Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I agree. Even worse Barry equates his denial, with non-attachment, and thus convinces himself of his spiritual progress. However, he is making it increasingly clear, on here, by his overheated attempts at retribution, that he is fiercely attached to getting even, which is the polar opposite of letting go. He is kind of fascinating to watch, as an object lesson in ego-blindness. A very fragile, and unstable personality, that one. The fact that most here have bawee figured out will not make a difference to him. He has only one strategy and as pitiful and pathetic as it is we must accept him for the fact he can't seem to do more than this. It's like a guy who possesses one golf club in his golf bag and it is a 9 iron. Leaving the tee on a 450 yard hole is just not gonna get him to the green in less than 9 strokes. The least we could do is walk slowly to let him catch up as he duffs his way down the fairway. God only knows how he's gonna be able to putt with that thing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I don't think Barry is even aware of it when his buttons have been pushed. It's a kind of denial. Just in general, Barry is seriously deficient in self-knowledge; he can't see his own patterns that are so obvious to the rest of us. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I just find it odd, that Barry seems to feel he has monopoly on this button pushing thing. I guess you can define having your buttons pushed, in number of different ways. A person says something you disagree with, and you respond. Did you just get your buttons pushed? Somebody says something in a way that denigrates you, (or someone else), which could have been said in much less confrontational way, and you object to it. Did you just get your buttons pushed? You are a thinking, feeling human being, and someone says something insensitive, or designed to insult you, and you have a reaction, if only for a moment. Did you just get your buttons pushed? I guess for Barry, it is a mark of distinction to claim, I never get my buttons pushed Or how 'bout. I ain't got no stinkin buttons to be pushed Ookaay.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 8:47 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' How many TM practitioners on Fairfield City Council besides the mayor? And what is their position on the Heartland Coop? And what position has MUM taken on the issue? John Revolinski and Connie Boyer. John probably opposes it. Don’t know about Connie. Not aware of MUM having taken a position. _ From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com mailto:r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' A tape of that session from Rick's TTC was probably the one I saw on the second phase of my TTC and was called Other Techniques. My tantra teacher and I would often go to visit other teachers in the area. My TTC was Estes Park. Just audio taped, not videotaped. But I believe such a session was held on every TTC, and probably still is. On 06/03/2014 08:59 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com mailto:r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Agreed - good analogy, too. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I agree. Even worse Barry equates his denial, with non-attachment, and thus convinces himself of his spiritual progress. However, he is making it increasingly clear, on here, by his overheated attempts at retribution, that he is fiercely attached to getting even, which is the polar opposite of letting go. He is kind of fascinating to watch, as an object lesson in ego-blindness. A very fragile, and unstable personality, that one. The fact that most here have bawee figured out will not make a difference to him. He has only one strategy and as pitiful and pathetic as it is we must accept him for the fact he can't seem to do more than this. It's like a guy who possesses one golf club in his golf bag and it is a 9 iron. Leaving the tee on a 450 yard hole is just not gonna get him to the green in less than 9 strokes. The least we could do is walk slowly to let him catch up as he duffs his way down the fairway. God only knows how he's gonna be able to putt with that thing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I don't think Barry is even aware of it when his buttons have been pushed. It's a kind of denial. Just in general, Barry is seriously deficient in self-knowledge; he can't see his own patterns that are so obvious to the rest of us. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I just find it odd, that Barry seems to feel he has monopoly on this button pushing thing. I guess you can define having your buttons pushed, in number of different ways. A person says something you disagree with, and you respond. Did you just get your buttons pushed? Somebody says something in a way that denigrates you, (or someone else), which could have been said in much less confrontational way, and you object to it. Did you just get your buttons pushed? You are a thinking, feeling human being, and someone says something insensitive, or designed to insult you, and you have a reaction, if only for a moment. Did you just get your buttons pushed? I guess for Barry, it is a mark of distinction to claim, I never get my buttons pushed Or how 'bout. I ain't got no stinkin buttons to be pushed Ookaay.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Don't you guys who oppose this thing think it might be a mighty good idea to find out where the TM council members including the mayor stand? And especially MUM? Even tho its a university the fact that they are there, drawing in faulty, staff, and especially students plus the money they spend in the community makes them a force to be reckoned with locally. If MUM opposed the coop, that would add weight to the opposition. If they didn't take a position on it, it would be rather irresponsible of them not to do so as a matter of community. On the other hand, I imagine the Heartland people are not above making a fat monetary contribution to the school to ensure their support or at least their silence on the matter which would mean mayor and both council members would be mum on the issue also, no pun intended. Be a good idea to find out where MUM stands. As much of a force as it is in the community, they stand to be your greatest ally or greatest Judas. From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:29 AM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 8:47 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' How many TM practitioners on Fairfield City Council besides the mayor? And what is their position on the Heartland Coop? And what position has MUM taken on the issue? John Revolinski and Connie Boyer. John probably opposes it. Don’t know about Connie. Not aware of MUM having taken a position. From:'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' A tape of that session from Rick's TTC was probably the one I saw on the second phase of my TTC and was called Other Techniques. My tantra teacher and I would often go to visit other teachers in the area. My TTC was Estes Park. Just audio taped, not videotaped. But I believe such a session was held on every TTC, and probably still is. On 06/03/2014 08:59 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From:'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/4/2014 6:27 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Don't you guys who oppose this thing think it might be a mighty good idea to find out where the TM council members including the mayor stand? And especially MUM? Even tho its a university the fact that they are there, drawing in faulty, staff, and especially students plus the money they spend in the community makes them a force to be reckoned with locally. /Addressing the important issues!/ Apparently some people in FF and Vedic City are worried that some GMO dust might get blown their way from the proposed food co-op grain silo. This sounds really serious, /compared to eliminating food deserts in towns./ Down here, people are concerned about where and how they will be able to afford ordinary groceries. These days you go into a grocery store and get a few measly bags of food and it costs you almost $50. The rent is too damn high!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are we to believe that you are better off than they? I am going to speculate that many, like myself, practice the techniques we learned from MMY in a way that suits our routine. I am going to speculate that our time with MMY opened the door to a spiritual awareness that we are grateful to have found. And I am going to speculate that we look upon that period as time well spent and feel fortunate to have had the darshan of MMY either in person, or at a distance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone would remain silent and not speak up, because *the example had been made*. The one time I saw a couple of people speak up for someone he'd just excommunicated (Walter Bellin), and point out that none of the nasty things Maharishi was saying about him were true, Maharishi reacted by kicking them out, too. To repeat something I said earlier, this behavior is UNUSUAL in spiritual practice.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Now Geezer! How could you say such things! According to our very own Nappy Nabby, such things are scurrilous lies, rumors started by the much hated Rick Archer (hated by Nabby). From: geezerfr...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 10:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' That may have been what YOU heard Lawson but I am reporting what he told me personally and he knew I was married at the time. I asked him about celibacy and he responded it would be good to do. What I did not know at the time was that he was sexually active with several other women during this time, roughly mid 1973. Eh, he may or may not have been celibate, but in fact, all *I* ever heard on the matter from TM teachers was that Maharishi thought that celibacy was the fastest way to attain enlightenment, but that for those who were not comfortable with being celibate, the strain of doing something unnatural for them was worse than any benefit that might be gained. In that case, he advocated a stable relationship, perferably in the form of marriage. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak@... wrote : Well put. Further, let's not forget that his jealously was not limited to followers seeing other teachers. He also pushed celibacy while not practicing it himself. More for me, less for you. Clever, I suppose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. Thank goodness Barry, that you don't do this. I guess you something different here. ??? And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: What? What would you owe me? We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Look at thyself. You are just another bozo on the bus Barry. Just another informant with his own biases, his own POV. You push buttons, you get your own buttons pushed. End of story, as you say. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are we to believe that you are better off than they? I am going to speculate that many, like myself, practice the techniques we learned from MMY in a way that suits our routine. I am going to speculate that our time with MMY opened the door to a spiritual awareness that we are grateful to have found. And I am going to speculate that we look upon that period as time well spent and feel fortunate to have had the darshan of MMY either in person, or at a distance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Oh, that original content you talk so much about. I think that got swallowed up by this (your) other agenda. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. Thank goodness Barry, that you don't do this. I guess you something different here. ??? And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: What? What would you owe me? We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Look at thyself. You are just another bozo on the bus Barry. Just another informant with his own biases, his own POV. You push buttons, you get your own buttons pushed. End of story, as you say. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are we to believe that you are better off than they? I am going to speculate that many, like myself, practice the techniques we learned from MMY in a way that suits our routine. I am going to speculate that our time with MMY opened the door to a spiritual awareness that we are grateful to have found. And I am going to speculate that we look upon that period as time well spent and feel fortunate to have had the darshan of MMY either in person, or at a distance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Oh, that original content you talk so much about. I think that got swallowed up by this (your) other agenda. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. Thank goodness Barry, that you don't do this. I guess you something different here. ??? And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: What? What would you owe me? We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Look at thyself. You are just another bozo on the bus Barry. Just another informant with his own biases, his own POV. You push buttons, you get your own buttons pushed. End of story, as you say. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are we to believe that you are better off than they? I am going to speculate that many, like myself, practice the techniques we learned from MMY in a way that suits our routine. I am going to speculate that our time with MMY opened the door to a spiritual awareness that we are grateful to have found. And I am going to speculate that we look upon that period as time well spent and feel fortunate to have had the darshan of MMY either in person, or at a distance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. Lately you've turned into a whiny little bitch, doing exactly what I suggested that the TB TMers on this forum do -- out of habit, and because they've been trained to do so. They react to people who challenge either Maharishi's ideas or his carefully crafted image by attacking the critic. In this thread, you *never* dealt with the actual issue I brought up -- how Maharishi *treated* those who committed the sin of seeing other teachers. Instead, you stupidly asked for collaboration, even though it had already been provided to you by both Geezerfreak (a former TM teacher) and by Michael saying that my account jibed with what he had been told by other TM teachers he is in contact with. So what were you trying to accomplish? Here...let me explain it to you, since you don't seem to recognize it in yourself. You were reacting to a message you didn't want to hear by trying to impugn the character of the messenger (moi) and suggest that I was attempting to skew things in a particular way. Then you attempted to say that this was because my path in life hasn't worked out for me, simply because my interest in cults and cult thinking keeps me reading and posting to FFL. You've been doing this a LOT lately, which indicates to me that the things I've been saying have been pushing your buttons a LOT. I don't care what you believe. I'm not trying to convert you. I have stated my *opinion* of many long-term TMers on this forum often enough that you should know already what it is -- that they are cultists whose indoctrination over the decades has been so effective that they can't even recognize either that they're cultists, or that they were indoctrinated in the first place. I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. If you want to challenge my report of what Maharishi did -- repeatedly -- when excommunicating those who dared to exhibit normal, everyday curiosity by visiting other spiritual teachers, then go out and find your OWN reports of more benign behavior on the part of Maharishi and post it here. I doubt you'll be able to do so. If all you can do is play shoot the messenger, then I thank you for participating, by confirming my cultist thesis. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Oh, that original content you talk so much about. I think that got swallowed up by this (your) other agenda. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. Thank goodness Barry, that you don't do this. I guess you something different here. ??? And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: What? What would you owe me? We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Look at thyself. You are just another bozo on the bus Barry. Just another informant with his own biases, his own POV. You push buttons, you get your own buttons pushed. End of story, as you say. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Beauty. Classic bawee diatribe. In a nutshell: the conversation is over when he says it is. End of story. dismissiveness of the poster -wasn't even writing about you. divorces himself from and insults the poster simultaneously - I don't see that I owe you anything... uses his only technique to post here that gets him any attention - ...pushed your buttons. ridicules poster by using some hammer-headed quote by someone who sounds as ugly as bawee -We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. Nice work, buddy, you've managed to stay consistent and tiresome as always. How do you do it?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/2/2014 9:51 PM, geezerfr...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: C'mon Richard, you can do better than that. At least try and be clever. Let me rephrase what I wrote: If I was screwing a gal in my bedroom on my bed, and the skin boy was watching from the couch, then I'd say the skin boy was a voyeur was unstable, and not the two doing the screwing. Not to mention that most people who would accept skin boy status were anything but unstable in the first place. Go figure. If there was anyone in MMY's bedroom to actually know that he was screwing a gal, I'd say the voyeur was unstable, not the lovers. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : snip If all you can do is play shoot the messenger, then I thank you for participating, by confirming my cultist thesis. Glad to oblige Barry. Is it akin to hunting for truffles? Do you get like a boner when you get a confirmed Anyway, thank God for small pleasures. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Oh, that original content you talk so much about. I think that got swallowed up by this (your) other agenda. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I write what I write, and you react the way you react. End of story. Thank goodness Barry, that you don't do this. I guess you something different here. ??? And I wasn't even writing about you. Just some guy you once gave time and money to. I don't see that I owe you anything more just because something I wrote pushed your buttons. You're starting to sound like the type of person a favorite writer of mine was describing the other day: What? What would you owe me? We are dumb as fucking rocks, and know only one way to react, because thou hast written our trigger word. - Christopher Moore, Facebook Look at thyself. You are just another bozo on the bus Barry. Just another informant with his own biases, his own POV. You push buttons, you get your own buttons pushed. End of story, as you say. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:23 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Rereading, a couple points come to mind. It would be useful to get some collaboration for some of these recollections. As an informant, Barry, one must ask if you have a vested interest in skewing things in a particular way. On the other hand, one has to ask, how well whatever path you have chosen has worked for you Barry? I don't think you can deny that the interest you have in MMY's organization far exceeds any other spiritual interest you may have. Yes, I know it is not the technique, but the mindset of the dozen or so people who actively participate here. This is, as you say, one of your primary laboratories for study. But, hey, what about the many people who stayed on the program. Are they cult apologists? I mean, if you ask them, they would say that in most cases, they have gone on to live happy and fulfilling lives. Are we to believe that you are better off than they? I am going to speculate that many, like myself, practice the techniques we learned from MMY in a way that suits our routine. I am going to speculate that our time with MMY opened the door to a spiritual awareness that we are grateful to have found. And I am going to speculate that we look upon that period as time well spent and feel fortunate to have had the darshan of MMY either in person, or at a distance. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone would remain silent and not speak up, because *the example had been made*. The one time I saw a couple of people speak up for someone he'd just excommunicated (Walter Bellin), and point out that none of the nasty things Maharishi was saying about him were true, Maharishi reacted by kicking them out, too. To repeat something I said earlier, this behavior is UNUSUAL in spiritual practice. I have *never* encountered another spiritual teacher who did this. With Rama, and with any of the other Tibetan or Japanese teachers I've studied with, students were *encouraged* to visit other teachers, and learn whatever they were teaching. OF COURSE they were encouraged to do this -- why on earth would anyone want to stand in the way of normal, natural curiosity, otherwise known as the natural tendency of the mind? But Maharishi not only tried to stand in the way of this natural desire to learn more and expand one's spiritual experience, he PUNISHED people for doing it. These cult apologists trying to make it sound as if he was doing this for pragmatic business reasons WEREN'T THERE. They're just being cult
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Okay, I'm coming in late on this. Rick, thank you for your comments. Well, there we have a comment from an experienced teacher, who most likely had more face time with MMY, and cannot corroborate Barry's accounts, at least first hand, and has not said anything about a second hand account. I will likely have more to opine about it, but I see Barry now doubling down on more accusations, that evidently only he was a witness to. Now, when you challenge Barry about this, he plays the shoot the messenger card, when likely, to the rest of world, it is called qualifying the witness. Attempting to establish if the witness has a history of objectivity regarding the subject he is claiming to be an expert about, or is even capable of offering an objective opinion. And of course, it is rather humorous, that Barry calls as his expert witness, one Mr. Michael Jackson. Go figure. Gotta go. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: 'Rick Archer' rick@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Uh-oh. Judy's gone all purple-faced apoplectic and is sending empty messages again. :-) From: authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' A tape of that session from Rick's TTC was probably the one I saw on the second phase of my TTC and was called Other Techniques. My tantra teacher and I would often go to visit other teachers in the area. My TTC was Estes Park. Just audio taped, not videotaped. But I believe such a session was held on every TTC, and probably still is. On 06/03/2014 08:59 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com mailto:r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Excellent point, Steve. Barry (mis)uses his shoot the messenger shtick as an all-purpose rebuttal and excuse to dismiss a response, when in fact it rarely applies. To shoot the messenger implies that the message is valid and that there's no legitimate objection to it (originally, the phrase meant that the messenger himself was not responsible for the content of the message, which is not the case with Barry's messages, but leave that aside). When the message is delivered in such a way as to deliberately and gratuitously insult the recipient(s), the messenger deserves to be shot. Likewise if the veracity of the message is patently not true, or its negativity significantly and misleadingly exaggerated. And finally, if the messenger has a history of delivering false or exaggerated messages, as Barry does, he does not get the benefit of the doubt; he needs to be able to document the truthfulness of the current message if he wants to escape being shot. Plus which, of course, Barry routinely shoots the messenger when the message is not to his liking. Just say something even vaguely positive about anything TM-related, and presto, you're a brainwashed cult apologist, according to Barry. That goes double if you're offering your message as a rebuttal to Barry's. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Okay, I'm coming in late on this. Rick, thank you for your comments. Well, there we have a comment from an experienced teacher, who most likely had more face time with MMY, and cannot corroborate Barry's accounts, at least first hand, and has not said anything about a second hand account. I will likely have more to opine about it, but I see Barry now doubling down on more accusations, that evidently only he was a witness to. Now, when you challenge Barry about this, he plays the shoot the messenger card, when likely, to the rest of world, it is called qualifying the witness. Attempting to establish if the witness has a history of objectivity regarding the subject he is claiming to be an expert about, or is even capable of offering an objective opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Interesting. Now Barry is fantasizing that he sees purple-faced apoplexy in an empty message. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Uh-oh. Judy's gone all purple-faced apoplectic and is sending empty messages again. :-) From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
THIS is the post we all knew was coming, Judy, the one I referred to in advance as apoplectic. You don't recognize the pattern, but the rest of us do. Very often when you are in the midst of crafting what you're convinced is one of your stinging shoot the messenger putdowns, you jump the gun and push the Send button before you're finished. You're SO predictable. As was your response to me pointing it out, once you'd shat this one out and read my post. Gotcha. :-) Meanwhile, I notice that neither you nor anyone else has dealt with the real issue -- the fact that Maharishi felt he had the right to excommunicate anyone for going to see another teacher. You, of course, were never there to see it, but you know from traffic here that not only DID he do this, his movement CONTINUES to do it to this day. If you want to maintain the pretense of having credibility here, deal with that. SO much easier to ignore all that and try to cast aspersions on those pointing out Maharishi's faults, and those of the cult he created. Can you say cult apologist? I think you can... :-) :-) :-) From: authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Excellent point, Steve. Barry (mis)uses his shoot the messenger shtick as an all-purpose rebuttal and excuse to dismiss a response, when in fact it rarely applies. To shoot the messenger implies that the message is valid and that there's no legitimate objection to it (originally, the phrase meant that the messenger himself was not responsible for the content of the message, which is not the case with Barry's messages, but leave that aside). When the message is delivered in such a way as to deliberately and gratuitously insult the recipient(s), the messenger deserves to be shot. Likewise if the veracity of the message is patently not true, or its negativity significantly and misleadingly exaggerated. And finally, if the messenger has a history of delivering false or exaggerated messages, as Barry does, he does not get the benefit of the doubt; he needs to be able to document the truthfulness of the current message if he wants to escape being shot. Plus which, of course, Barry routinely shoots the messenger when the message is not to his liking. Just say something even vaguely positive about anything TM-related, and presto, you're a brainwashed cult apologist, according to Barry. That goes double if you're offering your message as a rebuttal to Barry's. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Okay, I'm coming in late on this. Rick, thank you for your comments. Well, there we have a comment from an experienced teacher, who most likely had more face time with MMY, and cannot corroborate Barry's accounts, at least first hand, and has not said anything about a second hand account. I will likely have more to opine about it, but I see Barry now doubling down on more accusations, that evidently only he was a witness to. Now, when you challenge Barry about this, he plays the shoot the messenger card, when likely, to the rest of world, it is called qualifying the witness. Attempting to establish if the witness has a history of objectivity regarding the subject he is claiming to be an expert about, or is even capable of offering an objective opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/3/2014 12:24 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Interesting. Now Barry is fantasizing that he sees purple-faced apoplexy in an empty message. This is about the time people like Barry start getting really paranoid, seeing things even on a blank canvas. It's probably one of the side-effects of being in a trance-induction state for so many years. It starts out innocently enough - seeing somebody up on stage apparently able levitate and hover in mid-air. Then the condition just gets worse and worse after that. Next thing the know is that they begin to be obsessive about some things, such as reading particular newsgroup on the internet, at the exact same time of day or night, seated in a certain chair at a certain cafe in town, usually in the corner in back, but sometimes out on the sidewalk, with a particular person in mind. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Uh-oh. Judy's gone all purple-faced apoplectic and is sending empty messages again. :-) --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Has anyone asked the Heartland folks why they want to locate the facility in that particular location? It is so close to town, it seems logical to locate it in a more rural location. From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' A tape of that session from Rick's TTC was probably the one I saw on the second phase of my TTC and was called Other Techniques. My tantra teacher and I would often go to visit other teachers in the area. My TTC was Estes Park. Just audio taped, not videotaped. But I believe such a session was held on every TTC, and probably still is. On 06/03/2014 08:59 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From:'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Uh, Barry dear, if I had jumped the gun and sent the message while I was in the midst of writing it, it wouldn't have been an empty message, now, would it? OOPSIE. To what emotional state should I attribute this laughable mistake? And it isn't very often that I do what you describe in any case; it's only once in a long while. Plus which, the subsequent post was hardly apoplectic. It really isn't the case that every post criticizing you is generated by apoplectic rage. That you perceived it that way says more about you and your ultrasensitive buttons than it does about me. Not to mention that the empty post couldn't have been connected with the one you perceived to be apoplectic. It didn't take me 25 minutes to write three paragraphs. And finally, how do you expect me to deal with the real issue? I acknowledge that it exists, and I've said before I don't like it. I might also note that you've failed entirely to deal with your misuse of the shoot the messenger analogy, which I've mentioned before several times. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : THIS is the post we all knew was coming, Judy, the one I referred to in advance as apoplectic. You don't recognize the pattern, but the rest of us do. Very often when you are in the midst of crafting what you're convinced is one of your stinging shoot the messenger putdowns, you jump the gun and push the Send button before you're finished. You're SO predictable. As was your response to me pointing it out, once you'd shat this one out and read my post. Gotcha. :-) Meanwhile, I notice that neither you nor anyone else has dealt with the real issue -- the fact that Maharishi felt he had the right to excommunicate anyone for going to see another teacher. You, of course, were never there to see it, but you know from traffic here that not only DID he do this, his movement CONTINUES to do it to this day. If you want to maintain the pretense of having credibility here, deal with that. SO much easier to ignore all that and try to cast aspersions on those pointing out Maharishi's faults, and those of the cult he created. Can you say cult apologist? I think you can... :-) :-) :-) From: authfriend@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' Excellent point, Steve. Barry (mis)uses his shoot the messenger shtick as an all-purpose rebuttal and excuse to dismiss a response, when in fact it rarely applies. To shoot the messenger implies that the message is valid and that there's no legitimate objection to it (originally, the phrase meant that the messenger himself was not responsible for the content of the message, which is not the case with Barry's messages, but leave that aside). When the message is delivered in such a way as to deliberately and gratuitously insult the recipient(s), the messenger deserves to be shot. Likewise if the veracity of the message is patently not true, or its negativity significantly and misleadingly exaggerated. And finally, if the messenger has a history of delivering false or exaggerated messages, as Barry does, he does not get the benefit of the doubt; he needs to be able to document the truthfulness of the current message if he wants to escape being shot. Plus which, of course, Barry routinely shoots the messenger when the message is not to his liking. Just say something even vaguely positive about anything TM-related, and presto, you're a brainwashed cult apologist, according to Barry. That goes double if you're offering your message as a rebuttal to Barry's. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Okay, I'm coming in late on this. Rick, thank you for your comments. Well, there we have a comment from an experienced teacher, who most likely had more face time with MMY, and cannot corroborate Barry's accounts, at least first hand, and has not said anything about a second hand account. I will likely have more to opine about it, but I see Barry now doubling down on more accusations, that evidently only he was a witness to. Now, when you challenge Barry about this, he plays the shoot the messenger card, when likely, to the rest of world, it is called qualifying the witness. Attempting to establish if the witness has a history of objectivity regarding the subject he is claiming to be an expert about, or is even capable of offering an objective opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Can you even imagine the horrifying alternative, Steve? Barry, removed from his creative history, must actually face who he is. He probably soils himself, just thinking about it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Okay, I'm coming in late on this. Rick, thank you for your comments. Well, there we have a comment from an experienced teacher, who most likely had more face time with MMY, and cannot corroborate Barry's accounts, at least first hand, and has not said anything about a second hand account. I will likely have more to opine about it, but I see Barry now doubling down on more accusations, that evidently only he was a witness to. Now, when you challenge Barry about this, he plays the shoot the messenger card, when likely, to the rest of world, it is called qualifying the witness. Attempting to establish if the witness has a history of objectivity regarding the subject he is claiming to be an expert about, or is even capable of offering an objective opinion. And of course, it is rather humorous, that Barry calls as his expert witness, one Mr. Michael Jackson. Go figure. Gotta go. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: 'Rick Archer' rick@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/3/2014 9:14 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. So, in a way /we are helping Barry/ when we read and reply to his messages. I always thought that this was the real purpose of FFL - to help each other understand the mechanics of consciousness and to share information about our beliefs /and what we did yesterday./ If this activity is beneficial to Barry, I'm available to help him with his social problems by posting some more messages for him to read so he can get some inspiration. I've been holding back because I didn't want to butt in about what the Maharishi was REALLY doing in there with those gals, way back when. So, I know how lonely it can get over there when you're an expat or a military brat and you don't fit in. When I was over there in Britain, I wanted to be a /Teddy Boy/, but they wouldn't let Yanks in. So, I just rode around on my Raleigh bicycle in my spare time. Apparently Barry does a lot of walking. Maybe he could join a group of skin-head bikers. Go figure. The simple act of keying in a few phrases may be just what Barry needs to keep his sanity. From what I've read, immigrants are not very popular over there in Leiden or Amsterdam. Somebody told me they have whole neighborhoods with just Muslims living in them. Apparently they once had an /Eight Years War/ there to get rid of the Spaniards. It sounds complicated when you read about it on Wikipedia. So, maybe Barry just wants to let everyone know that he /still exists as a person/. Maybe he doesn't want to be forgotten, or he wants to be somebody, anybody, and be remembered, at least for a day or two. Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, Judy. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/3/2014 8:54 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: As I said, much of what you accuse of others of being can be applied to you as well. Nuff said. Gotta go. For some basic-TMers, Barry *IS* the TMO. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. I think he should change his name, to Barry Buttons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/3/2014 3:10 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Has anyone asked the Heartland folks why they want to locate the facility in that particular location? It is so close to town, it seems logical to locate it in a more rural location. Close to town? That's where the people that eat food are, you idiot! You need to get some smarts - in the future there's not going to be any fuel to put in cars to drive to the country to get food. Food stores need to be located in town so the people can walk or take public transportation to the grocery store. Who wants to drive down a dusty, gravel road to get a squash? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I just find it odd, that Barry seems to feel he has monopoly on this button pushing thing. I guess you can define having your buttons pushed, in number of different ways. A person says something you disagree with, and you respond. Did you just get your buttons pushed? Somebody says something in a way that denigrates you, (or someone else), which could have been said in much less confrontational way, and you object to it. Did you just get your buttons pushed? You are a thinking, feeling human being, and someone says something insensitive, or designed to insult you, and you have a reaction, if only for a moment. Did you just get your buttons pushed? I guess for Barry, it is a mark of distinction to claim, I never get my buttons pushed Or how 'bout. I ain't got no stinkin buttons to be pushed Ookaay. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Yes, we all heard the story of Muktananda. And okay, MMY claiming the TM was superior is quite a bit different than the accounts Barry has related of MMY acting the role of a petty tyrant banishing anyone who strayed, and then as though saying ANYONE ELSE? to the huddled crowd. Could it be Barry is conflating Tony Soprano with MMY. I mean, there are some physical similarities. P.S. I never saw one episode, or even one minute of The Sopranos, but I know what Tony Soprano looked like. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone would remain silent and not speak up, because *the example had been made*. The one time I saw a couple of people speak up for someone he'd just excommunicated (Walter Bellin), and point out that none of the nasty things Maharishi was saying about him were true, Maharishi reacted by kicking them out, too. To repeat something I said earlier, this behavior is UNUSUAL in spiritual practice. I have *never* encountered another spiritual teacher who did this. With Rama, and with any of the other Tibetan or Japanese teachers I've studied with, students
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. Why does this matter to you? Why? Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 Esurance Commercial - 'Beatrice' To save time, Beatrice is posting her photos to her wall. Literally. Fortun... View on www.youtube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Preview by Yahoo From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone would remain silent and not speak up, because *the example had been made*. The one time I saw a couple of people speak up for someone he'd just excommunicated (Walter Bellin), and point out that none of the nasty things Maharishi was saying about him were true, Maharishi reacted by kicking them out, too. To repeat something I said earlier, this behavior is UNUSUAL in spiritual practice. I have *never* encountered another spiritual teacher who did this. With Rama, and with any of the other Tibetan or Japanese teachers I've studied with, students were *encouraged* to visit other teachers, and learn whatever they were teaching. OF COURSE they were encouraged to do this -- why on earth would anyone want to stand in the way of normal,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Look, I like Barry. I really do, but how bout, Barry Bilbo Baggins Edward Snowden Wright! P.S. I am one who really likes nicknames. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. I think he should change his name, to Barry Buttons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I don't think Barry is even aware of it when his buttons have been pushed. It's a kind of denial. Just in general, Barry is seriously deficient in self-knowledge; he can't see his own patterns that are so obvious to the rest of us. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I just find it odd, that Barry seems to feel he has monopoly on this button pushing thing. I guess you can define having your buttons pushed, in number of different ways. A person says something you disagree with, and you respond. Did you just get your buttons pushed? Somebody says something in a way that denigrates you, (or someone else), which could have been said in much less confrontational way, and you object to it. Did you just get your buttons pushed? You are a thinking, feeling human being, and someone says something insensitive, or designed to insult you, and you have a reaction, if only for a moment. Did you just get your buttons pushed? I guess for Barry, it is a mark of distinction to claim, I never get my buttons pushed Or how 'bout. I ain't got no stinkin buttons to be pushed Ookaay. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Why Bilbo Baggins? Do you suspect Barry of having hairy feet? I would like to work Walter Mitty in there, somehow... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Look, I like Barry. I really do, but how bout, Barry Bilbo Baggins Edward Snowden Wright! P.S. I am one who really likes nicknames. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. I think he should change his name, to Barry Buttons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Think about it, Steve: Barry projects an image of a global bon vivant, but so far remains largely alone. He has bashed every country and town he has lived in, once he leaves, along with any job he has held, since moving to Europe. If I were Barry, God forbid, I'd be all over Maharishi's shorts, too, vs. soberly facing my current life, and future. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. Why does this matter to you? Why? Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Esurance 'Beatrice' Commercial 2014 Esurance Commercial - 'Beatrice' To save time, Beatrice is posting her photos to her wall. Literally. Fortun... View on www.youtube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5fn087Jk4I Preview by Yahoo From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many people as possible, to make an example of them. If they didn't do that, and saw nothing wrong with their actions, he would *seemingly* graciously tell them to leave, and go with this other teacher. Then, the minute they left the room, he would start bad-mouthing the former student and saying nasty things about them. He'd also tell the people left in the room all about the terrible, horrible karmic things that were going to happen to these sinners for having fallen and wandered away from the highest path. None of this had *anything* to do with any of these people threatening the organization, or even the other teachers being any kind of threat. It had to do with Maharishi's Victorian-era ideas of devotion to the teacher. He wanted them to think of him as if they were *married* to him, and to believe that even *thinking* of seeing someone else was equivalent to cheating on him. In other words, he was Just Another Insecure Guy, wanting to be the One And Only for his students, forever. Once the offending cheaters had been sent away, he'd often lie about them mercilessly, telling stories that many of us in the room *knew* not to be true. But everyone would remain silent and not speak up, because *the example had been made*. The one time I saw a couple of people speak up for someone he'd just excommunicated (Walter Bellin), and point out that none of the nasty things Maharishi was saying about him were true, Maharishi reacted by kicking them out, too. To repeat something I
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
How many TM practitioners on Fairfield City Council besides the mayor? And what is their position on the Heartland Coop? And what position has MUM taken on the issue? From: 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:58 PM Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:54 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' A tape of that session from Rick's TTC was probably the one I saw on the second phase of my TTC and was called Other Techniques. My tantra teacher and I would often go to visit other teachers in the area. My TTC was Estes Park. Just audio taped, not videotaped. But I believe such a session was held on every TTC, and probably still is. On 06/03/2014 08:59 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From:'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com I never witnessed anything as intense as what Barry relates, but on our TTC, part of the training was an evening in which we brought up every other teacher/path/practice we could think of and Maharishi explained how and why TM was superior. A rather odd thing to do in itself, if you think about it, but it's part of a larger pattern -- give TM teachers pat answers to parrot whenever a question arises. The more often they hear them and repeat them, the more they come to actually believe them. I remember in one small meeting on my TTC when he gave such a pat answer about a technique that someone in the audience of prospective TM teachers had actually practiced before starting TM. The fellow stood up and said -- politely -- that Maharishi was wrong in what he said, and that the practice in question had *nothing* to do with the way that Maharishi had described it. The person saying this was sent home the next day, and was never allowed to became a teacher. At a later meeting on the same course, Maharishi repeated the same incorrect putdown of that technique, now fully aware that it wasn't true. Also, when Muktananda came to Seelisberg, after he left, MMY reportedly addressed his students in a way that suggested he was a bit nervous they might have found Muktananda more alluring than he, and be tempted to change camps. I know someone from the Rama trip who was a Muktananda student, and who was actually present at one of those meetings with Maharishi. Suffice it to say that none of Muktananda's students needed such a talking to, because were completely underwhelmed by Maharishi. From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 2:09 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' I just skimmed this, and want to read it more carefully later. Your primary involvement predated mine. I had the opportunity to see MMY personally many times, but usually not in a small group, and usually not for administrative issues. But never during my time did this issue of seeing other teachers come up. I think it would be be helpful if we heard from another teacher who had the opportunity for personal interaction such as Rick. The charges you make are pretty strong, and I think they bear a vetting by someone who may have a less prejudiced attitude. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : To provide some counterpoint to the chorus of excuses and cult apologetics spouted lately by people like Jim, Judy, and Lawson, who were *never there* to see how Maharishi dealt with those who committed the Cardinal Sin of seeing other teachers, I'll provide a bit more information. After all, unlike these poseurs, I really *was* there, for many years, and sat in rooms with Maharishi as he lit into *dozens* of people for this supposed sin. They weren't. They never even met Maharishi, and were never a part of his organization. My considered opinion is that he did this because he was -- in two words -- JEALOUS and INSECURE. He wanted students who had never known any other spiritual teacher than himself. In a sense he was *exactly* like those sad men who want to marry a virgin, so they can (theoretically) forever avoid being compared to another lover, and be found wanting. In the encounters I witnessed, Maharishi reacted to someone seeing another teacher exactly the way an insecure husband reacts to his wife getting caught checkin' out another handsome man. He was livid. His first reaction was to try to make the person who had committed such a sin APOLOGIZE and grovel in front of him, hopefully in front of as many
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
Just like the way it rolled off the tongue somehow. I think you are on the right track with Walter though. Or how bout just Walt ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Why Bilbo Baggins? Do you suspect Barry of having hairy feet? I would like to work Walter Mitty in there, somehow... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Look, I like Barry. I really do, but how bout, Barry Bilbo Baggins Edward Snowden Wright! P.S. I am one who really likes nicknames. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. I think he should change his name, to Barry Buttons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/3/2014 8:46 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: How many TM practitioners on Fairfield City Council besides the mayor? And what is their position on the Heartland Coop? And what position has MUM taken on the issue? Please post these messages about the food co-op to the thread entitled /Heartland Petition/ posted by Rick. Thanks
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
sort of like, Bilbo Barry Baggins Walter Mitty Wright? Sounds like the beginning of a limerick... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Just like the way it rolled off the tongue somehow. I think you are on the right track with Walter though. Or how bout just Walt ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Why Bilbo Baggins? Do you suspect Barry of having hairy feet? I would like to work Walter Mitty in there, somehow... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Look, I like Barry. I really do, but how bout, Barry Bilbo Baggins Edward Snowden Wright! P.S. I am one who really likes nicknames. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. I think he should change his name, to Barry Buttons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult. I'm living proof that I have pushed bawee's rather prominent buttons because he doesn't like me at all, not one eentsy beentsy bit. I know this because it is not that we disagree on everything because we don't. In fact, there is much we agree upon, but he wouldn't want to admit that because I have practically worn out his shiny little buttons. In fact, now that Steve is making some excellent points I think bawee's buttons are going to need replacing. May I suggest a few new styles currently available on the market right now?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I agree. Even worse Barry equates his denial, with non-attachment, and thus convinces himself of his spiritual progress. However, he is making it increasingly clear, on here, by his overheated attempts at retribution, that he is fiercely attached to getting even, which is the polar opposite of letting go. He is kind of fascinating to watch, as an object lesson in ego-blindness. A very fragile, and unstable personality, that one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I don't think Barry is even aware of it when his buttons have been pushed. It's a kind of denial. Just in general, Barry is seriously deficient in self-knowledge; he can't see his own patterns that are so obvious to the rest of us. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I just find it odd, that Barry seems to feel he has monopoly on this button pushing thing. I guess you can define having your buttons pushed, in number of different ways. A person says something you disagree with, and you respond. Did you just get your buttons pushed? Somebody says something in a way that denigrates you, (or someone else), which could have been said in much less confrontational way, and you object to it. Did you just get your buttons pushed? You are a thinking, feeling human being, and someone says something insensitive, or designed to insult you, and you have a reaction, if only for a moment. Did you just get your buttons pushed? I guess for Barry, it is a mark of distinction to claim, I never get my buttons pushed Or how 'bout. I ain't got no stinkin buttons to be pushed Ookaay. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I think you really pushed Barry's buttons here, Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Oh, God, I can't resist. How's this? Could this be your motto. I don't get my buttons pushed. I'm the one pushing the buttons But I AM the one pushing the buttons, Steve. YOU are the one getting your buttons pushed. (snip lots of other nonsense) I have also stated my *purpose* in occasionally posting things that I know will push these cultists' buttons. I do it to entice them to react AS CULTISTS, and thus reveal to journalists and other lurkers here who and what they are. Thank you for complying. The above is one of Barry's worst delusions about himself, and everyone who has followed his posts knows it (including the journalists and other lurkers). He has revealed over and over who and what he is, and it isn't pretty. The truth is that he gets off on insulting people and trying to make them feel bad about themselves. It makes him feel better about HIMSELF when he does this. It becomes painfully obvious when you notice that his button-pushing is by no means limited to TM issues. Any old issue will do as the basis for an insult.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/2/2014 8:31 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Barry, over here for a sec, please. Just so I can record this accurately, how long since you last interacted with Maharishi, as a member of his org? I toss around the term 40 years, but that is strictly an approximation. Has it been longer? It was probably in 1975, just after MMY's appearance on the Merv Griffin show, when Barry wasn't invited to the party at the Hotel Bel Air after the show. That was some 39 years ago. So, I would say that Barry still talking about the TMO and MMY almost every night since then, is sounding a bit like he's still in a trance-induction state of some kind. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
I liked what Robert Svoboda in his BATGAP interview had to say about celibate yogis, that they basically running around saying they're celibate until the opportunity arises and then afterward resume saying they are celibate. IOW, they are celibate for the moment only. :-D On 06/02/2014 08:58 AM, geezerfr...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Well put. Further, let's not forget that his jealously was not limited to followers seeing other teachers. He also pushed celibacy while not practicing it himself. More for me, less for you. Clever, I suppose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
so anyone who says they know marshy was screwing these gals is automatically considered by you to be unstable? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 2, 2014 6:30 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers' The non-celibacy topic is a rumor put forward by Rick Archer which now has backfired on his new guru. Not one single stable person has made such claims. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Eh, he may or may not have been celibate, but in fact, all *I* ever heard on the matter from TM teachers was that Maharishi thought that celibacy was the fastest way to attain enlightenment, but that for those who were not comfortable with being celibate, the strain of doing something unnatural for them was worse than any benefit that might be gained. In that case, he advocated a stable relationship, perferably in the form of marriage. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak@... wrote : Well put. Further, let's not forget that his jealously was not limited to followers seeing other teachers. He also pushed celibacy while not practicing it himself. More for me, less for you. Clever, I suppose.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
On 6/2/2014 6:43 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: so anyone who says they know marshy was screwing these gals is automatically considered by you to be unstable? If there was anyone in MMY's bedroom to actually know that he was screwing a gal, I'd say the voyeur was unstable, not the lovers. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Why Maharishi REALLY Hated Students 'Seeing Other Teachers'
C'mon Richard, you can do better than that. At least try and be clever. If there was anyone in MMY's bedroom to actually know that he was screwing a gal, I'd say the voyeur was unstable, not the lovers.
