Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
On 5/25/2014 10:06 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? Because TM is just sitting around with your eyes closed and thinking about things, followed by some bum-bouncing? The only thing that could be unpleasant about this activity /is your own mind/. I'm beginning to think you don't have a mind, if you think you can sell us this snake-oil - you're stating to sound like a circus barker trying to us some sell-snake oil. Maybe it's time for you to start thinking things over before you hit the Send button. You're not even making any sense anymore. Is there any evidence that TM and TMSP do anything? If so, please post the evidence here. Thank you, Sir. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Steve, I still think being a parent is the hardest job in the world and admire those who take it on. Hope things smooth out for your oldest. Whenever you mention him, I do a quick ho'oponopono. On Sunday, May 25, 2014 8:57 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks. She wanted a smaller college for him. The big state college didn't work out so well for the oldest. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, they look like really nice young adults. And Univ of Dayton isn't so far away (-: On Sunday, May 25, 2014 8:07 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The graduate and the daughter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Thanks. It was a nice ceremony. He scored a 29 on his ACT, and got some good money from University of Dayton, so that is where he is going.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Steve, just to say that I appreciate so much of what you posted today. So balanced and at peace with the human condition. I think that is what I treasure most in your posts. My SO died of a heart attack the day after our last 2 phone calls. In that last phone call he reported having gone for a walk and experiencing chest and arm pain. I suggested that he, just to be safe, go to an emergency room. But he didn't and the next day he died, age 46, with no family history of heart disease. Sometimes I still feel guilty that I wasn't convincing enough to get him to go to the ER. Because he was interested in the bardo and between live, etc., I've read a bit about that. One thing the *experts *say is that souls basically are given a choice whether to have an easy life or a life focused on learning lessons and growing. That might be true. I don't know for sure. But I'm pretty sure that no one can fathom all that's involved in any one soul's path of evolution. Or even just the choices of one lifetime! On Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:52 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A nice rap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick The Bucket List. Others preferred being put to sleep, as their pets are. For me, the best method of checking oneself out I've ever heard came from a friend I met in the Rama trip. He had worked as a biologist, and thus with a poison called tetrodotoxin. It comes from the Japanese fugu fish, and is a powerful nerve toxin. We kinda know its subjective effects because the Japanese actually consider fugu fish a delicacy, and eat it. This all goes well if the delicacy is prepared properly by a master sushi chef. If it's a lesser chef, sometimes the gourmets die, right there in the restaurant. It happens more often than you might imagine...the Japanese are an odd people. Occasionally, however, someone gets a big mouthful of tetrodotoxin and survives. So they can tell us what almost dying from it was like. What it does is shut down sensations from the bodily functions while leaving the mind completely alert. This appealed to my Rama-group friend, because he was a big believer in the Tibetan idea of being as conscious as, possible when diving into the Bardo. For people who believe this, being either so doped up with painkillers that you can't think clearly or being put to sleep is not a good option because your mind is either not clear or not even functioning. So my friend actually *saved* a vial of tetrodotoxin for his own use, should he ever feel the need to check himself out in the future. He has since died, and in one of the most painful manners possible, of pancreatic cancer. I was not in touch with him when he was sick, and only heard about his death after the fact, but it really wouldn't surprise me if he checked out by imbibing from his long-saved vial of tetrodotoxin. And if he did, I have no problems with this. It was his choice, and if he made it, bully for him. In other cases, suicide is not such a clear-cut thing. It leaves karmic ripples that can harm others. I know that my brother's kids are still fucked up by the fact that their father took his own life. I know that I'm still a little
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick The Bucket List. Others preferred being put to sleep, as their pets are. For me, the best method of checking oneself out I've ever heard came from a friend I met in the Rama trip. He had worked as a biologist, and thus with a poison called tetrodotoxin. It comes from the Japanese fugu fish, and is a powerful nerve toxin. We kinda know its subjective effects because the Japanese actually consider fugu fish a delicacy, and eat it. This all goes well if the delicacy is prepared properly by a master sushi chef. If it's a lesser chef, sometimes the gourmets die, right there in the restaurant. It happens more often than you might imagine...the Japanese
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Michael, I don't think that any of these people are saying that all good things come from TM. I think the essence of the teaching, and I'm not a TM teacher, is that all good things come from Being, or whatever one wants to call it, and that TM is the most reliable way to contact Being on a regular basis. As for explaining what happens during human life, I think you're wrongly labeling useful knowledge as excuses. And as I said earlier, I think you and turq, etc. have thrown out the baby with the bath water. On Sunday, May 25, 2014 10:10 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Thanks Share. I'm heading to my son's graduation from HS at the Peabody Opera house. Will catch up later on. (-: On the Saturday my dad died, I had talked to him the night before, and because he had leftovers we decided not to go out for dinner,or for me to bring anything over. Then on Saturday, I just got kind of lazy and didn't call him all day. Typically during the week I would not talk to him during the day as he had a care giver. But then about 6:00, my wife and I were at a HS football game and I turned to her and said, I better call him, as I hadn't heard from him all day. After not reaching him after numerous tries, I said we better leave. We found him in bed, passed away with a relatively calm expression on his face. I was glad that he appeared to have a peaceful death, in this sleep. I called the police, and the kinda funny thing was, that the coroner started to question me, like where I had been etc. This,even though they had been to his house on a couple of occasions when he had some scares. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, just to say that I appreciate so much of what you posted today. So balanced and at peace with the human condition. I think that is what I treasure most in your posts. My SO died of a heart attack the day after our last 2 phone calls. In that last phone call he reported having gone for a walk and experiencing chest and arm pain. I suggested that he, just to be safe, go to an emergency room. But he didn't and the next day he died, age 46, with no family history of heart disease. Sometimes I still feel guilty that I wasn't convincing enough to get him to go to the ER. Because he was interested in the bardo and between live, etc., I've read a bit about that. One thing the *experts *say is that souls basically are given a choice whether to have an easy life or a life focused on learning lessons and growing. That might be true. I don't know for sure. But I'm pretty sure that no one can fathom all that's involved in any one soul's path of evolution. Or even just the choices of one lifetime! On Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:52 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A nice rap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick The Bucket List. Others preferred being put to sleep, as their pets are. For me, the best method of checking oneself out I've ever heard came from a friend I met in the Rama trip. He had worked as a biologist, and thus with a poison called tetrodotoxin. It comes from the Japanese fugu fish, and is a powerful nerve toxin. We kinda know its subjective effects because the Japanese actually consider fugu fish a delicacy, and eat it. This all goes well if the delicacy is prepared properly by a master sushi chef. If it's a lesser chef, sometimes the gourmets die, right there in the restaurant. It happens more often than you might imagine...the Japanese are an odd people. Occasionally, however, someone gets a big mouthful of tetrodotoxin and survives. So they can tell us what almost dying from it was like. What it does is shut down sensations from the bodily functions while leaving the mind completely alert.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Steve, congratulations on your son's graduation. I hope it was a wonderful ceremony. The Opera House sounds like a pretty cool venue. Has he selected a college yet? Good that your Dad had a peaceful passing and that you all found him so soon. My big regret is that my SO and I did not say I love you much. So now I say it whenever I sign off with a loved one. On Sunday, May 25, 2014 12:22 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Thanks Share. I'm heading to my son's graduation from HS at the Peabody Opera house. Will catch up later on. (-: On the Saturday my dad died, I had talked to him the night before, and because he had leftovers we decided not to go out for dinner,or for me to bring anything over. Then on Saturday, I just got kind of lazy and didn't call him all day. Typically during the week I would not talk to him during the day as he had a care giver. But then about 6:00, my wife and I were at a HS football game and I turned to her and said, I better call him, as I hadn't heard from him all day. After not reaching him after numerous tries, I said we better leave. We found him in bed, passed away with a relatively calm expression on his face. I was glad that he appeared to have a peaceful death, in this sleep. I called the police, and the kinda funny thing was, that the coroner started to question me, like where I had been etc. This,even though they had been to his house on a couple of occasions when he had some scares. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, just to say that I appreciate so much of what you posted today. So balanced and at peace with the human condition. I think that is what I treasure most in your posts. My SO died of a heart attack the day after our last 2 phone calls. In that last phone call he reported having gone for a walk and experiencing chest and arm pain. I suggested that he, just to be safe, go to an emergency room. But he didn't and the next day he died, age 46, with no family history of heart disease. Sometimes I still feel guilty that I wasn't convincing enough to get him to go to the ER. Because he was interested in the bardo and between live, etc., I've read a bit about that. One thing the *experts *say is that souls basically are given a choice whether to have an easy life or a life focused on learning lessons and growing. That might be true. I don't know for sure. But I'm pretty sure that no one can fathom all that's involved in any one soul's path of evolution. Or even just the choices of one lifetime! On Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:52 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A nice rap. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick The Bucket List. Others preferred being put to sleep, as their pets are. For me, the best method of checking oneself out I've ever heard came from a friend I met in the Rama trip. He had worked as a biologist, and thus with a poison called tetrodotoxin. It comes from the Japanese fugu fish, and is a powerful nerve toxin. We kinda know its subjective effects because the Japanese actually consider fugu fish a delicacy, and eat it. This all goes well if the delicacy is
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Michael, you really need to get a life other than this anti TM campaign. It's not a matter of whether to stay silent or not on an issue. You are stuck in a simplistic understanding about the whole organization. Sorry to sound so condescending, but no other way to see it, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found that beheading scored high on some people's Kick The Bucket List. Others preferred being put to sleep, as their pets are. For me, the best method of checking oneself out I've ever heard came from a friend I met in the Rama trip. He had worked as a biologist, and thus with a poison called tetrodotoxin. It comes from the Japanese fugu fish, and is a powerful nerve
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Thanks. It was a nice ceremony. He scored a 29 on his ACT, and got some good money from University of Dayton, so that is where he is going.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
you are wearing blinders and are being willfully ignorant of what the TMO is all about. From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Michael, you really need to get a life other than this anti TM campaign. It's not a matter of whether to stay silent or not on an issue. You are stuck in a simplistic understanding about the whole organization. Sorry to sound so condescending, but no other way to see it, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting that this suicide talk comes up just after a digression dealing with people's preferred methods of going out. Parsing them, I found
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
You get called out on inaccuracies pretty regularly. You can go back and find them yourself, or not. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : you are wearing blinders and are being willfully ignorant of what the TMO is all about. From: steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Michael, you really need to get a life other than this anti TM campaign. It's not a matter of whether to stay silent or not on an issue. You are stuck in a simplistic understanding about the whole organization. Sorry to sound so condescending, but no other way to see it, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do this WRONG thing. I'm not drawn that way, and never have been. I think that in some situations, suicide can be a viable and graceful option available to those who have few others. Terminal illnesses in which their last few days can be reliably be predicted to be 24/7 pain is one such situation. The country I currently live in believes similarly, and offers physician-assisted suicide as an option to the terminally ill. At the same time, they *don't* offer it to someone who is feeling down because he never had any luck with women and was still a virgin at 22. The doctors who run the assisted-suicide centers are skilled at detecting such people, and referring them to a similarly-paid-for-by-their-affordable-health-insurance psychiatrist or social worker. If this option had been present in Isla Vista (original home of MIU) recently, several more people would still be alive today. I find it interesting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
What would be the explanation for TM itself bringing about suicide? Yes, everyone has noticed that on extended rounding, people tend to get... odd... and people with severe mental problems likely shouldn't be doing extended rounding. There's also a known anxiety disorder, Relaxation Induced Anxiety, which is where ANY kind of relaxation can cause what we TMers sometimes call unstressing, and such people obviously shouldn't be doing TM without medical supervision, if at all. There may be specific kinds of depression where TM makes things worse, as well. Don't know of any research on it, but some depressions seem to be associated with higher levels of alpha EEG, so it isn't a rocket science to be at least somewhat concerned, but I believe that TM teachers try to avoid teaching people under medical supervision for mental disorders without talking to doctors, or is that not the case? There's also a really sad situation, brought about by MMY's attitude in later life, and/or a New Age attitude, that Doctors and/or Modern Medicine, are Very Bad™ and some TMers avoid seeking medical help when they need it, whether it is mental or physical or both. Any of the above scenarios might be a a situation where TM is a contributing factor to suicide. Do you have in mind some other situation? L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Michael, you really need to get a life other than this anti TM campaign. It's not a matter of whether to stay silent or not on an issue. You are stuck in a simplistic understanding about the whole organization. Sorry to sound so condescending, but no other way to see it, I'm afraid. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Question - how can it be ok for D Lynch, Jim Carrey, that jackass Russel Brand and all the TM fanatics like Bob Roth and Ken Chawkin to absolutely claim that all things good come from TM, that everything good in a TM'ers life came from TM, that all their achievements can be traced to TM practice, yet anything untoward happens and there's an excuse? Why can't unpleasant things be equally attributed to TM and TMSP? From: dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide Turquoiseb, Good observations and good thoughtful post that adds to the discussion, thanks. -Buck For some gung-ho locally of their own making there can potentially be a lot of pressure around some expectations of 'enlightenment'. As a set up, sort of like the young girl who in her salutatorian graduation speech to the students yesterday set up 'enlightenment'. From that some could have troubles with a personal dissonance of their own that they possibly are not up there with 'enlightenment' or possibly not made much progress along the way. Their lack of 'enlightenment' even though they practice and possibly have some awakening but may be not up there enough by standard hoped for. It seems some people possibly more prone to depression or just less mature can also be triggered down on themselves over reflections of low, slow or poor progress in awakening towards what all is projected as a full 'enlightenment'. May be as something spiritually more than just, 'Be here Now' awakenings towards a spiritual depression related to expectations about where is that big 'enlightenment', like with invincibility? Words. Some people. No doubt some complete anti-TM people like MJ here will seize and jump all over this line of thought deducting it is all about TM. Of course it is not that simple. Spiritual depression is written about all through time. There can also be lots of side effects of just seeking allotropic help in medication too, like warnings on prescription bottles about quick thoughts of suicide that get acted on. Or in vodka. It is not simple. We all should be feeling vigilant around this and willing to be pro-active, like choosing [as Jim Carrey, as we learned at commencement, for instance] to give love as attention to people around us. Healing. Everyone. And, an effective transcending quiet time can be of quite helpful use too in that. -Buck in the Dome turquoiseb writes: Really. This issue really IS not related to TM or any other belief system in my mind, because I've been on the survivor side of suicide a couple of times and gotten to experience the emotional and karmic ripples that emanate from it. I know that there are some here who are opposed to suicide for religious reasons. They may claim not to be, but whether they call it the wrath of God awaiting the suicidee or the terrible karmic consequences awaiting him, the bottom line is that they can been conditioned to believe that it's WRONG. And that Bad Shit will happen in the afterlife to those who do
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
The graduate and the daughter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Thanks. It was a nice ceremony. He scored a 29 on his ACT, and got some good money from University of Dayton, so that is where he is going.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Steve, they look like really nice young adults. And Univ of Dayton isn't so far away (-: On Sunday, May 25, 2014 8:07 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The graduate and the daughter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Thanks. It was a nice ceremony. He scored a 29 on his ACT, and got some good money from University of Dayton, so that is where he is going.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pondering the non-TM-related issue of suicide
Thanks. She wanted a smaller college for him. The big state college didn't work out so well for the oldest. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Steve, they look like really nice young adults. And Univ of Dayton isn't so far away (-: On Sunday, May 25, 2014 8:07 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote: The graduate and the daughter. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Thanks. It was a nice ceremony. He scored a 29 on his ACT, and got some good money from University of Dayton, so that is where he is going.
