[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Barry, seeking a more modern template for this 'devotion', I'd call it role playing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea wrote: Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 I can certainly understand the humor you found in this situation. :-) In my post I was trying to find some in the WHOLE CONCEPT of these fertilizer words associated with TM advanced techniques. Since we all know now (despite the efforts of obfuscators on this forum) what these fertilizer words MEAN, as well as the Hindu gods and goddesses that the original TM bija mantras are assoc- iated with, we can easily come up with a MEANING for this mantra. And I think that if people can step back from their TM indoctrination long enough, they might be able to find some humor in the situation as we have. Let me use an example to illustrate my point. Suppose you were seeking a boon or a favor from some famous person. But suppose that *in order to gain that person's favors* they required you to address them as (using a timely example): Glorious glorious Miley Cyrus, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Doesn't quite sit right, does it? I mean, who does this Miley Cyrus babe *think she is*, to expect to be addressed thusly? Even more, would you really *want* a favor or boon from some- one so petty and so ego-driven as to *expect* to be addressed that way and treated that way? Now do a simple word substitution, and see what TMers have *no problem* thinking many times a day (goddess chosen from the original mantra example being discussed) in their advanced technique practice: Glorious glorious Saraswat1, I bow down to you, I bow down to you! Oh, but you may say, Hey! Foul! It's not fair to compare a *goddess* to Miley Cyrus. Isn't it? If you bristle at Miley Cyrus feeling as if she should be addressed that way to grant you a favor (say, an autograph), how is that so different than goddess Saraswati expecting to be addressed that way to grant you the favor of transcendence, or enlightenment? I think it's a Good Thing to step back from the conditioning every so often, and look at things from a different point of view, devoid of the explanations (thought stoppers you've been told about them in the past. Things are *funnier* that way, and we all need a little funny in our lives. :-) :-) :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Barry, I had this extra experience of becoming TM teacher two times. The first time I was only 20, and became only a student initiator, so I got only mantras 1-9. 4 years later I became full initiator, had to rehearse all the teaching material, and then got the full teacher initiation together with all others, now getting mantras 10-16. This in itself was a revelation, for as we got the student mantras 1-8, we got this extra mantra, 9, with which we could initiate in exceptional cases elder persons, that is any age beyond what we were usually allowed to teach. Now I learned that 9 was just the next mantra, assigned to the next age range. While listening to Maharishi pronouncing and explaining this on tape, you write this all down on a paper, and have three days to memorize them, and then must destroy the paper. Hearing and learning the new mantras, I couldn't get this song out of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnNzDzPzI44 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
TurquoiseB: I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? It actually IS, and I do mean this in a rather positive way. The real innovation in TM is the packaging. It's in the language. None of the essential elements that constitute TM as a technique is new at all: the mantras are the well known Tantric mantras as used in the Shri Vidya for example. The element of effortlessness and spontaneity is there in a number of other meditation techniques as well, otherwise, where does the term Sahaja come from? But mostly those other traditions, who emphasize this spontaneity and effortlessness, rely on some kind of transmission like in Dzogchen or on shaktipath. The idea to go with the mind rather than against it, is essentially present in all tantric teachings. The idea of momentary transcendence is there in Kashmere Shaivism as the teaching of turya between two thoughts. What is innovative, is the packaging of it AS a singular meditation technique, stripped from religious language and connotations. Substituting religious language with more western scientific - (pseudo)- jargon. The language of a rediscovered lost ancient technique that is unique and effective for the householder is instead not innovative but typical sales pitch. Because 'effective for the householder' is true for all tantric teachings. What is innovative is, that Maharishi came from a monastic orthodox tradition, and utilized it's tantric elements to open it up to something entirely different. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Merudanda wrote: May it be allowed to question with all due respect, kowtow and hand kisses to my Lady of the Lake Jude your references. You mentioning as a source for Dr.Domash article your battleground where you fought so brave for purity and integrity...when there is the article as a whole available at mum. I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry. Oh my dear , let us consider with Lawrence Domash that the degree of consciousness may be related to the degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awarenessand therefore related our degree of long-range spatial and temporal comprehension and awareness to the wholeness of the article and it in devotion so brilliantly described implication. , not forgetting the context,too. The introductionMaharishi Mahesh Yogi and the Transcendental Meditation Program: A New Direction for Scientific Research continues with: It would be shortsighted, however, to believe that Maharishi will be regarded in the future merely as the man who introduced to science a certain new or revived relaxation technique with a variety of measurable effects. Rather, it seems certain that he will properly come to be regarded as the man who changed the entire scope and direction of scientific research by compelling science to recognize in its own terms and by its own methods the existence and reality of a new state of consciousness. This is the real discovery, of which the Transcendental Meditation technique itself is actually a technological application, and it is surely a development of much more far-reaching importance for scientific knowledge than all of the other great scientific advances of this century combined. It is to this point that we would like to devote the remainder of this introduction. and continues with: Implications of Research on the Transcendental Meditation Program http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm http://www.mum.edu/RelId/651822/ISvars/default/Maharishi-Mahesh-Yog.htm In editors note: – ..Also since that time, modern theoretical physics has further advanced a fundamental concept that Dr. Domash discusses in this essay, namely that there is a basic state of least excitation known as the ground state, or “vacuum state,” of any field, which Dr. Domash compares with the field of pure consciousness. Modern physics has now developed completely unified field theories, mathematical descriptions of a field of unity underlying all the diversity of the universe and uniting all the fundamental force and matter fields. At the time he wrote this essay, Dr. Domash was Chancellor of Maharishi European Research University, in Switzerland, and shortly thereafter became the second president of Maharishi International University (1977–1980). Objection Your Honour. Could they not give our Superradiancer-now-Floor sweeper Lawrence Domash more credit than ground state, or “vacuum state” formulation?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-) Some people here keep harping on the fact that TM was so elementary, kindergarten as you put it. Let's face it, how complicated can sitting down and meditating be - in any spiritual practice? I mean you put your butt on a flat surface and close your eyes. We're not talking splitting the atom with a razor blade blindfolded or running a marathon backwards. Now, granted, 20 mins. twice a day is pretty easy to stomach and certainly doesn't compare to the lifelong and continuous hours that many holy or spiritually-driven people devote themselves to year after year until they die (presumably of boredom). But the practice of TM itself is hardly kindergarten.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Maybe we should examine what Sri Vidya is: 'Knowledge that is structured in consciousness'. Does that ring a bell with anyone out there? Go figure. On 10/8/2013 8:19 AM, iranitea wrote: TurquoiseB: I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? It actually IS, and I do mean this in a rather positive way. The real innovation in TM is the packaging. It's in the language. None of the essential elements that constitute TM as a technique is new at all: the mantras are the well known Tantric mantras as used in the Shri Vidya for example. The element of effortlessness and spontaneity is there in a number of other meditation techniques as well, otherwise, where does the term Sahaja come from? But mostly those other traditions, who emphasize this spontaneity and effortlessness, rely on some kind of transmission like in Dzogchen or on shaktipath. The idea to go with the mind rather than against it, is essentially present in all tantric teachings. The idea of momentary transcendence is there in Kashmere Shaivism as the teaching of turya between two thoughts. What is innovative, is the packaging of it AS a singular meditation technique, stripped from religious language and connotations. Substituting religious language with more western scientific - (pseudo)- jargon. The language of a rediscovered lost ancient technique that is unique and effective for the householder is instead not innovative but typical sales pitch. Because 'effective for the householder' is true for all tantric teachings. What is innovative is, that Maharishi came from a monastic orthodox tradition, and utilized it's tantric elements to open it up to something entirely different. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: what about it was revolutionary? He wasn't the only Indian guru who came to the states and europe to promote his schtick you know. It was revolutionary in that he found a way to present a technique of meditation designed for beginners, as a mere starting point from which to explore more interesting techniques, as the end point of meditation itself. In other words, he presented a kindergarten level of meditation as the best, most effective form of meditation on the planet, and convinced millions of people it was true. I'd call the chutzpah of that pretty revolutionary, wouldn't you? :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
From what I've read, SBS's student Hariharananda Saraswati, otherwise known as the Karpatri Swam, was a great Sri Vidya adherent. So, if SBS was not a Sri Vidya adherent where do you suppose the Karpatri Swami learned the Sri Vidya, if not from SBS? Apparently this information is not covered by Domash or Mason. Nobody in the TMO apparently wants to talk about where the Saraswati bija mantra came from. Go figure. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri On 10/7/2013 4:42 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Seraphita, if you're interested in what Maharishi wanted known about the origins of Transcendental Meditation (i.e., the specific technique he taught), see here (it's a 1993 post from the Usenet newsgroup alt.meditation.transcendental, now archived on Google Groups): http://tinyurl.com/34bras The post contains the first half of the introductory essay by Larry Domash to the first volume of the Collected Papers (research studies on TM, published in 1975). The whole thing (that is, the whole first half) is of interest, but Domash gets to the nitty-gritty about the origins of TM in the paragraph beginning As an unusually talented student... if you want to skip the background. Rick Archer has said he was present when Domash read the essay to Maharishi for his approval, so we can be pretty sure it reflects the account Maharishi wanted told. (Whether it's 100 percent accurate is anyone's guess.) It doesn't exactly answer your question, but it seems clear that Maharishi didn't simply parrot the meditation instructions given by Guru Dev (or at least didn't want that to be the story). Seraphita wrote to Richard: So if I'm following your post correctly that means Guru Dev's own initiation into meditation was essentially an initiation into transcendental meditation (before it had that name obviously) - just like you and me! Would that have been just a beginner's technique which he would later have abandoned? And, if so, are there details of what his later practice was?
