Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

The level of insight you display clearly shows you have allowed a human mind to 
become mesmerized by the likes of hucksters such as Marshy and Benjy Creme - 
maybe Maitrea will redeem you when he comes out of hiding.





 From: nablusoss1008 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 6:08 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> You are one stupid son of a bitch - most of the TM people I have known were 
> using some kind of recreational drugs before they learned TM - and you, as 
> most of my detractors here on FFL have reading comprehension problems - I 
> never said I was "under the influence of drugs" when I learned. 
> 
> I was stoned when I had the prep lecture - I made the 14 day requirement for 
> not doing dope 

Stoned or not stoned, we only have your word for it. The level of insight you 
display here indicates you most probably never learned the technique. 
Anyway my guess is that nobody here could care less.


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[wleed3]

I do NOT care 4 this garbage as well.



In a message dated 05/15/13 18:08:33 Eastern Daylight Time, 
no_re...@yahoogroups.com writes:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote: 
> 
> You are one stupid son of a bitch - most of the TM people I have known were 
> using some kind of recreational drugs before they learned TM - and you, as 
> most of my detractors here on FFL have reading comprehension problems - I 
> never said I was "under the influence of drugs" when I learned. 
> 
> I was stoned when I had the prep lecture - I made the 14 day requirement for 
> not doing dope 


Stoned or not stoned, we only have your word for it. The level of insight you 
display here indicates you most probably never learned the technique. 
Anyway my guess is that nobody here could care less. 



 

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[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> You are one stupid son of a bitch - most of the TM people I have known were 
> using some kind of recreational drugs before they learned TM - and you, as 
> most of my detractors here on FFL have reading comprehension problems - I 
> never said I was "under the influence of drugs" when I learned. 
> 
> I was stoned when I had the prep lecture - I made the 14 day requirement for 
> not doing dope 


Stoned or not stoned, we only have your word for it. The level of insight you 
display here indicates you most probably never learned the technique. 
Anyway my guess is that nobody here could care less.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

You are one stupid son of a bitch - most of the TM people I have known were 
using some kind of recreational drugs before they learned TM - and you, as most 
of my detractors here on FFL have reading comprehension problems - I never said 
I was "under the influence of drugs" when I learned. 

I was stoned when I had the prep lecture - I made the 14 day requirement for 
not doing dope - in fact I had not smoked pot for exactly 15 days before being 
initiated into TM - I then waited for 6 weeks before smoking pot on two 
occasions and never smoked pot again but once about 10 years later.

So I was not under the influence of drugs when I received my mantra. 

Your saying I never did TM properly is one of the standard TM bullshit 
responses to those who quit. Pretty lame for a technique that is supposed to be 
so easy. Instead of making absurd remarks about things you know nothing about, 
go read Mein Kampf, which I am sure is right next to your Marshy Gita.





 From: nablusoss1008 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 4:26 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Michael Jackson:
> > for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other
> > meditations out there.
> > 
> Well, for this to be true you would have to try ALL 
> meditation techniques. There is some doubt you even 
> know TM practice or basic yoga poses. Go figure.

Since that the poor fellow was under the influence of drugs (his own words) 
when he learned TM, IF he ever learned that is, it is likely that he never did 
TM in the correct way. 

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Michael Jackson:
> > for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other
> > meditations out there.
> > 
> Well, for this to be true you would have to try ALL 
> meditation techniques. There is some doubt you even 
> know TM practice or basic yoga poses. Go figure.


Since that the poor fellow was under the influence of drugs (his own words) 
when he learned TM, IF he ever learned that is, it is likely that he never did 
TM in the correct way. 

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

Michael Jackson:
> for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other
> meditations out there.
> 
Well, for this to be true you would have to try ALL 
meditation techniques. There is some doubt you even 
know TM practice or basic yoga poses. Go figure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Or, I guess it all depends on how you can define 
'meditation'.

Based on my recent visit to Sonoma, almost the entire 
northern half of California meditates using various 
breath awareness techniques or various yoga 
techniques.

According to the dictionary, meditation means simply 
'to think things over'. If so, then everyone 
meditates. 

There's probably not a person on the planet who 
doesn't pause once or twice a day to take stock of 
their mind contents.

And, we're all transcending - even without a specific 
technique. So, the question is: do you enjoy?

 
> > Can you think of another product with 
> > no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
> > has been around for fifty years, simply 
> > because of the marketing geniuses behind 
> > it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 
> 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

> > Let's play pretend:
> > 
> > Pretend that the AHA scientific statement brings about a 
> > slew of larger-scale studies designed the way this study was:
> > 
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686
> > 
> > Where good faith attempts were made to compensate for the 
> > fact that it is virtually impossible to conduct a "double-" 
> > blind study on meditation by ensuring that all test subjects 
> > had the same expectations.
> > 
> > Let us further pretend that these hypothetical studies show 
> > roughly the same thing:
> > 
> > on stress/health issues, TM comes in first, mindfulness 
> > practices second and concentrative practices third.
> > 
> > on mindfulness-related issues, mindfulness comes in first, 
> > TM second, and concentrative practices third.
> > 
> > Let us finally pretend that a large enough number of these 
> > studies are done in such  way that all the reviewers who 
> > thus far have insisted that there's not enough good research 
> > available to make any real determination about the 
> > effectiveness of meditative practices on anything at all, 
> > start to agree with the AHA statement and conclude that 
> > in certain circumstances, TM comes out consistently ahead 
> > -maybe they start to endorse mindfulness for certain things 
> > too, but not the same things that they say TM is good for.
> > 
> > At THAT point, will you concede that TM  IS "in any way 
> > superior to any other meditations out there?"
> >
turquoiseb:
> Lawson, you can "play pretend" all you want, but
> I'm stuck back on the more fundamental issue that
> this WHOLE QUESTION is based on the ego and 
> attachment of TMers who are *desperate* to somehow
> "prove" that what they were told over and over and 
> over and over and over and over for decades is true. 
> That is, that TM *is* superior, or "the best." 
>
"If you seek the realms of light, the best thing to do 
is to meditate with love and the gentle aliveness. 
Meditation should not be forced." - Zen Master Rama

http://www.ramaquotes.com/html/introduction_meditation.html

 
> I honestly have never encountered another form of
> meditation or tradition that indoctrinates its
> practitioners to believe this and proselytize this, 
> although in theory they might exist, if some other 
> teacher or tradition is/was as ego-bound and petty 
> as Maharishi. 
> 
> THE WHOLE QUESTION is meaningless, except to 
> those (like yourself) who are trying to "prove" 
> something having (IMO) to do with their *own* 
> superiority in being practitioners of "the best." 
> 
> So go off and "play pretend" on your own. Most of
> the rest of us DON'T CARE.
> 
> YOU care. You care a LOT. Given your posting history
> here and on other forums, this need to "prove" TM's
> supposed "superiority" or "bestness" is a common
> and consistently annoying theme, and has been as 
> long as I've known you. Just sayin'...

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[sparaig]

TM is taught in a systematic way over a period of several days. It is special 
in that it is taught systematically. The same video I used to justify claiming 
that TM is special because it is taught systematically over a period of several 
days is the same video where MMY points out that mantras have no specialness 
due to a relationship between teacher and student: they are chosen in a 
systematic way -nothing mystical about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kRSvW9Ml9DQ#t=393s

L
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> No no no no no! You must be wrong! After all, so many people here on FFL, 
> when asked by me some time ago said that TM is superior BECAUSE of the 
> special way it is taught, the special instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: sparaig 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:57 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> 
> 
>   
> 
> You know, I never was told that my mantra was unique or special.
> 
> In fact, my teacher explicitly said: "there are a limited number of TM 
> mantras, and they are chosen via a simple, mechanical selection process based 
> on the answers you gave in your application form."
> 
> MMY explicitly said to the press many decades ago that there is nothing 
> special about TM teaching and mantras. There's no special relationship with 
> the teacher -it's like a history professor recounting the progression of 
> years in history -otherwise the process couldn't be called scientific.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kRSvW9Ml9DQ#t=393s
> 
> L
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > > > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > > > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > > > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > > > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > > > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > > > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > > > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > > > the author of this piece is not.
> > > 
> > > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > > 'ritual'...
> > 
> > ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> > witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> > Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> > other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> > being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> > to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> > is neither). 
> > 
> > You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
> > least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
> > the room at that point and demand their money back. 
> > 
> > You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> > was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> > author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> > and non-everyday it IS. 
> > 
> > BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
> > on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
> > actually SAY -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
> > that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
> > who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
> > to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
> > ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
> > actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
> > lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
> > you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
> > Without A Paddle. :-)
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

No no no no no! You must be wrong! After all, so many people here on FFL, when 
asked by me some time ago said that TM is superior BECAUSE of the special way 
it is taught, the special instructions.





 From: sparaig 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 12:57 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  

You know, I never was told that my mantra was unique or special.

In fact, my teacher explicitly said: "there are a limited number of TM mantras, 
and they are chosen via a simple, mechanical selection process based on the 
answers you gave in your application form."

MMY explicitly said to the press many decades ago that there is nothing special 
about TM teaching and mantras. There's no special relationship with the teacher 
-it's like a history professor recounting the progression of years in history 
-otherwise the process couldn't be called scientific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kRSvW9Ml9DQ#t=393s

L
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > > the author of this piece is not.
> > 
> > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > 'ritual'...
> 
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> is neither). 
> 
> You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
> least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
> the room at that point and demand their money back. 
> 
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS. 
> 
> BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
> on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
> actually SAY -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
> that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
> who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
> to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
> ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
> actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
> lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
> you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
> Without A Paddle. :-)
>


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
>
> Dryly:
> 
> fer shure...
> 
> Let's play pretend:
> 
> Pretend that the AHA scientific statement brings about a 
> slew of larger-scale studies designed the way this study was:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686
> 
> Where good faith attempts were made to compensate for the 
> fact that it is virtually impossible to conduct a "double-" 
> blind study on meditation by ensuring that all test subjects 
> had the same expectations.
> 
> Let us further pretend that these hypothetical studies show 
> roughly the same thing:
> 
> on stress/health issues, TM comes in first, mindfulness 
> practices second and concentrative practices third.
> 
> on mindfulness-related issues, mindfulness comes in first, 
> TM second, and concentrative practices third.
> 
> Let us finally pretend that a large enough number of these 
> studies are done in such  way that all the reviewers who 
> thus far have insisted that there's not enough good research 
> available to make any real determination about the 
> effectiveness of meditative practices on anything at all, 
> start to agree with the AHA statement and conclude that 
> in certain circumstances, TM comes out consistently ahead 
> -maybe they start to endorse mindfulness for certain things 
> too, but not the same things that they say TM is good for.
> 
> At THAT point, will you concede that TM  IS "in any way 
> superior to any other meditations out there?"

Lawson, you can "play pretend" all you want, but
I'm stuck back on the more fundamental issue that
this WHOLE QUESTION is based on the ego and 
attachment of TMers who are *desperate* to somehow
"prove" that what they were told over and over and 
over and over and over and over for decades is true. 
That is, that TM *is* superior, or "the best." 

I honestly have never encountered another form of
meditation or tradition that indoctrinates its
practitioners to believe this and proselytize this, 
although in theory they might exist, if some other 
teacher or tradition is/was as ego-bound and petty 
as Maharishi. 

THE WHOLE QUESTION is meaningless, except to 
those (like yourself) who are trying to "prove" 
something having (IMO) to do with their *own* 
superiority in being practitioners of "the best." 

So go off and "play pretend" on your own. Most of
the rest of us DON'T CARE.

YOU care. You care a LOT. Given your posting history
here and on other forums, this need to "prove" TM's
supposed "superiority" or "bestness" is a common
and consistently annoying theme, and has been as 
long as I've known you. Just sayin'...


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > I never used the word pyramid - TM has some beneficial effects and some 
> > negative effects one of which is a sort of addictive quality that Curtis 
> > commented on recently - for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other 
> > meditations out there.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  From: "doctordumbass@" 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:23 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, 
> > that has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing 
> > geniuses behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 
> > 
> > As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid 
> > scheme, as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do 
> > you do TM?
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers 
> > > > who proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as 
> > > > with electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to 
> > > > stay. 
> > > 
> > > But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> > > 
> > > Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> > > those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[sparaig]

Dryly:

fer shure...

Let's play pretend:

Pretend that the AHA scientific statement brings about a slew of larger-scale 
studies designed the way this study was:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686

Where good faith attempts were made to compensate for the fact that it is 
virtually impossible to conduct a "double-" blind study on meditation by 
ensuring that all test subjects had the same expectations.

Let us further pretend that these hypothetical studies show roughly the same 
thing:

on stress/health issues, TM comes in first, mindfulness practices second and 
concentrative practices third.

on mindfulness-related issues, mindfulness comes in first, TM second, and 
concentrative practices third.

Let us finally pretend that a large enough number of these studies are done in 
such  way that all the reviewers who thus far have insisted that there's not 
enough good research available to make any real determination about the 
effectiveness of meditative practices on anything at all, start to agree with 
the AHA statement and conclude that in certain circumstances, TM comes out 
consistently ahead -maybe they start to endorse mindfulness for certain things 
too, but not the same things that they say TM is good for.

At THAT point, will you concede that TM  IS "in any way superior to any other 
meditations out there?"

L

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> I never used the word pyramid - TM has some beneficial effects and some 
> negative effects one of which is a sort of addictive quality that Curtis 
> commented on recently - for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other 
> meditations out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:23 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> 
> 
>   
> Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
> has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing geniuses 
> behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 
> 
> As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid 
> scheme, as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do you 
> do TM?
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers 
> > > who proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as 
> > > with electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> > 
> > But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> > 
> > Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> > those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> > 
> > 
> > > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the 
> > > technique is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you 
> > > want to work on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, 
> > > while at the same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> > 
> > People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> > getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> > market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> > all the other things they try? 
> > 
> > I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> > and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement 
> > scene. There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> > TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
> > promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to 
> > be honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do 
> > half what it claimed - if that. 
> > 
> > But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> > *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified 
> > field towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> > why it's still around.
> > 
> > 
> > > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > > reality of it.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > &g

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[sparaig]

You know, I never was told that my mantra was unique or special.

In fact, my teacher explicitly said: "there are a limited number of TM mantras, 
and they are chosen via a simple, mechanical selection process based on the 
answers you gave in your application form."

MMY explicitly said to the press many decades ago that there is nothing special 
about TM teaching and mantras. There's no special relationship with the teacher 
-it's like a history professor recounting the progression of years in history 
-otherwise the process couldn't be called scientific.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kRSvW9Ml9DQ#t=393s

L
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > > the author of this piece is not.
> > 
> > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > 'ritual'...
> 
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> is neither). 
> 
> You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
> least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
> the room at that point and demand their money back. 
> 
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS. 
> 
> BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
> on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
> actually SAY -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
> that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
> who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
> to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
> ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
> actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
> lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
> you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
> Without A Paddle. :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[sparaig]

Yes, the prospect that the average health insurance company in the USA may make 
deals with the TMO and/or the DLF to learn TM at a discount via a copay mean 
that TM is definitely going to be short-lived.

Here's a hint: hospitals already offer mindfulness training for things like 
treating hypertension, even though the American Heart Association says 
explicitly that there is no proof that it works for that purpose. What do you 
expect to happen with TM now?


L
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> TM practice is dying off thank God, and this spurt created by D Lynch and his 
> TM shill buddies is going to be short lived.
> 
> As to your assertion that people try to "distort it and criticize it, simply 
> because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works" is complete bullshit. 
> People criticize it because it doesn't and has never delivered what Huckster 
> Marshy promised in so many ways. And the fact that is packaged and delivered 
> and promoted by what has become a bona fide cult - crowns, robes and fear of 
> south facing entrances, anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: "doctordumbass@..." 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:21 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> 
> 
>   
> You are inadvertently outlining the strengths of TM. It has been around for 
> 50 years, and counting, despite attempts to distort it and criticize it, 
> simply because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works. 
> 
> Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
> proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
> electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> 
> I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique is 
> not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work on 
> your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the same 
> time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> 
> I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> reality of it.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > > inner space.
> > > > 
> > > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > 
> > > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > > the way of a good story.
> > 
> > I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> > nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> > piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> > She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> > remembrance of something that happened (and that
> > she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> > natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> > or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> > where they actually got taught something that cost
> > money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> > 
> > As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> > ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> > 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> > she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> > nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> > ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> > or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> > similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> > robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> > slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> > her. :-)
> > 
> > Anything is 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
[...]
> Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> as the TMO would like them to be. 
> 

By American marketing standards, whatever the customer is willing to pay is the 
proper price-point. MMY's explicit purpose in jacking the price so high was to 
entice the 1%-ers to learn, and my retail-store-owning friends assure me that 
this is a good strategy as the rich really do NOT shop at poor stores, unless 
they are incognito, which would foil the point of enticing celebrities to learn 
something with an eye towards "setting trends."

And remember: that is the max price you are expected to pay. Between wealthy 
donors to the DLF and generous contributions to the TM centers by local 
individuals, the actual price that a person might pay ranges between $0 and 
$1500 inclusive. It's a stealth sliding-scale.

Now, your second point, about not being worth the price...

the recent quasi-endorsement by the American Heart Association refutes that 
point quite nicely.

While you might think that the recommendation is due to there simply more 
research being avaliable on TM vs other forms of meditation, it isn't anywhere 
near that simple. A quick check of pubmed gets 850+ hits on the search term:  
mindfulness meditation.

The same search on: "Transcendental Meditation" gets only 300 hits, with 
perhaps a dozen overlapping between the two.

A search on: meditation   gets 2600+ hits, so obviously there's a lot of 
research on non-mindulness/non-TM research out there, but even so, after 
looking at all the research on meditation and relaxation from the past 5 years 
(about 1,000 studies, according to my email with Dr Brooks, the lead author of 
the AHA statement), the conclusion of the writing team (none of whom are 
involved, as far as I know, with TM, mindfulness or any other style of 
meditation) was what it said: TM has a modest effect on blood pressure and can 
be used in clinical practice as a secondary/tertiary treatment for its 
treatment while no other meditation/relaxation technique could be recommended 
at this time due to lack of good/consistent research.

TM was put towards the bottom of the list for several reasons: research 
suggested that it wasn't as effective as some alternate treatments for high 
blood pressure like aerobic exercise, and it was considered less convenient to 
learn and practice than other possible treatments with the same general effect 
level. The AHA statement is a guideline for  doctors  on what to recommend and 
why, and not directed specifically at patients who might have their own way of 
evaluating things that is different than what the AHA used. The AHA statement 
also pointed out that there are cardiac-health benefits from TM (and possibly 
other meditation/relaxation techniques) that might make them attractive to 
prescribe for reasons other than hypertension, but the research they cited 
still showed TM to be superior in that respect, e.g., 48% reduction in 
cardiac/stroke-related deaths over a 5 year period.

So... TM isn't worth the price, and TM promoters aren't admirable (in what 
context?), but you really don't have anything to base your conclusions on 
except personal opinion, unlike the American Heart Association.


L

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > > the author of this piece is not.
> > 
> > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > 'ritual'...
> 
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> is neither). 

You write like you have been living in some white bread American midwest city 
all your life. In this century and with all of the exposure many of us have to 
so many cultures, the internet, not to mention that we are well past middle age 
and that counts for some accumulation of life experience, surely something as 
benign and tame as the puja performed during TM initiation hardly qualifies as 
bizarre or weird. It is very tame and could resemble any other kind of 
ceremonial ritual or tradition. 
> 
> You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
> least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
> the room at that point and demand their money back. 

You know I never opted to become a TM teacher, what does that have to do with 
my point? And for God's sake, an Orthodox anything predisposes them to such 
rigidity. Did you not warn this man of the kind of ceremony that was going to 
take place as part of his initiation? That would have been an important part of 
getting the guy prepared for what was going to happen. Or maybe you didn't 
realize he was an Orthodox Jew until he decided to leave the room and said, 
"You should know I'm Orthodox and simply can't possibly condone such pomposity!"
> 
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS. 

Well, I am not sure what "everyday" actually means. But I do know that if I 
could experience a puja or other cool kind of ceremonial tradition with all the 
fixin's I wouldn't say "no". It can't be any weirder than half the 'googling' 
we all do in a day.
> 
> BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
> on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
> actually SAY

Oh dear lord no, I wouldn't do that oh great wise knower of the hidden meanings 
of things.
Christ Barry, you are a prude sometimes. So goddamn square.

 -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
> that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
> who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
> to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
> ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
> actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
> lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
> you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
> Without A Paddle. :-)

"Pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious ceremony"? Of course it 
is religious and it is a ceremony and it is giving thanks. It is beautiful. 
Like saying grace before a meal or singing a hymn. Are you really this 
conservative? Honestly, and all this time I figured you were a man of the 
world. Was I ever wrong.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> You are inadvertently outlining the strengths of TM. It has been around for 
> 50 years, and counting, despite attempts to distort it and criticize it, 
> simply because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works. 
> 
> Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
> proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
> electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> 
> I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique is 
> not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work on 
> your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the same 
> time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> 
> I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> reality of it.

The americans have an expression; Get Used To It. Perhaps the Turq simply 
should get used to the idea that TM is a huge success and is here to stay.

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

> > She seems pissed that the course was so expensive. Assuming
> > this was really a standard TM initiation, she seems to have
> > confused the introductory lectures as being part of having
> > already learned meditation before getting the mantra. In
> > other words she has a confused memory. Or, more likely in my
> > opinion, she has given a spin to the article to ward off
> > others who might want to learn.
> >
authfriend:
> Well, that's a given. But I've read any number of articles
> with that same spin that described the course accurately.
>
Yeah, as far as the cost, it's no more than your average 
college tuition, where you get a lot less. In fact, the MMY
and the TMO are about as benign as Scout cookies. So, it just 
seems puzzling why people like Doughney and Wright seem so 
obsessed with the MMY's comings-and-goings. Go figure.

Sometimes, I wonder what's up with that and these guys -
they don't seem able to move on with their life like other 
people do. Are they just trying to bring us all down or 
what? 

Maybe we're in a much better position to discuss MMY's 
ideas than they are, since we're still on the program and 
they are not. They're making things up, so all I'm saying 
is let's discuss some ideas about how to cure them of making 
things up. Why can't they just be honest and forget all 
the trolling? LoL!

 
> Here's what she writes:
> 
> -
> During the free intro, I heard a lot about scientific reports on the benefits 
> of TM, like reducing stress and releasing creativity. It sounded reasonable 
> enough, and I was impressed that the people in the room looked pretty normal. 
> The instructor didn't go into any religious stuff and could have easily fit 
> into a corporate office with his clean-cut appearance and fondness for graphs 
> and charts. The technique, he assured the class, was easy to learn and could 
> provide a lifetime of benefits for both mind and body. We were invited to 
> consider taking a beginner course, after which we would have access to a 
> lifetime of "free followup and support." Then came the kicker: the price of a 
> beginner course was $2,500.
> 
> I gulped. That was quite a pricetag. But at this point, I was already looking 
> forward to my transformation. Wasn't inner peace worth it? I rationalized 
> that people paid far more than this for therapy in New York City, and after 
> all, I had hard evidence from my boyfriend that the technique could have 
> long-lasting effects. I had just landed a lucrative ghostwriting contract, 
> and if learning TM would make me less stressed and more productive, it would 
> be worth it, right? My inner skeptic was silenced. I went for it.
> 
> Over several courses, I learned to sit with my eyes closed and just let my 
> thoughts flow until I began to feel a sense of peaceful awareness come over 
> me. There was no need to concentrate or sit in any particular way, or refrain 
> from scratching my nose. A steady flow of references to scientific studies 
> promising increased intelligence and emotional development padded what was 
> otherwise a pretty straightforward lesson on sitting still and chilling out. 
> After the completion of the course, there was a special "graduation" ceremony 
> in which students were given individual mantras to use in our practice. This 
> was the first real whiff of spirituality. I was told to bring an offering of 
> flowers to meet the instructor, who now appeared wearing a robe. He solemnly 
> told me that he had a special word to give me that was mine alone and would 
> be the key to my successful practice of TM.
> 
> "I know something about you," he said, staring meaningfully into my eyes. 
> "And that's why I'm giving you this particular mantra." I was no longer a 
> student in a class, but an initiate into a special order of enlightened 
> beings. I was invited to attend group meditation sessions where the combined 
> force of our effort would increase harmonic vibrations of the universe and 
> contribute to global peace. Or something like that.
> -
> 
> I don't think she ever took the course. She's obviously not
> confusing the intro stuff with the actual instruction, but
> she has the order of instruction reversed, with initiation
> coming at the end ("graduation"). Whatever other details
> have been wrong in other articles, I've never seen one that
> has put the most memorable part of the instruction last
> rather than first, or suggested that students were taught
> how to meditate without a mantra.
> 
> And she doesn't even mention the puja, which is arguably the
> most potentially off-putting element of personal instruction
> (apart from the fee, which she deals with extensively
> elsewhere in the article).
> 
> Could all be severe memory problems, I suppose, but a
> responsible journalist would have realized her memory was 
> hazy and checked things out before writing the article.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

Michael Jackson:
> Marshy was just like all these New Age screwballs 
> who know that they always have to keep giving their 
> followers something fresh, something new to make 
> them think they are getting something more - its 
> just smoke and mirrors.
> 
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss 
events. Small minds discuss people." -- Eleanor Roosevelt

 
> > Can you think of another product with no value, 
> > as you seem to suggest, that has been around for 
> > fifty years, simply because of the marketing 
> > geniuses behind it? I can't. Has to provide some 
> > value. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
(snip)
> > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > 'ritual'...
> 
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> is neither). 
(snip) 
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS.

No, she isn't. She didn't mention the puja at all in
her piece (or that she brought hanky or fruit, for
that matter, just the flowers).

I thought you actually read the article, but apparently
you didn't--you've just *assumed* you knew what was in it,
and, as usual, gotten it wrong.

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

turquoise:
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS.
>

Oh stop it Barry, you're sounding like an informant.

"Everything aids everything because all things are a reflection of the
Buddha mind or the mind of enlightenment." - Zen Master Rama

   

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[doctordumbass]

Thanks for your reply. "Most of the modern world has no value and exists 
because of marketing. To think otherwise is to fall into their greasy hands." 
Off topic, I read a very interesting essay about the proliferation of mustard 
varieties at the supermarket, and yet when the same thing has been attempted 
with ketchup, it falls flat. 

Glad you are meditating. I agree that the claims made are big, though the 
results are pretty big too. I enjoy the continuous expansion of awareness and 
dissolving of boundaries.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> >
> > Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, 
> > that has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing 
> > geniuses behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 
> 
> Most of the modern world has no value and exists because of marketing.
> To think otherwise is to fall into their greasy hands. 
> 
> "Create a demand and sell to it" is the mantra of today.
> 
> 
> > As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid 
> > scheme, as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do 
> > you do TM?
> 
> Yup. I'm one of the 1% that did it for more than a few months. But
> if I was to draw up a list of expectations gained from TM publicity
> material and compare them to how I am after 20 years I would say it
> fell way short of expectations. But I keep doing it because I like it,
> so it must do *something* To be honest, I just like the clarity I get from it 
> occasionally but I know it's all just dopamine I don't have
> any beliefs in cosmic whatever.
> 
> TM doesn't so much have longevity as it has a message that people
> of all ages are going to want to hear. As long as enough devotees
> get interested enough themselves to promote it and run the  organisation it 
> will keep going and reinvent itself every few years, as it has dome with the 
> DLF.
> 
> Marshy was clever, he realised that you had to keep people's
> enthusiasm up in the face of drainingly disappointing results
> so he'd reinvent the TMO every few years. First the SRM then
> the World Family, then...whatever, finally the GFWP and the DLF.
> 
> People would have wandered off without that sort of inspiration,
> it took me one round of excitement at the New Idea and one Big
> Disappointment when it failed, to realise that they'd been doing 
> this for decades and would do it for many more. This is good
> advertising, keep it fresh and it stays on the shelf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers 
> > > > who proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as 
> > > > with electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to 
> > > > stay. 
> > > 
> > > But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> > > 
> > > Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> > > those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the 
> > > > technique is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps 
> > > > you want to work on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and 
> > > > wrong, while at the same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> > > 
> > > People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> > > getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> > > market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> > > all the other things they try? 
> > > 
> > > I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> > > and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement 
> > > scene. There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> > > TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among 
> > > us, promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You 
> > > have to be honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and 
> > > didn't do half what it claimed - if that. 
> > > 
> > > But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> > > *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified 
> > > field towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> > > why it's still around.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > > > reality of it.
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" 
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> >

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
>
> This paragraph from near the beginning of her article is so
> muddled and confusing that I can't take anything she says 
> seriously. 

And oddly enough, this woman is one of AlterNet's senior
editors, so she presumably has plenty of article-writing,
even expose-writing, experience. If this article is the
best she can do in terms of accuracy, I don't know whether
anything else she writes can be trusted either.




> "Over several courses, I learned to sit with my eyes closed and just let my 
> thoughts flow until I began to feel a sense of peaceful awareness come over 
> me. There was no need to concentrate or sit in any particular way, or refrain 
> from scratching my nose. A steady flow of references to scientific studies 
> promising increased intelligence and emotional development padded what was 
> otherwise a pretty straightforward lesson on sitting still and chilling out. 
> After the completion of the course, there was a special "graduation" ceremony 
> in which students were given individual mantras to use in our practice. This 
> was the first real whiff of spirituality. I was told to bring an offering of 
> flowers to meet the instructor, who now appeared wearing a robe. He solemnly 
> told me that he had a special word to give me that was mine alone and would 
> be the key to my successful practice of TM." 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > 
> > > As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > > rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> > > where they actually got taught something that cost
> > > money. :-) This author may have thought similarly.
> > 
> > Nuh-uh. The "graduation ceremony" at which she was
> > given her mantra, according to her, came *after*
> > she'd attended the intro, paid her fee, and sat
> > through several days of instruction in how to
> > meditate.
> > 
> > Apparently you read the article; how could you have
> > missed that? At least it took her 10 years to forget
> > what happened; took you less than a day to forget
> > what you'd just read. ;-)
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" 
 wrote:
>
> She seems pissed that the course was so expensive. Assuming
> this was really a standard TM initiation, she seems to have
> confused the introductory lectures as being part of having
> already learned meditation before getting the mantra. In
> other words she has a confused memory. Or, more likely in my
> opinion, she has given a spin to the article to ward off
> others who might want to learn.

Well, that's a given. But I've read any number of articles
with that same spin that described the course accurately.

Here's what she writes:

-
During the free intro, I heard a lot about scientific reports on the benefits 
of TM, like reducing stress and releasing creativity. It sounded reasonable 
enough, and I was impressed that the people in the room looked pretty normal. 
The instructor didn't go into any religious stuff and could have easily fit 
into a corporate office with his clean-cut appearance and fondness for graphs 
and charts. The technique, he assured the class, was easy to learn and could 
provide a lifetime of benefits for both mind and body. We were invited to 
consider taking a beginner course, after which we would have access to a 
lifetime of "free followup and support." Then came the kicker: the price of a 
beginner course was $2,500.

I gulped. That was quite a pricetag. But at this point, I was already looking 
forward to my transformation. Wasn't inner peace worth it? I rationalized that 
people paid far more than this for therapy in New York City, and after all, I 
had hard evidence from my boyfriend that the technique could have long-lasting 
effects. I had just landed a lucrative ghostwriting contract, and if learning 
TM would make me less stressed and more productive, it would be worth it, 
right? My inner skeptic was silenced. I went for it.

Over several courses, I learned to sit with my eyes closed and just let my 
thoughts flow until I began to feel a sense of peaceful awareness come over me. 
There was no need to concentrate or sit in any particular way, or refrain from 
scratching my nose. A steady flow of references to scientific studies promising 
increased intelligence and emotional development padded what was otherwise a 
pretty straightforward lesson on sitting still and chilling out. After the 
completion of the course, there was a special "graduation" ceremony in which 
students were given individual mantras to use in our practice. This was the 
first real whiff of spirituality. I was told to bring an offering of flowers to 
meet the instructor, who now appeared wearing a robe. He solemnly told me that 
he had a special word to give me that was mine alone and would be the key to my 
successful practice of TM.

"I know something about you," he said, staring meaningfully into my eyes. "And 
that's why I'm giving you this particular mantra." I was no longer a student in 
a class, but an initiate into a special order of enlightened beings. I was 
invited to attend group meditation sessions where the combined force of our 
effort would increase harmonic vibrations of the universe and contribute to 
global peace. Or something like that.
-

I don't think she ever took the course. She's obviously not
confusing the intro stuff with the actual instruction, but
she has the order of instruction reversed, with initiation
coming at the end ("graduation"). Whatever other details
have been wrong in other articles, I've never seen one that
has put the most memorable part of the instruction last
rather than first, or suggested that students were taught
how to meditate without a mantra.

And she doesn't even mention the puja, which is arguably the
most potentially off-putting element of personal instruction
(apart from the fee, which she deals with extensively
elsewhere in the article).

Could all be severe memory problems, I suppose, but a
responsible journalist would have realized her memory was 
hazy and checked things out before writing the article.

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[feste37]

This paragraph from near the beginning of her article is so muddled and 
confusing that I can't take anything she says seriously. 


"Over several courses, I learned to sit with my eyes closed and just let my 
thoughts flow until I began to feel a sense of peaceful awareness come over me. 
There was no need to concentrate or sit in any particular way, or refrain from 
scratching my nose. A steady flow of references to scientific studies promising 
increased intelligence and emotional development padded what was otherwise a 
pretty straightforward lesson on sitting still and chilling out. After the 
completion of the course, there was a special "graduation" ceremony in which 
students were given individual mantras to use in our practice. This was the 
first real whiff of spirituality. I was told to bring an offering of flowers to 
meet the instructor, who now appeared wearing a robe. He solemnly told me that 
he had a special word to give me that was mine alone and would be the key to my 
successful practice of TM." 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> 
> > As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> > where they actually got taught something that cost
> > money. :-) This author may have thought similarly.
> 
> Nuh-uh. The "graduation ceremony" at which she was
> given her mantra, according to her, came *after*
> she'd attended the intro, paid her fee, and sat
> through several days of instruction in how to
> meditate.
> 
> Apparently you read the article; how could you have
> missed that? At least it took her 10 years to forget
> what happened; took you less than a day to forget
> what you'd just read. ;-)
> 
> 
> http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

Marshy was just like all these New Age screwballs who know that they always 
have to keep giving their followers something fresh, something new to make them 
think they are getting something more - its just smoke and mirrors.





 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:42 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
> has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing geniuses 
> behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 

Most of the modern world has no value and exists because of marketing.
To think otherwise is to fall into their greasy hands. 

"Create a demand and sell to it" is the mantra of today.

> As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid 
> scheme, as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do you 
> do TM?

Yup. I'm one of the 1% that did it for more than a few months. But
if I was to draw up a list of expectations gained from TM publicity
material and compare them to how I am after 20 years I would say it
fell way short of expectations. But I keep doing it because I like it,
so it must do *something* To be honest, I just like the clarity I get from it 
occasionally but I know it's all just dopamine I don't have
any beliefs in cosmic whatever.

TM doesn't so much have longevity as it has a message that people
of all ages are going to want to hear. As long as enough devotees
get interested enough themselves to promote it and run the  organisation it 
will keep going and reinvent itself every few years, as it has dome with the 
DLF.

Marshy was clever, he realised that you had to keep people's
enthusiasm up in the face of drainingly disappointing results
so he'd reinvent the TMO every few years. First the SRM then
the World Family, then...whatever, finally the GFWP and the DLF.

People would have wandered off without that sort of inspiration,
it took me one round of excitement at the New Idea and one Big
Disappointment when it failed, to realise that they'd been doing 
this for decades and would do it for many more. This is good
advertising, keep it fresh and it stays on the shelf.

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers 
> > > who proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as 
> > > with electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> > 
> > But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> > 
> > Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> > those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> > 
> > 
> > > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the 
> > > technique is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you 
> > > want to work on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, 
> > > while at the same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> > 
> > People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> > getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> > market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> > all the other things they try? 
> > 
> > I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> > and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement 
> > scene. There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> > TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
> > promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to 
> > be honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do 
> > half what it claimed - if that. 
> > 
> > But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> > *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified 
> > field towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> > why it's still around.
> > 
> > 
> > > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > > reality of it.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wr

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

I never used the word pyramid - TM has some beneficial effects and some 
negative effects one of which is a sort of addictive quality that Curtis 
commented on recently - for sure TM is not in any way superior to any other 
meditations out there.





 From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  
Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing geniuses 
behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 

As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid scheme, 
as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do you do TM?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
> > proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
> > electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> 
> But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> 
> Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> 
> 
> > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique 
> > is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work 
> > on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the 
> > same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> 
> People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> all the other things they try? 
> 
> I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement scene. 
> There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
> promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to be 
> honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do half 
> what it claimed - if that. 
> 
> But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified field 
> towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> why it's still around.
> 
> 
> > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > reality of it.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > > > inner space.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > > 
> > > > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > > > the way of a good story.
> > > 
> > > I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> > > nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> > > piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> > > She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> > > remembrance of something that happened (and that
> > > she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> > > natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> > > or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > > rest

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

She seems pissed that the course was so expensive. Assuming this was really a 
standard TM initiation, she seems to have confused the introductory lectures as 
being part of having already learned meditation before getting the mantra. In 
other words she has a confused memory. Or, more likely in my opinion, she has 
given a spin to the article to ward off others who might want to learn. On the 
other hand, TM initiation hardly looks like something secular. Before I got the 
'spiritual bug', I would never get involved in something like this, but because 
I had had certain experiences, and sought out meditation deliberately from that 
point, it did not matter so much.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > no robes either huh? Ever heard of a raja?
> 
> Wouldn't be doing initiations in robes.
> 
> 
> > 
> >  From: authfriend 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:33 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> >  
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> > > wall people in TM?
> > 
> > Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
> > TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
> > was never initiated and made up her account based on 
> > piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
> > others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
> > an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
> > anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
> > her story can't be trusted.
> > 
> > > 
> > >  From: authfriend 
> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
> > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > inner space.
> > > 
> > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > 
> > > > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
(snip)
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy

You *told* your initiates to kneel down??

The initiation instructions I've read say the teacher
is supposed to make a gesture inviting the initiate
to kneel, without saying anything, and to proceed with
the initiation whether the initiate kneels or not.

That's what my teacher did and what many other TMers
have described. Never heard anyone say they were *told*
to kneel.

Oddly enough, the writer of the article didn't mention
being invited to kneel. You'd think *that* would have
stuck in her mind even if she got the other stuff all
confused.

(Salyavin, meant to tell you, she didn't mention the hanky,
just the flowers.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:
>
> Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
> has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing geniuses 
> behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 

Most of the modern world has no value and exists because of marketing.
To think otherwise is to fall into their greasy hands. 

"Create a demand and sell to it" is the mantra of today.


> As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid 
> scheme, as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do you 
> do TM?

Yup. I'm one of the 1% that did it for more than a few months. But
if I was to draw up a list of expectations gained from TM publicity
material and compare them to how I am after 20 years I would say it
fell way short of expectations. But I keep doing it because I like it,
so it must do *something* To be honest, I just like the clarity I get from it 
occasionally but I know it's all just dopamine I don't have
any beliefs in cosmic whatever.

TM doesn't so much have longevity as it has a message that people
of all ages are going to want to hear. As long as enough devotees
get interested enough themselves to promote it and run the  organisation it 
will keep going and reinvent itself every few years, as it has dome with the 
DLF.

Marshy was clever, he realised that you had to keep people's
enthusiasm up in the face of drainingly disappointing results
so he'd reinvent the TMO every few years. First the SRM then
the World Family, then...whatever, finally the GFWP and the DLF.

People would have wandered off without that sort of inspiration,
it took me one round of excitement at the New Idea and one Big
Disappointment when it failed, to realise that they'd been doing 
this for decades and would do it for many more. This is good
advertising, keep it fresh and it stays on the shelf.





 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers 
> > > who proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as 
> > > with electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> > 
> > But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> > 
> > Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> > those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> > 
> >  
> > > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the 
> > > technique is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you 
> > > want to work on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, 
> > > while at the same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> > 
> > People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> > getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> > market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> > all the other things they try? 
> > 
> > I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> > and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement 
> > scene. There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> > TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
> > promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to 
> > be honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do 
> > half what it claimed - if that. 
> > 
> > But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> > *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified 
> > field towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> > why it's still around.
> > 
> >  
> > > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > > reality of it.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > > > > inner space.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > > > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > > > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > > > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > > > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > > > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > > > > the way of a good story.
> > > > 
> > > > I think you're getting caught up in T

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[doctordumbass]

TM is taught in its own context. I visited a Cathedral in Puerto Vallarta 
recently, and the altar was beautiful, soaring columns and arches, although 
there for everyone to see, was Christ hanging on a cross, with thorns on his 
head, dying of torture. Makes the Puja seem awfully tame in comparison, don't 
you think?

Funny thing, I had a large (3' x 5') beautiful painting of a puja, from Bali, 
above the family dining room table, for as long as I can remember (now hanging 
in my LR). Also an intricate wooden carving of Saraswati (also Balinese) on the 
mantle, and a brass Krishna, with ivory eyes, nearby.

Weird? Where did you grow up, on a military base, or something? ;-)  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > > the author of this piece is not.
> > 
> > "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> > speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> > attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> > attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> > 'ritual'...
> 
> ...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
> witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
> Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
> other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
> being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
> to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
> is neither). 
> 
> You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
> least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
> the room at that point and demand their money back. 
> 
> You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
> was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
> author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
> and non-everyday it IS. 
> 
> BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
> on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
> actually SAY -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
> that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
> who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
> to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
> ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
> actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
> lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
> you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
> Without A Paddle. :-)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:

> As for the "end of the course" thang,
> that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> where they actually got taught something that cost
> money. :-) This author may have thought similarly.

Nuh-uh. The "graduation ceremony" at which she was
given her mantra, according to her, came *after*
she'd attended the intro, paid her fee, and sat
through several days of instruction in how to
meditate.

Apparently you read the article; how could you have
missed that? At least it took her 10 years to forget
what happened; took you less than a day to forget
what you'd just read. ;-)


http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[doctordumbass]

Can you think of another product with no value, as you seem to suggest, that 
has been around for fifty years, simply because of the marketing geniuses 
behind it? I can't. Has to provide some value. 

As for it promising more than it delivers, again, if it were a pyramid scheme, 
as you suggest, it would not have the longevity that it does. Do you do TM?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> > Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
> > proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
> > electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 
> 
> But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?
> 
> Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
> those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?
> 
>  
> > I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique 
> > is not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work 
> > on your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the 
> > same time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.
> 
> People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
> getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
> market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
> all the other things they try? 
> 
> I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
> and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement scene. 
> There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
> TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
> promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to be 
> honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do half 
> what it claimed - if that. 
> 
> But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
> *That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified field 
> towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
> why it's still around.
> 
>  
> > I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> > reality of it.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > > > inner space.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > > 
> > > > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > > > the way of a good story.
> > > 
> > > I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> > > nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> > > piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> > > She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> > > remembrance of something that happened (and that
> > > she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> > > natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> > > or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > > rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> > > where they actually got taught something that cost
> > > money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> > > 
> > > As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> > > ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> > > 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> > > she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> > > nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> > > ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> > > or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> > > similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> > > robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> > > slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> > > her. :-)
> > > 
> > > Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> > > sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> > > simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> > > and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> > > like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> > > as the TMO would like them to be. 
> > > 
> > > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

Michael Jackson:
> no robes either huh? Ever heard of a raja?
>
So, you are prejudiced against Hindus because they wear a robe
or a dhoti? Go figure.

  


> > why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> > wall people in TM?
>
> Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
> TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
> was never initiated and made up her account based on
> piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
> others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
> an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
> anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
> her story can't be trusted.
>

> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> >
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things,
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> >
> > >
http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-250\
0-password-inner-peace
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> > 
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> 
> It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> the way of a good story.
> 
> Everything else is right though, the white hanky, high price,
> but then you read to the end and follow the links to the "plenty
> of accounts" and you just get a typical disillusionment story
> from TM-Free and a blog of zero relevance.
> 
> I think someone has done a bit of research into TM and acquired
> enough info to pass themselves off as an initiate so as to give
> the article extra weight. To anyone who does TM regularly it
> doesn't convince but to someone who doesn't

That's what I think.

> The comments section is good though, apparently six million do 
> TM now! I'm sure all the usual suspects are there with the "fact"
> sheet on the research and proof that bouncing up and down creates
> world peace. I dunno how they read to a non-practitioner would 
> but to me they just underline how uncritically accepting of things
> the true believer can be.

Most of the comments were negative, and they were uncritically
accepting of what the writer said.

> The facts here are somewhere in the 
> middle of the hysteria from both sides.
> 
> I could do a better anti-TM article. I could do a better pro-TM
> article too.

Yup. So could I.

> > > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ann"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > the author of this piece is not.
> 
> "Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, 
> speaking quietly and clearly about a simple technique, 
> attending class room-like introductory lectures, 
> attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 
> 'ritual'...

...bearing fruit, flowers and a clean white handkerchief,
witnessing someone chanting in a foreign language to some
Indian guy's painting on an altar, seeing rice, fire, and
other things clearly *offered* to this guy, then finally
being told to *kneel down* in front of this Indian guy
to receive your oh-so-special-and-unique mantra (which
is neither). 

You've clearly never taught TM. I have, and have had at
least one deeply religious person (an Orthodox Jew) leave 
the room at that point and demand their money back. 

You spent *years* in an environment in which all of this
was considered NORMAL, and everyday. It is not. The 
author of this piece is merely commenting on how abnormal
and non-everyday it IS. 

BTW, don't try to run the "pristine and unweird" routine
on someone who actually knows what the words of the puja
actually SAY -- the number of Hindu gods named, the words
that say "I bow down" to them after each offering, and
who you're actually bowing TO at the end. You can try 
to pretend that this is not a traditional Hindu religious
ceremony if you want, but don't expect those of us who
actually read the translation of the puja and "kept it
lively in our minds" as we were chanting it to agree with
you if we're not still TBs, and thus still Up Denial 
Without A Paddle. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> no robes either huh? Ever heard of a raja?

Wouldn't be doing initiations in robes.


> 
>  From: authfriend 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:33 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> > wall people in TM?
> 
> Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
> TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
> was never initiated and made up her account based on 
> piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
> others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
> an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
> anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
> her story can't be trusted.
> 
> > 
> >  From: authfriend 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> > 
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:


 
> Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
> proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
> electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 

But is it as popular as the cell phone, electricity and the automobile?

Meaning; how many who see the advert say "I gotta get me one of
those"? And what percentage keep using it after a few months?

 
> I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique is 
> not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work on 
> your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the same 
> time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.

People are always after something to give them an edge, TM keeps
getting recycled via the latest batch of celebrities and is easy to
market because of its history. But how many keep doing it compared to
all the other things they try? 

I suspect there is a huge market of seekers who do everything once
and finally end up seeing the blandness of the whole self-improvement scene. 
There is precious little we can do to change ourselves and
TM, apart from the very few self-proclaimed enlightened that walk among us, 
promises so much but delivers so little at the end of the day. You have to be 
honest to realise the last bit. It isn't what you expected and didn't do half 
what it claimed - if that. 

But if you promise people everything, who isn't going to want to try?
*That* is the genius of TM marketing, the whole shpeil from the unified field 
towards perfect health. It's damn clever and that's 
why it's still around.

 
> I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the 
> reality of it.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > > inner space.
> > > > 
> > > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > > a robe during the initiations.
> > > 
> > > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > > the way of a good story.
> > 
> > I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> > nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> > piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> > She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> > remembrance of something that happened (and that
> > she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> > natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> > or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> > that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> > the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> > rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> > where they actually got taught something that cost
> > money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> > 
> > As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> > ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> > 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> > she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> > nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> > ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> > or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> > similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> > robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> > slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> > her. :-)
> > 
> > Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> > sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> > simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> > and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> > like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> > as the TMO would like them to be. 
> > 
> > Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> > to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> > make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> > than accept the fact that for most people, the
> > author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> > how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> > how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> > ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> > the author of this piece is not.
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

TM practice is dying off thank God, and this spurt created by D Lynch and his 
TM shill buddies is going to be short lived.

As to your assertion that people try to "distort it and criticize it, simply 
because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works" is complete bullshit. 
People criticize it because it doesn't and has never delivered what Huckster 
Marshy promised in so many ways. And the fact that is packaged and delivered 
and promoted by what has become a bona fide cult - crowns, robes and fear of 
south facing entrances, anyone?





 From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 9:21 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  
You are inadvertently outlining the strengths of TM. It has been around for 50 
years, and counting, despite attempts to distort it and criticize it, simply 
because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works. 

Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 

I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique is 
not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work on 
your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the same 
time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.

I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the reality 
of it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > inner space.
> > > 
> > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > the way of a good story.
> 
> I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> remembrance of something that happened (and that
> she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> where they actually got taught something that cost
> money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> 
> As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> her. :-)
> 
> Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> as the TMO would like them to be. 
> 
> Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> than accept the fact that for most people, the
> author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> the author of this piece is not.
>


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Ann]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > inner space.
> > > 
> > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > the way of a good story.
> 
> I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> remembrance of something that happened (and that
> she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> where they actually got taught something that cost
> money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> 
> As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> her. :-)
> 
> Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> as the TMO would like them to be. 
> 
> Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> than accept the fact that for most people, the
> author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> the author of this piece is not.

"Weird"? TM teachers, in their conservative clothing, speaking quietly and 
clearly about a simple technique, attending class room-like introductory 
lectures, attending a beautiful and settling puja as initiation 'ritual', 
sitting down with this conservative and quiet initiator in the silence and 
peacefulness of a room and meditating for the first time with guidance from 
this said teacher is hardly "weird" or bizarre, disturbing, threatening, mind 
blowing or fucked up. Give me a break Barry. "Weird" is having dedicated one's 
life, energy and intention to being a TM teacher for as long as you did and 
trying to convince all of us, virtually everyone here having been through the 
experience of initiation if not being an actual TM teacher, that TM is 
profoundly WEIRD in some way. The technique and the teaching of it is hardly 
that. Rajas and a whole slew of other Movement aberrations are weird but not TM 
itself of "how it is taught." That part is as uncluttered, pristine and unweird 
as anything I have ever experienced.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > inner space.
> > > 
> > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > the way of a good story.
> 
> I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> remembrance of something that happened (and that
> she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> where they actually got taught something that cost
> money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 

We'll never know. Maybe she asked her boyfriend all
about it, he can't even remember his mantra.  I remember 
the whole thing clear as day 20 years on. But then, I really
liked it. Maybe that's the difference?

 
> As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> her. :-)


I remember journalists in the local press who had come
to stay at our academy writing that we all wore white
robes. I don't know where they got it from, maybe they
saw the purusha on their way to the bouncy room in their
(mostly) white gear. Either way, they liked the idea of
us in white robes so that's what got reported, true or 
not.

Funny thing is if they'd caught sight of a raja ever,
they would've had a field day. But that was a long way 
off at the time. 

I remember a TV slot about the Marshy school and the
crew had asked the teachers if they could film students
doing yoga to show how radically different a place it was. 
The only one of the set of asanas that made the edit was 
the bowing one. Very clever of them. Things like that used
to annoy me but when you are in an unusual group like that 
people are going to have preconceived ideas or even their 
own agenda. Or they'll just make snap judgements and pick
things to broadcast that reflect them. Unfortunately you 
don't find that out until later.

 
> Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> as the TMO would like them to be. 
> 
> Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> than accept the fact that for most people, the
> author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> the author of this piece is not.

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[doctordumbass]

You are inadvertently outlining the strengths of TM. It has been around for 50 
years, and counting, despite attempts to distort it and criticize it, simply 
because TM is a unique form of meditation, that works. 

Any time there is a new technology introduced, there are the naysayers who 
proclaim it too costly, too crazy, or just plain useless. Just as with 
electricity, the automobile, and the cell phone, TM is here to stay. 

I know its kind of a tough pill to swallow, recognizing that the technique is 
not only robust, but continues to grow as well. Perhaps you want to work on 
your attachment to these ideas of TM being bad and wrong, while at the same 
time, recognizing its inevitable global growth.

I am not saying you have to like it, but you may as well recognize the reality 
of it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > > inner space.
> > > 
> > > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> > the way of a good story.
> 
> I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
> nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
> piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
> She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
> remembrance of something that happened (and that
> she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
> natural that she might remember a few things hazily
> or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
> that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
> the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
> rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
> where they actually got taught something that cost
> money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 
> 
> As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
> ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
> 2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
> she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
> nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
> ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
> or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
> similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
> robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
> slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
> her. :-)
> 
> Anything is possible. The points of the article are
> sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
> simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
> and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
> like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
> as the TMO would like them to be. 
> 
> Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
> to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
> make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
> than accept the fact that for most people, the
> author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
> how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
> how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
> ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
> the author of this piece is not.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

Couldn't have expressed it better myself - I liked the article cuz it was 
different from all the bullshit TM fluff pieces D Lynch keeps getting placed 
through TM people who work for the papers and magazines.





 From: turquoiseb 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 8:44 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> > 
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> 
> It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> the way of a good story.

I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
remembrance of something that happened (and that
she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
natural that she might remember a few things hazily
or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
where they actually got taught something that cost
money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 

As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
her. :-)

Anything is possible. The points of the article are
sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
as the TMO would like them to be. 

Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
than accept the fact that for most people, the
author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
the author of this piece is not. 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> > 
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> 
> It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
> the way of a good story.

I think you're getting caught up in The Corrector's
nitpicking and attempts to present the author of this
piece in a bad light, and as having malevolent intent.
She (the author), after all, introduces it as a 
remembrance of something that happened (and that
she was underwhelmed by) *ten years earlier*. It is
natural that she might remember a few things hazily
or inaccurately. As for the "end of the course" thang,
that is how a number of people I've taught thought of
the two introductory lectures, as "the course," the
rest being (for them) something else, maybe the part
where they actually got taught something that cost
money. :-) This author may have thought similarly. 

As for the teacher wearing a robe, I have no explan-
ations except that 1) she might have memory problems,
2) she might be embellishing things for effect, 3)
she might have been dealing with one of the TM teacher
nutcases I often had to deal with as a State Coordin-
ator, who really *did* wear robes and sit on thrones,
or 4) she might have been dealing with a TM teacher
similar to Harold Bloomfeld, who was dressed in a 
robe because he was waiting for the drugs he'd 
slipped her to take effect so that he could molest
her. :-)

Anything is possible. The points of the article are
sound, and valid -- TM is *hugely* overpriced, and
simply not worth the price, TM is hyped as special
and unique when it is anything but, and TM figures
like MMY and David Lynch are *far* from as admirable
as the TMO would like them to be. 

Just as the author may have skewed things a little 
to make her point, Judy skews things in her way to
make the author seem malevolent. Anything rather
than accept the fact that for most people, the
author's piece strikes a resonance, and captures
how insanely WEIRD TM and all the hoopla surrounding
how it is taught are. Judy is so far from that exper-
ience that she can't remember how WEIRD it all is;
the author of this piece is not. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[pileated56]

This sounds like someone teacher is a little too full of themselves. Regardless 
of how you feel about TM, this is not the way it is commonly taught. Anyone who 
would use this as a reason or example to bash the TMO is not being objective 
and fair. This is a case of a rogue teacher or a writer who has a different 
motive.  Either way it is a special case and not a pattern and it would be wise 
to see it as such.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> no robes either huh? Ever heard of a raja?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  From: authfriend 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:33 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> 
> 
>   
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> > wall people in TM?
> 
> Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
> TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
> was never initiated and made up her account based on 
> piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
> others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
> an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
> anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
> her story can't be trusted.
> 
> > ____
> >  From: authfriend 
> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> > >
> > > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > > inner space.
> > 
> > Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> > You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> > who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> > according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> > end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> > a robe during the initiations.
> > 
> > > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> > >
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[salyavin808]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > inner space.
> 
> Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> a robe during the initiations.

It's the first law of journalism: Never let the facts get in
the way of a good story.

Everything else is right though, the white hanky, high price,
but then you read to the end and follow the links to the "plenty
of accounts" and you just get a typical disillusionment story
from TM-Free and a blog of zero relevance.

I think someone has done a bit of research into TM and acquired
enough info to pass themselves off as an initiate so as to give
the article extra weight. To anyone who does TM regularly it
doesn't convince but to someone who doesn't

The comments section is good though, apparently six million do 
TM now! I'm sure all the usual suspects are there with the "fact"
sheet on the research and proof that bouncing up and down creates
world peace. I dunno how they read to a non-practitioner would 
but to me they just underline how uncritically accepting of things
the true believer can be. The facts here are somewhere in the middle 
of the hysteria from both sides.

I could do a better anti-TM article. I could do a better pro-TM
article too. 

  
> > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

no robes either huh? Ever heard of a raja?





 From: authfriend 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 1:33 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> wall people in TM?

Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
was never initiated and made up her account based on 
piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
her story can't be trusted.

> 
>  From: authfriend 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
> 
> 
> 
>   
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > inner space.
> 
> Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> a robe during the initiations.
> 
> > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> >
>


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the
> wall people in TM?

Oh, Michael. You know as well as I do that no "official"
TM teacher would teach the way she describes. Either she
was never initiated and made up her account based on 
piecing together little dribs and drabs she'd heard from
others (and getting them seriously fouled up), or she has
an incredibly bad memory and didn't bother to check with
anybody else before she wrote her article. Either way,
her story can't be trusted.




> 
>  From: authfriend 
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
>  
> 
> 
>   
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
> >
> > A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> > inner space.
> 
> Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
> You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
> who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
> according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
> end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
> a robe during the initiations.
> 
> > http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Michael Jackson]

why do you think that was wrong - haven't you met any off the wall people in TM?





 From: authfriend 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 12:03 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace
 


  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> inner space.

Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
a robe during the initiations.

> http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
>


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
>
> A beautifully written article about TM and the race to
> inner space.

Funny how she gets so many of her facts wrong, isn't it?
You'd almost think she'd learned TM from some independent
who'd gone *way* off the range. Among other things, 
according to her, her teacher gave out the mantras at the
end of the course, as a "graduation ceremony," and he wore
a robe during the initiations.


 
> http://www.alternet.org/economy/transcendental-meditation-how-i-paid-2500-password-inner-peace
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Inner Peace

[Richard J. Williams]

Michael Jackson:
> A beautifully written article about TM and the race to inner space.
>
How I Paid $2,500 For a
Password to Inner Peace

"The more you give, the more people we can help. It's that simple."
-Rama
http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired