Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 10/3/2014 9:02 PM, feste37 wrote: I am astonished that anyone would take this nonsense by George Hammond seriously. /One of the FFL lurking reporters got real excited when he read about George Hammond - one informant has been dispatched to send us a report./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : This was sent to me by a friend. I’m not “in the loop” on any of this. Just passing it along. Jerry Jarvis sent this to John Hagelin the day before John posted his thing (Sunday), along with a cover note asking John to consider it and then to call Jerry. John responded, and told Jerry he'd consider it. But he never called Jerry to discuss before he sent out his message on Monday to the Certified Govs.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Jerry Jarvis does. How you gone process that? From: feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 3, 2014 10:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I am astonished that anyone would take this nonsense by George Hammond seriously. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : This was sent to me by a friend. I’m not “in the loop” on any of this. Just passing it along. Jerry Jarvis sent this to John Hagelin the day before John posted his thing (Sunday), along with a cover note asking John to consider it and then to call Jerry. John responded, and told Jerry he'd consider it. But he never called Jerry to discuss before he sent out his message on Monday to the Certified Govs. Compare the two documents. Jerry's point is to show people the info and let them decide for themselves. From: George Hammond Sent: Sep 21, 2014 11:25 AM To: Subject: The Concerns Expressed to You Dear Jerry, In light of the concern some of your friends are kindly expressing on your behalf, I'd like to emphasize a few things we've already discussed: 1) The Explanations Maharishi wants me to convey are designed to dispel the fears many of his teachers have developed. These are not in any way designed to make any organizational change in the TM Movement or its leadership. They are also not in any way designed to give instructions to any individual. No one is being asked to listen and follow or anything of the kind. Each individual may hear, or not hear, these Explanations, and may do, or not do, in his or her own life whatever he or she thinks is appropriate afterwards. Maharishi is not interested in making anyone else's decisions for him. But he is very interested in sharing these Explanations because he is convinced they will dispel the unnecessary fears his beloved teachers are experiencing. 2) One reason Maharishi has taken the unorthodox approach of conversing with me like this, which he fully admits he strongly downplayed when he was physically alive, is that there is no other way to reach his teachers while they are still alive. And he is concerned, if they die afraid, that that might spoil their attraction to meditation and to improving their consciousness for some time to come, which is a tragedy he wants to avoid. That is his main motive for making an exception to his general rule about sticking to normal modes of communication. 3) That said, unlike how some people are representing this, Maharishi is not being channeled. I did not speak with his ghost. I was neither dreaming nor having a vision. I had a normal conversation with Maharishi. I was wide awake at the time the original conversation started and I stayed wide awake during the entire time. This has been true of all our conversations since the original conversation as well. None has occurred during my dreams and none can even remotely be characterized as either visionary or channeling. It is simply that the mind we knew well as Maharishi is of course not dead. And he is still just as recognizably unique a personality as he was during his life from 1918-2008. I do not claim that I spent anywhere near as much time with Maharishi as probably thousands of others did. But I did spend time with him, and I know him well, and I am confident no other being could fool me into believing that being was Maharishi. The feel of Maharishi's mind is so unique that it would take extremely subtle acting ability on the part of any being to pull off even a half-convincing impersonation. As just one example, Maharishi's unusual sense ofhumor would be very hard to duplicate and his humor has had ample opportunity to be expressed throughout our conversations. 4) As you know, several attempts were made to contact the TM Movement's leadership starting soon after the original conversation with Maharishi on January 2nd. At that time, Maharishi did want those leaders to organize the presentation in the Dome on February 2nd. When that proved not feasible, another option was proposed for July. But Maharishi's requirement that his Explanations be given only once and recorded and not given again, for the obvious reason that more than one version would produce endless nitpicking, was found to be too high a hurdle for the TM Movement's leadership to approve the use of the Dome, for the also obvious reason that whatever would be said in the Dome would most likely be construed as authorized. Given the competing reasonable positions, Maharishi proposed a solution that retained his one-time only requirement without asking his TM Movement's leadership to take such a leap without knowing the content. That solution was to have the presentation at a neutral site and the TM Movement's leadership could determine after the fact whether Maharishi's Explanations were of any
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Thanks for explaining, Fleetwood. This makes sense to me. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 7:58 PM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am not trying to equivocate the two. Yes, they are different, but the mechanism for sensing each, is the same. The mechanics are the same, in either case, although the celestial I engage naturally, vs. the astral, which happened along, as a side interest. Both worlds if you will, can be accessed equally - all possibilities. However, by my many years of TM and the Siddhis, when this field began to open up, I was naturally drawn to the celestial, vs. the astral - though both are tuned in by the same process, discrimination, at the finest level of the senses. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, 2 different spiritual teachers for whom I have a lot of respect both differentiate between the astral and celestial realms. AND this is how the two realms feel to me. I experience them as different from each other. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:00 PM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Sure, but WHY do you disagree? That's where the meaty stuff is...:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter? Because he sent it to only them. Ann, you have convinced yourself. That is a problem. Your friend, dan
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Steve, I consider Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn something of a New Age classic. Maybe not in the same category as Tolle's Power of Now or Das Be Here Now, but a classic nonetheless. One of the spiritual organizations that warns about astral realm encourages seekers to focus instead on the celestial realm. I respect that organization a lot so I take it to heart. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:57 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Share, there was a time, likely probably many or most of us, when I wanted everything to be super clear. I wanted clear answers to things. But then I realized that wasn't going to happen. Channeling seems a good example of this. Some of it seems right on, perhaps like Barbara's book you mention, which was very influential for me as well. And then so much of channeling seems bogus. So, I employ the take what you want, and leave the rest philosophy, and just try to keep an open mind about things. In general, I m in agreement that channeling seems to be a risky endeavor. But, I feel I've benefited from knowledge and information that is said to come by that means. I have also read reports from the entities being channeled, that it does indeed weaken the vessel that is doing the channeling. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I consider Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn something of a New Age classic. Maybe not in the same category as Tolle's Power of Now or Das Be Here Now, but a classic nonetheless. One of the spiritual organizations that warns about astral realm encourages seekers to focus instead on the celestial realm. I respect that organization a lot so I take it to heart. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:57 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR.On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? Is it impossible for you to understand the concept of debate? I guess it is. More missing. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Unless you've done it you really don't know what you're talking about. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Share, there was a time, likely probably many or most of us, when I wanted everything to be super clear. I wanted clear answers to things. But then I realized that wasn't going to happen. Channeling seems a good example of this. Some of it seems right on, perhaps like Barbara's book you mention, which was very influential for me as well. And then so much of channeling seems bogus. So, I employ the take what you want, and leave the rest philosophy, and just try to keep an open mind about things. In general, I m in agreement that channeling seems to be a risky endeavor. But, I feel I've benefited from knowledge and information that is said to come by that means. I have also read reports from the entities being channeled, that it does indeed weaken the vessel that is doing the channeling. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I consider Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn something of a New Age classic. Maybe not in the same category as Tolle's Power of Now or Das Be Here Now, but a classic nonetheless. One of the spiritual organizations that warns about astral realm encourages seekers to focus instead on the celestial realm. I respect that organization a lot so I take it to heart. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:57 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Fleetwood, this makes a lot of sense, about needing a lot of light to traverse the astral realm safely. I also appreciate Steve's guideline to take what's useful and leave the rest. But oh, those tricksters! One mutual friend of ours encountered someone claiming to be channeling Jesus. But he didn't agree. I tend to go a lot by how their energy feels to me. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:29 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 9:31 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : /Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. You have already established that TM practice or the TMSP has zero effect on personality or one's moral compass. You just contradicted yourself, big time and not only made yourself look like a sycophant. Go figure./ On 9/29/2014 4:34 PM, danfriedman2002 wrote: Richard, I must once more commend you for the patience you have consistently shown. I typed a response to Missing's post to help him regain his moral compass. But his response indicates that he has no Mental compass. Worse. /We are assuming that he once had a moral compass, but we don't really know his full motives for wanting to work for the TM Movement. There must have been an attraction and like almost everyone else, he probably enjoyed the TM practice with the rounding. Obviously it was a mistake to go up to Iowa to work for the TMO - it looks like that was not a good match. It won't be the first or last time a university staff worker got disgruntled. To this day I still hate the shop instructor at my High School! But, I don't go on line to Tool Time groups and throw a Crescent wrench at the online mechanics. So, most people move on because they realize that in the great scheme of things and in their personal life, it's not a very important event. Or, in some cases THE biggest event. What happens sometimes is the obsession takes over. This has been attested in hundreds of cases as reported by John Knapp during cult exit counseling. The lesson learned: you don't have to like your boss - just do what he says - he's the one making the big bucks and taking all the risks. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Who knows Dan, maybe you like all this attention. Have at it dude. Don't let me stand in the way of your hissy fit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Ah, the sage speak! Oh great one, reveal to us the mysteries of The Great Channel! On second thought, I can do without. Love ya though. Remember, do not stop posting here! (gift that keeps on giving sort of thing) (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Unless you've done it you really don't know what you're talking about. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Share, there was a time, likely probably many or most of us, when I wanted everything to be super clear. I wanted clear answers to things. But then I realized that wasn't going to happen. Channeling seems a good example of this. Some of it seems right on, perhaps like Barbara's book you mention, which was very influential for me as well. And then so much of channeling seems bogus. So, I employ the take what you want, and leave the rest philosophy, and just try to keep an open mind about things. In general, I m in agreement that channeling seems to be a risky endeavor. But, I feel I've benefited from knowledge and information that is said to come by that means. I have also read reports from the entities being channeled, that it does indeed weaken the vessel that is doing the channeling. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I consider Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn something of a New Age classic. Maybe not in the same category as Tolle's Power of Now or Das Be Here Now, but a classic nonetheless. One of the spiritual organizations that warns about astral realm encourages seekers to focus instead on the celestial realm. I respect that organization a lot so I take it to heart. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:57 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 12:49 PM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Yes, I find it remarkable, that despite all the changes in the world, and some of the looks like crazy within the TMO itself, a person can get instructed in the same technique of TM, today, in exactly the same way, as we all learned it 30, 40, and 50 years ago. As long as that goes on, I'm good. According to what I've read, TM instruction now is exactly the same as when the first TMers got initiated in India back in 1955. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. fleet, Another excellent analogy. You have, hopefully clarified a bit with your example. It is an 'interesting' and IMPORTANT topic. Once you accept that The Whole Purpose of Maharishi's approach and the resultant TMO is to propagate The Knowledge, everything becomes transparant (as necessary). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Who knows Dan, maybe you like all this attention. No. It's the slander that I don't let stand. Have at it dude. That's Mr Dude to you. Are gettin ready to hurl those insults? Don't let me stand in the way of your hissy fit. And there they are! So predictable. You need to talk to Mike. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR.On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/29/2014 9:31 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote : Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. You have already established that TM practice or the TMSP has zero effect on personality or one's moral compass. You just contradicted yourself, big time and not only made yourself look like a sycophant. Go figure. On 9/29/2014 4:34 PM, danfriedman2002 wrote: Richard, I must once more commend you for the patience you have consistently shown. I typed a response to Missing's post to help him regain his moral compass. But his response indicates that he has no Mental compass. Worse. We are assuming that he once had a moral compass, but we don't really know his full motives for wanting to work for the TM Movement. There must have been an attraction and like almost everyone else, he probably enjoyed the TM practice with the rounding. Possible explanation. I'll go with it unless Mike has provided his own explanation of his motives and experience of that time. Obviously it was a mistake to go up to Iowa to work for the TMO - it looks like that was not a good match. It won't be the first or last time a university staff worker got disgruntled. To this day I still hate the shop instructor at my High School! But, I don't go on line to Tool Time groups and throw a Crescent wrench at the online mechanics. I know you wouldn't. You are reasonable, level-headed, and Extremely Patient. Just listening to Mike tell his life-story over and over, again and again, takes Some Patience. So, most people move on because they realize that in the great scheme of things and in their personal life, it's not a very important event. Or, in some cases THE biggest event. What happens sometimes is the obsession takes over. This has been attested in hundreds of cases as reported by John Knapp during cult exit counseling. Agree. But living in NYC provides a broad spectrum of people, many of who's past has taken over. Most are cared for by DoPIS. Human tragedy. The lesson learned: you don't have to like your boss - just do what he says - he's the one making the big bucks and taking all the risks. Go figure. Wish he'd follow this adage. It's never too late for anyone.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. Yes, my In-Your-Face Brother! If you want friendships, you must have arguments. --quoted from my Commentary on BG (in progress) battlefield scene ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ah, the sage speak! Oh great one, reveal to us the mysteries of The Great Channel! On second thought, I can do without. Love ya though. Remember, do not stop posting here! (gift that keeps on giving sort of thing) (-: unlike how some people are representing this, Maharishi is not being channeled. ---quoted from George Hammond September 21, 2014 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Unless you've done it you really don't know what you're talking about. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Share, there was a time, likely probably many or most of us, when I wanted everything to be super clear. I wanted clear answers to things. But then I realized that wasn't going to happen. Channeling seems a good example of this. Some of it seems right on, perhaps like Barbara's book you mention, which was very influential for me as well. And then so much of channeling seems bogus. So, I employ the take what you want, and leave the rest philosophy, and just try to keep an open mind about things. In general, I m in agreement that channeling seems to be a risky endeavor. But, I feel I've benefited from knowledge and information that is said to come by that means. I have also read reports from the entities being channeled, that it does indeed weaken the vessel that is doing the channeling. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, I consider Marciniak's Bringers of the Dawn something of a New Age classic. Maybe not in the same category as Tolle's Power of Now or Das Be Here Now, but a classic nonetheless. One of the spiritual organizations that warns about astral realm encourages seekers to focus instead on the celestial realm. I respect that organization a lot so I take it to heart. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:57 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Yes, Share, that is what I am saying. He says he doesn't do it anymore, that it was an embarrassing chapter in his past, and yet he regularly seems to know what people are thinking and feeling better than they know themselves. To me that sounds like channeled knowledge, at least of some sort. I have mentioned this before, but I have read books containing supposedly channeled knowledge, and I've found them very valuable. Among the best for me, was Barbara Marciniak, and to a lessor extent, Barbara Hand Clow. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
It is often the TM obsessors, who are unable to abide differences of opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Michael, You would do well to observe and learn to understand how to resolve differences. You seem to have ONE SINGLE ISSUE that has stymied your life. There, I've done my Good Deed for the New Year. Back to reflection. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : It is often the TM obsessors, who are unable to abide differences of opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
I am so thankful that I have a TM Certified and Double Rectified Head Examiner to diagnose me from afar and tell me what all my problems are. Why don't you do like Jonathan Shapiro did Kenny Odom and tell me that all my problems would vanish if I just did the siddhis? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, You would do well to observe and learn to understand how to resolve differences. You seem to have ONE SINGLE ISSUE that has stymied your life. There, I've done my Good Deed for the New Year. Back to reflection. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : It is often the TM obsessors, who are unable to abide differences of opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR.On the other
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Yeah, Dan does this qualify as debate? From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Who knows Dan, maybe you like all this attention. Have at it dude. Don't let me stand in the way of your hissy fit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR.On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I am so thankful that I have a TM Certified and Double Rectified Head Examiner to diagnose me from afar and tell me what all my problems are. Why don't you do like Jonathan Shapiro did Kenny Odom and tell me that all my problems would vanish if I just did the siddhis? My best suggestion is for you to try to help some other people with their lives. It will help yours. I promise. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, You would do well to observe and learn to understand how to resolve differences. You seem to have ONE SINGLE ISSUE that has stymied your life. There, I've done my Good Deed for the New Year. Back to reflection. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : It is often the TM obsessors, who are unable to abide differences of opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Yeah, Dan does this qualify as debate? Exactly! Steve offers his hypothesis in Line #1. In Line #2 he offers for my retort. In Line #3 he offers broad sway for me to respond. Now you try it. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Who knows Dan, maybe you like all this attention. Have at it dude. Don't let me stand in the way of your hissy fit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : To this day I still hate the shop instructor at my High School! But, I don't go on line to Tool Time groups and throw a Crescent wrench at the online mechanics. On 9/30/2014 10:36 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I know you wouldn't. You are reasonable, level-headed, and Extremely Patient. Just listening to Mike tell his life-story over and over, again and again, takes Some Patience. This guy, Mr. Chambers, who is probably long dead by now, in Automotive Shop once threw a Crescent wrench at me and missed. The occasion was the day my turn came to man the tool room. Chambers had mounted little hooks on the wall behind the counter and had painted the outlines of all the tools indicating where they should be placed at the end of class. One day the Crescent wrench was missing when the bell went off. Oh my Gawd!!! These guys were Obsessive Compulsive. Your scene was used in Orange is the New Black. I took Cooking Class. My Mom wrote that cooking would be more useful than automotives. Turns out the technology proved her right (again). The bully Chambers used to make us sit in the class room and read from a Chilton's automotive text book BEFORE we started work on our cars. The bastard! I feel you. My first day at The Bronx High School of Science, I walk into the auditorium late (Dad taught me that). The Principal is at the podioum droning on about bullship until I arrive. Suddenly he's found his raison d'etre. Then he begins screaming: Son!, You!, That boy! and on and on. I show no interest in discourse. He's doing his screaming best (an attribute of many Principals). He begins a rant about tardiness, that goes right over my head. If you remember lateness is something tought at a tender age by my Dear Dad). So the whole fucking thing has no interest, at all, to me (Surprised?) From that day, for the remainder of my high school years, I attracted the most motley cast of characters that NYC could gin up. And yes, we did drink gin before starting class in the morning. And the day took off from there...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
How do you know I am not already doing so? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I am so thankful that I have a TM Certified and Double Rectified Head Examiner to diagnose me from afar and tell me what all my problems are. Why don't you do like Jonathan Shapiro did Kenny Odom and tell me that all my problems would vanish if I just did the siddhis? My best suggestion is for you to try to help some other people with their lives. It will help yours. I promise. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, You would do well to observe and learn to understand how to resolve differences. You seem to have ONE SINGLE ISSUE that has stymied your life. There, I've done my Good Deed for the New Year. Back to reflection. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : It is often the TM obsessors, who are unable to abide differences of opinion. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, of course the fact that TMers disagree with one another proves that we're not in a cult. (-: On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:03 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: what you miss Michael is the ability to get into one anothers face when we see fit. it's called discussing things, even with an edge. MIchaels version of discussion: Wait, what? You disagree? Why you are just a TB, Cult Apologist, Sycophant. Work on Michael. After a while you may get it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Don't you just love it when the Marshy sycophants fight each other? From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Sure, but WHY do you disagree? That's where the meaty stuff is...:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
I think Share disagrees because she heard other info that she likes better - there are a whole bunch of contradictory pieces of info on these subjects - you just gotta pick the one you like. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Sure, but WHY do you disagree? That's where the meaty stuff is...:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Richard, I am sorry. Mr. Sheehan was my ninth grade shop teacher. We started off with drafting, and ended with taking apart a lawn mower engine. In between was sheet metal and plastics. Good times, indeed. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : To this day I still hate the shop instructor at my High School! But, I don't go on line to Tool Time groups and throw a Crescent wrench at the online mechanics. On 9/30/2014 10:36 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I know you wouldn't. You are reasonable, level-headed, and Extremely Patient. Just listening to Mike tell his life-story over and over, again and again, takes Some Patience. This guy, Mr. Chambers, who is probably long dead by now, in Automotive Shop once threw a Crescent wrench at me and missed. The occasion was the day my turn came to man the tool room. Chambers had mounted little hooks on the wall behind the counter and had painted the outlines of all the tools indicating where they should be placed at the end of class. One day the Crescent wrench was missing when the bell went off. Oh my Gawd!!! The bully Chambers used to make us sit in the class room and read from a Chilton's automotive text book BEFORE we started work on our cars. The bastard!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
How now! Poor Michael, so threatened by sharp comments. I'm not even going to go there Michael. The what causes a person to be appear so arrested at a certain level of emotional development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Yeah, Dan does this qualify as debate? From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Who knows Dan, maybe you like all this attention. Have at it dude. Don't let me stand in the way of your hissy fit. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Jesus Dan, Inappropriate Greeting, Steve Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. I understand that you are claiming thatThis ain't no big deal to you (although I do notice you are posting quite a lot about it), but it is to me. So now, take a deep breath and JUST STOP TELLING ME TO Let it go I will continue to run my life, as you should too. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Whatt I guess that's Been Decided. Lay off already! Is that your best?: Lay off already! That is your what, moral stance, intellectual argument, humanistic position? Ann asked why we were disagreeing. I respect Ann enough to honestly discuss our differences. Unlike the ffl Dialogue that is intended to incite flares. Hurling at me won't 'just do it', Steve. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Fleetwood, 2 different spiritual teachers for whom I have a lot of respect both differentiate between the astral and celestial realms. AND this is how the two realms feel to me. I experience them as different from each other. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:00 PM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Sure, but WHY do you disagree? That's where the meaty stuff is...:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
I am not trying to equivocate the two. Yes, they are different, but the mechanism for sensing each, is the same. The mechanics are the same, in either case, although the celestial I engage naturally, vs. the astral, which happened along, as a side interest. Both worlds if you will, can be accessed equally - all possibilities. However, by my many years of TM and the Siddhis, when this field began to open up, I was naturally drawn to the celestial, vs. the astral - though both are tuned in by the same process, discrimination, at the finest level of the senses. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, 2 different spiritual teachers for whom I have a lot of respect both differentiate between the astral and celestial realms. AND this is how the two realms feel to me. I experience them as different from each other. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:00 PM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Sure, but WHY do you disagree? That's where the meaty stuff is...:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, you initially said that the astral and the celestial are the same thing. I don't agree with that. Nor do I agree that they are the same vibrational spectrum. On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:58 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: How is what you say, any different, from what I said? The astral and celestial are in the same realm, same vibrational spectrum, like our earthly light covers a spectrum of different colors, though different neighborhoods. Yes, the beings in the celestial neighborhoods are always the good guys. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I have a different understanding and experience wrt this. What I've heard is that in the celestial realm the beings are benevolent towards humanity; in the astral realm, some are and some are not. e On Tuesday, September 30, 2014 9:36 AM, fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Just to clarify, Share, the celestial and astral are the same thing - It depends on the consciousness, where a person naturally ends up (later, you go anywhere you want to)- Satvic equals Celestial, and the rest is what people call the astral. It is simply a layer of life, like ours, where vibrational frequencies are higher, and always evident, like the television broadcasts passing through the atmosphere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Clarity is the key - Since our vision doesn't operate the same way in the astral, we need a lot of light, to go there. The way Maharishi taught the Siddhis, with TM practice preceding the sutras, gives us the protection, to over time, explore any place we desire to go. Separating out the imagination, traveling outside the common boundaries of time and space, and dealing with tricksters, are two things to be aware of, should the astral prove appealing. Knowledge, and power, *always* come with an equal share of responsibility. Enjoy your travels! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, my memory is not the best but I thought he once said that he stopped doing that. I've heard several spiritual organizations warn about channeling. Evidently it opens one up to the astral realm wherein there is no guarantee wrt the benevolence of the inhabitants. On Monday, September 29, 2014 9:34 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday [1 Attachment]
/To this day I still hate the shop instructor at my High School! But, I don't go on line to Tool Time groups and throw a Crescent wrench at the online mechanics. / On 9/30/2014 10:36 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: I know you wouldn't. You are reasonable, level-headed, and Extremely Patient. Just listening to Mike tell his life-story over and over, again and again, takes Some Patience. /This guy, Mr. Chambers, who is probably long dead by now, in Automotive Shop once threw a Crescent wrench at me and missed. The occasion was the day my turn came to man the tool room. Chambers had mounted little hooks on the wall behind the counter and had painted the outlines of all the tools indicating where they should be placed at the end of class. One day the Crescent wrench was missing when the bell went off. Oh my Gawd!!!/// On 9/30/2014 2:35 PM, danfriedman2002 wrote: These guys were Obsessive Compulsive. Your scene was used in Orange is the New Black. I took Cooking Class. My Mom wrote that cooking would be more useful than automotives. Turns out the technology proved her right (again)./ / /Some of my teachers were slave-drivers! I took Touch Typing in High School and Ms Kelly busted me all the time for looking down at the keyboard, and especially I disliked her because she drove a new Dodge Polara and I had to drive an old 1957 Chevy./ /1960 Dodge Polara/ /// //The bully Chambers used to make us sit in the class room and read from a Chilton's automotive text book BEFORE we started work on our cars. The bastard!/ I feel you. My first day at The Bronx High School of Science, I walk into the auditorium late (Dad taught me that). The Principal is at the podioum droning on about bullship until I arrive. Suddenly he's found his raison d'etre. Then he begins screaming: Son!, You!, That boy! and on and on. I show no interest in discourse. He's doing his screaming best (an attribute of many Principals). He begins a rant about tardiness, that goes right over my head. If you remember lateness is something tought at a tender age by my Dear Dad). So the whole fucking thing has no interest, at all, to me (Surprised?) From that day, for the remainder of my high school years, I attracted the most motley cast of characters that NYC could gin up. And yes, we did drink gin before starting class in the morning. And the day took off from there...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/30/2014 3:51 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: How do you know I am not already doing so? /Because you said you were practicing Kung Foo for two years, not for the benefit of others, but for your own well-being and for your health and good fortune.//How could you help anyone at a distance?//Go figure./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I am so thankful that I have a TM Certified and Double Rectified Head Examiner to diagnose me from afar and tell me what all my problems are. Why don't you do like Jonathan Shapiro did Kenny Odom and tell me that all my problems would vanish if I just did the siddhis? My best suggestion is for you to try to help some other people with their lives. It will help yours. I promise.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication. Marshy speaks from beyond the grave and there's no public interest? I think you underestimate the public! I admire the attempt to use guilt to control people into keeping quiet though, but I got wise to that a long time ago. The TMO always likes to sweep it's embarrassments under the rug, it's easier to keep up the pretence that it's a perfect organisation if they do that. JH's prime concern seems to be how it might affect the public image they've carefully cultivated with the DLF. I don't know why they'd be more embarrassed about the founder communicating from beyond the grave than they are about the yagya or pundit programmes if the general public found out about those. It just goes to show you what you can get used to with a bit of familiarity. Maybe the reesh will give us regular updates from the next world, if you believe in this stuff then I don't see why we have to have a barrier between life and death at all. Think of the benefits! The new knowledge that may come out! Don't you miss the january announcements? PS Can you remember to click on the Show message history before you replay and send. Ta.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. And that is exactly why people who want to keep the movement's dirty laundry hidden don't like him. They long for the good old days when they could tell people what is taught in private remains private and actually have them fall for it. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
what is taught in private remains private I had forgotten about that! That is what the TM teachers used to say. I remember being in an elevator in the hotel in DC on a course where I got an advanced technique from good old Neal Patterson. We had been rounding for about a week and this Yankee governor who had a rather course mouth asked me how long I flew. I refused to tell him, using that very phrase, or maybe I said It's confidential. What a dumbass I was. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. And that is exactly why people who want to keep the movement's dirty laundry hidden don't like him. They long for the good old days when they could tell people what is taught in private remains private and actually have them fall for it. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : can you see you are a sycophant? I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Sans moral compass, we have no basis for a discussion. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/28/2014 9:04 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Actually Richard, it was only I who did that. And I redid it a few days ago to put most of the most recent posters each in their own folder. This makes it easier to skip or read what a particular person is responding to or is posting something new. In the past few hours I gotten 45 FFL emails. Yours were 26.67% of the total. *From:* 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 11:53 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday /That would explain why several of the FFL informants spent hours making folders labeled fluff, drivel, and Canada and creating filters so they don't have to read all the critical discussions posted here in order to promote an open discussion - that is above PR image spinning.//Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Richard, thank you for this insight, that those who label and assign folders are also doing a form of PR, creating a spin. I'm guessing they don't see their behavior as such. But of course, it is. On Sunday, September 28, 2014 6:53 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/28/2014 12:57 PM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. That would explain why several of the FFL informants spent hours making folders labeled fluff, drivel, and Canada and creating filters so they don't have to read all the critical discussions posted here in order to promote an open discussion - that is above PR image spinning.Go figure. If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/28/2014 9:13 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: can you see you are a sycophant? /Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another./ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. /Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence./ *From:* danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan *From:* srijau@... srijau@... *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/28/2014 9:13 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: can you see you are a sycophant? Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. Richard, I always find your commentary insightful, rewarding, and often amusing. And as I appreciate it, at the same time I see the tragedy of offering value, logic and insight to a this person, who is absent core human values. You know, like decency, honor, morality, comprehension, self-respect, esteem for others... Well, the list goes on. Keep on keeping on, Dan From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... mailto:srijau@... srijau@... mailto:srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 2:42 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:57 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. And that is exactly why people who want to keep the movement's dirty laundry hidden don't like him. They long for the good old days when they could tell people what is taught in private remains private and actually have them fall for it. /Short of you telling everyone what your bija mantra was, there are probably no secrets left in the TM Movement. However, there are many things that are kept secret in Tibetan Buddhism, which may account for you getting only beginner practices from a visiting lama. But, in fact you haven't even told us everything about your own dirty laundry. For example, how Lenz arranged to have 200 vehicles all meet up in the middle of the night in the desert when the park was supposed to be closed; how much it costs each person; and what happened to all the money?/ He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) /If the international free press didn't cover the Frederick Lenz levitation event, what makes you think anyone would want to take note of George Hammond?/ If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
It was addressed to CERTIFIED Governors. Hagelin is afraid that Jerry Jarvis's approval of an participation in this event is going to give legitimacy it would otherwise not have. He is afraid of Certified Governors straying from the True Path of TM as approved of and sold by King Tony, Girish, Bevan and Hagelin. He is afraid their front line salesmen and women will go off and not bring in the money to the Movement. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : can you see you are a sycophant? I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Sans moral compass, we have no basis for a discussion. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
dear Dan, thank you so much for what you say to Richard here. I agree with you. I read all of Richard's post and even though they're not all gems the ones that are gems make all the reading worthwhile. Plus he's often the target of mob mentality which imho is even worse than cult mentality. You too, thank you for keeping on...Share On Monday, September 29, 2014 7:47 AM, danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/28/2014 9:13 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: can you see you are a sycophant? Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. Richard, I always find your commentary insightful, rewarding, and often amusing. And as I appreciate it, at the same time I see the tragedy of offering value, logic and insight to a this person, who is absent core human values. You know, like decency, honor, morality, comprehension, self-respect, esteem for others... Well, the list goes on. Keep on keeping on, Dan From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : dear Dan, thank you so much for what you say to Richard here. I agree with you. I read all of Richard's post and even though they're not all gems the ones that are gems make all the reading worthwhile. Plus he's often the target of mob mentality which imho is even worse than cult mentality. You too, thank you for keeping on...Very keen! I have 2 doctors diagnose me as Indestructible. I may not be Invincible yet, but it does help me stay The Course. Share dan On Monday, September 29, 2014 7:47 AM, danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/28/2014 9:13 PM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: can you see you are a sycophant? Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. Richard, I always find your commentary insightful, rewarding, and often amusing. And as I appreciate it, at the same time I see the tragedy of offering value, logic and insight to a this person, who is absent core human values. You know, like decency, honor, morality, comprehension, self-respect, esteem for others... Well, the list goes on. Keep on keeping on, Dan From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... mailto:srijau@... srijau@... mailto:srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. Michael's Brilliance Shines On! From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : can you see you are a sycophant? I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Sans moral compass, we have no basis for a discussion. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) If the international free press didn't cover the Frederick Lenz levitation event, what makes you think anyone would want to take note of George Hammond? This is an excellent point and question all at the same time. Gold stars for you, Richard.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 6:02 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: what is taught in private remains private I had forgotten about that! That is what the TM teachers used to say. I remember being in an elevator in the hotel in DC on a course where I got an advanced technique from good old Neal Patterson. We had been rounding for about a week and this Yankee governor who had a rather course mouth asked me how long I flew. I refused to tell him, using that very phrase, or maybe I said It's confidential. /Maybe you didn't say how long you were able to fly because you never were able to fly. Maybe you were influenced by peer pressure. Or, maybe you were just highly prone to suggestion. Go figure./ What a dumbass I was. /It's nothing to be ashamed of - lot's of people never learn how to fly or levitate. / /Apparently even Lenz, the Reincarnation of Lord Vishnu, could only levitate a few feet up off of a sofa. Spending a few years living in a pod, praying inside a golden dome twice a day and filling-in for the cafeteria pie-baker - probably can't even compare to the Woo Woo that Barry, Curtis, or Edg have experienced. / *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 3:42 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday *From:* curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:57 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. And that is exactly why people who want to keep the movement's dirty laundry hidden don't like him. They long for the good old days when they could tell people what is taught in private remains private and actually have them fall for it. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter? Because he sent it to only them. Ann, you have convinced yourself. That is a problem. Your friend, dan
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter? Because he sent it to only them. Ann, you have convinced yourself. That is a problem. Your friend, dan
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Fleetwood, it's a pleasure to encounter such a balanced view about this. Not to mention just good old fashioned common sense. Thanks, hope your autumn is as beautiful as ours is. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:46 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter? Because he sent it to only them. Ann, you have convinced yourself. That is a problem. Your friend, dan
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 7:10 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Richard, thank you for this insight, that those who label and assign folders are also doing a form of PR, creating a spin. /It's more of a form of censorship but the spin is bragging about making folders in ///FFL Yahoo Groups and /Yahoo Mail./ I'm guessing they don't see their behavior as such. But of course, it is. /The informants posting here don't seem to be much into self-analysis or they would probably realize their filtering behavior borders on the obsessive. Go figure./ On Sunday, September 28, 2014 6:53 PM, 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 9/28/2014 12:57 PM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com mailto:curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. /That would explain why several of the FFL informants spent hours making folders labeled fluff, drivel, and Canada and creating filters so they don't have to read all the critical discussions posted here in order to promote an open discussion - that is above PR image spinning.//Go figure./ If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Rick, I keep wondering if you and Hagelin are still friends. I thought you were. But then you posted that private email of his. Maybe none of my business but I do wonder. On Monday, September 29, 2014 11:18 AM, 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: From:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others. If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others. If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. I'm sure that I would enjoy Rick's company in person. We have a somewhat similar history. I just missed him in Estes Park, CO I just missed him at Livingston Manor. I even send him complements at Batgap (and amazon commission). But, about this Post Someone Else and Run Tactic: I'm not so crazy about it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others. If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth. Rick, This is the second time you offerred the defence that well not all i do is against the tmo, so it's all ko I still don't buy it. Get a higher standard for yourself. And your gossip about young women is awful. Your loyal reader, but discriminating consumer. Dan Friedman
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others. If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth. Just ignore him Rick, everyone else does. The discussion he wants to have here is a pointlessly fluffy one, him and Willytex spam this place endlessly because they don't like any opinions that contradict their own. If they don't like free speech they should go play elsewhere. Aggravate the discussion indeed! Dear Mr Free Speech, Thank you for censuring me. I sincerely appreciate you're not reading. But to tell Rick what to do A little Fascistic, wouldn't you say?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others. If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth. Just ignore him Rick, everyone else does. The discussion he wants to have here is a pointlessly fluffy one, him and Willytex spam this place endlessly because they don't like any opinions that contradict their own. If they don't like free speech they should go play elsewhere. Aggravate the discussion indeed!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. fleet, Another excellent analogy. You have, hopefully clarified a bit with your example. It is an 'interesting' and IMPORTANT topic. Once you accept that The Whole Purpose of Maharishi's approach and the resultant TMO is to propagate The Knowledge, everything becomes transparant (as necessary). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter? Because he sent it to only them. Ann, you have convinced yourself. That is a problem. Your friend, dan
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Yes, I find it remarkable, that despite all the changes in the world, and some of the looks like crazy within the TMO itself, a person can get instructed in the same technique of TM, today, in exactly the same way, as we all learned it 30, 40, and 50 years ago. As long as that goes on, I'm good. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. fleet, Another excellent analogy. You have, hopefully clarified a bit with your example. It is an 'interesting' and IMPORTANT topic. Once you accept that The Whole Purpose of Maharishi's approach and the resultant TMO is to propagate The Knowledge, everything becomes transparant (as necessary). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Only someone willfully blind would see it any other way. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Michael, are you saying that you have been in FF recently? And on campus? Or had some recent email exchanges with some of TMO leaders? On Monday, September 29, 2014 12:52 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Only someone willfully blind would see it any other way. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 9:30 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It was addressed to CERTIFIED Governors. Hagelin is afraid that Jerry Jarvis's approval of an participation in this event is going to give legitimacy it would otherwise not have. He is afraid of Certified Governors straying from the True Path of TM as approved of and sold by King Tony, Girish, /It has NOT been established that Girish has any Certified Governors.//There's only one TM and you get only one single bija mantra for your meditation practice - that HAS been established./ Bevan and Hagelin. He is afraid their front line salesmen and women will go off and not bring in the money to the Movement. *From:* awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 9:54 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so?is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private?I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am not privy to. ALMOST AN INFINITE AMOUNT. That I had wanted to share. Good luck with this future endeavor. It is bringing out something in you. And you as well. But I'm not angry as a result of your opinion on the matter. I am nothing if not stubborn, especially if the other person has failed to convince me that I am in error. But one question: why do you think Hagelin would only want Governors to read this letter?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Maharishi personally, from his love of humaity, gave this his gift to the world. It's the same and always will be. Do the thing, and BOOM, you're at home. Yet I struggle somehow when you say: crazy within the TMO itself. In my opinion the TMO is as healthy as ever, and Hagelin's letter to that fellow the other day prooves my point. What exactly did you mean by those words ? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yes, I find it remarkable, that despite all the changes in the world, and some of the looks like crazy within the TMO itself, a person can get instructed in the same technique of TM, today, in exactly the same way, as we all learned it 30, 40, and 50 years ago. As long as that goes on, I'm good. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. fleet, Another excellent analogy. You have, hopefully clarified a bit with your example. It is an 'interesting' and IMPORTANT topic. Once you accept that The Whole Purpose of Maharishi's approach and the resultant TMO is to propagate The Knowledge, everything becomes transparant (as necessary). ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 9:31 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. /Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. You have already established that TM practice or the TMSP has zero effect on personality or one's moral compass. You just contradicted yourself, big time and not only made yourself look like a sycophant. Go figure./ *From:* danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 7:59 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : can you see you are a sycophant? I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Sans moral compass, we have no basis for a discussion. *From:* danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan *From:* srijau@... srijau@... *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 9/29/2014 9:31 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: You are probably correct, and its too bad that you can't see its all those years being a Marshy sycophant and all those years practicing TMSP that has robbed you of your moral compass. Non sequitur. An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. You have already established that TM practice or the TMSP has zero effect on personality or one's moral compass. You just contradicted yourself, big time and not only made yourself look like a sycophant. Go figure. Richard, I must once more commend you for the patience you have consistently shown. I typed a response to Missing's post to help him regain his moral compass. But his response indicates that he has no Mental compass. Worse. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : can you see you are a sycophant? I guess not, or you would rehabilitate yourself. Sans moral compass, we have no basis for a discussion. From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan From: srijau@... mailto:srijau@... srijau@... mailto:srijau@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday There is no compelling public interest in this that justifies the invasion of privacy of this confidential communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 11:00 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. Apparently MJ wanted to be a spiritual teacher but maybe he got rejected by his peers who didn't think he acted very spiritual. These days he reminds me of a an ankle-biter and a chronic complainer. Apparently he never did learn to mind his own business - he was probably opening his big pie-hole back then and spreading rumores all over campus. Maybe that's why he got fired and kicked out of his pod. Anyone working on staff in food service at MIU back then probably wouldn't get the chance to meet with many teachers or administrators - especially if they're not even a student taking any classes. A mere part-time food service employee is not going to be consulted about administrative decisions at a university. It's probably normal to feel slighted at times when you think you're important and somebody that should be deferred to. The reality is that most people working at a university are a nobody. Some people can deal with it - some cannot. Go figure. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. *From:* fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 11:20 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Rick, I keep wondering if you and Hagelin are still friends. I thought you were. But then you posted that private email of his. Maybe none of my business but I do wonder. After this exchange I have my doubts. If I was John Hegelin I would have had Rick on the phone within five minutes demanding a retraction. This is a good example of agreement by silence. Does this kind of talk have any place on any public group forum? /I would not advise him to get stuck in an elevator with me. There would be blood, no debate, and it wouldn't take place in the astral./ - Edg Subject: BatGap Panel Discussion John Hagelin Author: Duveyoung Date: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 06:21:46 - 0700 Form: Yahoo FFL http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279371.html On Monday, September 29, 2014 11:18 AM, 'Rick Archer' r...@searchsummit.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: *From:*FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] *Sent:* Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:31 PM *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday I agree, Dan, in principle, but Rick is the only one here (on FFL) that I have met, in the flesh (1978 - L. Manor), and I like him - He enjoys serving as a spiritual radio station, of sorts, and I can live with that. He is a very gentle and fair person, in person. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. *Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool.* *Not respectful of others.* If you actually reviewed all the things I’ve posted on FFL since I created the site 13 years ago, you’d find that I’ve probably posted as many things that could be interpreted as positive toward the movement as negative. Not only my own comments, but stuff from Hagelin, Orme-Johnson, etc. that I’ve forwarded. I don’t have a one-sided opinion of the movement. I try to take the facts into consideration and make sense of it all. I don’t have a “propaganda” agenda. For instance, if you talk to people with first-hand experience, it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On the other hand, I regard him as having been a great teacher who had a profound influence on my life. I try to accept that paradox rather than taking a polarized position on it, which would exclude half the truth.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work? Hi Dan! No, I am DEFINITELY NOT a certified governor. Governor is so pretentious, don't you think? A governor governs, yes? What do these folks govern anyway? I seriously don't know. But that is beside the point. I fear you are distressed by my viewpoint on this. You keep yelling about private, private, private. This has nothing to do with what my point has been. I have been talking about the appropriateness of hierarchy and the necessity for selective viewing of this letter from John to these special governors who govern what? But you remain hung up on privacy. I fear our viewpoints will never intersect. And I thought we had started out in such a promising note but now we are at loggerheads. I still like you though because you are persistent and loyal to that which you love. These are good qualities. Plus, you live in one of the coolest cities in the world and it hasn't eaten you alive.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 11:42 AM, danfriedman2002 wrote: But, about this Post Someone Else and Run Tactic: I'm not so crazy about it. Or, allowing posting of outright lies and rumors about somebody's private sex life and refusing to retract a slander. Anyone who allows posted comments like this on a public discussion group should be ashamed to even walk down a public street, much less host spiritual interviews. So, I object on grounds of moral turpitude and guilt by association. I don't even think this is legal in Iowa. Go figure. /For discussion purposes, let's just talk about anyone who is a serial marriage rapist instead of Hagelin, cuz I only know gossip about him, so just answer if you think TM affects morality such that a person of that ilk would be improved in, say, less than ten years of such therapy./ - Edg Subject: BatGap Panel Discussion John Hagelin, Ph.D., Igor Kufayev, and Mark McCooey. Moderated by Rick Archer Author: Duveyoung Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 11:38:58 -0700 Forum: Yahoo FFL http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife%40yahoogroups.com/msg279428.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
I am going to guess that in most cases spiritual techniques that one receives are considered private But don't let stop you from trying to spin something rather common and innocent along these lines into an indictment against TM. It's what TM obsessors do. And of course you are taking this phrase out of the context where it is given, which is right before the initiation ceremony begins. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : what is taught in private remains private I had forgotten about that! That is what the TM teachers used to say. I remember being in an elevator in the hotel in DC on a course where I got an advanced technique from good old Neal Patterson. We had been rounding for about a week and this Yankee governor who had a rather course mouth asked me how long I flew. I refused to tell him, using that very phrase, or maybe I said It's confidential. What a dumbass I was. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday From: curtisdeltablues@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 7:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. And that is exactly why people who want to keep the movement's dirty laundry hidden don't like him. They long for the good old days when they could tell people what is taught in private remains private and actually have them fall for it. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. His biggest worry *should* be Ohmygod I'm going to be perceived as the biggest idiot on planet Earth for turning this minor thing into a major one the way I did. *That* fear would at least be reality-based. :-) If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
it does appear that MMY had a penchant for young women. On 9/29/2014 11:43 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Just ignore him Rick, everyone else does. The discussion he wants to have here is a pointlessly fluffy one, him and Willytex spam this place endlessly because they don't like any opinions that contradict their own. /You are mistaken. I only object to rumors and slander where my friends or teachers are falsely accused. Everyone on this forum should object to that kind of malicious behavior. //Otherwise I assume you agree./ If they don't like free speech they should go play elsewhere. Aggravate the discussion indeed! /The problem boils down to one of moral turpitude, or the lack of it.//when you read something like what Rick just posted you seem like you are in agreement when you don't object. There's no evidence that MMY had a penchant for young women. That's just a rumor./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
On 9/29/2014 12:48 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Only someone willfully blind would see it any other way. /No single truth purveyor, no matter how reliable, should be considered an infallible font of accurate information, you included. / *From:* Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 12:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. *From:* fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment?This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Michael, I know I don't need to tell you this, but never stop posting here. The lurkers need to see the thought processes of a true TM obsessor. And I know you (feel at least) have given up channeling, but dang, you sure do play that omniscience card a lot. Hey, old habits die hard! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good reason for this kind of secrecy and need for exclusivity and as far as I can tell Hagelin's letter doesn't qualify. But maybe you have some insight I am
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
He is a Channel, Share. The funny part, is that he thinks he's moved on from it. Sort of a blind spot I'd say. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Michael, you haven't even been in Fairfield in what, twenty years! Much less been around any TMO leaders. In such a situation, I think it's wrong to attribute such negative motivations to people. On Monday, September 29, 2014 10:55 AM, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. Agreed - yet the TMO propagate TM to keeps its leaders in gold crowns and Mercedes. In short, they do it for money and ego, they like being the rajas they claim to be. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : whose privacy is being invaded? Given the nature and tone of the letter I certainly can't see why it would have to be confidential in any way. I thought he stated his reasons for finding George's conversation with MMY suspect and perhaps superfluous and it all came across as simply his viewpoint on the thing. Why Hagelin would feel he needs to keep this letter private and exclusive smacks of the hierarchical BS that seems to abound in the Movement - something I can't abide. Hagelin's letter was fine, there were no trade secrets, no mysteries revealed, nothing shocking to report. I respect his views given his experience of having been around MMY and I don't think his letter was unreasonable or extreme in any way. I don't think it needs to be private because it simply gives the reader a clear idea of where Hagelin stands on this subject (no surprises there). Dear Ann, If a person wishes to keep their private letters private. That is their right. It is not up to someone else to decide whether the content deserves privacy. Do you see that? Dan Here is what I see, Dan. The letter was addressed to Governors (of the Age of Enlightenment?).This would make this a relatively public letter. Dear Ann, are you a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? Is everyone on this forum a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. Is everybody a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment? This is not a letter from John Hagelin to another single person. It is a letter to a specific and well designated group of people. And not you. This is a leaked letter to a large group of people who, for some reason, have been singled out as worthy recipients of this correspondence. Depending on ffl to identify who is deemed worthy is absurd. At best. I think you'll be getting closer to Turq, now. Now, why would Hagelin think this is only relevant to Governors and not to all those who have questions and an interest in this George guy's message purportedly from MMY after death? Ask John Hagelin directly, you seem to feel that you are in his inner circle and need to be privy to his every thought. Which you are not. Should I repeat that again, Ann? To my mind it is because this is how the Movement appears, in this case, to be set up as some hierarchy. I say it is unnecessary BS. Hagelin's message to all of the Governors on the planet Is your implication that YOU ANN should be included in all Governor business? How was that TTC? Maharishi give you personal guidance that would change your life? Or not so? is hardly a private message. What don't you understand about a letter that is marked private? I don't like hierarchies for the sake of hierarchies. There has to be a good
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
I agree Dan. Not sure why others feel the need to advise others of what is worthy to read, and what is not I enjoy your contributions. And I appreciate you clarifying the posting of the letter. Personally I saw nothing wrong with it. It seems your objection is the lack of follow up by the person who posted it. Let's face it, leaks are a part of free speech. And I found nothing incriminating in the letter. I thought it was fairly balanced. Is there anything wrong with being concerned with how the public perceives you? Is there not enough on the internet about TM, in every facet for anyone who looks for it? Just ignore him Rick, everyone else does. The discussion he wants to have here is a pointlessly fluffy one, him and Willytex spam this place endlessly because they don't like any opinions that contradict their own. If they don't like free speech they should go play elsewhere. Aggravate the discussion indeed! Dear Mr Free Speech, Thank you for censuring me. I sincerely appreciate you're not reading. But to tell Rick what to do A little Fascistic, wouldn't you say?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Jesus Dan, Let it go. This ain't no big deal. It ain't. Ann has a perfectly balanced perspective on the whole thing. Lay off already! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. John Hagelin wrote: Private and confidential for Certified Governors on top. Is it that you don't know what Private means? Or is it that you don't understand the concept of confidential, or, let me take a wild guess: YOU ARE A CERTIFIED GOVERNOR. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity. ARE YOU INTENTIONALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE MEANING OF PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL FOR CERTIFIED GOVERNORS OR IS IT MORE? Ann? As fleet might write: Ann, would you consider stealing a look at any other scientists work?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
That seems reasonable, though not an organization I scrutinize much. Syria and the Ukraine - They are quite fucked up, as I like to say, and if I think about places that need my attention, it is places like that - Not to wring my hands in despair, but just wanting to stay connected, and informed. Same with Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and the Gaza Strip. I don't stress over so-called first world problems, much (momentarily cursing at the dumb bastard on the freeway doesn't count...). First things, first. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Hi Ann, Your exchange with Dan is interesting - Perhaps the hierarchy thing is easier to understand, from business experience, where communications have more, or less, restrictions, placed on them, intentionally. Despite the way the TMO is portrayed here, and even my own experiences within it, there remains a functioning organization, in all of that, whose purpose it is, to propagate TM. No doubt there is a lot of executive communication that occurs privately, and necessarily so. Complete transparency would not work, any more than it would for General Motors. I am not advocating complete secrecy, either, but a middle ground is there, somewhere. Hey Mac, always nice to chat and weigh in with you. I understand the hierarchy business and yet the use of hierarchy can also be used negatively - as a way of excluding in order to have power over. I don't know for sure if this is what the Movement does in general or if Hagelin is using his recent letter addressed to all Certified Governors in this way or not. What I do know is that the letter does not seem to reveal anything about what Hagelin feels that the common man or woman couldn't or shouldn't need to know if they are at all interested in pursuing what this George guy has to say in the context of his message from the deceased MMY. Frankly, I have no interest in any messages through George but the mood and tone of the November gathering might be what is most interesting - the medium vs the message. Because I don't see that the material contained in Hagelin's letter is anything but benign I don't understand the need to exclude others from reading it but, hey, that's just me. On the other hand, I know how hierarchies work and they are necessary in many cases but not for the reason of making others feel less important or less able to process a message. Hierarchies are there to preserve order and structure and I have no problem with that as long as they are not a way to practice the worst kind of exclusivity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Even though you did not adress this to me I appreciate your question. It's important because being able to distinguish is absolutely crucial on all levels of life. It simply boils down to intuition. It can't be explained and even mentioning such a thing on FFL opens the gates spite and ridicule. Nevertheless, allowing intuition to filter through the many facets of mind and start trusting it has been and continue to be of great help and guidance. M: I appreciate your response Nabbie. And up to this point I am on board with your view. Intuition does not have to take a mystical connotation if we recognize that it will reflect the limits of our own minds. But this is still a wonderful thing because our minds are bigger than what we consciously access. So we can be surprised with the wisdom that can emerge in context consciously, and it can appear quite magical. This is why I try to put myself into different situations and challenging performances. I get pushed to let myself access things that I can't usually reach. But for me there is a line I draw about how accurate information beyond my conscious mind is. I can be way wrong unconsciously due to all sorts of reasons, just as I can be consciously. N: When intuition is clear it always turns out to be correct. M: And here we part ways. This just smacks of being overconfident about how good your intuition really is. I am not begrudging you that it can be better than your conscious mind sometimes, but it can also be very off and this brings up my objection with relying on this subjective means of knowledge beyond testing outside. There is also a bit of a subjective spin bias in that most people with this belief, when proven wrong with a particular intuition just say that it wasn't really the right level of intuition so they get to cherry pick results. This is compounded by the fact that we are built to have a cognitive blind spot concerning remembering the accurate score card on our successes. People are built to fool themselves with overconfidence. N: And I'm with -fleetwood on this one; this George fellow seems to want attention, M: I would challenge that we don't have enough data for this conclusion. As a performer, non performers often believe this is my motivation. What they miss is that in the act of performance I disappear as an ego and flow into a performance state that is the opposite of self consciousness. There is no one left to take the attention! After a show if someone compliments me I feel odd as if I just had the best seat in the house to enjoy the same show. So I am a bit skeptical of this attribution to George, especially this early. N: if not he would simply post his message somewhere and leave it at that. You don't need a very strong intuition to realize that craving for attention is not a very good starting point if you want to be taken seriously in a spiritual movement. M: Not if he was sincere and his instructions were different from that way of getting the information out. I've got no dog in this race, so you may turn out to be right. But as an example of how we make assumptions and then feel an unwarranted confidence in those assumptions, this is a great example. I am inclined to believe that he is sincere in his conviction about the seriousness of this message just as Jim is about his own subjective experiences. It is a fascinating litmus test for the way the movement functions including the theme of throwing Jerry under the bus AGAIN! John Hagelin has made a huge tactical blunder in my opinion. He has rightly recognized a challenge to the authority of the movement's power structure, this is a serious challenge. It is made all the more serious because Jerry, who has heard direct messages from Maharishi through George has said that only Maharishi could have known these things. (I am not saying Jerry couldn't be fooled, I can't know this, but it is a fact that he is convinced that this is Maharishi.) John H is TIME magazine in the 60s warning about the dangers of LSD and every kid in the Midwest who had never heard of LSD before started saying where can I get some? He should have blown this whole thing off rather than shoot over the bow, elevating this to code red proportions IMO. So George is acting with the confidence you are expressing about intition in his own subjective experience. This demonstrates the essence of the problem with how humans act in overconfidence with there compelling subjective experiences. We have a shitty track record in this regard. We are vulnerable to confusing epistemological solidity to beliefs due to the intensity of our beliefs rather than evidence. And perversely our minds are full of justifications for this cognitive gap. We think our intuition is fool proof, but we give ourselves an out that is wasn't really our intuition when counter-evidence shows up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 6:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Yeah, isn't that great? Welcome to the 21st century.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Curtis, not only is is a digital age, it is also an age in which many people have highly developed intuition. In which case, it's a waste of time and energy to attempt to hide info. On Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:57 PM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Rick's challenge to the no talk rule of the closed dysfunctional family in the movement shines light on what they might prefer was not evaluated by people who are not insiders. He has broken the spell of labeling all critical discussion as negativity. Most of the discussions we have here would not be approved of by the movement whose self conscious fixation with its own manufactured image was demonstrated by John Hagelin's letter. His biggest worry is how this will look to the public. FFL stands as a place where open discussion is held above PR image spinning. If the movement knew what was good for its future in this digital age, they would drop the whole routine of : Don't tell your sister what I said, but I think she could drop a few pounds and lose that leach of a boyfriend. And don't get me started on that new tattoo! Now remember, don't tell her what I said or Christmas dinner is going to be AWKWARD again. (The no thought dysfunctional family rule blocked out the discussion of Daddy's drinking and how it leads to hitting Mom at holidays.) Dysfunctional family: No talk rule leads to no thought rule leads to many lives we see around us, including that dashing fellow in the mirror. (My mirror, my adjectives!) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
Yeah I know - kudos to Rick for being very forthcoming and having the common sense that it is the shit that is done in the dark that leads to so much of the garbage that happens in the Movement. I am sure his act of posting it will endear him even more to you, Sri and your buddy Nabby. From: sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 12:31 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday
he believes that the truth should set you free From: danfriedman2002 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 1:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry email to John sent on Sunday ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It is also labelled personal and confidential not meant to be a public document but a private conversation, but posted here anyways. Rick Archer posted it. He consistently attempts to aggravate the discussion at Fairfieldlife. He uses this forum as his propaganda tool. Not respectful of others.
