Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Hi Hideyo, This particular study was on NATURALLY infected cats (no IP infections - Yuk) Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:50 PM Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? I will try to find it - it was an official experimental study done by someone (whom of course I can't remember)
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the "neverending" research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than "paw flailing" at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff:http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonyagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the "neverending" research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than "paw flailing" at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff:http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Yo Glenda - Very interesting! Would be interested to see a breakdown of the cats and infections. In other words, which cats were infected with what, and then which came down with what? Were there any normal non infected cats to start out with? Or just cats with viruses already. Also, i've never hear of CISTI so glad to know that. Is it available online? i'm headin out to look for it! Gloria Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
CISTI
OK - I found CISTI at http://cat.cisti.nrc.ca/ - Yeaa! Found an article on bovine lactoferrin for Herpes cats. Gloria Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract:
Re: CISTI
Bailey (and the rest of the furkids) are getting the bovine lactoferrin, have been for a while. I'mn going to start making their food very soon, I finally got all of the vitamins, minerals, and other things that have to go into it. Hope to start this week sometime. -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy Im not sure what that meanscats can have virus and have no effect??? I dont know much about FIV so maybe Im just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the studys purpose was? Sometimes, the side results of a study are not fully explored if they dont fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years agothat confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Right - the FIV cats are at less risk, and considered less contagious. It's considered to be only contagious thru deep bite wounds, so the study mentioned is interesting. Gloria At 12:15 PM 3/29/2005, you wrote: Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgfelvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
RE: OT:FIV false positive?
Well, just my own simplistic attitude about this whole thing--viruses are strange little things in humans animals. The science is just now catching up with the 'life cycle' of viruses and more more we hear about viruses that we all carry than can sort of be activated by a variety of circumstances. When it comes to the FELV virus, I sort of feel that it probably is carried by many more cats than anyone knows, that for some reason, some cats start showing symptoms become carriers, and that unless you have a kitten from birth that you test at least once a year always keep inside never expose to another cat, you never really know who is carrying what! Now, I would never consciously expose a kitten to any disease, no matter what it is, but for my adults (particularly with vaccination), I just don' think I am putting them at any greater risk than if they were out and about on their own (which they all were before they found me!). Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:29 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? Right - the FIV cats are at less risk, and considered less contagious. It's considered to be only contagious thru deep bite wounds, so the study mentioned is interesting. Gloria At 12:15 PM 3/29/2005, you wrote: Just for my own info if you con't mind--so FIV cats are really at less risk from virus than FELV cats? Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gloria B. Lane Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 1:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: OT:FIV false positive? FIV cats can normally be expected to live long lives if well cared for (for example, not outside as strays). Gloria At 10:44 AM 3/29/2005, you wrote: I have a couple of questions/thoughts on this. First, no mention of anyone vaccinated, no indication of cats' ages, etc. Also, given the shortcomings of initial testing (virus may be hidden), I would think it would be hard to tell with absolute certainty who had what when! I was also intrigued by the last statement: The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy I'm not sure what that means-cats can have virus and have no effect??? I don't know much about FIV so maybe I'm just not understanding something basic. Finally, do you know what the study's purpose was? Sometimes, the 'side' results of a study are not fully explored if they don't fall in the realm of the original purpose. And absolute last, 5 years is a long time in this field. Chris mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of catatonya Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:11 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? I don't know but I know 2 vets who mix fiv cats in their own homes with negatives. tonya gg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use CISTI which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than paw flailing at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: : Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten. The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy. PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_iciclehttp://community.webshots. com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIV really seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes... seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, the HEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays and ferals, were the FIVs. three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the cats had been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way of knowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-series sets of shots to set the immunity. as you may or may not know (i didn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infected grain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough. TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroic medical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived, so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got the distemper--not one. we saw similar results with less serious infections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn't get it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk about just dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into the general population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the only consistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpes viruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysine dropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stage symptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV cats die of old age before they appear we call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats are former toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vet suggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostly big old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselves evaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary are the FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets who know nothing about FIV--they can't possibly be sick! exactly they lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing go fish, and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring the food into the room and they say, um, could you bring that bowl a little closer to ME, please? they are the lovingest bunch of cats in the world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls (mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking their heads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of the sanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because they were just too irresistable. i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august to something totally unrelated to FIV. many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, because it's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite as deeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rare cases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes it impossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vet source.) the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is the key--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOT good about FIV before working with us, tho she now has house FIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it. and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entity during the early years of the HIV time in human medicine, and given its unfortunate misleading name then. FeLV works in cats very much as HIV does in human it terms of how it's passed, how opportunistic infections affect positive cats etc--FIV is NOTHING like that. so it is the name that is the scariest aspect of the virus. most cats were NOT tested for FIV until recently, so many male cats who were ever outdoors unneutered would test positive. if you have a healthy cat who's been indoors since you adopted/rescued him, and he's tested during a workup for something else and comes up positive--well, think of how he's been up til then. he's been FIV+ the whole time, and nothing's changed! finally, remember that the current FIV vaccine, unlike the FeLV one, ensures that a vaccinated cat will test positive forever. ie, if a vaccinated cat gets out and is caught by animal control or taken in by a rescue/vet unfamiliar with FIV, the cat will test positive and likely be euthanized. i know that there are vets who vaccinate for FIV, but i have to admit that even BEFORE i worked at the sanctuary, i never met one if you DO have a cat vaccinated against FIV, then PLEASE microchip him with that info! there's research going on right now re: DNA (PCR) testing to differentiate the strain of FIV the cat is carrying--whether it's the vaccine-induced version or not, but so far the results are mixed--and what shelter/rescue is gonna do that, anyway? there's a new vaccine, a combo FIV/FeLV one, that i don't know anything about--so i don't know if that'll have the same problem. (the
OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
This is an interesting test that I failed miserably, it's scary to think how dogs are wrongly classified as this breed and are wrongly persecuted. - Take the test and see if you can pick out the pit bull out of this page of pictures. It's amazing how many other breeds look similar. http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT:FIV false positive?
Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten*. Thank you Glenda. I stand corrected. You may, quite literally, be a life saver. I guess this is why vets don't trust anecdotal reporting. Nina gg wrote: Hi MC, Whenever I see something of interest, I use *CISTI *which allows you full access to the neverending research on whatever one wishes. The study that I recall that I ordered a few years ago that confirmed non-aggressive transmission (other than *paw flailing *at their feeding station) was this one. Here's the abstract: *: Vet Rec. 2000 Apr 8;146(15):419-24. Related Articles, Links * Long-term impact on a closed household of pet cats of natural infection with feline coronavirus, feline leukaemia virus and feline immunodeficiency virus. Addie DD, Dennis JM, Toth S, Callanan JJ, Reid S, Jarrett O. Department of Veterinary Pathology, University of Glasgow Veterinary School, Bearsden. A closed household of 26 cats in which feline coronavirus (FCoV), feline leukaemia virus (FeLV) and feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) were endemic was observed for 10 years. Each cat was seropositive for FCoV on at least one occasion and the infection was maintained by reinfection. After 10 years, three of six surviving cats were still seropositive. Only one cat, which was also infected with FIV, developed feline infectious peritonitis (FIP). Rising anti-FCoV antibody titres did not indicate that the cat would develop FIP. The FeLV infection was self-limiting because all seven of the initially viraemic cats died within five years and the remainder were immune. However, FeLV had the greatest impact on mortality. *Nine cats were initially FIV-positive and six more cats became infected during the course of the study, without evidence of having been bitten*. *The FIV infection did not adversely affect the cats' life expectancy.* PMID: 10811262 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Kind regards, Glenda Our FeLV/FIV kitties other stuff: http://community.webshots.com/user/sicky_icicle - Original Message - From: TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? hideyo, i would be very interested in seeing any info showing non-aggressive contact passing the FIV virus--that goes against everything i have read and if there IS such info, it's important that all of us with positives know! (i tend to suspect it's not current info, but since things change so quickly now that they're actually doing research, i'm open) thanks! MC
Re: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
Oh, yeah...it's a shame that the bully breeds are taking the rap for very, very bad owners! We have two dogs, Lucy (a pit bull mix) and Oscar (a lab/retriever mix), both rescues...the funny thing is, they don't come any sweeter than Lucy...I trust her completely (even around the neighbor's toddler who absolutely adores her). But most folks take one look at her and assume that she is vicious simply by her appearance. BUT OSCAR, the cute and cuddly one, the one with the adorable ears...HE'S the one we have to keep an eye on because he doesn't want to be touched by anyone he doesn't know (who does?)...when people ask if they can pet our dogs, it's always interesting to see their reactions when I say, Yes, you can pet Lucy (the vicious looking one) but not the cute and cuddly one, he could bite if he feels cornered! Our neighbors catty-corner to us also have a true pit bull...I tell ya what, she it the most well-behaved dog I've ever met! She's got a quiet confidence about her that I wish she could teach to Oscar! :) I just don't think breed-based legislation is the way to go...personally, I believe that there are no bad dogs, just very bad owners! - Original Message - From: Belinda Sauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:07 am Subject: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary] *This is an interesting test that I failed miserably, it's scary to think how dogs are wrongly classified as this breed and are wrongly persecuted. - Take the test and see if you can pick out the pit bull out of this page of pictures. It's amazing how many other breeds look similar.* *http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html* -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
Thanks Belinda! I have forwarded to other lists that I'm on. It is very interesting that many of these dogs are misread and end up being killed in the shelters. I can personally say that aboutthe infamousshelter in Everett, WA. They will euthanized anything that looksor resembles a Pit Bull. Terrie MohrCheck site for available Siameses for adoption!http://www.iGive.com/TAZZYShttps://www.paypal.com/TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTShttp://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEOwner/DriverPetfinder.comAdopt a Homeless Pet!http://www.petfinder.com/http://www.orecatay.com/http://www.awca.net/index.htmhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.petloss.com/http://www.meezer.com/http://thesiamesestore.com/http://tx.siameserescue.org/adopt.htmlhttp://ca.siameserescue.org/http://co.siameserescue.org/http://va.siameserescue.org/ inline: aks.jpginline: logobuttonsq.jpg
Re: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
Tamara, I didn't mean pits were a problem dog, as you say it is the idiots that own them that are responsible for their behaviour. My sister too has pits and they are very sweet, big babies really. They get along fine with each other and her kitty, but then, they are trained and treated properly. -- Belinda Happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties ... http://www.bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candle Light Service http://www.bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design) http://HostDesign4U.com --- BMK Designs (non-profit web sites) http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
I wish more people would see this breed specific laws are just crazy. My parents had a small llasa-terrier mix(we think) who was the cutest thing on 4 feet but would nip at anyone whenever she felt like it! I have a friend who had a small dog who got more visitors standing on chairs tableshe was a one person dog who would just get you in the ankle right above your shoe. On the other hand, I have a friend who has a pit rescue who stands at his dish crying when one of her 4 cats scoot under him to eat out of his food dish! Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sauro Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary] This is an interesting test that I failed miserably, it's scary to think how dogs are wrongly classified as this breed and are wrongly persecuted. - Take the test and see if you can pick out the pit bull out of this page of pictures. It's amazing how many other breeds look similar. http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html -- BelindaHappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties ...http://www.bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candle Light Servicehttp://www.bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design)http://HostDesign4U.com---BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly at all points!! I have three definite FIV boy cats - they are so healthy! I rescued all of them three or four years ago, and they are the chubbiest, and happiest cats of all. One developed Diabetes a couple of years ago, and I almost lost him after dental cleaning surgery due to an reaction from anesthesia, and he just laid in the room for two weeks with no food (I had to give him fluid everyday, and I couldn't force feed him as he would spit them back) - my vet thought that I should give up and euthanize him, but I couldn't, and my holistic vet thought that I should try a bit longer - and in two weeks, he stood up and started eating (I cried so hard when I saw the miracle happen) - and now he is a chubby happy boy (his name is Leo) - Since I haven't experienced with any serious symptoms with my FIV cats, I just don't know if I should make a big deal out of it at all - I have two other possibly FIV (possibly, but least likely) kitties, but they are both asymptomatic as well - they are also chubby and very healthy! I am waiting for Western Blot Result from Antech for Squeekie(Buddah)'s result to see if it will confirm their ELISA result - and I am praying and and feeling that it will come back as a negative (I am crossing my finger - and please pray for her also)- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:05 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer! oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIV really seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes... seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, the HEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays and ferals, were the FIVs. three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the cats had been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way of knowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-series sets of shots to set the immunity. as you may or may not know (i didn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infected grain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough. TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroic medical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived, so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got the distemper--not one. we saw similar results with less serious infections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn't get it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk about just dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into the general population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the only consistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpes viruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysine dropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stage symptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV cats die of old age before they appear we call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats are former toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vet suggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostly big old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselves evaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary are the FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets who know nothing about FIV--they can't possibly be sick! exactly they lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing go fish, and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring the food into the room and they say, um, could you bring that bowl a little closer to ME, please? they are the lovingest bunch of cats in the world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls (mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking their heads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of the sanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because they were just too irresistable. i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august to something totally unrelated to FIV. many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, because it's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite as deeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rare cases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes it impossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vet source.) the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is the key--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOT good about FIV before working with us, tho she now has house FIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it. and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entity during the early years of the HIV
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
It IS strange, isn't it, how cool the fiv cats are! My fiv cat was just as you described. The MOST laid back, friendly, neat cat I've ever had. HUGE! Especially when I first rescued him and he wasn't neutered yet. (I don't know his age, but he was old and died of hepatic liver disease. We didn't know his status until he got sick with that. He just started losing weight, and by the time I noticed (under all the hair), it was too late. Everyone loved him. Even those who aren't too fond of my menagerie loved Brutus. A vet came to visit our school this year with a huge cat. She passed him around the room, etc... like a puppy. She said he was one of the only cats she'd ever been able to take out to schools, etc because nothing bothered him. He was fiv positive and lived with her other cats at home. Some vets file their incisors. I don't remember if she said they'd done that or not on this guy. Come to think of it, I've never heard of anyone with a female fiv positive. Strange. tTenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: oh, heavens, yes, chris--not only that, but to a great degree, all FIVreally seems to do is make cats big, lazy and couch-potatoes...seriously--from the experiences at the FIV/FeLV sanctuary, theHEALTHIEST population--including the owner-surrenders, strays andferals, were the FIVs.three years ago, some strays brought in distemper. altho ALL the catshad been vaccinated when they came into sanctuary, we had no way ofknowing, of course, whether they'd ever gotten the full, two-seriessets of shots to "set" the immunity. as you may or may not know (ididn't), distemper spreads VERY VERY easily--as little as an infectedgrain of litter carried from room to room is said to be enough.TWO HUNDRED CATS died from that distemper episode, despite heroicmedical intervention (this happened about 6 months before i arrived,so i luckily didn't have to deal with it). not ONE FIV cat got thedistemper--not one. we saw similar results with less seriousinfections--when uris ran around the buildings, the FIVs either didn'tget it, or recovered faster. why? who knows. there was some talk aboutjust dumping the FIV room and moving them from their building into thegeneral population--but we didn't want to make them sick! the onlyconsistent medical problem that the FIVs seem more prone to is herpesviruses, and as everyone on this list knows, daily doses of lysinedropped the incidence of that right back down. there ARE end-stagesymptoms of FIV that appear in some cats, but in most cases, FIV catsdie of old age before they appearwe call the FIV room the neighborhood bar: since 95+% of FIV cats areformer toms who got it while out fighting over girls (or, as one vetsuggests, running AWAY from males fighting over girls), it's mostlybig old neutered toms. once neutered, that need to prove themselvesevaporates. did i mention BIG? the largest cats in the sanctuary arethe FIV boys--it's been great fun to take the 16#rs and up to vets whoknow nothing about FIV--"they can't possibly be sick!" exactlythey lay around all day watching tv, drinking catnip beer, playing "gofish," and talking about the mice they used to chase. you bring thefood into the room and they say, "um, could you bring that bowl alittle closer to ME, please?" they are the lovingest bunch of cats inthe world--laps are their favorite places to nap. the few girls(mostly calicos, interestingly enough) just walk around shaking theirheads wondering how they ever ended up in such a place. MANY of thesanctuary's FIV cats ended up going home with volunteers because theywere just too irresistable.i have two fivs with my cats now; lost a third last august tosomething totally unrelated to FIV.many tnr groups don't even test for FIV anymore, i'm told, becauseit's such a nothing disease--again, once neutered, the urge to bite asdeeply as needed to transmit the disease disappears. (in the rarecases an FIV remains aggressive, pulling the canine teeth makes itimpossible to inflict a deep enough bite, according to one vetsource.)the sentence about the FIV not affecting their life expectancy is thekey--as one of my vets said last time i was there (and she was NOTgood about FIV before working with us, tho she now has houseFIVs)--FIV cats die WITH FIV, not FROM it.and three important things to remember: FIV was recognized/defined/whatever as a particular, separate entityduring the early years of the HIV time in human medicine, and givenits unfortunate misleading name then. FeLV works in cats very much asHIV does in human it terms of how it's passed, how opportunisticinfections affect positive cats etc--FIV is NOTHING like that. so itis the name that is the scariest aspect of the virus.most cats were NOT tested for FIV until recently, so many male catswho were ever outdoors unneutered would test positive. if you have ahealthy cat who's been indoors since you adopted/rescued him, and he'stested during a workup for something else and comes up positive--well,think of how he's
RE: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary]
A friend of mine had a pit that the cats slept on. If she moved or tried to nudge them away he would say "Sally, let the cats sleep." And she would kind of moan and lay back down. lol. ttamara stickler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wish more people would see this… breed specific laws are just crazy. My parents had a small llasa-terrier mix(we think) who was the cutest thing on 4 feet but would nip at anyone whenever she felt like it! I have a friend who had a small dog who got more visitors standing on chairs tables—he was a one person dog who would just get you in the ankle right above your shoe. On the other hand, I have a friend who has a pit rescue who stands at his dish crying when one of her 4 cats scoot under him to eat out of his food dish! Aww...how cute! Poor big thang! :) Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda SauroSent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:07 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: OT: Find the Pit Bull [Interesting and Scary] This is an interesting test that I failed miserably, it's scary to think how dogs are wrongly classified as this breed and are wrongly persecuted.-Take the test and see if you can pick out the pit bull out of this page of pictures. It's amazing how many other breeds look similar. http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html-- BelindaHappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kitties ...http://www.bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candle Light Servicehttp://www.bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com (affordable hosting web design)http://HostDesign4U.com---BMK Designs (non-profit web sites)http://bmk.bemikitties.com __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: OT:FIV false positive? LONG answer!
part of the problem is that we don't know anything about these guys' history BEFORE they come to us--even with young cats, we don't know what diseases/illnesses they've had before, what genetic problems they are carrying around etc. so it's hard to know which is their past and which is the virus... i lost an undiagnosed-til-he-was-in-liver-failure FIV last summer myself--we don't know how old he really was, what his background was etc at tthe sanctuary, tho, we saw a DRAMATIC drop in eye and mouth infections once we started giving them lysine... on one of the FIV lists awhile back, someone talked about how her vet would NOT test her cat for it because the cat, didn't walk like an FIV cat. that's become a huge joke for all of us--every time we see a huge laidback tom, we say, yup, must be FIV--walks just like one! then there's the folks who want to know which cats are the Feline Positive ones one really ditzy woman KEPT saying that, no matter how many times we explained. they had to practically restrain me from pointing out the building where the Canine Positives lived, and the house for the Human Positives, and the barn where the Possum Positives and Raccoon Positives resided... MC
