Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about this ever since my quip about it yesterday. The more I think about the new primary focus of Maharishi and the TMO, the more bizarre it gets. With TM, the selling point was always the lack of a need for belief of any kind; you just do it and the benefit accrues. This selling point was boosted in the SIMS days by the addition of scientific research that seemed to indicate that yes, there indeed seem to be verifiable benefits to practicing meditation. But now let's look at Sthapatya-Veda. It's ALL belief, as far as I can tell. In all of the discussions here or a.m.t., I've never noticed mention of any kind of attempt at scientific vali- dation of MSV's supposed benefits. I'd be curious as to whether any such attempt has ever been made. There's been attempts. They look at the robbery rate for businesses with south-facing entrances vs other directions, for instance. This is known as crap or joke science. The methodology of this type of research is so poor that it means absolutely nothing. If one doesn't know anything about research it appears to be valid. It's kind of funny, but I'm about to leave to teach my morning psychology class and this is what we're going to start talking about today: what is scientific research. I might use the SV research as an example of flawed research. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: I've never noticed mention of any kind of attempt at scientific vali- dation of MSV's supposed benefits. I'd be curious as to whether any such attempt has ever been made. There's been attempts. They look at the robbery rate for businesses with south-facing entrances vs other directions, for instance. This is known as crap or joke science. The methodology of this type of research is so poor that it means absolutely nothing. Are there not statistical means by which researchers can cull influences other than the variable being studied? For example, the superradiance research tried to filter out weather, seasonal cycles of crime and other factors that could have queered the data. - Patrick Gillam Yes, you certainly could do such research, but it takes lots of time and therefore money. The main problem is controlling for the unobserved variables that could influence a lower rate of robberies. You can remove them by controlling for them which would entail a good research design. Your sample size would also have to be quite large because most houses are not robbed, let alone houses in wealthy neighborhoods where most SV houses are found. It would be interesting research, but who would fund such research whos hypothesis (i.e., northern entrances to houses reduce robberies in those houses) is so counter-intuitive? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about this ever since my quip about it yesterday. The more I think about the new primary focus of Maharishi and the TMO, the more bizarre it gets. With TM, the selling point was always the lack of a need for belief of any kind; you just do it and the benefit accrues. This selling point was boosted in the SIMS days by the addition of scientific research that seemed to indicate that yes, there indeed seem to be verifiable benefits to practicing meditation. But now let's look at Sthapatya-Veda. It's ALL belief, as far as I can tell. In all of the discussions here or a.m.t., I've never noticed mention of any kind of attempt at scientific vali- dation of MSV's supposed benefits. I'd be curious as to whether any such attempt has ever been made. There's been attempts. They look at the robbery rate for businesses with south-facing entrances vs other directions, for instance. This is known as crap or joke science. The methodology of this type of research is so poor that it means absolutely nothing. If one doesn't know anything about research it appears to be valid. It's kind of funny, but I'm about to leave to teach my morning psychology class and this is what we're going to start talking about today: what is scientific research. I might use the SV research as an example of flawed research. Be sure to include how psychology successfully predicted M. Atta. Of course there is nothing inherent in SV or other vedangic practices that precludes good research, including jyotish. No sane researcher would dis a discipline or practice itself jut because it has been unfortunate enough to have bad research conducted on it. Its just that cults that glob onto such practices, tend to do chucklehead crap-science research. Thats a reflection of them, not the vedangic practice -- which may or may not be of value -- the answer to which has NOT been indicated, either way, by any good research. It's the chucklehead thing that's paraded around by people that don't understand the difference between good research and bad research that gets me. And M. Attahe and his cronies lived about 5 minutes away from me in Margate, Florida. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And M. Attahe and his cronies lived about 5 minutes away from me in Margate, Florida. And yet a psychologist outstanding in his field (in his underwear?) and the whole field of pyschology failed to predict his actions on and prior ot Sept 11th. tsk tsk. Almost as much of a failure as jyotish in not specifically predicting 9/11 in detail. :) Not really fair because who was claiming to try to predict his future behavior? I think the FBI and the CIA predicted his future behavior quite well, but there was a communication failure and nothing ever came of it to prevent the attacks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
akasha_108 makes very strong points... - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lupidus108" [EMAIL PROTECTED]...wrote: However, I think the real vedic money makers will be the polygomous marrages, and the 7 different sanctioned marriages, the first of which is abduction. Concubines fall in there somewhere. MVC -- MV concubines and temple dancers have immense potential -- all under the cover of religious freedoms for those pesky states and countries that frown on "selling" sex. But the real cash cow will be the traditional biggie: slavery and trade in such. Imagine having yor own MV slave. To go fetch your MV concubine. Again, a religious freedom sover to protect against all those adharmic chuckleheads who object to slavery on moral grounds. Sounds like you have read to many of Paul Masons fantaciesUm, no. just his book, and a few posts, mostly on SBS. Does he write alot of fantasies also? Like the Brothers Grimm?I take full credit and blame for the above extrapolations of TMOtrends towards an ultimate vedic conclusion. I have periodically madesuch extrapolative observations in the past, every 6-12 months or so.See the thread on "Laws of Manu" a while back that I started. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: I've never noticed mention of any kind of attempt at scientific vali- dation of MSV's supposed benefits. I'd be curious as to whether any such attempt has ever been made. There's been attempts. They look at the robbery rate for businesses with south-facing entrances vs other directions, for instance. This is known as crap or joke science. The methodology of this type of research is so poor that it means absolutely nothing. Are there not statistical means by which researchers can cull influences other than the variable being studied? For example, the superradiance research tried to filter out weather, seasonal cycles of crime and other factors that could have queered the data. - Patrick Gillam Yes, you certainly could do such research, but it takes lots of time and therefore money. The main problem is controlling for the unobserved variables that could influence a lower rate of robberies. You can remove them by controlling for them which would entail a good research design. Your sample size would also have to be quite large because most houses are not robbed, let alone houses in wealthy neighborhoods where most SV houses are found. It would be interesting research, but who would fund such research whos hypothesis (i.e., northern entrances to houses reduce robberies in those houses) is so counter-intuitive? Who funded the ME research? It can be done. DOn't know that a real study will ever be done, but it could be. Absolutely it could be done and I agree with you that it should be done to support claims being made right now by MMY and the whole TMO. But I doubt MMY has any interest in funding a real study. He doesn't think that way, especially in the last 15 years. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who funded the ME research? It can be done. DOn't know that a real study will ever be done, but it could be. The TMO funded the research of course. Note that MMY pretty much squelched the whole idea of doing this kind of research anymore, starting with his comments to the press during John Hagelin's press conference announcing the marginally positive results of the Washington DC study (circa 1993?) So, without the backing of MMY to do research, none of any significance will probably ever be done. Unfortunately MMY did not like the results of the research so he stopped it. Too bad. I think this thinking on his part is also why the pundits never show-up and we don't see large groups of TMO pundits creating world peace through yagyas. He's concerned that there will be no or very small results and he doesn't want this. MMY might have the equivalent of a BS in physics from an Indian university, but he doesn't think like a Western scientist at all! His thinking is very metaphoric. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about this ever since my quip about it yesterday. The more I think about the new primary focus of Maharishi and the TMO, the more bizarre it gets. With TM, the selling point was always the lack of a need for belief of any kind; you just do it and the benefit accrues. This selling point was boosted in the SIMS days by the addition of scientific research that seemed to indicate that yes, there indeed seem to be verifiable benefits to practicing meditation. But now let's look at Sthapatya-Veda. It's ALL belief, as far as I can tell. In all of the discussions here or a.m.t., I've never noticed mention of any kind of attempt at scientific vali- dation of MSV's supposed benefits. I'd be curious as to whether any such attempt has ever been made. There's been attempts. They look at the robbery rate for businesses with south-facing entrances vs other directions, for instance. This is known as crap or joke science. The methodology of this type of research is so poor that it means absolutely nothing. If one doesn't know anything about research it appears to be valid. It's kind of funny, but I'm about to leave to teach my morning psychology class and this is what we're going to start talking about today: what is scientific research. I might use the SV research as an example of flawed research. What specifically is wrong withthe approach? Ican thinkof plenty of issues, but what are you thinking of that makes this junk science ratherthan quick and dirty pilot study? Because the quick and dirty pilot study is never used to justify a larger much more rigorous study. The pilot study is touted about as a rigorous study by the TMO. This becomes junk science, or more accurately, cult science. Pilot studies are used to justify the time and money spent on a rigorous study. Somebody might look at health claims and deaths in people living in SV housing and compare that to non-SV housing in comparable neighborhoods and find that there appears to be a statistically significant difference between the two groups. That is a quick and dirty pilot study. But for a rigorous study all other variables that could influence death and sickness rates (and there are many, many of these) need to be held constant across the compared groups. This can be done, but it would very time consuming and very expensive and the TMO isn't interested in doing this. They've got their results from the pilot study: ergo, cult science. They are not interested in discovering fact, but in promoting their cult. Too bad! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Vastu really correct, or of value?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] What specifically is wrong withthe approach? Ican thinkof plenty of issues, but what are you thinking of that makes this junk science ratherthan quick and dirty pilot study? Because the quick and dirty pilot study is never used to justify a larger much more rigorous study. The pilot study is touted about as a rigorous study by the TMO. This becomes junk science, or more accurately, cult science. Pilot studies are used to justify the time and money spent on a rigorous study. Somebody might look at health claims and deaths in people living in SV housing and compare that to non-SV housing in comparable neighborhoods and find that there appears to be a statistically significant difference between the two groups. That is a quick and dirty pilot study. But for a rigorous study all other variables that could influence death and sickness rates (and there are many, many of these) need to be held constant across the compared groups. This can be done, but it would very time consuming and very expensive and the TMO isn't interested in doing this. They've got their results from the pilot study: ergo, cult science. They are not interested in discovering fact, but in promoting their cult. Too bad! That's true in this case, but we don't know what studies are on-going on SV. It can take years tog et something published via peer-review, especially something this controversial. Yes, you could be right. I hope good research is being undertaken, but my bias makes me say, no studies are being undertaken. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
