[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd So you think that Maharishi in Maharishi Tower refers to MMY? If Maharishi Tower refers to the planned world's tallest building, then yes of course this refers to MMY. The TMO has promoted this plan for a couple yrs now and it's common knowledge to anyone who is connected to the TMO or receives their literature. Except that MMY insists that Maharishi is a title, and that use of it implies certain things. Other organizations in India have named universities after maharishis and they use the name as well as the title. WHy wouldn't this one, if it was merely to honor MMY? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd So you think that Maharishi in Maharishi Tower refers to MMY? We can bet. I bet 10 Dollar that I am right. Ingegerd And you'd lose the bet according to MMY. I take him at his word, but you don't, I guess. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd So you think that Maharishi in Maharishi Tower refers to MMY? If Maharishi Tower refers to the planned world's tallest building, then yes of course this refers to MMY. The TMO has promoted this plan for a couple yrs now and it's common knowledge to anyone who is connected to the TMO or receives their literature. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd So you think that Maharishi in Maharishi Tower refers to MMY? We can bet. I bet 10 Dollar that I am right. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the people within the Grand Gesture groups often tend to reserve their feeling of performing selfless service *for* the Grand Gestures. They scrimp and save to be able to donate to the big fundraising projects for the Grand Gestures. But at the same time, they *rarely* seem to put much energy into the *daily* performance of selfless service in terms of doing the best they can for the people whom they interact with in their lives. Sometimes it seems that the Grand Gestures are a way to *fool* the people in the organizations into believing that they're actually creating good karma and doing something good in the world, while they spend the majority of their everyday lives looking down on the people they meet and treating them with disdain, and from a platform of moral and spiritual superiority. Then you've got the folks like the Buddhist monks I used to meet in Santa Fe, who use their *everyday lives* as the vehicle for selfless service. Every person they meet is looked upon as an opportunity to put some energy back into the system, to do good for others. The difference is profound to witness and experience. It's an overgeneralization, but I think it's to some extent an accurate one. Me, I tend to prefer being around the people who walk the walk of the spiritual life on a daily basis rather than the ones who save up their good works for the occasional Grand Gesture. The Rama trip was all about Grand Gestures, and it wound up creating a group of people who put a lot of money into teaching meditation for free, but who treated the people they worked with and the people they ran into on the streets like shit. I've cer- tainly seen the same thing in the TMO. And then there were the traditions I've encountered since who put their focus on treating everyone they met with respect and trying to do their best for them, and allowed the Grand Gestures to take care of themselves. Just a pre-coffee rap... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the people within the Grand Gesture groups often tend to reserve their feeling of performing selfless service *for* the Grand Gestures. They scrimp and save to be able to donate to the big fundraising projects for the Grand Gestures. But at the same time, they *rarely* seem to put much energy into the *daily* performance of selfless service in terms of doing the best they can for the people whom they interact with in their lives. Sometimes it seems that the Grand Gestures are a way to *fool* the people in the organizations into
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. Pretty fascinating quote, Mark. Because one of my hobbies or fascinations is comparative religion / comparitive spirituality, I've seen this scenario work itself out dozens of times. On the other hand, I have seen traditions *avoid* this scenario. They started clean and they ended clean. By ended I mean the primary teacher died, and no serious disintegration of the organization occured until long after the teacher died. The latter give me hope. But I do not expect the TM movement to be one of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating everyone one encounters during the day with respect, doing their best for them, stuff like that. The former (the Grand Gesture traditions) on the whole *don't* seem to think of selfless service as something that you do all day, every day, on a personal and interpersonal level. I've noticed that the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
MMY will be remembered for his monumental success for what he did and his monumental failure for what he could have done. --- Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in India Gulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDT CHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing: Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru. This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him. As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power... When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy. This announcement has retriggered for me something I was thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the good works they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings, saving the world, enlightening all of humanity, etc.) and then there are the traditions and organizations that think smaller. The latter, when it comes to selfless service and putting energy back into the system, tend to think in terms of treating
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Works. Whoever put this up on the Web couldn't spell. :-) Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
markmeredith2002 wrote: Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. C. Northcote Parkinson, In _Parkinson's Law_, points out that institutions do their really important work in makeshift quarters. By the time they get around to building edifices to themselves, their real work is done. From the book: A perfection of planned layout [of a building] is achieved only by institutions on the point of collapse. ... During a period of exciting discovery or progress there is no time to plan the perfect headquarters. The time for that comes later, when all the important work has been done. Perfection, we know, is finality; and finality is death. He cites many examples, including the Palace of Versailles, completed just as the decline of Louis's power had begun, and the British colonial capital of New Delhi, into which Lord Irwin moved in 1929, just as the Indian Congress demanded independence. In the United States we can think of our own Capital, not completed until nearly four score and seven years after the Declaration of Independence; and the Pentagon, completed at the end of World War II. The Sears Tower rose as that company's empire fell to Wal-Mart and all the other stores that now dominate retailing. Think of all the vaastu-compliant buildings built by now-closed businesses in Fairfield. For all of you laboring in cramped, inadequate quarters, be thankful. - Patrick Gillam To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. I met a traveler from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whos frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal these words appear: My name is Ozymandius, king of kings: Look on my words, ye Mighty, and despair! Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. Ozymandius, by Percy Bysshe Shelley Beautiful! Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
I think he'll be remembered as the foremost guru example of the Napolean complex. - Original Message - From: Peter To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building) MMY will be remembered for his monumental success forwhat he did and his monumental failure for what hecould have done.--- Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, George DeForest[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yahoo! Alerts Yahoo! News - My Alerts - Edit Alert Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5: 13 PM PDT World's tallest tower planned in IndiaGulf Daily News Wed, 27 Jul 2005 4:00 PM PDTCHICAGO: A 224-storey pyramid shaped building, the tallest in the world, is being built at Katangi, near Indian city of Jabalpur in Madhya Pradesh state. Good post Turquoise. The book "The Guru Papers" mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. I don't agree with all of Kramer's hypothesis in that book, but feel it is worth discussing:"Most cults follow a predictable progression of two distinct stages, which indicates that what is involved is more a function of how authoritarian structures work than of the particular teachings of a given guru.This first stage is messianic with the message being that all labors of the organization, including the guru's, are aimed at a higher purpose beyond the group, such as saving mankind. During this phase the guru is confident that he will eventually be acknowledged as the one who will lead the world out of darkness. The major emphasis is on proselytizing to bring in new converts. The continual increase in numbers satisfies the guru's need for power and adulation. While there is still hope of becoming the acknowledged herald of a new order, he remains happy and relatively behing in his treatment of those who have surrendered to him.As long as the guru still sees the possibility of realizing his ambitions, the way he exercises power is through rewarding the enthusisams of his followers with praise and positions in his hierarchy. He also whets and manipulates desire by offering carrots and promising that through him the disciples' desires will be realized, possibly even in this lifetime. The group itself becomes an echo of the guru, with the members filling each other's needs. Everthing seems perfect: everyone is moving along the appropriate spiritual path. The guru is relatively accessible, charming, even fun. All dreams are realizable, even wonderful possibilities beyond one's ken. A time inevitably comes when the popularity and power of the group plateaus and then begins to wane. Eventually it becomes obvious that the guru is not going to take over the world, at least not in the immediate future. When the realization comes that humanity is too stupid or blind to acknowledge that higher authority and wisdom of the guru, the apocalyptic phase enters and the party is over. Then one of two things generally happens: the first is that the guru's message turns pessimistic or doomsday ... The other possibility is that in order to attract more people, the guru makes increasingly extreme promises and bizarre claims that offer occult powers, quick enlightenment, or even wish fulfillment in the mundane sphere around wealth, love, and power...When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. This includes monuments or temples, buildings, model communities and learning centers... Often he consciously or unconsciously blames those around him for the failure of his messianic aspirations. This stage commonly results in scandal and tragedy." This announcement has retriggered for me something Iwas thinking about last week. It seems to me, as part of my ongoing study of different spiritual traditions, that they tend to fall into two broad categories with regard to the "good works" they choose to perform. There are the traditions or organizations that think in terms of Grand Gestures (big flashy buildings,
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he'll be remembered as the foremost guru example of the Napolean complex. Personally, I don't think he'll be remembered as the foremost *anything*. Just another guru in a world full of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems that some Kings and Emperors and Dictators are afraid to be forgotten when they die, so they build something in the world to be remembered. When the tallest building in India is finished,everyone will remember MMY and forget all the TM-Teachers and devoted Meditators and Sidhas that with their work and economical support made it possible. Ingegerd So you think that Maharishi in Maharishi Tower refers to MMY? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Grand Gestures (was Re: MMY still plans worlds tallest building)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: markmeredith2002 wrote: Good post Turquoise. The book The Guru Papers mentions how gurus often come up with gradiose plans near the end of their mission -- a few relevant paragraphs are quoted below. When the guru realizes that most people are not going to acknowledge him, he often compensates, if he can afford it, by building monumental edifices that proclaim his greatness. C. Northcote Parkinson, In _Parkinson's Law_, points out that institutions do their really important work in makeshift quarters. By the time they get around to building edifices to themselves, their real work is done. From the book: Counter example: any large and growing hospital. Another: any large and growing educational instutite. Another: any business that is still growing *after* it moves into its new and improved headquarters. Apple Computer and just about any other sucessful business that survived the transition from garage- based to publicly held. Sheesh. What a silly premise. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
