both. It's just that in my own experience, the less I dwell on what a shame this or that was in my life, the more resources I have to face whatever is going on now. But I don't think it hurts to vent on occasion! There were many implicit and explicit promises made and many other carrots dangled. The movement leaned hard on devotion and service to the nobelest of causes. In light of recertification and rajas, some of it is much less ethical than the nastiest of business scandals. The venting is a minor thing, for sure. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
