[Felvtalk] dosage of olive leaf?
Wondering if anyone has administered olive leaf and in what form (pill, crushed, tintcure) and what the dosage was? I'm fascinated by this supplement currently and although I know it's a powerful anti-viral and anti-everything else bad, it has a bitter taste and most kitties abhor it. I'm considering trying it in Whimsy's food, and wondered if anyone has crushed it. My own capsules are liquid filed but I assume it's available in other forms. I would also like to try it on my FIV/HCM boy who eats anything joyously (he'd probably take seconds of that spicy cheesy dandelion cat casserole that's been mentioned) :) Shannon and the acronym kittiesFIV, FeLV, HCM, CRF, etc... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan, You did all you could. Olive knew that. take care, tonya Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Update on Olive: Not good...
Megan, People on this list have very different ideas as to whether or not to let their cats die naturally or to euthanize. You have to do what feels right to you in your own heart. When my cats are suffering I euthanize. And if people 'could' be euthanized it is what I would choose for myself. It's a hard decision, but one you have to make yourself based on your own feelings. tonya Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. > You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her > sake. You will see her suffer. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan, I'm so sad to hear about Olive, but she's at peace and you can be too. Sometimes the hardest part is not knowing. It's easier to know what's going to happen-good or bad. Then we can deal with it-it's the not knowing part that's so hard. Now that this hardest part is over, you can heal and come to terms with the situation. I loved the pictures of Olive-thanks for sharing. She was very beautiful! I no longer have an FeLV kitty, but I still read and post on this site mainly because I want to open a sanctuary someday, and I want to know as much as I can about FeLV and how to treat it. Of course I can't afford to open a sanctuary now, but someday. So, you could stay on this list if you want. Sometimes it's just nice to know you have friends out there. Unfortunately, my posts tend to be off-topic since I'm not treating an FeLV kitty, but I'm still able to learn quite a bit from these guys. Best of luck in school! I certainly miss taking and teaching classes. I might need to sign up for a class for fun to take care of my school-addiction! The workplace is so overrated. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56 PM To: felvtalk Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
This is totally and absolutely incorrect but warned me that it usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops please ask him to do some research on this, I know from experience of my own cat and hundreds of people on the anemia list with cats getting epogen, procrit and the news drug for anemia, starts with an A and I can't think of the name right now, that it is less than 30% of cats that may develope a reaction and then only after an average of 4 or more months of bein on the drug! AND when that happens your just basically back where you started and the epogen doesn't work anymore. As I said Bailey was on it 6 MONTHS with NO problems, sorry to yell but it seems like nobody is listening half the time and a cats life is at stake So . try and possibly save your cat don't try and your cat dies FOR SURE, for me the choice is very easy. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Goodbye, Olive...
Oh megan, My heart breaks for you. Little Olive was indeed a beautiful girl as her siblings. She is out of pain. May your heart heal fast and memories always fill your heart with absolute love. kayte and Crackers ** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan, I'm so sorry. She was a beautiful little girl. It is so unfair. Her siblings are very beautiful too. Make sure you give them extra vitamins and iron just to make sure they stay strong. I think it is very lucky they have tested negative. This means they did not contract this disease through their mom. You have been a great joy to me, just because it is so wonderful to see a person so full of love and compassion. People like the people here on this list do restore my faith in people. There is so much unkindness in this world. Hearing about how all this has ended did break my heart. My eyes get cleaned out every morning here...I know we were all hoping so badly everything would turn out perfect. Your other little guys deserve your attention now. I'm sure this has been awful for them too. You have learned so much here ,as have we all. You have also made a lot of friends. I'm sure you will always be able to find a friend here who will remember you. I really loved your pictures! They were very easy to access too! Thank you Megan. Now it is back to thinking about school. You will have a wonderful life. Sending our love and best wishes always, Glenda and family --- Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was > probably the toughest decision > of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the > first being to decide to let > Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day > yesterday and today with > her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My > roommate and I sat by her > for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to > go, that she'd take one last > looking like she'd already passed. At one point she > looked like she was really > gone, aside from the very slight rising of her > chest, and then she rolled over > and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... > it was heartbreaking. > > This morning I had thought about trying to save her, > but in my heart I feel > that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps > there was a slight chance > I truly could have saved her and reversed the > anemia--but I have a feeling it > wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want > to put Olive through more > suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but > if I had tried to keep > her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my > own selfish reasons. I will > miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out > easy. I am sorry that I > could not give her a longer life, but at least the > one she had was a great > one. She was one of the best kitties ever. > > The vet called me this afternoon asking for an > update, and I told him of my > decision, but that I still didn't know which way to > go about it. He told me > he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so > I told him I might call > back. After discussing it with my roommate and > boyfriend, I called back. It > was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last > meal of tuna before > parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and > I was happy to see her > gobble up quite a bit of it. > > Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on > left, Kudzu on right) > > She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many > good photos of her... > > Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean > to come off as ungrateful > in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, > and so confused. I'm > feeling better now, because I know I did the right > thing, as awful as it was. > > I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may > eventually leave this list, > as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for > some time being... But I'll > stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. > > -Megan > > > > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
I am so sorry Megan. It is heartbreaking. Olive was lucky to have found you to experience your love and care. She was a beautiful kittie. Jane tunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan "When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God" Mosiah 2:17 __ __ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Oh Megan, I am so sorry. I know what you went through. I never had a chance to think about euth for Ki. It happened so fast. He was only 14 mo, and it WAS too young to die. Olive looks just like my little Anklet...that cute little white spot on their jaw. God grant you peace, Dede --- Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was > probably the toughest decision > of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the > first being to decide to let > Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day > yesterday and today with > her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My > roommate and I sat by her > for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to > go, that she'd take one last > looking like she'd already passed. At one point she > looked like she was really > gone, aside from the very slight rising of her > chest, and then she rolled over > and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... > it was heartbreaking. > > This morning I had thought about trying to save her, > but in my heart I feel > that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps > there was a slight chance > I truly could have saved her and reversed the > anemia--but I have a feeling it > wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want > to put Olive through more > suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but > if I had tried to keep > her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my > own selfish reasons. I will > miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out > easy. I am sorry that I > could not give her a longer life, but at least the > one she had was a great > one. She was one of the best kitties ever. > > The vet called me this afternoon asking for an > update, and I told him of my > decision, but that I still didn't know which way to > go about it. He told me > he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so > I told him I might call > back. After discussing it with my roommate and > boyfriend, I called back. It > was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last > meal of tuna before > parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and > I was happy to see her > gobble up quite a bit of it. > > Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG > http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on > left, Kudzu on right) > > She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many > good photos of her... > > Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean > to come off as ungrateful > in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, > and so confused. I'm > feeling better now, because I know I did the right > thing, as awful as it was. > > I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may > eventually leave this list, > as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for > some time being... But I'll > stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. > > -Megan > > > > "When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God" Mosiah 2:17 Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan I am so sorry you lost sweet little Olive.she was adorable.Hugs to you Sherry Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan - Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Ahhh, a beautiful little tuxie girl. Siamese & tuxies, my favorites. :) Tuxies are all dressed up in their party clothes all the time.. But I love them all. Thank you for sharing her photos w/us. Susan J. DuBose >^..^< www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net "As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws." Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: "Megan Heikkinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "felvtalk" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
I'm so sorry, Megan. She was a very lucky cat to have you. And we are all so blessed to have them in our lives for the short time that we do. Please take care of yourself. Susan J. DuBose >^..^< www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net "As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws." Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: "Megan Heikkinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "felvtalk" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Hang around a while. The support here is great and you sound like you really need it. Olive is beautiful and very grateful that you loved her and took good care of her. Let her visit you and calm you.just ask her to drop in one night while you are asleep and receptive to her. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: "Megan Heikkinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "felvtalk" Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56 PM Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Olive
Megan It is always so heartbreaking isn't it...even when in our hearts we know we are doing the right thing...You have been so kind to put her needs ahead of your own,, Time ...and all of us that understand will be your friend Kelly
RE: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan, I'm so sorry Olive had to leave you. Gentle Bridge vibes to her, and hugs to you. Yes, she was way too young. (I like to think that the ones who die young are given another chance. If it's true, I hope Olive finds you again.) And thank you for the pictures -- she was absolutely beautiful. As are Juniper and Kudzu. What a sweet picture of all of them. I think you did the right thing, and I don't blame you for agonizing over the decision. It's in our nature to keep hoping against all odds. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56 PM To: felvtalk Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Goodbye, Olive...
Megan, I'm so sorry. She's beautiful and your love for her has come through all of your message loud and clear. GLOW to light her path and ease your heart. Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito "My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: felvtalk Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:56:23 PM Subject: Goodbye, Olive... Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
RE: Goodbye, Olive...
Olive was a beautiful little cat! The baby picture is great. Remember her like that.
RE: Goodbye, Olive...
I am so sorry..I was watching these threads to see how things went with Olive bec. I am dealing something similar right now. But the fact that you struggled and finally arrived at PTS simply says that you cared enough to make the best decision and sometimes PTS is the best choice. Olive most likely would not have recovered although I know that some folks here have had success dealing with anemia, I never have. Olive at least had the opportunity to be loved and cared for, even for a short time, so many cats and especially, FeLV+ never have that chance. Don't be sad too long. tracy
Goodbye, Olive...
Unfortunately, I had to resort to PTS. It was probably the toughest decision of my life--or at least, the second toughest, the first being to decide to let Olive go in the first place. I spent most of the day yesterday and today with her, and it was miserable watching her fade away. My roommate and I sat by her for hours today. I kept thinking she was about to go, that she'd take one last looking like she'd already passed. At one point she looked like she was really gone, aside from the very slight rising of her chest, and then she rolled over and stretched out, almost as if she were alright... it was heartbreaking. This morning I had thought about trying to save her, but in my heart I feel that it would have done more harm than good. Perhaps there was a slight chance I truly could have saved her and reversed the anemia--but I have a feeling it wouldn't have worked out that way, and I didn't want to put Olive through more suffering. She was too young to succumb to this, but if I had tried to keep her alive, I feel that it would've been out of my own selfish reasons. I will miss her so much, but I am glad that she went out easy. I am sorry that I could not give her a longer life, but at least the one she had was a great one. She was one of the best kitties ever. The vet called me this afternoon asking for an update, and I told him of my decision, but that I still didn't know which way to go about it. He told me he'd be at the clinic for about 20 more minutes, so I told him I might call back. After discussing it with my roommate and boyfriend, I called back. It was terrible. But at least Olive got to enjoy a last meal of tuna before parting this world. She'd not eaten in a while, and I was happy to see her gobble up quite a bit of it. Here are some photos of Olive, if you're interested: http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/olive2.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/babyolive.JPG http://web.utk.edu/~mheikkin/kittens.JPG (Juniper on left, Kudzu on right) She was not very photogenic, so I don't have many good photos of her... Thank you guys for all of your help. I did not mean to come off as ungrateful in one of my previous emails. I was in so much pain, and so confused. I'm feeling better now, because I know I did the right thing, as awful as it was. I wish you and all your kitties good luck. I may eventually leave this list, as I should hopefully no longer have use of it for some time being... But I'll stay on for a bit. Thank you, everyone, so much. -Megan
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Oh, Megan, it is so hard to know what to do! I'm praying (and so are my kitties) for you, the doctors and little Olive, too, to be able to make the right decision for her. Sleeping on it really does work and may somehow clear your head for the decisions you all have to make. Please have a peaceful night and know that we are all dreaming about the best care for little Olive along with you. Love, Tee 'n' the Wildlife "Consciousness is Causal and Physicality is its Manifestation." On Aug 31, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Megan Heikkinen wrote: Dilemma, dilemma... Last night, I was pretty much resigned to letting Olive pass. Not happily resigned, now, for I cried for hours and then couldn't sleep. I had actually typed up a huge email about my reasoning a few minutes ago, but I just got off the phone with my vet, and now I'm once again lost as to what to do. First off, I want to mention that my vet does actually seem to want to help, he just doesn't think much will come of it and doesn't want to give me false hope. Apparently, he wrote down my number wrong last night, which is why I never got a return call. I asked about the reticulocyte count. She had some last week, but it was so low that they considered it nonregenerative anemia. Apparently, she had also received two shots of steroids along with the transfusion. This worries me, because the transfusion started wearing off only after 5 days, when it usually lasts around 10 days. The shots seemed to help within the first couple of days, but then wore off. I also asked if haemobartonella was still a possibility, and he thought it might be. He is going to find out the price of getting a combo of doxy with something else that can be given in a form other than pills. He said he'd be willing to try epogen, but warned me that it usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops. I called the vet school about the price, but had to leave a message. I asked my vet about it, and he reassured me that their given price was indeed $2000-3000. He isn't sure what it entails, though I'm assuming it's everything under the sun, and that kind of scares me. I don't want to subject Olive to a million tests... So, I'm facing this huge problem now. While I would of course love to save Olive, I don't know if it's really going to do any good. And yeah, trying to do something may be better than doing nothing at all. But I'm not sure. I don't want to put her through this stage of slowly dying again, for the third time. I don't know if she'll even be helped unless she can get another blood transfusion, and if I do that at my vet, I'll have to use Juniper as a donor. That scares me. I don't really have time to look elsewhere, though. I wish someone could just give me the answer, but I know that ultimately it is up to me. I wish I was stronger, and not the most indecisive fool on the planet. One of my biggest concerns is that if I do manage to keep Olive alive, my other two babies will continue to be susceptible to this godforsaken virus. = Original Message From Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Megan, I'm sorry that I can't help you! I understand your pain and frustration. It's a horrible place to be in when you don't know which way to go. Yes, ignorance is bliss, but you will benefit from this down the road even though it seems more appealing to be in the dark. You'll be a stronger, better, more compassionate and aware person of your world and your surroundings. I hate going through these situations. I think, "This can't be happening. I just want it all to go away." But, it won't, and although this list has caused you more stress, take peace in knowing that whatever you decide, you based your choices on education--and that is a wonderful thing. Education and learning is power. Can you tell I've been a teacher? If you're thoughts and ideas and ways of thinking are never challenged, then you'll never form your own beliefs for your own reasons. If you make this decision on your own, with your own knowledge that you've gained, you form your own beliefs in the process and reaffirm your morals and life views. This is what makes you who you are and builds your character (to use a cliché). I know none of this helps you right now. Im sorry. I wish I could take your pain away. Hugs and prayers to you and Olive. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:08 PM To: felvtalk; wendy Subject: RE: Update on Olive: Dilemma... I am endlessly conflicted. I think I'll have resigned myself to something, then I'll change my mind, then I decide to do something else, and then I get on here and feel horrible for not doing anything, so I feel like I really need to now. I have to admit, the list has been helpful, but it's also been causing me a lot of stress. If I had never known about this group, then I could've just accepted the vet's word and been better able to cope with Olive's death. Now I feel like I'm little better than a murderer. It's no fault of you all. I just sort of wish I hadn't joined the list sometimes... It's making it so much harder to not do anything. I don't know why you brought up the doxy shot. That was never offered to me as an option... The problem with putting her on any meds is that she is going to have to have another transfusion, and it will probably have to be today. I don't know if my vet called around for blood--I think he might've called a few places--but a lot of the vets around here don't seem to have donors. I called about five other ones, and only one actually had a donor cat, and they didn't even know its type. The vet school has blood, but they won't send it to other vets. And I cannot afford going there. It's getting to the point where I'm going to be too late to help Olive. I want to help her, I really really do, but this is something that I obviously can't handle. I don't have tons of money, and I don't have tons of time because of classes. I'm also inexperienced in matters like this. Nobody is helping me, really, and it's making me have a nervous breakdown. >= Original Message From wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >Hey Megan, Make sure you do research on the doxy shot. The protocol for hemobaronella is 3 weeks of consecutive treatment with pills (not sure of the dosage). How long will a doxy shot last? I would pill her instead, especially if your vet doesn't know much about hemobart. I've never heard of just doing a doxy shot and nothing else. If he is doing the doxy shot in conjuntion with pills, and the treatment will last AT LEAST three weeks, that might be ok. Immunity doesn't always develop with Epogen. If it's hemobart, and the doxy works which it should, is Epogen necessary? Anyone have any ideas on this? I would do research on this as well. The stats for immunity to Epogen I think are 1 in 3 cats, but not sure on this. Still, if Olive needs it and is going to die without RBC's, I think a 33% chance of reaction is not a bad statistic. Why is it up to you to find a blood donor for your kitty? We don't go looking for a donor when we need blood. Can't your vet call around and see if he can find some blood at another vet's? Or can you call around and see if any vet's have a donor cat that they keep around? Many do. I can't say I'm 100% positive on this, but the chance that your other two are still at risk is small because one, they all came from the same litter, and I'm betting Olive got it from momma, and two, even if not, chances are they've already been exposed and I'm pretty
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
When I worked @ the Austin Humane Society, we had blood donors w/our dogs & cats all the time. Susan J. DuBose >^..^< www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net "As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws." Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: "wendy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma... Hey Megan, Make sure you do research on the doxy shot. The protocol for hemobaronella is 3 weeks of consecutive treatment with pills (not sure of the dosage). How long will a doxy shot last? I would pill her instead, especially if your vet doesn't know much about hemobart. I've never heard of just doing a doxy shot and nothing else. If he is doing the doxy shot in conjuntion with pills, and the treatment will last AT LEAST three weeks, that might be ok. Immunity doesn't always develop with Epogen. If it's hemobart, and the doxy works which it should, is Epogen necessary? Anyone have any ideas on this? I would do research on this as well. The stats for immunity to Epogen I think are 1 in 3 cats, but not sure on this. Still, if Olive needs it and is going to die without RBC's, I think a 33% chance of reaction is not a bad statistic. Why is it up to you to find a blood donor for your kitty? We don't go looking for a donor when we need blood. Can't your vet call around and see if he can find some blood at another vet's? Or can you call around and see if any vet's have a donor cat that they keep around? Many do. I can't say I'm 100% positive on this, but the chance that your other two are still at risk is small because one, they all came from the same litter, and I'm betting Olive got it from momma, and two, even if not, chances are they've already been exposed and I'm pretty sure they can't be exposed twice to the same strain. Not enough is known on strains yet. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
When you are not conflicted and at peace you will have the right decision. As long as you are struggling you have not found the answer that is right for you and Olive. Further, if you make the decision to do nothing and it is an informed decision (one I have made and I know it is hard to accept) you are in fact doing something. And you are not a murderer. Give Olive the longest, best quality life you can. The operative word is quality. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: "Megan Heikkinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "felvtalk" ; "wendy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 1:07 PM Subject: RE: Update on Olive: Dilemma... I am endlessly conflicted. I think I'll have resigned myself to something, then I'll change my mind, then I decide to do something else, and then I get on here and feel horrible for not doing anything, so I feel like I really need to now. I have to admit, the list has been helpful, but it's also been causing me a lot of stress. If I had never known about this group, then I could've just accepted the vet's word and been better able to cope with Olive's death. Now I feel like I'm little better than a murderer. It's no fault of you all. I just sort of wish I hadn't joined the list sometimes... It's making it so much harder to not do anything. I don't know why you brought up the doxy shot. That was never offered to me as an option... The problem with putting her on any meds is that she is going to have to have another transfusion, and it will probably have to be today. I don't know if my vet called around for blood--I think he might've called a few places--but a lot of the vets around here don't seem to have donors. I called about five other ones, and only one actually had a donor cat, and they didn't even know its type. The vet school has blood, but they won't send it to other vets. And I cannot afford going there. It's getting to the point where I'm going to be too late to help Olive. I want to help her, I really really do, but this is something that I obviously can't handle. I don't have tons of money, and I don't have tons of time because of classes. I'm also inexperienced in matters like this. Nobody is helping me, really, and it's making me have a nervous breakdown. = Original Message From wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = Hey Megan, Make sure you do research on the doxy shot. The protocol for hemobaronella is 3 weeks of consecutive treatment with pills (not sure of the dosage). How long will a doxy shot last? I would pill her instead, especially if your vet doesn't know much about hemobart. I've never heard of just doing a doxy shot and nothing else. If he is doing the doxy shot in conjuntion with pills, and the treatment will last AT LEAST three weeks, that might be ok. Immunity doesn't always develop with Epogen. If it's hemobart, and the doxy works which it should, is Epogen necessary? Anyone have any ideas on this? I would do research on this as well. The stats for immunity to Epogen I think are 1 in 3 cats, but not sure on this. Still, if Olive needs it and is going to die without RBC's, I think a 33% chance of reaction is not a bad statistic. Why is it up to you to find a blood donor for your kitty? We don't go looking for a donor when we need blood. Can't your vet call around and see if he can find some blood at another vet's? Or can you call around and see if any vet's have a donor cat that they keep around? Many do. I can't say I'm 100% positive on this, but the chance that your other two are still at risk is small because one, they all came from the same litter, and I'm betting Olive got it from momma, and two, even if not, chances are they've already been exposed and I'm pretty sure they can't be exposed twice to the same strain. Not enough is known on strains yet. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ __ __ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Oops guys I was trying to look up spelling of hepatic and hit send. I will complete the email here. That cat was Pumpkin, Junior had already been treated for anemia and lethargy. Pumkinwas hiding symptoms so I was not aware how sick he was. Pumpkin crashed at the vets office and I could not bear to put him though more. Meanwhile I had Junior who although appeared better I was very concerned about Pumpkin dying from anemia. I took Junior back to the vet he had a fever of 106.5. They did fluids an asked to do e felv test. I ok'd he was negative 5 months Oralie. This time positive. I am in panic mode bc I have 10 cats still and like yourself little money to spend. I decided not to euthanize Junior, but to see what I could do and I found this group. Juniors anaemia did get better he was treated with Baytril a strong antibiotic. I cannot remember how long but maybe 10 days to 2 weeks. I had all the cats tested after a lot of work. I had two other positives and both are now dead one euthanized and the other died suddenly at home. He never had any of the usual symptoms. I am not saying this to scare you. I think you can treat for hemobartonella and do the immunoregulin fairly inexpensively. Treat any infections that come along aggressively and get him on immune boosters. This is basically what I did with Junior and it is now almost 1 year form DX. I am not a rich person but this is doable. Good luck, my prayers are with you. Sally On 8/31/07, Sally Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Megan, > > Everyday I get on the computer. I first look to see how Olive is doing. I > so want her to have some good quality time with you. There are others on > this group that may be more experienced with this disease than I, but I > wound up on a very fast learning curve with one cat initially dying from > unknown anemia and probably hemapatic lipodosis > > > On 8/31/07, Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Dilemma, dilemma... > > >
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Hi Megan, Everyday I get on the computer. I first look to see how Olive is doing. I so want her to have some good quality time with you. There are others on this group that may be more experienced with this disease than I, but I wound up on a very fast learning curve with one cat initially dying from unknown anemia and probably hemapatic lipodosis On 8/31/07, Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dilemma, dilemma... > > Last night, I was pretty much resigned to letting Olive pass. Not happily > resigned, now, for I cried for hours and then couldn't sleep. I had > actually > typed up a huge email about my reasoning a few minutes ago, but I just got > off > the phone with my vet, and now I'm once again lost as to what to do. > > First off, I want to mention that my vet does actually seem to want to > help, > he just doesn't think much will come of it and doesn't want to give me > false > hope. Apparently, he wrote down my number wrong last night, which is why I > never got a return call. > > I asked about the reticulocyte count. She had some last week, but it was > so > low that they considered it nonregenerative anemia. Apparently, she had > also > received two shots of steroids along with the transfusion. This worries > me, > because the transfusion started wearing off only after 5 days, when it > usually > lasts around 10 days. The shots seemed to help within the first couple of > days, but then wore off. I also asked if haemobartonella was still a > possibility, and he thought it might be. He is going to find out the price > of > getting a combo of doxy with something else that can be given in a form > other > than pills. He said he'd be willing to try epogen, but warned me that it > usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops. > > I called the vet school about the price, but had to leave a message. I > asked > my vet about it, and he reassured me that their given price was indeed > $2000-3000. He isn't sure what it entails, though I'm assuming it's > everything > under the sun, and that kind of scares me. I don't want to subject Olive > to a > million tests... > > So, I'm facing this huge problem now. While I would of course love to save > Olive, I don't know if it's really going to do any good. And yeah, trying > to > do something may be better than doing nothing at all. But I'm not sure. I > don't want to put her through this stage of slowly dying again, for the > third > time. I don't know if she'll even be helped unless she can get another > blood > transfusion, and if I do that at my vet, I'll have to use Juniper as a > donor. > That scares me. I don't really have time to look elsewhere, though. > > I wish someone could just give me the answer, but I know that ultimately > it is > up to me. I wish I was stronger, and not the most indecisive fool on the > planet. One of my biggest concerns is that if I do manage to keep Olive > alive, > my other two babies will continue to be susceptible to this godforsaken > virus. > > >= Original Message From Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = > >I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell > >you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and > >I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them > >pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be > >pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once > >the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't > >think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is > >just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who > >insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do > >for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would > >never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. > > > >> You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far > for > her sake. You will see her suffer. > > > >-- > > > >Belinda > >happiness is being owned by cats ... > > > >Be-Mi-Kitties > >http://bemikitties.com > > > >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens > >http://adopt.bemikitties.com > > > >FeLV Candlelight Service > >http://bemikitties.com/cls > > > >HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] > >http://HostDesign4U.com > > > > > > > >BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] > >http://bmk.bemikitties.com > > > > -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior, Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Silver, and Spike Visit my BB for some pictures post your as well. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3
RE: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
I am endlessly conflicted. I think I'll have resigned myself to something, then I'll change my mind, then I decide to do something else, and then I get on here and feel horrible for not doing anything, so I feel like I really need to now. I have to admit, the list has been helpful, but it's also been causing me a lot of stress. If I had never known about this group, then I could've just accepted the vet's word and been better able to cope with Olive's death. Now I feel like I'm little better than a murderer. It's no fault of you all. I just sort of wish I hadn't joined the list sometimes... It's making it so much harder to not do anything. I don't know why you brought up the doxy shot. That was never offered to me as an option... The problem with putting her on any meds is that she is going to have to have another transfusion, and it will probably have to be today. I don't know if my vet called around for blood--I think he might've called a few places--but a lot of the vets around here don't seem to have donors. I called about five other ones, and only one actually had a donor cat, and they didn't even know its type. The vet school has blood, but they won't send it to other vets. And I cannot afford going there. It's getting to the point where I'm going to be too late to help Olive. I want to help her, I really really do, but this is something that I obviously can't handle. I don't have tons of money, and I don't have tons of time because of classes. I'm also inexperienced in matters like this. Nobody is helping me, really, and it's making me have a nervous breakdown. >= Original Message From wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >Hey Megan, Make sure you do research on the doxy shot. The protocol for hemobaronella is 3 weeks of consecutive treatment with pills (not sure of the dosage). How long will a doxy shot last? I would pill her instead, especially if your vet doesn't know much about hemobart. I've never heard of just doing a doxy shot and nothing else. If he is doing the doxy shot in conjuntion with pills, and the treatment will last AT LEAST three weeks, that might be ok. Immunity doesn't always develop with Epogen. If it's hemobart, and the doxy works which it should, is Epogen necessary? Anyone have any ideas on this? I would do research on this as well. The stats for immunity to Epogen I think are 1 in 3 cats, but not sure on this. Still, if Olive needs it and is going to die without RBC's, I think a 33% chance of reaction is not a bad statistic. Why is it up to you to find a blood donor for your kitty? We don't go looking for a donor when we need blood. Can't your vet call around and see if he can find some blood at another vet's? Or can you call around and see if any vet's have a donor cat that they keep around? Many do. I can't say I'm 100% positive on this, but the chance that your other two are still at risk is small because one, they all came from the same litter, and I'm betting Olive got it from momma, and two, even if not, chances are they've already been exposed and I'm pretty sure they can't be exposed twice to the same strain. Not enough is known on strains yet. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ __ __ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Megan Let me complicate things a bit more but perhaps it will help too... Anemia isn't just the cat feeling sleepy... It is all the organs dyeing because the blood can't feed them without the red blood cells... If you are going to try and save Olive you have to stick a stake in the ground and go with it now I think the odds are that Olive won't make a full recovery no matter how much you spend and if you only keep her alive to live in a hospital cage away from you... is that what you want ??? Now this is my personal decision... There are so many really wonderful kittens that test positive every day and are still healthy and enjoying life as much as any cat does and they get put to sleep on the spot just because of the test I know you have formed a bond with Olive but I bet she would forgive you for letting her go if she knew that you were saving the life of another kitty that still has time left to enjoy life... In five years I have had 31 FeLV+ cats and have buried 21 of them... And I have cried 21 times but there have been 31 times that I have felt a great joy in knowing I have saved a life very often the same day that I picked the cat up I have spent a lot on vet bills in that time but I think the $3000 estimate would cover my 5 years time with my FeLV kitties Just something to think about Tad Megan Heikkinen wrote: Dilemma, dilemma... Last night, I was pretty much resigned to letting Olive pass. Not happily resigned, now, for I cried for hours and then couldn't sleep. I had actually typed up a huge email about my reasoning a few minutes ago, but I just got off the phone with my vet, and now I'm once again lost as to what to do. First off, I want to mention that my vet does actually seem to want to help, he just doesn't think much will come of it and doesn't want to give me false hope. Apparently, he wrote down my number wrong last night, which is why I never got a return call. I asked about the reticulocyte count. She had some last week, but it was so low that they considered it nonregenerative anemia. Apparently, she had also received two shots of steroids along with the transfusion. This worries me, because the transfusion started wearing off only after 5 days, when it usually lasts around 10 days. The shots seemed to help within the first couple of days, but then wore off. I also asked if haemobartonella was still a possibility, and he thought it might be. He is going to find out the price of getting a combo of doxy with something else that can be given in a form other than pills. He said he'd be willing to try epogen, but warned me that it usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops. I called the vet school about the price, but had to leave a message. I asked my vet about it, and he reassured me that their given price was indeed $2000-3000. He isn't sure what it entails, though I'm assuming it's everything under the sun, and that kind of scares me. I don't want to subject Olive to a million tests... So, I'm facing this huge problem now. While I would of course love to save Olive, I don't know if it's really going to do any good. And yeah, trying to do something may be better than doing nothing at all. But I'm not sure. I don't want to put her through this stage of slowly dying again, for the third time. I don't know if she'll even be helped unless she can get another blood transfusion, and if I do that at my vet, I'll have to use Juniper as a donor. That scares me. I don't really have time to look elsewhere, though. I wish someone could just give me the answer, but I know that ultimately it is up to me. I wish I was stronger, and not the most indecisive fool on the planet. One of my biggest concerns is that if I do manage to keep Olive alive, my other two babies will continue to be susceptible to this godforsaken virus. = Original Message From Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. -- Bel
Re: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Hey Megan, Make sure you do research on the doxy shot. The protocol for hemobaronella is 3 weeks of consecutive treatment with pills (not sure of the dosage). How long will a doxy shot last? I would pill her instead, especially if your vet doesn't know much about hemobart. I've never heard of just doing a doxy shot and nothing else. If he is doing the doxy shot in conjuntion with pills, and the treatment will last AT LEAST three weeks, that might be ok. Immunity doesn't always develop with Epogen. If it's hemobart, and the doxy works which it should, is Epogen necessary? Anyone have any ideas on this? I would do research on this as well. The stats for immunity to Epogen I think are 1 in 3 cats, but not sure on this. Still, if Olive needs it and is going to die without RBC's, I think a 33% chance of reaction is not a bad statistic. Why is it up to you to find a blood donor for your kitty? We don't go looking for a donor when we need blood. Can't your vet call around and see if he can find some blood at another vet's? Or can you call around and see if any vet's have a donor cat that they keep around? Many do. I can't say I'm 100% positive on this, but the chance that your other two are still at risk is small because one, they all came from the same litter, and I'm betting Olive got it from momma, and two, even if not, chances are they've already been exposed and I'm pretty sure they can't be exposed twice to the same strain. Not enough is known on strains yet. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/
RE: Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Megan, I feel for you right now, and I'm sending positive thoughts, prayers, vibes, your way. I hope that you are able to find the right solution for you and Olive. I'm not really sure what to advise you. As for the bill, I'm not sure what your financial situation is, but you could check out the IMOM website where you can apply for funding in you qualify. Here's the site: www.imom.org Keep us posted, breathe, and know that whatever happens, you've been such a wonderful influence in Olive's life. Bless you for all that you do. This can't be an easy time right now. Melissa -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 9:26 AM To: felvtalk Subject: Update on Olive: Dilemma... Dilemma, dilemma... Last night, I was pretty much resigned to letting Olive pass. Not happily resigned, now, for I cried for hours and then couldn't sleep. I had actually typed up a huge email about my reasoning a few minutes ago, but I just got off the phone with my vet, and now I'm once again lost as to what to do. First off, I want to mention that my vet does actually seem to want to help, he just doesn't think much will come of it and doesn't want to give me false hope. Apparently, he wrote down my number wrong last night, which is why I never got a return call. I asked about the reticulocyte count. She had some last week, but it was so low that they considered it nonregenerative anemia. Apparently, she had also received two shots of steroids along with the transfusion. This worries me, because the transfusion started wearing off only after 5 days, when it usually lasts around 10 days. The shots seemed to help within the first couple of days, but then wore off. I also asked if haemobartonella was still a possibility, and he thought it might be. He is going to find out the price of getting a combo of doxy with something else that can be given in a form other than pills. He said he'd be willing to try epogen, but warned me that it usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops. I called the vet school about the price, but had to leave a message. I asked my vet about it, and he reassured me that their given price was indeed $2000-3000. He isn't sure what it entails, though I'm assuming it's everything under the sun, and that kind of scares me. I don't want to subject Olive to a million tests... So, I'm facing this huge problem now. While I would of course love to save Olive, I don't know if it's really going to do any good. And yeah, trying to do something may be better than doing nothing at all. But I'm not sure. I don't want to put her through this stage of slowly dying again, for the third time. I don't know if she'll even be helped unless she can get another blood transfusion, and if I do that at my vet, I'll have to use Juniper as a donor. That scares me. I don't really have time to look elsewhere, though. I wish someone could just give me the answer, but I know that ultimately it is up to me. I wish I was stronger, and not the most indecisive fool on the planet. One of my biggest concerns is that if I do manage to keep Olive alive, my other two babies will continue to be susceptible to this godforsaken virus. >= Original Message From Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell >you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and >I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them >pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be >pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once >the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't >think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is >just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who >insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do >for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would >never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. > >> You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. > >-- > >Belinda >happiness is being owned by cats ... > >Be-Mi-Kitties >http://bemikitties.com > >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens >http://adopt.bemikitties.com > >FeLV Candlelight Service >http://bemikitties.com/cls > >HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] >http://HostDesign4U.com > > > >BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] >http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Update on Olive: Dilemma...
Dilemma, dilemma... Last night, I was pretty much resigned to letting Olive pass. Not happily resigned, now, for I cried for hours and then couldn't sleep. I had actually typed up a huge email about my reasoning a few minutes ago, but I just got off the phone with my vet, and now I'm once again lost as to what to do. First off, I want to mention that my vet does actually seem to want to help, he just doesn't think much will come of it and doesn't want to give me false hope. Apparently, he wrote down my number wrong last night, which is why I never got a return call. I asked about the reticulocyte count. She had some last week, but it was so low that they considered it nonregenerative anemia. Apparently, she had also received two shots of steroids along with the transfusion. This worries me, because the transfusion started wearing off only after 5 days, when it usually lasts around 10 days. The shots seemed to help within the first couple of days, but then wore off. I also asked if haemobartonella was still a possibility, and he thought it might be. He is going to find out the price of getting a combo of doxy with something else that can be given in a form other than pills. He said he'd be willing to try epogen, but warned me that it usually only works a couple times because an immunity develops. I called the vet school about the price, but had to leave a message. I asked my vet about it, and he reassured me that their given price was indeed $2000-3000. He isn't sure what it entails, though I'm assuming it's everything under the sun, and that kind of scares me. I don't want to subject Olive to a million tests... So, I'm facing this huge problem now. While I would of course love to save Olive, I don't know if it's really going to do any good. And yeah, trying to do something may be better than doing nothing at all. But I'm not sure. I don't want to put her through this stage of slowly dying again, for the third time. I don't know if she'll even be helped unless she can get another blood transfusion, and if I do that at my vet, I'll have to use Juniper as a donor. That scares me. I don't really have time to look elsewhere, though. I wish someone could just give me the answer, but I know that ultimately it is up to me. I wish I was stronger, and not the most indecisive fool on the planet. One of my biggest concerns is that if I do manage to keep Olive alive, my other two babies will continue to be susceptible to this godforsaken virus. >= Original Message From Belinda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell >you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and >I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them >pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be >pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once >the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't >think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is >just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who >insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do >for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would >never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. > >> You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. > >-- > >Belinda >happiness is being owned by cats ... > >Be-Mi-Kitties >http://bemikitties.com > >Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens >http://adopt.bemikitties.com > >FeLV Candlelight Service >http://bemikitties.com/cls > >HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] >http://HostDesign4U.com > > > >BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] >http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Olive: Not good...
I do not all animals or people suffer when they are dying and I can tell you for a fact unless any of my furkids are in a great deal of pain and I clearly get from them they want help passing I will let all of them pass on their own, I personally believe most prefer it. It may not be pretty for me but I don't think they suffer as we think they do, once the process gets to a certain point the body goes into shock and I don't think you feel much of anything. Of course I have never died, that is just my sense of the process and I could be as right as anyone who insists helping an animal pass is the best and kindest thing you can do for them, I don't think that is always the case. I personally would never want to be euthanized if that was an option humans had. You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting & web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Update on Olive: Not good...
Dear Megan, Most of us here know exactly the heartwrenching decisions that have to be made regarding money and care for our kitties. I would not have $2000 to see the veterinary school, and I think it's absolutely dastardly of them to charge that type of fee. What does it include, for heaven's sake? Please don't feel that any of us are going to judge you if you don't go into the hole $2k for treatment. And to be perfectly honest, the anemia is a horrible, horrible thing to fight, and most of the time, it does not turn around. I would still put Olive on the doxy, no matter what. But if she doesn't do better with it, and I think it takes a little while to work, then you may have to let her go. I am so sorry. If you want to give her the transfusion and the meds to see what will happen, go for it. But just know it might not work. The one very important thing here is if you can avoid it, and your belief system allows for pts, don't wait to let her die on her own. You will regret seeing it and much worse, allowing it to get that far for her sake. You will see her suffer. The guilt is horrible too. Caroline and I can both attest to that. Go with your heart, Megan. And ask Olive what she wants. Search her eyes. If you need more time and want to do that one last thing that might help her, don't feel selfish for doing it. It will give you a few more days with her if it doesn't work, and you can prepare better for what might lie ahead. This has been so fast for both of you, and again, I'm so sorry. It's heartwrenching, even for us here to know you and Olive are going through this. I am glad your other two have tested negative. That is a blessing. Only sad that Olive's prognosis isn't looking better. Please keep us posted. We're here for you right now. Prayers going out for healing for little Olive. And peace for you. :) Wendy "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has!" ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
RE: Update on Olive: Not good...
I'm so sorry, Megan. It's always hard, and everybody on this list is painfully aware that as much as none of us WANTS money to be a consideration, in fact it VERY often is. I can't give words of wisdom here on what to do about nature vs. euthanasia, but I guess the guideline is, if she's suffering help her along. It's the final kindness we can give them, not to let them suffer. If you don't think she's in pain or distress, and is likely just to fade peacefully, then maybe nature's way is best -- I just wouldn't leave her by herself if possible. You might want to get some Feliway or Rescue Remedy, which has a calming effect. I'm glad the other two are negative. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan Heikkinen Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:42 AM To: felvtalk Subject: Update on Olive: Not good... Fortunately, the other two are negative. Unfortunately, I don't think Olive is going to have much of a chance. The vet told me that her anemia is non-regenerative, and this was confirmed by the vet school. Additionally, she is much slower this morning, and if I don't get her another transfusion today, I don't think she'll last past the night, or at the very latest, through tomorrow. I'm starting to suspect that this is a lost cause. My vet put in an emergency referral to the vet school, but this will cost me $2000. I simply cannot afford that. I have the money at the moment, but I need to save it up. Part of me thinks that it might just be easier to let her go, but the other part of me can't stand to let that happen without giving her a chance. Maybe with meds she could be okay, I don't know. Probably not. But maybe; and it's that slight possibility that makes me want to do what I can for her. Maybe if she is given a fresh start on some new blood, she'll be strong enough that meds will actually help her. I kind of doubt this, but like I said, I want to do what I can for her. I don't want to just give up. Though at the same time, I hate putting her through this She is suffering for the second time within a week, and I feel horrible for it. I wonder if I should just let nature take its course... Going to the vet again and undergoing sedation and another blood transfusion might just wear her out. I know that, ultimately, it's my own choice as to what I choose to do. I could get blood from Juniper, but I hate to put her at risk. I also don't know if it would do any real good for Olive, besides perhaps extending her life for another week. I think I may just let her rest, although I don't know if I'd rather let her go on her own or go the route of euthanasia. I hate to do either, and I'm not sure which would be optimal. I feel so completely lost right now. >= Original Message From glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >Megan, You are a very special young lady. I feel very >glad you are able to get the best help possible from >the great people on this list. I see those wheels >turning in your head. You are going to be successful >in what ever you do in life. >Olive is so lucky to have you fighting for her. >Everyone is going to be wishing the best for your >other two. If by chance they are neg. this is good for >Olive too. There is that small chance she could beat >it. I know this is all very draining on you, but >please focus on your school work so you do not get >behind...Maybe somehow, this could make you even more >functional...sometimes ,under pressure things can kick >in we did not even know we had, to pull us through. > The best to all of you! Glenda >--- Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I guess I figured it was NRA, just because that >> seems most likely to me. If >> she tested positive on the IFA, doesn't that mean >> the infection's spread to >> her bone marrow, and therefore she can't produce new >> RBCs? The vet didn't tell >> me which one it was, but I'll ask tomorrow, if he >> even knows. >> >> Olive did have her blood typed, and she's type A, >> fortunately. That's what you >> were asking, right? The reason her brother Kudzu had >> to give her blood was >> that there was apparently no blood stored up >> anywhere nearby. This now seems >> slightly ridiculous to me, what with the vet school >> and all. Surely there >> would be available blood somewhere in Knoxville or >> the surrounding area. >> Still, I think Kudzu would've had to have been used >> regardless at the time, >> because Olive would probably have died within a few >> hours if not for the >> transfusion. Her
Update on Olive: Not good...
Fortunately, the other two are negative. Unfortunately, I don't think Olive is going to have much of a chance. The vet told me that her anemia is non-regenerative, and this was confirmed by the vet school. Additionally, she is much slower this morning, and if I don't get her another transfusion today, I don't think she'll last past the night, or at the very latest, through tomorrow. I'm starting to suspect that this is a lost cause. My vet put in an emergency referral to the vet school, but this will cost me $2000. I simply cannot afford that. I have the money at the moment, but I need to save it up. Part of me thinks that it might just be easier to let her go, but the other part of me can't stand to let that happen without giving her a chance. Maybe with meds she could be okay, I don't know. Probably not. But maybe; and it's that slight possibility that makes me want to do what I can for her. Maybe if she is given a fresh start on some new blood, she'll be strong enough that meds will actually help her. I kind of doubt this, but like I said, I want to do what I can for her. I don't want to just give up. Though at the same time, I hate putting her through this She is suffering for the second time within a week, and I feel horrible for it. I wonder if I should just let nature take its course... Going to the vet again and undergoing sedation and another blood transfusion might just wear her out. I know that, ultimately, it's my own choice as to what I choose to do. I could get blood from Juniper, but I hate to put her at risk. I also don't know if it would do any real good for Olive, besides perhaps extending her life for another week. I think I may just let her rest, although I don't know if I'd rather let her go on her own or go the route of euthanasia. I hate to do either, and I'm not sure which would be optimal. I feel so completely lost right now. >= Original Message From glenda Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >Megan, You are a very special young lady. I feel very >glad you are able to get the best help possible from >the great people on this list. I see those wheels >turning in your head. You are going to be successful >in what ever you do in life. >Olive is so lucky to have you fighting for her. >Everyone is going to be wishing the best for your >other two. If by chance they are neg. this is good for >Olive too. There is that small chance she could beat >it. I know this is all very draining on you, but >please focus on your school work so you do not get >behind...Maybe somehow, this could make you even more >functional...sometimes ,under pressure things can kick >in we did not even know we had, to pull us through. > The best to all of you! Glenda >--- Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I guess I figured it was NRA, just because that >> seems most likely to me. If >> she tested positive on the IFA, doesn't that mean >> the infection's spread to >> her bone marrow, and therefore she can't produce new >> RBCs? The vet didn't tell >> me which one it was, but I'll ask tomorrow, if he >> even knows. >> >> Olive did have her blood typed, and she's type A, >> fortunately. That's what you >> were asking, right? The reason her brother Kudzu had >> to give her blood was >> that there was apparently no blood stored up >> anywhere nearby. This now seems >> slightly ridiculous to me, what with the vet school >> and all. Surely there >> would be available blood somewhere in Knoxville or >> the surrounding area. >> Still, I think Kudzu would've had to have been used >> regardless at the time, >> because Olive would probably have died within a few >> hours if not for the >> transfusion. Her packed cell count had gotten down >> to 4.5%. >> >> As for how she's doing today She's still up and >> active, behaving pretty >> normally. She does seem slightly slower today, >> unfortunately, and the >> coloration in her pads has gone down. Although, I >> think they may actually look >> a bit better now than they did earlier today. I >> don't know, it may just be my >> imagination. >> >> I left a message with my vet today, but >> unfortunately he did not get to talk >> to the vet school today. He will tomorrow, and we'll >> also be getting my other >> cats' results back. I'm also trying to get in touch >> with another vet who is >> supposedly very passionate and will do whatever he >> can to save an animal. This >> sounds like the type of vet I need, and hopefully I >> will talk to him tomorrow.
RE: To Megan: Re: Olive
Megan, You are a very special young lady. I feel very glad you are able to get the best help possible from the great people on this list. I see those wheels turning in your head. You are going to be successful in what ever you do in life. Olive is so lucky to have you fighting for her. Everyone is going to be wishing the best for your other two. If by chance they are neg. this is good for Olive too. There is that small chance she could beat it. I know this is all very draining on you, but please focus on your school work so you do not get behind...Maybe somehow, this could make you even more functional...sometimes ,under pressure things can kick in we did not even know we had, to pull us through. The best to all of you! Glenda --- Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I guess I figured it was NRA, just because that > seems most likely to me. If > she tested positive on the IFA, doesn't that mean > the infection's spread to > her bone marrow, and therefore she can't produce new > RBCs? The vet didn't tell > me which one it was, but I'll ask tomorrow, if he > even knows. > > Olive did have her blood typed, and she's type A, > fortunately. That's what you > were asking, right? The reason her brother Kudzu had > to give her blood was > that there was apparently no blood stored up > anywhere nearby. This now seems > slightly ridiculous to me, what with the vet school > and all. Surely there > would be available blood somewhere in Knoxville or > the surrounding area. > Still, I think Kudzu would've had to have been used > regardless at the time, > because Olive would probably have died within a few > hours if not for the > transfusion. Her packed cell count had gotten down > to 4.5%. > > As for how she's doing today She's still up and > active, behaving pretty > normally. She does seem slightly slower today, > unfortunately, and the > coloration in her pads has gone down. Although, I > think they may actually look > a bit better now than they did earlier today. I > don't know, it may just be my > imagination. > > I left a message with my vet today, but > unfortunately he did not get to talk > to the vet school today. He will tomorrow, and we'll > also be getting my other > cats' results back. I'm also trying to get in touch > with another vet who is > supposedly very passionate and will do whatever he > can to save an animal. This > sounds like the type of vet I need, and hopefully I > will talk to him tomorrow. > We'll see. > > Please keep Olive in your thoughts. Hopefully she > will be alright for the next > few days, so we can prepare to give her another > blood transfusion if need be. > It seems like we might have to just to get her cell > count back up, and then we > can start giving her meds. I am definitely going to > push for the > haemobartonella meds, and I will ask about > interferon, too. > > Thank you all for your help so far. You give me hope > when I'm feeling more > lost than ever. Keep your fingers crossed that my > other two turn out to be > negative. > > -Megan > > >= Original Message From wendy > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = > >Hey Megan, > > How are you doing tonight? And how is Olive? Did > you find anything else out > today? > > As far as what type of anemia it is, Belinda is > right that it probably needs > to be typed. But, no matter what, get her on that > doxy asap if you can. > Hemobart is treatable and it could very easily be > that. I'm not sure why you > think it's non-regenerative anemia. Did the vet > tell you that? As far as I > know, you don't have to do a bone aspirate to find > out. My vet looked at > whether or not Cricket had reticulocytes in his > blood when he was anemic. If > there are reticulocytes, then the body is trying to > make rbc's, and it is > regenerative anemia. Cricket had regenerative, but > the vet said something > about autohemolytic anemia, which means the body is > killing off the blood > cells as they are made. Whether or not that was > from hemobart, I'll never > know. When Cricket was sick, the vet never > mentioned doxycycline or hemobart > (or maybe the did the test and said he was > negative), so I didn't know about > the doxy. Sometimes I wonder if Cricket would still > be > > here had he been on doxy. I didn't learn about > hemobart until it was too > late. > > If your vet seems like he's willing to learn, and > you like him, then it's ok > to stay with him. BUT, make sure you still get > Olive seen
RE: To Megan: Re: Olive
I guess I figured it was NRA, just because that seems most likely to me. If she tested positive on the IFA, doesn't that mean the infection's spread to her bone marrow, and therefore she can't produce new RBCs? The vet didn't tell me which one it was, but I'll ask tomorrow, if he even knows. Olive did have her blood typed, and she's type A, fortunately. That's what you were asking, right? The reason her brother Kudzu had to give her blood was that there was apparently no blood stored up anywhere nearby. This now seems slightly ridiculous to me, what with the vet school and all. Surely there would be available blood somewhere in Knoxville or the surrounding area. Still, I think Kudzu would've had to have been used regardless at the time, because Olive would probably have died within a few hours if not for the transfusion. Her packed cell count had gotten down to 4.5%. As for how she's doing today She's still up and active, behaving pretty normally. She does seem slightly slower today, unfortunately, and the coloration in her pads has gone down. Although, I think they may actually look a bit better now than they did earlier today. I don't know, it may just be my imagination. I left a message with my vet today, but unfortunately he did not get to talk to the vet school today. He will tomorrow, and we'll also be getting my other cats' results back. I'm also trying to get in touch with another vet who is supposedly very passionate and will do whatever he can to save an animal. This sounds like the type of vet I need, and hopefully I will talk to him tomorrow. We'll see. Please keep Olive in your thoughts. Hopefully she will be alright for the next few days, so we can prepare to give her another blood transfusion if need be. It seems like we might have to just to get her cell count back up, and then we can start giving her meds. I am definitely going to push for the haemobartonella meds, and I will ask about interferon, too. Thank you all for your help so far. You give me hope when I'm feeling more lost than ever. Keep your fingers crossed that my other two turn out to be negative. -Megan >= Original Message From wendy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> = >Hey Megan, How are you doing tonight? And how is Olive? Did you find anything else out today? As far as what type of anemia it is, Belinda is right that it probably needs to be typed. But, no matter what, get her on that doxy asap if you can. Hemobart is treatable and it could very easily be that. I'm not sure why you think it's non-regenerative anemia. Did the vet tell you that? As far as I know, you don't have to do a bone aspirate to find out. My vet looked at whether or not Cricket had reticulocytes in his blood when he was anemic. If there are reticulocytes, then the body is trying to make rbc's, and it is regenerative anemia. Cricket had regenerative, but the vet said something about autohemolytic anemia, which means the body is killing off the blood cells as they are made. Whether or not that was from hemobart, I'll never know. When Cricket was sick, the vet never mentioned doxycycline or hemobart (or maybe the did the test and said he was negative), so I didn't know about the doxy. Sometimes I wonder if Cricket would still be > here had he been on doxy. I didn't learn about hemobart until it was too late. If your vet seems like he's willing to learn, and you like him, then it's ok to stay with him. BUT, make sure you still get Olive seen at the university as soon as possible. Olive might be a learning experience for your current vet and maybe his experience with her will help save someone else's beloved kitty. However, if you feel he feels Olive's a lost cause, run. Find another vet. You need someone who will fight for her. You can also show him or share with him the info. you are learning here. It might also help. You don't have to get the the next transfusion from one of your cats, however you will probably have to have Olive blood typed for the next one. I think you can only give cats one untyped blood transfusion. Not sure on that though. Please keep us posted Megan, and prayers going out for little Olive and her siblings. :) Wendy __ __ Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
To Megan: Re: Olive
Hey Megan, How are you doing tonight? And how is Olive? Did you find anything else out today? As far as what type of anemia it is, Belinda is right that it probably needs to be typed. But, no matter what, get her on that doxy asap if you can. Hemobart is treatable and it could very easily be that. I'm not sure why you think it's non-regenerative anemia. Did the vet tell you that? As far as I know, you don't have to do a bone aspirate to find out. My vet looked at whether or not Cricket had reticulocytes in his blood when he was anemic. If there are reticulocytes, then the body is trying to make rbc's, and it is regenerative anemia. Cricket had regenerative, but the vet said something about autohemolytic anemia, which means the body is killing off the blood cells as they are made. Whether or not that was from hemobart, I'll never know. When Cricket was sick, the vet never mentioned doxycycline or hemobart (or maybe the did the test and said he was negative), so I didn't know about the doxy. Sometimes I wonder if Cricket would still be here had he been on doxy. I didn't learn about hemobart until it was too late. If your vet seems like he's willing to learn, and you like him, then it's ok to stay with him. BUT, make sure you still get Olive seen at the university as soon as possible. Olive might be a learning experience for your current vet and maybe his experience with her will help save someone else's beloved kitty. However, if you feel he feels Olive's a lost cause, run. Find another vet. You need someone who will fight for her. You can also show him or share with him the info. you are learning here. It might also help. You don't have to get the the next transfusion from one of your cats, however you will probably have to have Olive blood typed for the next one. I think you can only give cats one untyped blood transfusion. Not sure on that though. Please keep us posted Megan, and prayers going out for little Olive and her siblings. :) Wendy Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
RE: Treatment for Nonregenerative Anemia (Olive)
I decided not to do a bone marrow aspirate on Monkee to determine the type (non-regenerative, etc.) of anemia he had and if the anemia was being caused by the FelV virus becoming activated, or from cancer. My vet led me to believe that if we could determine the anemia was from cancer (only via a bone marrow aspirate), then we could try more chemo. However, chemo itself can cause anemia and also cause the FelV virus to become active because of the stress and immune suppression (killing of white blood cells). But Monkee had a tumor so it was possible the cancer came up because of FelV becoming active first. And it was such a chicken or the egg debate that I felt it didn't even matter anymore. All I knew was he had anemia and it was bad and that any further procedures that would stress him, like a bone marrow aspirate, would not be good. Plus, he didn't even have enough RBCs to be put under anesthesia for the aspirate to even be performed (without first having a blood transfusion). We opted for no more procedures, no more chemo, and just a blood transfusion to give us two more weeks with him and that is what happened. I took him to a Holistic vet for treatment for those two weeks and he did really well for about 10 days- I really feel her treatments helped extend the transfusion just a little bit and definitely eased his stress. You may want to consider looking into a Holistic vet. The great thing is that their treatments work in conjunction with your vet-- it's not one or the other. As for blood transfusions, it doesn't have to come from one of your other cats. Sometimes they use real cat blood, but they also have a synthetic type of blood they can use that works the same. I am not sure which one Monkee got. But for him it was merely a stop gap procedure...it delayed the inevitable so I had more time with him. You have to keep that in mind. If it can be determined that Olive is not making her own RBCs, then you will be faced with the same dilemma of "how long can we keep this up?" as I was. Good luck. -Caroline From: Megan Heikkinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Treatment for Nonregenerative Anemia (Olive)Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:26:38 -0400>I figured making a separate thread for this might be a good idea, because>right now this seems to be Olive's biggest threat. I will hopefully be talking>to someone at the university's vet school either today or tomorrow, but>getting everyone's suggestions here is really helpful.>>I guess my biggest concern is whether or not there really is any way to help>treat NRA. You all have given me many options for FeLV in general, but the>anemia is what I'm really worried about.>>Thanks,>Megan>>> Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win!
Treatment for Nonregenerative Anemia (Olive)
I figured making a separate thread for this might be a good idea, because right now this seems to be Olive's biggest threat. I will hopefully be talking to someone at the university's vet school either today or tomorrow, but getting everyone's suggestions here is really helpful. I guess my biggest concern is whether or not there really is any way to help treat NRA. You all have given me many options for FeLV in general, but the anemia is what I'm really worried about. Thanks, Megan
Re: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
Hideyo, I am so sorry to hear about Olive. This is not your fault. With as many cats as you deal with, and the fact that you take in ferals and strays who are not healthy to begin with.. These things cause your losses. My oldest cat ever was only 13 or 14. My cats have various health problems. I think it's because they are strays who had no care themselves, or their mothers. These things take their toll. Stop blaming yourself. You are not responsible for a cat coming down with fip. No way! t Hideyo Yamamoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry my little feral kitty, Olive now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over again. Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP -- then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long time.. she is just very sweet.. I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl... sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will help not to have seizure anymore.. Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI had an opportunity to have met them.. but had no right to bring my house which is considered to be a very high risk for FIP .. they did not ask for that... Everyone, please pray and send a good positive healinng energy to my little Olive.. I started on FOI tonight and am hoping that it will make her feel better - again I have not given up regardlesss of whatever the disease might be.. I still belive in power of intensions and miracle if that's what it takes.. I juar have to be calm and sending her a good thought.. again thank you very much for all your support and I am sorry for asking for more prayers before I had a chance to thank you for all your kind words you have sent to me and dharma.. Hideyo
RE: My baby, Olive has become free now --my 4th loss to FIP..
Peggy, thank you so much for your kindness -- now I am crying again -- I will try to focus on the fact that they are at a better place now and free from all the pains..it's just so hard.. I miss them so much.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peggy AnkneySent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 5:29 PMTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: My baby, Olive has become free now --my 4th loss to FIP.. Dear Hideyo, I am so, so sorry for all the pain you are going thorough with your recent losses. You know rationally that you have done everything you could to give your kitties a few months or perhaps years of a happy and secure and loved life, so please don’t let yourself feel guilty for any decision you’ve made. Your intentions were and are (as are all of ours) to do whatever we can for the animals we so dearly love. You have given all four of them food, shelter, warmth, and care. Be gentle with yourself, and don’t second-guess your decision to help little Olive to the bridge. Hold on to the images you have of her sweetly sleeping the way cats do - with her little paws tucked in underneath her and the contented look on her face. She was lucky to have had you for the short time she was here. -Peggy
RE: My baby, Olive has become free now --my 4th loss to FIP..
Dear Hideyo, I am so, so sorry for all the pain you are going thorough with your recent losses. You know rationally that you have done everything you could to give your kitties a few months or perhaps years of a happy and secure and loved life, so please don’t let yourself feel guilty for any decision you’ve made. Your intentions were and are (as are all of ours) to do whatever we can for the animals we so dearly love. You have given all four of them food, shelter, warmth, and care. Be gentle with yourself, and don’t second-guess your decision to help little Olive to the bridge. Hold on to the images you have of her sweetly sleeping the way cats do - with her little paws tucked in underneath her and the contented look on her face. She was lucky to have had you for the short time she was here. -Peggy
RE: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive hasFIP (?)
I'm sorry to hear about your kitties. i'm pretty new to this group... i pretty much just read everything and take everything in... with all the love you can give olive i'm sure she will have a great life. it may be short like most of our kitties, but at least she was loved.. if she would have continued to be fural she wouldnt have been loved or cared for... i'm very lucky bacardi my felv+ baby is doing well, but that can change at any time... please dont give up on having cats... there are so many that need homes, and by everything i've read from u the past couple months u sound like a wonderful mom... maybe you'll just need a little time. thank-you for caring for so many kitties in need... i wish more people were as caring as you. i work for a vet, and some owners dont care about their animals. at least you will do anything u can!!! abby From: "Hideyo Yamamoto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: , <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"CRF Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive hasFIP (?) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 23:46:44 -0700 Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry my little feral kitty, Olive now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over again. Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP -- then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long time.. she is just very sweet.. I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl... sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will help not to have seizure anymore.. Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI had an opportunity to have met them.. but had no right to bring my house which is considered to be a very high risk for FIP .. they did not ask for that... Everyone, please pray and send a good positive healinng energy to my little Olive.. I started on FOI tonight and am hoping that it will make her feel better - again I have not given up regardlesss of whatever the disease might be.. I still belive in power of intensions and miracle if that's what it takes.. I juar have to be calm and sending her a good thought.. again thank you very much for all your support and I am sorry for asking for more prayers before I had a chance to thank you for all your kind words you have sent to me and dharma.. Hideyo __
RE: My baby, Olive has become free now --my 4th loss to FIP..
I am so stupid and out of it,,, I can't even spell my cat's name --- I meant "Olive" -- I am sorry Olive I am just so scattered.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hideyo YamamotoSent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 12:09 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Oliver has become free now --my 4th loss to FIP.. I had to let Olive free from her body this morning -- she seemed to be in so much pain from the emergency clinic trip, since last night, she has had seizures almost every 15 minu or so last nigth even after valium and I couldn't let her continue that way.. I usually have a very difficult time to help assist them cross any of my kitties, because I can't let go of them. and I never know what they want for sure.. but this time,, it was very difficult to see Olive go through the seizures so many times as she seemed to be in so mcuh pain..it seems very selfish of me to let her be how she was.. I had someone come over and assisted her cross a little while ago-- of course, I have so much gult now and don't know what to do with the feeling.. though logically, I could convince myself that I did a right thing.. i just don't feel right and I have a regret already -- I am feeling numb right now at the same time, I am feeling awful about what i did.. I was talking to dr. Addie from University of glagslow who has done research for FIP for the past two decades, and she was explaining to me how FIP is the disease that we human create by domesticating our kitties and keeping them indoor -- please don't get me wrong.. she was not suggesting that keeping cats indoor was a bad thing.. but there is a price to pay when you have multiple of animals in the house.. as feces from litter box is the most common way to get the corona virus and as they shed from feces -- and out in wild, FIP is much less common due to the fact that they don't use litter boxes obviously... and that's what I meant when I produced the disease and not separating them in a small group.. There are a few people on FIP support list who have lost several of their kitties to FIP --- it can be sproadic and usually is.. but sometimes, it's epidemic.. and when it happens it's very scary..as you already know.. I am so afraid thinking what's now, what's next -- as I am trying not to create a problem before it even happens.. but you just have to understand.. my Oliver was just fine (or at least I thought which was my very bad) until last night.. it seemed progressed so quickly and never seen anything like it... Everyone, prlease pray that my olive is at peace and feel free and my Dharma, Naomi and Peter are greeting at her at the rainbow bridge..
RE: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
Hideyo -- MC is so right on this. Please, if you must blame something, blame these kitties' gene pool that made them susceptible to the mutation of the corona virus, not yourself. I'm sorry the outcome wasn't good for them, but if they hadn't been with you, sooner or later something in the stress of living in the wild would have triggered the FIP and they would have gotten sick and died anyway, with no one to help them and to mourn them. I know that Olive will have the most loving care imaginable, no matter what her outcome. Here are vibes that she shakes it off. And extra strength vibes to you, dear, in this very hard time. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of TenHouseCats Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 9:05 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?) hideyo, dearest, please stop beating yourself up.
Re: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
Hideyo, I would just like to second what others have said. I would trust you with any one of my cats - and that is saying quite a lot. The love you have given these kitties is the greatest gift and you made their lives better. Sending love and healing to you and to Olive. elizabeth In a message dated 11/5/2006 9:05:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: hideyo, dearest,please stop beating yourself up.FIP may be stress-ACTIVATED, it is not stress-created. if all thesekitties came from the same colony, it's far more likely that you'redealing with the genetic aspect of the condition. as others have said,FIP is a MUTATED form of the corona virus and is not, in and ofitself, an infectious disease. think about it--if FIP itself weretransmissible, there would BE no sanctuaries or no-kill sheltersaround--all the cats would have gotten FIP and gone to the bridge. wehad 600 cats at the sanctuary, and you can just bet that most if notall of those cats would have shown a high corona titre (they say thatup to 80% or something of HUMANS would show a high titre, too, iftesting was regular)--and tho we lost kitties to FIP, it was avery small percentage--and often it WAS within family groups.we just never know when we bring in a cat what its genetic history is,and the more cats we have, the more likely we are to have some whowill have the predisposition for the mutated virus. it's terrible thatyou have had to go through this, but please don't keep blamingyourself.MCOn 11/5/06, Hideyo Yamamoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>> Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had> a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special> Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry my little feral kitty, Olive> now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over> again.>> Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the> same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did> not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her> more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had> lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she> let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely> dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and> asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP --> then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it> was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly> what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and> alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver> (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she> thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest> euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I> can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I> brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there> wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long> time.. she is just very sweet..>>> I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very> well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl...> sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not> want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let> her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will> help not to have seizure anymore..>> Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this> disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and> all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties> and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the> kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment> has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I> first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired> what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to> agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I> had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of> all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them> home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI> had an opportu
Re: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
hideyo, dearest, please stop beating yourself up. FIP may be stress-ACTIVATED, it is not stress-created. if all these kitties came from the same colony, it's far more likely that you're dealing with the genetic aspect of the condition. as others have said, FIP is a MUTATED form of the corona virus and is not, in and of itself, an infectious disease. think about it--if FIP itself were transmissible, there would BE no sanctuaries or no-kill shelters around--all the cats would have gotten FIP and gone to the bridge. we had 600 cats at the sanctuary, and you can just bet that most if not all of those cats would have shown a high corona titre (they say that up to 80% or something of HUMANS would show a high titre, too, if testing was regular)--and tho we lost kitties to FIP, it was a very small percentage--and often it WAS within family groups. we just never know when we bring in a cat what its genetic history is, and the more cats we have, the more likely we are to have some who will have the predisposition for the mutated virus. it's terrible that you have had to go through this, but please don't keep blaming yourself. MC On 11/5/06, Hideyo Yamamoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry.... my little feral kitty, Olive now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over again. Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP -- then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long time.. she is just very sweet.. I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl... sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will help not to have seizure anymore.. Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI had an opportunity to have met them.. but had no right to bring my house which is considered to be a very high risk for FIP .. they did not ask for that... Everyone, please pray and send a good positive healinng energy to my little Olive.. I started on FOI tonight and am hoping that it will make her feel better - again I have not given up regardlesss of whatever the disease might be.. I still belive in power of intensions and miracle if that's what it takes.. I juar have to be calm and sending her a good thought.. again thank you very much for all your support and I am sorry for asking for more prayers before I had a chance to thank you for all your kind words you have sent to me and dharma.. Hideyo -- Spay & Neuter Your N
Re: SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
Dear Hideyo You are a kind hearted sensitive caring person. I have not been on this group long to know the full story about how the ferals came to be in your care. I do know you have loved and cared for them which is something they would not have in the wild. I don't know the exact stats but a feral cats lifespan is very short indeed. Not usually a good outcome. Hindsight is always better than foresight, please do not blame yourself.. You are in no way to responsible for this outcome. YOU ARE A WONDERFUL PERSON!!! Many years ago I had a cat who I was told died of something called peritonitis. We lived on a farm at that time he was a big tabby and white tom cat. I was away at college when all this transpired. MY parents took him to the vet who said there really wasn't much he could do this was some 30 years ago. He put the cat on antibiotics and the cat ate but I understand continued to lose weight. My parents were waiting for me to come home before doing anything with him. Unfortunately as cats will do he went off and I never saw him again. The more we are exposed to the felines we love the more likely we may encounter these problems. Am i going to quit having cats because of my two FELV positive babies, NO WAY. Hugs Sally At 11:46 PM 11/4/2006 -0700, you wrote: Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry my little feral kitty, Olive now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over again. Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP -- then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long time.. she is just very sweet.. I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl... sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will help not to have seizure anymore.. Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI had an opportunity to have met them.. but had no right to bring my house which is considered to be a very high risk for FIP .. they did not ask for that... Everyone, please pray and send a good positive healinng energy to my little Olive.. I started on FOI tonight and am hoping that it will make her feel better - again I have not given up regardlesss of whatever the disease might be.. I still belive in power of intensions and miracle if that's what it takes.. I juar have to be calm and sending her a good thought.. again thank you very much for all your support and I am sorry for asking for
SOS - you are not going to believe this - now my little Olive has FIP (?)
Hi, everyone I just cremated my little Dharma this morning --- before I had a chance to sit down and think of all the memories of my little special Dharma ---and before I had a chance to cry my little feral kitty, Olive now has FIP... and I just found it out..and I am just devasted all over again. Olive is my feral kitty who is now about a year old and who came from the same colony as Dharma and Naomi. Since she is a feral kitty, I really did not know how sick she was and it's my fault not paying attention to her more..she had a seizure tonght -- and I held her and noticed that she had lost lots of weight and very dehydrated.. and she must be very weak as she let me hold her.. I gave her 250 ml of subQ fluid as she was extremely dehydrated and hot -- and I ran to the emergency clinic after that..and asked them to run a blood work---I was so praying that it's not FIP -- then, I waited and finally talk to the doctor regarding blood work and it was very similar to Peter's blood work --the doctor did not know exactly what it was-- she said either cancer or FIP...her gloublin is elevated and alubmin is decreased, her total bilrbrin is elevated.. and mos of the liver (ALT and AST) were very elevated. .she was not anemic (PCV=31) -- she thought I really coudln't treat her since she was feral and suggest euthanaisa.. but I said no.. I want to bring her home and try everything I can.. she just was walking around and eating until earlier today...so I brought her home as I knew she would be better off coming home as there wasnt' anything they could do for her specifically. I held her for a long time.. she is just very sweet.. I did not know ir I coule syringe feed her,, but she let me and she ate very well.. she is just very sweet little gir.. she is black/white taxido girl... sthe bad new is since then, she had three more seizures.. I really did not want to give her valium as she already has liver issue.. but I coudln't let her keep having a seizure so I gave a little bit of valium to see if it will help not to have seizure anymore.. Everyone.. I am now convinced that I am the one who is producing this disease fo rmy kitties -- I know that FIP is stress induced disease.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP were not corona virus posivite kitties and the become exposed due to all my others who have been.. and all of the kitties who have had FIP have been here less than year.. and my envrinment has caused them to die -- Dr. Ishidaalso mentioned something similar when I first explained how many kitties I have had FIP -- as much as he admired what I do. .he thought that I was causing FIP among my cats.. and I have to agree -- it's too much of price to pay and they did not deserve to die.. I had a good intension but it was not good enough and I am very responsible of all the deaths so I really am not any kind of hero.. if I did not bring them home,, they would not have gotten FIP ...I don't regret that the fact thatI had an opportunity to have met them.. but had no right to bring my house which is considered to be a very high risk for FIP .. they did not ask for that... Everyone, please pray and send a good positive healinng energy to my little Olive.. I started on FOI tonight and am hoping that it will make her feel better - again I have not given up regardlesss of whatever the disease might be.. I still belive in power of intensions and miracle if that's what it takes.. I juar have to be calm and sending her a good thought.. again thank you very much for all your support and I am sorry for asking for more prayers before I had a chance to thank you for all your kind words you have sent to me and dharma.. Hideyo
