[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
TurquoiseB wrote: A boy loves his dog... Leave it to Vaj and Turq to completely miss the real meaning of the myth, namely, that the Kukkuripa went into the cave to meditate - that's the point. It really isn't just a story about a boy and his dog. And of course the 'Paradise of the Dakinis' isn't heaven - there are no enlightened sages in Brahma's 'Heaven of the thirty-three'. Siddhas do not aspire to get into heaven - siddhas are immortal and aspire to go to Siddhaloka, the 'other shore' of the Transcendent. What's overlooked by the Vaj and the Turq is that the Mahasiddhas all practiced a meditation that is transcendental, just like we TMers practice. These two don't want to admit this, but all the tantriks sidhas were transcendentalists. 19. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audible as feeling deepens into this silent harmony. - Bairava Tantra It was the Mahasiddhas who instituted the practices that birthed the Inner Tantras of Dzogchen practiced by the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism. The other schools of Tibetan Buddhism and other Vajrayana Buddhists such as Shingon Buddhism practice Mahamudra meditation, also a practice initiated by the original Buddhist Mahasiddha. Mahasiddha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha According to Lama Govinda: While we are able to come to an understanding of relativity by way of reasoning, the experience of universality and completeness can be attained only when all conceptual thought, all word-thinking, has come to rest. The realization of the transcendent can come about only in the experience of meditative practice, through a transformation of our consciousness. Work cited: 'Creative Meditation and Multi-dimensional Conciousness' by Lama Anagarika Govinda Theosophical Publishing House, 1976 Author of 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism', 'Way of the White Clouds', etc. Read more: Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.meditation, alt.yoga From: Willytex Date: Sun, Nov 23 2003 10:43 am Subject: Secrets of the Vajra World http://tinyurl.com/dxfhwp
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--Nityananda says that to be granted access to Siddhaloka, one must have dissolved mortal awareness into the OM. Nityananda: http://www.cosmicharmony.com/Av/Nityanan/Nityanan.htm - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: A boy loves his dog... Leave it to Vaj and Turq to completely miss the real meaning of the myth, namely, that the Kukkuripa went into the cave to meditate - that's the point. It really isn't just a story about a boy and his dog. And of course the 'Paradise of the Dakinis' isn't heaven - there are no enlightened sages in Brahma's 'Heaven of the thirty-three'. Siddhas do not aspire to get into heaven - siddhas are immortal and aspire to go to Siddhaloka, the 'other shore' of the Transcendent. What's overlooked by the Vaj and the Turq is that the Mahasiddhas all practiced a meditation that is transcendental, just like we TMers practice. These two don't want to admit this, but all the tantriks sidhas were transcendentalists. 19. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audible as feeling deepens into this silent harmony. - Bairava Tantra It was the Mahasiddhas who instituted the practices that birthed the Inner Tantras of Dzogchen practiced by the Nyingma school of Tibetan Buddhism. The other schools of Tibetan Buddhism and other Vajrayana Buddhists such as Shingon Buddhism practice Mahamudra meditation, also a practice initiated by the original Buddhist Mahasiddha. Mahasiddha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha According to Lama Govinda: While we are able to come to an understanding of relativity by way of reasoning, the experience of universality and completeness can be attained only when all conceptual thought, all word-thinking, has come to rest. The realization of the transcendent can come about only in the experience of meditative practice, through a transformation of our consciousness. Work cited: 'Creative Meditation and Multi-dimensional Conciousness' by Lama Anagarika Govinda Theosophical Publishing House, 1976 Author of 'Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism', 'Way of the White Clouds', etc. Read more: Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.meditation, alt.yoga From: Willytex Date: Sun, Nov 23 2003 10:43 am Subject: Secrets of the Vajra World http://tinyurl.com/dxfhwp
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. . . . But his heavenly hosts urged him to stay, saying: How can you even think about returning to a dog in a dark cave when you are enjoying our good favor and every luxury and comfort we can offer? Don't be so foolish --remain with us here. Time and time again, Kukkuripa allowed himself to be persuaded. But one day when he looked down from the Thirty-three Heavens, he realized that his loyal dog was pining for him - her eyes were sad, her tail drooped, and she was so thin he could see her ribs. Kukkuripa's heart ached for her. Then and there he descended from paradise to rejoin her in the cave. The dog leaped and pranced with joy when she caught sight of her beloved master. But no sooner did he sit down and begin to scratch her favorite spot, just behind the ears, than she vanished from sight! There before him, wreathed in a cloud of glory, stood a radiantly beautiful Dakini. Well done! she cried. Well done! You have proved your worth by overcoming temptation. Now that you have returned, supreme power is yours. You have learned that the mundane power of the gods is delusory, for they still retain the notion of self. Theirs' is the realm of fallible pleasure. But now your Dakini can grant you supreme realization -- immaculate pleasure without end. While this is a neat story, and I applaud his decision to return to the dog in the cave rather than dwell among the full-of- self heavenly hosts, isn't the guy being advised here by Just Another Bitch? I mean, she's talking about granting the guy supreme power and pleasure without end. *HER* power and realization are so much cooler than *THEIR* power and real- ization, after all. And she's just as much relative as the heavenly hosts were. Seems to me that the writer of this tale was unaware of the old saying, From the frying pan into the fire. :-) Then she taught him how to achieve the symbolic union of skillful means and perfect insight. As an irreversible, infallible vision of immutability arose in his mindstream, he did indeed attain the state of supreme realization. Vaj, I'm just goofing on this story to see if you're able to see it in another light. While it's cool, and its basic metaphor and teaching is valid and I was rooting big-time for the dog in this scenario, in the end when the dog became a Dakini the whole tale became just another My Teaching's Dick Is Longer Than Your Teaching's Dick story. The heavenly hosts' supreme realization just wasn't supreme enough. I think it would have been a cooler story if the dog had stayed a dog, and she hadn't trans- formed into just another bitch with a power fixation. :-) Renowned as Guru Kukkuripa, the Dog Lover, he returned to Kapilavastu, where he lived a long life of selfless service. Here was the real moral of the story. Too bad it had to be weakened by the last line: And in due time, he ascended to the Paradise of the Dakinis with a vast entourage of disciples. So he's back in the same place he was talked out of before, in a relative paradise full of relative beings who still believe in the value of power and having an entourage. It's like the Dakini was Madonna, and rescued him from lesser entourages at the lesser nightspots of the SO not-chi-chi-enough thirty-three sensual heavens so that he could experience a higher entourage in all the best night- spots of Brahmaloka. :-) I think it would have been a better story if the original writer had just snipped all the stuff about the Dakini and left it with the guy realizing that caring about his dog was enough, and that a life of selfless service was enough. Leave heaven and paradise and entourages to those who find value in those things. A boy loves his dog. :-) :-) :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N-arXkfZds
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
Just to have more fun chasing this dog... :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: Renowned as Guru Kukkuripa, the Dog Lover, he returned to Kapilavastu, where he lived a long life of selfless service. Here was the real moral of the story. Too bad it had to be weakened by the last line: And in due time, he ascended to the Paradise of the Dakinis with a vast entourage of disciples. I'm going to riff on this story again because it's a perfect example of ruining a great story with a cheap-ass ending. I *understand* the times in which this story was written, and the superstitious nature of the people it was written *for*. And so I cut the author of the story some slack, because he was trying to present a case for living a life of selfless service to superstitious people by painting a rosy picture of the payoff that awaits one in the afterlife if you do that. While that's one way of telling a spiritual story, part of me wishes that someday someone would tell the story of selfless service *without* the afterlife payoff angle, and even without the enlightenment payoff angle. When you come right down to it, how is this story any different than Christian stories promising Christians life in a Christian heaven after death? Or Muslim stories promising Muslims life in a Muslim heaven (and with a bunch of virgins thrown in as a sign-up bonus) after their deaths? Or Hindu stories promising Hindus life in Brahmaloka, cavorting with the gods and goddesses? Or even Buddhist stories, promising Buddhists a higher rebirth after their deaths? All of these promises are to promote the idea of the value of living a life of selfless service. And yet how do they sell it? By talking about the payoff that living a life of selfless ser- vice will result in. That payoff is either enlightenment, or some glorious cool place to live after death. Seems to me that these storytellers have missed the point. The real payoff of leading a life of selfless service is...Duh!...leading a life of selfless service. Selfless service is a HIGH! Selfless service is ENOUGH in itself! It provides a payoff EVERY SINGLE DAY, not at some unspecified time in the future, or after death. Stories like this one about Kukkuripa, while neat and uplifting on one level, always tend to make me a little sad because the original storytellers so obviously missed the whole *point* of selfless service. They felt they had to sell it like a new car by talking about the bells and whistles of the shiny new Selfless Servicemobile. Drive this car and *someday* you'll gain supreme power. Drive this car and *someday* you'll gain supreme realization. Drive this car and *someday* you'll gain immaculate pleasure without end. Someday I'd like to see a story that allows the car to just sell itself: Drive the Selfless Servicemobile and you'll enjoy the drive, every day. No waiting for fulfillment 'someday' in the form of enlightenment, or in a cool afterlife. Nope, the 'payoff' of driving a Selfless Service- mobile is Right Here, Right Now, in the joy of driving it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. If it's kukkuriipa, the name prolly means 'protecting'(-pa) a 'bitch' (female dog: kukkurii)...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
On Mar 22, 2009, at 3:51 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Then she taught him how to achieve the symbolic union of skillful means and perfect insight. As an irreversible, infallible vision of immutability arose in his mindstream, he did indeed attain the state of supreme realization. Vaj, I'm just goofing on this story to see if you're able to see it in another light. While it's cool, and its basic metaphor and teaching is valid and I was rooting big-time for the dog in this scenario, in the end when the dog became a Dakini the whole tale became just another My Teaching's Dick Is Longer Than Your Teaching's Dick story. The heavenly hosts' supreme realization just wasn't supreme enough. The basic gist of the Mahasiddhas--murderers, whores, liars, etc. who all became fully enlightened, isn't to be a My Teaching's Dick Is Longer Than Your Teaching's Dick story but instead to show that any degree of embeddedness in neurosis can be released if the skillful diagnosis and cure is given. Once anyone can see their real condition, they can be free. Actually the dog in the story represents a play on the Sanskrit word kukkura, which while meaning dog, or more specifically bitch, also means a low caste person, an untouchable person. The idea of a Brahmin therefore hanging out with dogs is meant to be a mindfuck for the uptight Vedic snobs by playing with their limitations on what is clean or unclean, acceptable or unacceptable. Kukkuripa is therefore the Universal Buddha of the downtrodden: the untouchables, the homeless street people, the poor and the marginalized of any society.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
On Mar 22, 2009, at 5:34 AM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. If it's kukkuriipa, the name prolly means 'protecting'(-pa) a 'bitch' (female dog: kukkurii)... Protector of the Untouchable. His other names were Shantibhadra (zAntibhadra) and Kukkuraja (King of the Dogs = King of the Untouchables).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
On Mar 22, 2009, at 2:51 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: While this is a neat story, and I applaud his decision to return to the dog in the cave rather than dwell among the full-of- self heavenly hosts, isn't the guy being advised here by Just Another Bitch? We're all over the place, Barry...get used to it. :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 21, 2009, at 10:19 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. [Kukkuripa thanka] Kukkuripa, The Dog Lover Kukkuripa - Sanskrit meaning: Guarding from, and dissapating the degenerate goblin What makes you think his name is in Sanskrit? Er...because it is Sanskrit. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 22, 2009, at 5:34 AM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. If it's kukkuriipa, the name prolly means 'protecting'(-pa) a 'bitch' (female dog: kukkurii)... Protector of the Untouchable. His other names were Shantibhadra (zAntibhadra) and Kukkuraja (King of the Dogs = King of the Untouchables). Kukkuriipa - Sanskrit meaning: Guarding from, and vanquishing the degenerate goblin Kukkuraja - Sanskrit meaning: Master of the Deficients or Welcomer/Comfortor of the Deficients OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 22, 2009, at 5:34 AM, cardemaister wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. If it's kukkuriipa, the name prolly means 'protecting'(-pa) a 'bitch' (female dog: kukkurii)... Protector of the Untouchable. His other names were Shantibhadra (zAntibhadra) and Kukkuraja (King of the Dogs = King of the Untouchables). Kukkuripa - Sanskrit meaning: Guarding from, and vanquishing the degenerate goblin Kukkuraja - Sanskrit meaning: Master of the Deficients or Welcomer/comfortor of the Deficients OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. [Kukkuripa thanka] Kukkuripa, The Dog Lover Kukkuripa - Sanskrit meaning: Guarding from, and dissapating the degenerate goblin OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Dog-Lover Mahasiddha
On Mar 21, 2009, at 10:19 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: One of the greatest Mahasiddhas of India and Himalayas was a dog- lover, the saint Kukkuripa. [Kukkuripa thanka] Kukkuripa, The Dog Lover Kukkuripa - Sanskrit meaning: Guarding from, and dissapating the degenerate goblin What makes you think his name is in Sanskrit? Since Kukkuripa was known to have vastly different appearances to those who visited him: in some cases he appeared as a bird with his head tucked under his wing, to others, a monkey, many consider him to have attained an immortal illusory light-body early on--what we might today call a shapeshifter. Using this, he could shatter people's illusory perceptions and awaken them beyond their prejudices of clean and unclean. Given that when one of the greatest saints of Asia approached him for teachings on the tantra of Great Illusion, he was instead given all the other unheard of teachings on mahamaya, one could easily conclude that he deeply knew a lot about illusory appearances.
