Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name) on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. But who prevails ? Maharishi obviously is so strongly protected that unknown (at least to me) levels of intelligence tells him where and when to be present. There was a phase in Switzerland when all kinds of things were happening to him and he went into hiding in his room for a month. He got a bad shock from a faulty tape recorder, his driver hit a motorcyclist, and worst of all, his helicopter crashed. He was banged up a bit in that one. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name) on 7/1/06 8:34 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Another possibility, which Im open to, is that at his stage of evolution celibacy made no difference, but he needed to recommend it to his students. Would he have been able to explain that point to them? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. What proof do you have that the CIA was after MMY? But who prevails ? Maharishi obviously is so strongly protected that unknown (at least to me) levels of intelligence tells him where and when to be present. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at nablus108@ wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. What proof do you have that the CIA was after MMY? I believe it MMY himself who said the CIA was after him. I heard that the windows of passageways in Seelisberg were covered with paper so that no one could see people and MMY moving about inside the building. But who prevails ? Maharishi obviously is so strongly protected that unknown (at least to me) levels of intelligence tells him where and when to be present. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What proof do you have that the CIA was after MMY? I believe it MMY himself who said the CIA was after him. I heard that the windows of passageways in Seelisberg were covered with paper so that no one could see people and MMY moving about inside the building. The latter is true, i saw it. Kind of errie. But I don't remember him specifically attributing that to the CIA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/1/06 8:34 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Another possibility, which I¹m open to, is that at his stage of evolution celibacy made no difference, but he needed to recommend it to his students. Would he have been able to explain that point to them? I'm not certain how this fits in here but what you said, above, broguth this to mind. There are many stories in various aspects of the vedic literature, probably the puranas, of these guys who go off to the forest, practice celibacy, and other forms or austerities for many years, build up great spiritual reserve, get boons granted to them, then some celestial nymph comes along and tempts them and in one moment they lose all the spiritual potency they took so long to achieve. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name) on 7/3/06 12:55 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/1/06 8:34 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Another possibility, which Im open to, is that at his stage of evolution celibacy made no difference, but he needed to recommend it to his students. Would he have been able to explain that point to them? I'm not certain how this fits in here but what you said, above, broguth this to mind. Broguth - Plu perfect subjunctive participle of to bring - Strunk Archer __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at nablus108@ wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. What proof do you have that the CIA was after MMY? I believe it MMY himself who said the CIA was after him. I heard that the windows of passageways in Seelisberg were covered with paper so that no one could see people and MMY moving about inside the building. Actually, during the Carter administration, the US government WAS out to get him and the TMO specifically. What get actually means, who can say, but Carter was very definitely anti-TM and is now known to have used the US government to go after hindu influences in this country. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 7/3/06 12:55 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife% 40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer groups@ wrote: on 7/1/06 8:34 AM, Patrick Gillam at jpgillam@ wrote: Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Another possibility, which I¹m open to, is that at his stage of evolution celibacy made no difference, but he needed to recommend it to his students. Would he have been able to explain that point to them? I'm not certain how this fits in here but what you said, above, broguth this to mind. ³Broguth² - Plu perfect subjunctive participle of ³to bring² - Strunk Archer Wouldn't that be 'had brogthu'? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
In a message dated 7/3/06 10:16:42 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. I never heard this, any details? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: on 7/2/06 9:00 AM, nablus108 at nablus108@ wrote: Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. What proof do you have that the CIA was after MMY? I believe it MMY himself who said the CIA was after him. I heard that the windows of passageways in Seelisberg were covered with paper so that no one could see people and MMY moving about inside the building. Uh, that's not proof; it's paranoia But who prevails ? Maharishi obviously is so strongly protected that unknown (at least to me) levels of intelligence tells him where and when to be present. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Personally, I always thought that Maharishi should have kept his message as simple as it first started out-twenty minutes twice per day then go about living your normal life, no change in lifestyle required (yes I know, this is where people will say, well you didn't have to choose to add everything else), 200% of life--100% inner + 100% outer, etc. We used to tell people at intro lectures that the great thing about TM was that you didn't even have to believe in it, which, of course you still don't, but we also used to say that it was not a lifestyle. It was a fairly innocent message with a smack of Hinduism which made it all the more delicious during that era. [snip] He'd actually have a movement today had he done the above. Now, it's no longer a movement despite having many people involved. It's not a movement because it isn't moving or going anywhere...no new people are joining. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Thanks, I don't believe MMY is invincible, either, on the basis of my experiment in the late 70's. At that time, the SRM lease was up at the old brick building on Santa Monica Blvd; and Charlie Lutes moved into an office at the West L.A. TM center down the road toward Santa Monica. Having learned that a powerful Santeria sorcerer from Cuba named El Negro was traveling through Mexico, I was able to meet him in Tijuana. To test MMY's level of invincibility, I paid the Sorcerer to place a hex on MMY; and after giving El Negro some pics of MMY, left Tijuana and returned to L.A. A few days later I saw Charlie at the West L.A. TM center and in due course of conversation, he told me that MMY was taking very extraordinary precautions to pretect himself by being surrounded physically by numerous people. To the best of my knowledge, no harm came to MMY; but on the basis of the results, I don't feel he's invincible. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The most devoted followers are always going to try to emulate the master every way they can, no matter what the master says or doesn't say. And they're all going to have some idea of what constitutes good behavior. I think to some extent the conundrum is unavoidable. Agreed. I've told the story before how Rudolf Steiner, upon removing a pebble from his shoe, said, I need to do this right away, otherwise all my students will be walking with limps tomorrow. (paraphrased, of course) You paid someone to put a spell on Maharishi ? How stupid can anyone become ? Regarding Maharishis invincebility: his plane was blown up (Maharishi just did'nt turn up but called the pilots and told them to get out quickly), armed men have been found in Sonnenberg. And thats just the tip of the iceberg after that peanutfarmer/fundamentalist Jimmy Carter sent the CIA after him. But who prevails ? Maharishi obviously is so strongly protected that unknown (at least to me) levels of intelligence tells him where and when to be present. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- authfriend wrote: --- Gillam wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Well, I wasn't there, obviously. But what the hell else could he say under the circumstances if he really thought the guys he was speaking to ought to be celibate for the sake of their evolution? I'm not condoning his illicit sexual behavior, given his position, but I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right term for what he told the guys. I see the nuance, and his conundrum. Given the lame nature of his relationships - maybe 30 minutes of nooky time at the end of the work day now and again - he probably didn't perceive himself as being in a relationship. I'm not trying to rationalize his behavior. I'm just assuming he was able to rationalize it himself. I had a spell some years ago when I enjoyed a cigar or two on the weekend. After about six months of this, I was looking at an insurance form that asked, Have you used any tobacco products in the past six months? If so, I had to pay the smoker's rate for insurance. At that point I realized, Oh my God. I'm a smoker. Before that, I never thought of myself as a smoker. It wasn't part of my identity. I was just enjoying a cigar or two on the weekend. Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Gillam wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Well, I wasn't there, obviously. But what the hell else could he say under the circumstances if he really thought the guys he was speaking to ought to be celibate for the sake of their evolution? I'm not condoning his illicit sexual behavior, given his position, but I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right term for what he told the guys. I see the nuance, and his conundrum. Given the lame nature of his relationships - maybe 30 minutes of nooky time at the end of the work day now and again - he probably didn't perceive himself as being in a relationship. I'm not trying to rationalize his behavior. I'm just assuming he was able to rationalize it himself. I had a spell some years ago when I enjoyed a cigar or two on the weekend. After about six months of this, I was looking at an insurance form that asked, Have you used any tobacco products in the past six months? If so, I had to pay the smoker's rate for insurance. At that point I realized, Oh my God. I'm a smoker. Before that, I never thought of myself as a smoker. It wasn't part of my identity. I was just enjoying a cigar or two on the weekend. Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Certainly possible. What I had in mind was more that, assuming he genuinely thought it would be better for their spiritual development if they stayed celibate, introducing any potential cause for confusion over that instruction (How come he can and we can't? Is he really enlightened if he isn't celibate? etc. etc.) could inhibit their development, so he was essentially telling a lie for *their* benefit. Ends justifying the means and all that, clearly a rationalization and not the ideal we'd like to see by any means, but not hypocrisy per se. I wonder how often that kind of conundrum--not just about sex but any bad habit or behavior--masters have to deal with, pretending they don't indulge in that habit or behavior because they perceive (accurately or not) that to do otherwise would confuse their followers and get in the way of their sadhana. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- authfriend wrote: I wonder how often that kind of conundrum--not just about sex but any bad habit or behavior--masters have to deal with, pretending they don't indulge in that habit or behavior because they perceive (accurately or not) that to do otherwise would confuse their followers and get in the way of their sadhana. Maybe the solution would be for the master to promote his or her sadhana as a single element one adds to one's daily routine, rather than insisting students give up this behavior or adopt that one. Teaching, say, a meditation technique alone, without all the concomitant lifestyle stuff - diets, sexual protocols and such - would free the master from having to exemplify the ideal lifestyle. But what master has ever taken such a tack? It would be bold indeed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Gillam wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Well, I wasn't there, obviously. But what the hell else could he say under the circumstances if he really thought the guys he was speaking to ought to be celibate for the sake of their evolution? I'm not condoning his illicit sexual behavior, given his position, but I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right term for what he told the guys. I see the nuance, and his conundrum. Given the lame nature of his relationships - maybe 30 minutes of nooky time at the end of the work day now and again - he probably didn't perceive himself as being in a relationship. I'm not trying to rationalize his behavior. I'm just assuming he was able to rationalize it himself. I had a spell some years ago when I enjoyed a cigar or two on the weekend. After about six months of this, I was looking at an insurance form that asked, Have you used any tobacco products in the past six months? If so, I had to pay the smoker's rate for insurance. At that point I realized, Oh my God. I'm a smoker. Before that, I never thought of myself as a smoker. It wasn't part of my identity. I was just enjoying a cigar or two on the weekend. Maybe Maharishi had the same delusion I did. Just as I thought I was essentially a non-smoker even as I puffed away at my La Unicas, he was able to think he was celibate when he dallying with his gopis. Certainly possible. What I had in mind was more that, assuming he genuinely thought it would be better for their spiritual development if they stayed celibate, introducing any potential cause for confusion over that instruction (How come he can and we can't? Is he really enlightened if he isn't celibate? etc. etc.) could inhibit their development, so he was essentially telling a lie for *their* benefit. Ends justifying the means and all that, clearly a rationalization and not the ideal we'd like to see by any means, but not hypocrisy per se. I wonder how often that kind of conundrum--not just about sex but any bad habit or behavior--masters have to deal with, pretending they don't indulge in that habit or behavior because they perceive (accurately or not) that to do otherwise would confuse their followers and get in the way of their sadhana. I recall being in an airport once with a couple of fellow sidhas while a bunch of Japanese assured us that their teacher, who was calmly smoking a cigarette in the corner, was the greatest living Zen master... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: I wonder how often that kind of conundrum--not just about sex but any bad habit or behavior--masters have to deal with, pretending they don't indulge in that habit or behavior because they perceive (accurately or not) that to do otherwise would confuse their followers and get in the way of their sadhana. Maybe the solution would be for the master to promote his or her sadhana as a single element one adds to one's daily routine, rather than insisting students give up this behavior or adopt that one. Teaching, say, a meditation technique alone, without all the concomitant lifestyle stuff - diets, sexual protocols and such - would free the master from having to exemplify the ideal lifestyle. But what master has ever taken such a tack? It would be bold indeed. MMY did at first, then he changed his mind. But he was talking to teachers here, no? Not the rank and file. The most devoted followers are always going to try to emulate the master every way they can, no matter what the master says or doesn't say. And they're all going to have some idea of what constitutes good behavior. I think to some extent the conundrum is unavoidable. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: I wonder how often that kind of conundrum--not just about sex but any bad habit or behavior--masters have to deal with, pretending they don't indulge in that habit or behavior because they perceive (accurately or not) that to do otherwise would confuse their followers and get in the way of their sadhana. Maybe the solution would be for the master to promote his or her sadhana as a single element one adds to one's daily routine, rather than insisting students give up this behavior or adopt that one. Teaching, say, a meditation technique alone, without all the concomitant lifestyle stuff - diets, sexual protocols and such - would free the master from having to exemplify the ideal lifestyle. But what master has ever taken such a tack? It would be bold indeed. MMY did at first, then he changed his mind. Personally, I always thought that Maharishi should have kept his message as simple as it first started out-twenty minutes twice per day then go about living your normal life, no change in lifestyle required (yes I know, this is where people will say, well you didn't have to choose to add everything else), 200% of life--100% inner + 100% outer, etc. We used to tell people at intro lectures that the great thing about TM was that you didn't even have to believe in it, which, of course you still don't, but we also used to say that it was not a lifestyle. It was a fairly innocent message with a smack of Hinduism which made it all the more delicious during that era. But he was talking to teachers here, no? Not the rank and file. The most devoted followers are always going to try to emulate the master every way they can, no matter what the master says or doesn't say. And they're all going to have some idea of what constitutes good behavior. I think to some extent the conundrum is unavoidable. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- authfriend wrote: The most devoted followers are always going to try to emulate the master every way they can, no matter what the master says or doesn't say. And they're all going to have some idea of what constitutes good behavior. I think to some extent the conundrum is unavoidable. Agreed. I've told the story before how Rudolf Steiner, upon removing a pebble from his shoe, said, I need to do this right away, otherwise all my students will be walking with limps tomorrow. (paraphrased, of course) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--Thanks, I don't believe MMY is invincible, either, on the basis of my experiment in the late 70's. At that time, the SRM lease was up at the old brick building on Santa Monica Blvd; and Charlie Lutes moved into an office at the West L.A. TM center down the road toward Santa Monica. Having learned that a powerful Santeria sorcerer from Cuba named El Negro was traveling through Mexico, I was able to meet him in Tijuana. To test MMY's level of invincibility, I paid the Sorcerer to place a hex on MMY; and after giving El Negro some pics of MMY, left Tijuana and returned to L.A. A few days later I saw Charlie at the West L.A. TM center and in due course of conversation, he told me that MMY was taking very extraordinary precautions to pretect himself by being surrounded physically by numerous people. To the best of my knowledge, no harm came to MMY; but on the basis of the results, I don't feel he's invincible. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The most devoted followers are always going to try to emulate the master every way they can, no matter what the master says or doesn't say. And they're all going to have some idea of what constitutes good behavior. I think to some extent the conundrum is unavoidable. Agreed. I've told the story before how Rudolf Steiner, upon removing a pebble from his shoe, said, I need to do this right away, otherwise all my students will be walking with limps tomorrow. (paraphrased, of course) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
On Jul 1, 2006, at 12:27 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Well, I wasn't there, obviously. But what the hell else could he say under the circumstances if he really thought the guys he was speaking to ought to be celibate for the sake of their evolution? I'm not condoning his illicit sexual behavior, given his position, but I'm not sure "hypocrisy" is the right term for what he told the guys. What "term" would you like to edit in authfriend? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Buddha shakyamuni Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Hypocrisy (was Re: Maharishi's name)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 1, 2006, at 12:27 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- Rick wrote: If ever the topic of women or sex came up, he would feign ignorance, and would encourage single guys to be celibate, like him. And you see this as hypocrisy? (Butting in) Looks that way to me. How would you interpret it, Judy? Genuinely curious. I'm not good at this sort of perception. Well, I wasn't there, obviously. But what the hell else could he say under the circumstances if he really thought the guys he was speaking to ought to be celibate for the sake of their evolution? I'm not condoning his illicit sexual behavior, given his position, but I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right term for what he told the guys. What term would you like to edit in authfriend? Are you unfamiliar with the term term? I'm wondering why you put scare quotes around it. And it's not editing in, sorry. Check the original, please. (Did you decide whether Peter was having delusions of grandeur? snicker) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
