Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Belinda, I'm so sorry that Fred isn't doing so well with eating. That's so stressful (for us). I will be interested to read what the vet list posts about potassium. :) Wendy --- Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wendy, Sorry for your troubles with Julie. I am almost positive my vet told me when I was in there 2 days ago that when giving oral potassium any they don't need is discarded through their urine which I had never heard before. I posted this question on the vet list I'm on but haven't gotten a reply yet, I'll let you know soon as I do. I do know my other vet told me not to worry about the other cats eating Fred's food with the potassium in it, so who knows. I was worried about that too. Fred is not doing good today, he isn't eating at all and he vomited about 4 hours after he got his meds this morning. He hasn't eaten anything since. I just gave him some pepcid, I have to give him his clavamox at 9PM so I guess I'll have to syringe feed him enough to coat his tummy, we have to get rid of that infection. Looks like as soon as we can, we'll be doing another tube since Fred isn't cooperating. His kidney values are all almost back to normal, I will not sit by and let him slowly starve to death or worse yet get hepatic lipidosis. It's his choice, eat on his own or get a tube so I won't feel bad about it. I'm will assist feed but I've never been good at it so in the 2 or 3 weeks we have to wait before we can do another tube he'll probably be in horrible shape again, that's what upsets me so. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396546091
To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Hey Belinda, I called my vet yesterday to ask if he thought that I should start adding potassium to Julie's subQ fluids. She is hyperT, and gets Tapazole/Meth. compounded 2x per day. Her back legs are pretty weak, and after reading about Fred's weak back legs, and that you are supplementing him with potassium, I called to check with my vet. He said not to do that because potassium overdoses are serious and happen often, and that we'd have to take her blood all the time to check the potassium levels. I don't think he looked at her potassium numbers though. My questions are these: 1) When I go home tonight to check her numbers off the last bloodwork she had, which number am I looking for? Is potassium pk? 2) If her numbers are low, do you think it would be wise for me to supplement some considering the weakness in her hind legs? I do agree that I don't want to take her blood more than we already are, about every four months. She's so old and small. 3) If I do supplement, where do I get potassium and how much should I do? Thanks for your advice, Julie and I really appreciate it, :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Hi Wendy, Sorry for your troubles with Julie. I am almost positive my vet told me when I was in there 2 days ago that when giving oral potassium any they don't need is discarded through their urine which I had never heard before. I posted this question on the vet list I'm on but haven't gotten a reply yet, I'll let you know soon as I do. I do know my other vet told me not to worry about the other cats eating Fred's food with the potassium in it, so who knows. I was worried about that too. Fred is not doing good today, he isn't eating at all and he vomited about 4 hours after he got his meds this morning. He hasn't eaten anything since. I just gave him some pepcid, I have to give him his clavamox at 9PM so I guess I'll have to syringe feed him enough to coat his tummy, we have to get rid of that infection. Looks like as soon as we can, we'll be doing another tube since Fred isn't cooperating. His kidney values are all almost back to normal, I will not sit by and let him slowly starve to death or worse yet get hepatic lipidosis. It's his choice, eat on his own or get a tube so I won't feel bad about it. I'm will assist feed but I've never been good at it so in the 2 or 3 weeks we have to wait before we can do another tube he'll probably be in horrible shape again, that's what upsets me so. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Belinda: Re: Fred Update
Sorry Wendy should have read the whole email before I sent. I get the potassium gluconate at the local pharmacy, it's over the counter Nature Made brand and for 100, 550mg tablets it is $4.00 a bottle. Fred weighted 8lbs 9ozs when he started getting it and he was getting 1 and 1/4 tablet twice a day. His potassium got to the normal range 4.5, it was 3.8 when we started, while this is the low end of normal, it is too low for a CRF cat, they should be in the mid 4 range. After he was at 4.5, I lowered his dose to 3/4 tablet twice a day and he dropped back down to 3.8 again so for the last week or so he's been getting 1 and 1/2 tablet twice a day to try and get him up again, haven't done blood work yet to see where we are. * He is a page where it helps you figure what you need as far as a dose:* http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2r6qt/supplies/potassium.htm#PotassiumGluconate *Lots of info here, high phosphorus can also cause back end weakness:* http://www.felinecrf.org/symptoms.htm#minerals * More info:* http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#low_potassium That whole website is very informational. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: To Wendy: Re: Fred Update
Wendy here is the reply I got about the potassium supplements from one of the vets on the vet list I'm on: They potentially will as long as there is enough kidney function to do so. While most cats with CRF waste potassium, those nearing end stage or with acute on chronic disease may not be able to get rid of excess potassium very well. It is probably hard to over do it with oral potassium, but proper monitoring should be done in order to assess therapy. My questions as posted: Hi Vets, I have a question, I am giving Fred potassium supplements, he is CRF and his potassium was low. I'm positive I heard my vet say you can't give too much orally because they will pee out what they don't need. I know this is the case with vitamin B but had not heard that about potassium, is that true, they will pee out what they don't need? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
Hi Belinda Sending positive vibes to you and Fred. My vet told me how bad the Clindamycin tasted so I expected a struggle. Junior doesn't even flinch when he gets it. He is pretty good about taking everything. I give him something like sour cream after the vile tasting stuff to cleanse his palette. Hugs Sally and Junior On 3/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, First I want to thank everyone for the prayers and positive energy ... well my boy Fred has taken the decision out of my hands for the moment ... he pulled his tube out today!! I have an appointment at 8:40AM to see if we can put another one in but I already know what they are going to tell me because the infection isn't cleared up yet. So I'm pretty sure we'll have to wait 2 or 3 weeks for it to heal up completely, this will be hell because Fred is not eating enough and now I will have a difficult time giving him his meds that he really needs on top of that ... he absolutely must have his blood pressure meds so it will be a tussle every morning. He also needs his potassium because he was getting weak in the back end because his potassium was low. All his kidney values are almost normal again and now they will get out of wack again. All the weight he's put back on will disappear ... I'm so upset. Fluids are no problem but even getting him to take his antibiotic which I didn't give him this evening, it's clindamicin, absolutely horrible tasting, it's one thing to give it to him through his tube but there is NO way I will make him take that. I will get clavamox again tomorrow in pill form. I can get the pills in him, it's just getting him to drink or eat a little something after to make sure they go down and don't sit in his throat, that is the problem. I'm so disgusted and upset with this whole ordeal, it's been traumatic and problematic from the start, I really feel once he got the infection they just didn't give him meds long enough for it to completely clear up and it's been a nightmare since. They don't seem to realize he is older, with existing health problems and needs meds longer to get over any additional health issues. I will have the fishmox in a few days and he is going to get them for 3 or 4 weeks or longer, we're not doing this any longer, he has been miserable for too long!! Well I'll give you an update tomorrow, gotta go pick the food up. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
Obviously I am a big believer in AC whether you do it, an amateur does it or you hire a pro. Try talking to Fred and explaining why he needs the meds and ask what you can do to make it easier. The Royal Princess Kitty Katt told a group of acs that she would take some thyroid meds if they were in whipped cream (I didn't even know she knew what it was). She did---for a while. Also, try tasting some of the meds yourself. If they are particularly awful put them very far back in the mouth or try coating them with something like cheese so they don't melt on him. Just ideas. Take what you think will help and leave the rest. But please accept all the blessings for you, Fred and your family. You are doing what is best for Fred in his entire being. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: Fred Update Hi All, I was going to have them put another tube in but I think they would have to wait 2 or 3 weeks because his infection isn't gone yet and they said we would have to wait for that to completely heal. But I have already decided to wait on the tube because it is so obvious that Fred is a different cat without it. He slept on my pillow for the first time in 6 weeks, coincidentally about as long as he had his tube. Even Mike, my hubby noticed the difference, Fred was scratching on the bathroom door wanting in while hubby was in there this morning, something he did every morning before he got the tube but not once after. My greatest concern is getting his meds into him and getting him to eat enough. Gave him his blood pressure meds this morning and it wasn't pretty, I can get the pills into him, it's getting him to drink or eat something after to make sure they go down and don't sit in his throat. I've made a deal with him that if he learns to cooperate with meds and eats better in the next 2 or 3 weeks we will put off the feeding tube indefinitely, so we'll see what happens. I'm going to ask my vet about injections for his potassium supplement and find out if his norvasc can be compounded or if it comes in an injectable, I think I already called the companies that sell it and I don't think it can be made into an injectable but I really don't remember. It's been a very trying 6 weeks, Fred's had an infection for pretty much most of that time. I'm worried about what the future holds but I'm really going to try and just take it one day at a time. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
Belinda, if you can get your husband to help, have him ready with a syringe for water or some tasty liquid. When you put the pill in, syringe some water in. They have to swallow. Beth Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I was going to have them put another tube in but I think they would have to wait 2 or 3 weeks because his infection isn't gone yet and they said we would have to wait for that to completely heal. But I have already decided to wait on the tube because it is so obvious that Fred is a different cat without it. He slept on my pillow for the first time in 6 weeks, coincidentally about as long as he had his tube. Even Mike, my hubby noticed the difference, Fred was scratching on the bathroom door wanting in while hubby was in there this morning, something he did every morning before he got the tube but not once after. My greatest concern is getting his meds into him and getting him to eat enough. Gave him his blood pressure meds this morning and it wasn't pretty, I can get the pills into him, it's getting him to drink or eat something after to make sure they go down and don't sit in his throat. I've made a deal with him that if he learns to cooperate with meds and eats better in the next 2 or 3 weeks we will put off the feeding tube indefinitely, so we'll see what happens. I'm going to ask my vet about injections for his potassium supplement and find out if his norvasc can be compounded or if it comes in an injectable, I think I already called the companies that sell it and I don't think it can be made into an injectable but I really don't remember. It's been a very trying 6 weeks, Fred's had an infection for pretty much most of that time. I'm worried about what the future holds but I'm really going to try and just take it one day at a time. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com - We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
Re: Fred Update
Hi Belinda, Glad to hear that Fred spirits are up. Is there any way you could have a syringe filled with water or tuna juice and maybe squirt it in after he gets his pills? I don't know how possible that would be if he's struggling, why is it the ones that really really need the meds seem to be the ones who fight it most? So frustrating... Good luck, Beth On 3/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I was going to have them put another tube in but I think they would have to wait 2 or 3 weeks because his infection isn't gone yet and they said we would have to wait for that to completely heal. But I have already decided to wait on the tube because it is so obvious that Fred is a different cat without it. He slept on my pillow for the first time in 6 weeks, coincidentally about as long as he had his tube. Even Mike, my hubby noticed the difference, Fred was scratching on the bathroom door wanting in while hubby was in there this morning, something he did every morning before he got the tube but not once after. My greatest concern is getting his meds into him and getting him to eat enough. Gave him his blood pressure meds this morning and it wasn't pretty, I can get the pills into him, it's getting him to drink or eat something after to make sure they go down and don't sit in his throat. I've made a deal with him that if he learns to cooperate with meds and eats better in the next 2 or 3 weeks we will put off the feeding tube indefinitely, so we'll see what happens. I'm going to ask my vet about injections for his potassium supplement and find out if his norvasc can be compounded or if it comes in an injectable, I think I already called the companies that sell it and I don't think it can be made into an injectable but I really don't remember. It's been a very trying 6 weeks, Fred's had an infection for pretty much most of that time. I'm worried about what the future holds but I'm really going to try and just take it one day at a time. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
Nina, For now that is exactly what I am going to do, he is eating pretty good so far and absolutely happier, I can't be in denial about that, so 1 day at a time ... It's so telling that he has gone back to his old ways when he was able to remove the tube. I know how important it is to you to make use of every medical advantage in helping Fred extend his life, but try to let go of that, at least for a moment, and fully enjoy his small pleasures with him. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
Hey Belinda, I'm glad to hear that the old Fred is back so quickly. Wow! I guess he's trying to say something maybe. Do you think that Fred might possibly start eating now on his own? :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world: Indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: Fred Update
Hi Wendy, He is eating it's just a matter of eating enough and getting his meds into him, he isn't very cooperative with that. He gets blood pressure meds and potassium supplements neither which comes in an injectable form that would be realistic. I have to pill him 3 times a day, it's not the getting the pill in him, I can do that with some struggle but getting him to eat or drink after to make sure it goes down is the problem. Sometimes he'll drink a little milk or eat a bite after sometimes he won't, pills sitting in the esophagus can cause serious problems, we don't need anymore problems right now!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
5 MG per pound, every 12 hours. So it depends on Fred's weight, do you have a recent weight for him? I can give you exact solution instructions once I know his weight (we need to know how many times to divide the 250 MG dose to get the correct dose for his weight per pill). It's kinda complicated to do the math, but really easy to do once you get the math part all figured out. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources
Re: Fred Update
He was 9 lbs at the vets a few days ago, it may be a few ounces higher but right in that ball park. They're scales aren't that reliable, each scale will give you a different weight so I will weigh him on mine, I have something that is my test object and always weights the same so I know mine is accurate. So that would be a minumum of 45mgs, wonder if I divided into 1/4 = 62.5 would be too strong? When he was getting clavamox he got 62.5mg twice a day. He is sleeping right now but I'll get his weight later today. My thinking is when he was on the clavamox it cleared the infection up but they only had him on a 3 week course, so as soon as the clavamox was done within a week or so the infection came raging back. He is currently taking clindamycin until we see just what the culture says. If he goes back on the clavamox, when we run out per what the the vet prescribes, *I want to continue it for another month or so to make sure the infection is really gone!! *Will this cause any problems that anyone is aware of. I don't think they realize he is older with health issues and needs a longer course of antibiotics to get over things, course if they did they wouldn't have gotten that extra now 800.00 out of me, guess someone has to pay for that new building!! I do have a friend who has many special needs and sick cats and she has a few that have been on a low dose of antibiotics for a long, long time, it hasn't seemed to affect them adversely and when they don't get the antibiotics (I mean the fish mox) they don't eat and obviously don't feel well. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Fred Update
No, I don't think that would be too strong (It's not a very toxic drug, and you can give up to 10 MG per pound, according to some online sources I searched), but if you dissolve the tablet in some broth or water (or tuna juice), if you use a 1 CC syringe, and squirt exactly 5 syringes worth of your chosen fluid into the pill powder (grind the pill with a mortar and pestle until it's a fine powder), then shake well before each use, and draw up one syringe full, it would be a 50 MG dose (5 doses per pill). That's how I do it here where I have 10 -15 pound cats, generally speaking. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources
