Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Tim: We had the smolt thing that sends a hardware report off to a database. There's a certain presumption that regular monthly updates by your client indicates that your hardware does actually work. See: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/ (and don't forget to have a look at the various statistics). Mike Cloaked: Indeed and a minute ago I notice that currently the OS page shows F11 50.7% and F12 11.6% - I wonder if the ratio of F12 to F11 users will change markedly over the next month? I was also thinking of the devices... You get statistics for numbers of certain types of hardware. So, lots of people with a certain graphics card, for instance, suggests that it works. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/26/2009 05:03 AM, Craig White wrote: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:28 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:14 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. Define 'hung'. Was the scrollbar moving at all. Generally, hangs like that are often indicative of a hardware problem, rather than the software one. Especially the tail end of an Anaconda upgrade, which is disk intensive. hung as in... - no disk activity - unable to switch to virtual consoleControlAltF2 (# or F3/F4) - no visible activity on screen Virtual console switching is driven by the kernel. I can think of only three possible causes that have this result: 1) A kernel bug 2) A bug in x.org (including the x.org driver for your video card) 3) A hardware problem I agree and I lost all opportunity to debug when I pushed the reboot button but that to me meant hung. Craig Install did succeded once for me, without any hang after 3-4 hangs at the end of installation. Now i have to hard reboot the system now and then, the issue in logged up as https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=539494. -- Saurabh Sharma Linux user number: 490644 http://sawrub-blog.blogspot.com/ Open your doors...It's time to look beyond Windows -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Tim-163 wrote: We had the smolt thing that sends a hardware report off to a database. There's a certain presumption that regular monthly updates by your client indicates that your hardware does actually work. See: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/ (and don't forget to have a look at the various statistics). Indeed and a minute ago I notice that currently the OS page shows F11 50.7% and F12 11.6% - I wonder if the ratio of F12 to F11 users will change markedly over the next month? -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/Is-F12-ready-to-upgradeIs-it-worth-it---tp26515536p26545376.html Sent from the Fedora List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/28/2009 01:29 AM, Mike Cloaked wrote: Indeed and a minute ago I notice that currently the OS page shows F11 50.7% and F12 11.6% - I wonder if the ratio of F12 to F11 users will change markedly over the next month? You can look at the current growth rate and for previous releases at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legacy_statistics Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Tim wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? On a support list you, typically, see more problems than all is well postings. It surprises me that there is not a greater attempt to get feed-back on the frequency of problems, or equally, the lack of problems. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to design an online form that Fedora users could be asked to complete. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/26/2009 12:53 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: Tim wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? On a support list you, typically, see more problems than all is well postings. It surprises me that there is not a greater attempt to get feed-back on the frequency of problems, or equally, the lack of problems. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to design an online form that Fedora users could be asked to complete. There are certainly issues with X11 graphics in F12. On 4 different systems I have installed it on 3 do not work in 3D (System hangs, etc). 2 of the systems have hangs (X11 and/or system) in 2D. The problems I have experienced and I believe a number of others are experiencing are due to graphics driver problems (DRM,DRI,MESA,X11) with certain graphics chip sets (At least 4 different ones in my case). I know there are a lot of changes happening on the Graphics front, but I do feel its time to focus on fixing these issues rather than spending valuable developer and user time on a new release ... -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Terry Barnaby wrote: It surprises me that there is not a greater attempt to get feed-back on the frequency of problems, or equally, the lack of problems. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to design an online form that Fedora users could be asked to complete. There are certainly issues with X11 graphics in F12. On 4 different systems I have installed it on 3 do not work in 3D (System hangs, etc). 2 of the systems have hangs (X11 and/or system) in 2D. If you don't mind my using your problem as a hook to hang an opinion on: You have had graphics problems with 3 out of 4 machines. Personally, I have had no graphics problems with Fedora-12/KDE on 5 machines, though I have had other minor (and unimportant) problems. But how rare or common is your experience? Have only 5% of Fedora users had graphics problems with F-12? Or is it 50%? Or 75%? I don't see how it is possible to plan development rationally without some idea of the statistics. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/26/2009 02:08 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: Terry Barnaby wrote: It surprises me that there is not a greater attempt to get feed-back on the frequency of problems, or equally, the lack of problems. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to design an online form that Fedora users could be asked to complete. There are certainly issues with X11 graphics in F12. On 4 different systems I have installed it on 3 do not work in 3D (System hangs, etc). 2 of the systems have hangs (X11 and/or system) in 2D. If you don't mind my using your problem as a hook to hang an opinion on: You have had graphics problems with 3 out of 4 machines. Personally, I have had no graphics problems with Fedora-12/KDE on 5 machines, though I have had other minor (and unimportant) problems. But how rare or common is your experience? Have only 5% of Fedora users had graphics problems with F-12? Or is it 50%? Or 75%? I don't see how it is possible to plan development rationally without some idea of the statistics. I agree. I could be unlucky with my particular systems. Although from the forum there apear to be many people having install problems that sound like Graphics driver issues. I am also mainly talking about 3D apps that, I guess, a lot of people do not use. Are there any statistics of actual F12 users, not just those who downloaded the systems and installed them ? (I have test installed 5 F12 systems but use none of them). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Thu, 2009-11-26 at 12:53 +, Timothy Murphy wrote: It surprises me that there is not a greater attempt to get feed-back on the frequency of problems, or equally, the lack of problems. I would have thought it would be relatively easy to design an online form that Fedora users could be asked to complete. It has been done before, but I can see all sorts of things against it. You really need to survey people some time after the install. When they've had time to get their computer through its teething problems, and have had time to try it all and see if it works or not. Whereas surveying people immediately after the install just checks out whether the install worked, or not. Some will say all is fine, but without really checking whether their computer does work fine, simply because the installation seemed to go well. Or you get a fail, as they couldn't install, and gave up. Whereas their computer might have worked, if only some small obstacle could have been overcome (e.g. with one of my old computers, all that was needed to be able to install Fedora was to unplug the IDE zip drive). People would rather not go through a lengthy survey, and a short one is probably going to be too useless. And with any survey you get people who deliberately feed false data (either to waste your time, or just quickly get through some parts of a survey). It is quite an art to construct a good survey, many surveys are not. You've also got to do something useful with the data. We had the smolt thing that sends a hardware report off to a database. There's a certain presumption that regular monthly updates by your client indicates that your hardware does actually work. See: http://smolt.fedoraproject.org/ (and don't forget to have a look at the various statistics). -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I was expecting a totally different response. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? Thanks. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 09:13 -0700, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I was expecting a totally different response. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? F12 seems very good and very stable. Problems seem to relate to nVidia video, kernel mode setting. One other problem seems to be preupgrade has been less than smooth for too many people. In my case, it hung at what was seemingly the final step and it required a bunch of cleanup afterwards. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 09:19 -0700, Craig White wrote: Problems seem to relate to nVidia video, kernel mode setting. Tell us more... I'm reading a lot of posts here but not getting the picture. Which nvidia devices, which driver (nvidia proprietary or nouveau) and what is the work around if it doesn't work after the upgrade ? Thanks -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I installed from scratch on a new partition as I always do, and had virtually no problems. I find f12 to be one of the better releases. My impression is all the trouble starts when you try to upgrade in place. That isn't a process I would ever trust to work anyway :-). -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 12:15 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I installed from scratch on a new partition as I always do, and had virtually no problems. I find f12 to be one of the better releases. My impression is all the trouble starts when you try to upgrade in place. That isn't a process I would ever trust to work anyway :-). +1 John -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I was expecting a totally different response. Except of the usual issues related to FC12 shipping older packages than FC11 and the usual side effects of other packaging bugs, for me upgrading from FC11 to FC12 went comparatively smooth. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? So far, I haven't had many issues. Actually to me, current FC12 appears more stable than last week's FC11 before upgrading. Of course, YMMV. Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? I would say so, yes, it is worth it. Ralf -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 12:15 -0500, Tom Horsley wrote: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I installed from scratch on a new partition as I always do, and had virtually no problems. I find f12 to be one of the better releases. My impression is all the trouble starts when you try to upgrade in place. That isn't a process I would ever trust to work anyway :-). The past few upgrades, preupgrade has worked very well for me actually with minimal interaction and only required the network stage 2 boot because my /boot is only 100M as was the norm way back when. Most users are not going to have a 'new partition' ready to install so whatever works for you is not a normal user scenario. Obviously with the rapid churn of Fedora, a simple upgrade mechanism for users is highly desirable and when it works, it's good and when it doesn't, hopefully it's bugzilla'd (but awfully hard to repeat or report) Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. I think perhaps preupgrade should automatically remove all but the latest and if not the same, the currently running kernel to make all possible space in /boot. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Linuxguy123 linuxguy...@gmail.com wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? Remember the bias here is *heavily* in favor of those with problems. I doubt the actual experiences of users are like that. Of course, that is just a guess. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? x86_64 desktop, older hardware. Definitely yes. Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? Everyone's situation is different. I first installed it in early September as rawhide expecting to play with it until release. It was so stable that within a week I was using it as my production system and never went back. That might not have been the case for someone with a different use case. However, I will give a general recommendation. I suggest that you never upgrade your only system. If you have a desktop, disk is so cheap (I paid $75 for a terabyte sata drive!) that you should have at least two versions of linux installed at all times. When you upgrade, either reinstall over the older version or upgrade the older version. I like doing yum upgrades, but you can back up your data, try preupgrade. If it works, excellent. If it doesn't, use a DVD or netinstall and fresh install. You then have the current working distribution as a fallback while you clean up any issues your new version has. Unless you're an adrenaline junky, I can't see why to do it any other way. If you have a laptop, the same applies, except you can use a portable USB drive (I think I saw $50 for a 160 GB). Install to the portable. Once you get it working, have all your data there, tuned, overwrite the internal drive with the working version from the external drive. Problems? Boot to the external drive again and fix them. Never without a working system. I *never* use the defaults that the update media suggests for disk partitioning, always use the custom configuration option. And I always do a bare minimum install (fast) and then put everything I want on the system after it is functioning if I'm not upgrading. That way I can be tuning while the packages are installing on the live system. It helps to know a little scripting if you are going to do it this way. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/25/2009 10:58 PM, Craig White wrote: I think perhaps preupgrade should automatically remove all but the latest and if not the same, the currently running kernel to make all possible space in /boot. By automatically, if you mean, do after prompting, it isn't a bad idea. Please file a RFE. Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 22:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: On 11/25/2009 10:58 PM, Craig White wrote: I think perhaps preupgrade should automatically remove all but the latest and if not the same, the currently running kernel to make all possible space in /boot. By automatically, if you mean, do after prompting, it isn't a bad idea. Please file a RFE. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=541371 Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 8:13 AM, Linuxguy123 linuxguy...@gmail.com wrote: Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? It seems to be for me. It actually seems a little happier than my F10 was. preupgrade worked fine. Much stabler than I expected. -- Jonathan Gardner jgard...@jonathangardner.net -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
I have upgraded one desk top and one laptop successully. I had a small glitch on the laptop in that I didn't have a tool bar. I found that that was caused by my installing it while it was in the (senior momemt). desktop cradle and the monitor settings were incorrect probably due to the kvm switch. BobW On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 09:13 -0700, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I was expecting a totally different response. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? Thanks. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Am Mittwoch, den 25.11.2009, 09:13 -0700 schrieb Linuxguy123: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I was expecting a totally different response. You should take into account that all those people who could upgrade without any problem usually don't report on the list. So the list represents rather a biased selection. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? Personally, I had no problems using the traditional way, booting from F12 DVD. But I don't use propriarity drivers (as ATI/Nvidea or others), which used to cause glitches. F12 has some new features (see release notes) which come in quite handy for me and I'm luckily using some of them. Peter -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On 11/26/2009 01:07 AM, Peter Boy wrote: F12 has some new features (see release notes) which come in quite handy for me and I'm luckily using some of them. I am curious, which features in particular? Rahul -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Tom Horsley writes: On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:38 -0700 Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? I installed from scratch on a new partition as I always do, and had virtually no problems. I find f12 to be one of the better releases. My impression is all the trouble starts when you try to upgrade in place. That isn't a process I would ever trust to work anyway :-). One of my servers has been upgraded in place since Fedora 8, or whatever version of Fedora was first built for x86_64. On average, upgrades in place either work fine, or you can't even upgrade at all. The middle grown is very thin. pgpYC2ZX2MM2t.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. Define 'hung'. Was the scrollbar moving at all. Generally, hangs like that are often indicative of a hardware problem, rather than the software one. Especially the tail end of an Anaconda upgrade, which is disk intensive. pgpa1WiV7YBCy.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:14 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. Define 'hung'. Was the scrollbar moving at all. Generally, hangs like that are often indicative of a hardware problem, rather than the software one. Especially the tail end of an Anaconda upgrade, which is disk intensive. hung as in... - no disk activity - unable to switch to virtual console ControlAltF2 (# or F3/F4) - no visible activity on screen Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:14 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. Define 'hung'. Was the scrollbar moving at all. Generally, hangs like that are often indicative of a hardware problem, rather than the software one. Especially the tail end of an Anaconda upgrade, which is disk intensive. hung as in... - no disk activity - unable to switch to virtual console ControlAltF2 (# or F3/F4) - no visible activity on screen Virtual console switching is driven by the kernel. I can think of only three possible causes that have this result: 1) A kernel bug 2) A bug in x.org (including the x.org driver for your video card) 3) A hardware problem pgphSO74xqx2f.pgp Description: PGP signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:28 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:14 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: Craig White writes: On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 18:20 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote: On 11/25/2009 05:13 PM, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? AFAICT, almost all of the upgrade issues are related to preupgrade demands on /boot's sizes ;-) I don't think so. The list reports seem to center on the big scary warning about /boot size but that warning is intentional. In my case, anaconda literally hung at the end of the process and I have seen another report that claimed the same thing. Define 'hung'. Was the scrollbar moving at all. Generally, hangs like that are often indicative of a hardware problem, rather than the software one. Especially the tail end of an Anaconda upgrade, which is disk intensive. hung as in... - no disk activity - unable to switch to virtual console ControlAltF2 (# or F3/F4) - no visible activity on screen Virtual console switching is driven by the kernel. I can think of only three possible causes that have this result: 1) A kernel bug 2) A bug in x.org (including the x.org driver for your video card) 3) A hardware problem I agree and I lost all opportunity to debug when I pushed the reboot button but that to me meant hung. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? Normally, the folks not having problems don't feel the urge to type. Those having problems feel the need to type. :-0 I was expecting a totally different response. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? I did a fresh install of F12 with 0 problems. I also upgraded a fully updated F11 system to F12 with 0 problems. So, far...not problems with either systems. But, I must admit that I don't do interesting things on these systems. I don't install non-Fedora or customized kernels. I don't replace Fedora or rpmfusion packages with packages from other places. I prefer to use the nvidia drivers directly from nvidia. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? Normally, the folks not having problems don't feel the urge to type. Those having problems feel the need to type. :-0 I was expecting a totally different response. Is F12 stable enough to warrant upgrading to it ? Is it a worthwhile upgrade at this point ? I did a fresh install of F12 with 0 problems. I also upgraded a fully updated F11 system to F12 with 0 problems. So, far...not problems with either systems. But, I must admit that I don't do interesting things on these systems. I don't install non-Fedora or customized kernels. I don't replace Fedora or rpmfusion packages with packages from other places. I prefer to use the nvidia drivers directly from nvidia. for me... upgrading to F12 with the Nvidia drivers caused a. X not to start initially, and b. KDE to be unusable due to some nvidia bug or something-- but on the good side, the pulseaudio included in F12 fixed my laptop headphone jack-switch problem, which makes it all worth it -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Re: Is F12 ready to upgrade ? Is it worth it ?
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 09:13 -0700, Linuxguy123 wrote: I'm perplexed by the posts I am seeing regarding F12 upgrades. Lots of upgrade issues and darn faint praise as far as I can tell ? On a support list you, typically, see more problems than all is well postings. -- [...@localhost ~]$ uname -r 2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686 Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I read messages from the public lists. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
