Re: need advice from new member
Yeah. You are right! You'll get better care for the tinies that way. Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 8, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Kelley Saveika wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/ spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn't act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor's dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldn't want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I haven't had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified – so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and don't appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: need advice from new member
Dear Deana: You don't have to give up on those babies at all! Some vets--and some people--are much more likely to PTS little babies like that but it certainly isn't necessary at all. I raised three little newborns (The Three Orange Boyz) and they are now 10 months old. I kept them all because I wanted them to grow up and stay with their sibbies their whole life long. They tested negative to FeLV when they were tiny and then at nine months one developed swollen glands and found out on one day that he was FeLV pos and the next day that he had lymphoma. He's on chemotherapy and doing very well! The other babies are still negative and are now vaccinated against FeLV. You were in the right place twice for this little family. Once, when the poor mama was attacked and ran and again when she returned to you. She had her babies at your house so she felt safe with you, which is wonderful! Be sure and keep the babies very warm (very!) and, also, purchase some Bene-Bac for their little gut flora. The best kind to get is the big tube, not the little bitty ones from the pet stores. You will go berserk trying to feed Bene-Bac to squirmy little ones from those tiny tubes AND it will cost more, too! Revival Health is in Iowa (and on the web) and they have the good stuff. When they get poopy and you have to wash them under running water (which mine HATED!) go to the pharmacy and buy some little throwaway human baby washcloths because the poo is hard to get off. It's easier to get them clean AND they are SO fluffy and sweet- smelling! Your babies are so little that you can cut each human baby- sized washcloth into 16 (yes, sixteen!) itty bitty washcloths for kitty babies! Also, invest in disposable human bed pads--they're not very attractive (that green!) but boy, do they keep the laundry down. I wanted them to be groomed as though they had a kitty mommy-- it's good for their immune system --so I got them a tiny flea comb. I think it's Revival that sells a teeny-tiny flea comb about four or five inches long and it makes a perfect little hairbrush for them-- and they love it! I tried a toothbrush but it didn't work and that's when I saw the teeny little flea comb. Perfect! Oh--and don't let them suck on the little boys' peepees--not a good idea since they have such a strong sucking capacity. You will know that's what they are doing when they get what I like to call peepee head: the fur on their face will be plastered down and then above their forehead it'll be fluffy again. It's very amusing. Some people say to separate them but I didn't do that--I just carefully stopped it when they started rooting around somebody's little bottom and they're fine. If mommy was there they would obviously suck on her. There is a pillow that is available that has built-in nipples made from KMR nipples! It's expensive, though, and I'd just make one myself. There is also a kitty-mommy stuffed animal that has a heartbeat with it (from Target or Revival.) I would get the tiny ones tested--you don't have to do it right away. But you should take in your Ragdoll girl and have her tested, because it's good to know. I got a gorgeous little long-haired tuxedo, Mamie, that nobody wanted because she was FeLV positive. My vet and his tech saved her life when she was found on a golf course sick and wormy and fleazy. We had no idea how long she would live, so every birthday was a milestone. She was in fabulous health for ten years and then her immune system gave up on her. The vets just thought she was amazing. And so did I! Once you have one you learn fast how easy it is to care for them--and how long they can live, too! The only other thing I can think of to say--now--is, I would not have them spayed or neutered at the early age that is sometimes recommended. I feel that it's better if they are older, especially since they may have a weaker immune system because they lost their mommy, so I like to give them an edge by doing it at the older recommended age. I love little kitty babies! You are so lucky to care for them! Aren't they sweet? And sooo noisy when they are hungry! And I love their little tomato tummies! I hope I haven't given you kitten- raising information that you already know and if I have I apologize. But you absolutely don't have to PTS them. They deserve to live, too. Just be sure that your vet realizes that, too. Keep the big kitties away from the babies until you know everyone's FeLV status, tho. What colors are they? Are they long or short haired? Boys? Girls? Tee Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 8, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Deana K. Wagoner wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/ spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning
Re: need advice from new member
Regarding finding new clinics, ask around and also maybe call them up and drop in for a chat to see how you feel about the place. You'll know--after all, you're the mommy now! Congrats on one whole week caring for them! I felt kind of psychotic after the first week from lack of sleep--and I had one day there that I never got out of my nightgown! Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 8, 2007, at 3:04 PM, Deana K. Wagoner wrote: I really think the ragdoll was dumped and just took up with the ferals. She certainly stood out from the crowd! She adapted to indoor life nicely and hasn't wanted to venture out again after finding soft furniture and beds to lounge on! The deal with the testing really does have me baffled. I am not sure how to go about selecting another vet, but there are some Cat only clinics in my area. Would they be more likely to be up on the latest? Thanks for all the help! I am certainly glad that I found this list. -Original Message- From: MaryChristine Sent: May 8, 2007 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: need advice from new member i'm sorry, a FERAL ragdoll? that's almost as oxymoronic as a feral persian! most raggies need to take classes to even learn how to hiss and growl okay, to get serious. (me?) have to agree with kelley. sounds to ME that if a vet did a second snap test right away, it's because they were pretty sure they messed up the first one: there's a very specific set of steps you have to go through to do the snap correctly, and there is NO reason to redo it immediately--unless you forget to have the test out of the refrigerator for the correct time, you didn't have enough blood, you didn't put in enough test solution, you snapped the test wrong (if it's not kept perfectly level, the test is compromised), and you didn't check the test circles at the right time. ie, they screwed up. and when they screw up that badly, i wouldn't particularly trust them to have done the second one correctly either. so much for my humble opinion on that. the latest research that i have read seems to be leading to mom- kitten transmission being as much, if not more, from the actual birth PROCESS (contact with the mucous membranes) than from in- utero infection, with the even more dangerous thing being all the nursing and mutual grooming momcat does as the babies as learning about the real world. if this is true, then these kittens may have a very good chance of not being positive. since mom died from injuries and not anything related to a compromised immune system per se, she might have been in the process of throwing off the virus herself, and so to assume that either she OR the babies would/will remain positive is unscientific, unmedical, and that vet should be ashamed of himself. FELV+, FIV+, FIP play out the articles on FeLV (heck, on all three since i'm sure he's no more aware on those) for him. there is really no excuse for a medical professional to CHOOSE to remain ignorant when information is out there. and yes, unfortunately, it IS common--after all, why learn anything or tax your skills when the first line of treatment is the easiest: just kill them all! (sorry, hon, but we around here get REALLY hissed when we keep hearing this stuff.) THANK YOU FOR NOT LISTENING TO HIM! because, even if they ARE positive, if they're healthy and happy, they have as much right to occupy space as any of us. (and more than some? oops, i didn't say that.) MC On 5/8/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/ spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn't act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor's dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens
Re: need advice from new member
Hi Deana, Like you, I am new to this as well. My friend and I rescued a momma kitty with 6 kittens and a 6 month old boy. The boy turned up negative but the momma turned up positive. We were told by other rescuers to have all of them PTS, but my friend and I just couldn't do it. We didn't feel like we knew enough about this disease to take happy healthy kittens and have them PTS. I am so glad I didn't do it because now that I know more there is a huge chance these kittens can have great lives...their momma has no symptoms at all so who knows if for one the test was right or if the babies will even get it. We have actually already found homes for the boy and one of the babies in the same home and the family has decided to give the FeLV vaccine to their negative kitties...these cats can and will have a better chance at life because we chose not to PTS...keep up the good work with the kittens...it is so worth it. Sheryl --- Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnât tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenât had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnât act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâs dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnât want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenât had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified â so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and donât appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
Hurray! Thank you for reminding me once again how the rewards of being a member of this list outweigh all the heartache we endure. It's filled with people just like the two of you. People that put their intuition and heart before the advice of others that don't know any better, or have found themselves in circumstances that they feel force them to make such drastic and final choices. One loving guardian at a time, one educated vet at a time, we are making a difference in our world. Much love, happiness and health to you and your households, Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: Hi Deana, Like you, I am new to this as well. My friend and I rescued a momma kitty with 6 kittens and a 6 month old boy. The boy turned up negative but the momma turned up positive. We were told by other rescuers to have all of them PTS, but my friend and I just couldn't do it. We didn't feel like we knew enough about this disease to take happy healthy kittens and have them PTS. I am so glad I didn't do it because now that I know more there is a huge chance these kittens can have great lives...their momma has no symptoms at all so who knows if for one the test was right or if the babies will even get it. We have actually already found homes for the boy and one of the babies in the same home and the family has decided to give the FeLV vaccine to their negative kitties...these cats can and will have a better chance at life because we chose not to PTS...keep up the good work with the kittens...it is so worth it. Sheryl --- Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnâEUR^(TM)t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnâEUR^(TM)t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâEUR^(TM)s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnâEUR^(TM)t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified âEUR so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and donâEUR^(TM)t appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
Thanks Nina. I actually called my vet and talked to my favorite vet tech and not once did she mention PTS. She explained to me about the disease and told me about a kitten she had that was positive and she had to find a home for but other than that there was NO talk of PTS. Any vet that tells people that has certainly not done their research...I am not a vet by any means, but there is no way I would put a cat/kittens to sleep because they have a 30% chance of getting sick...that is unreasonable in my eyes...I already have 4 cats of my own and of them 3 have issues (Diabetes Seizures) so you never know if a cat is going to get sick or not...or a dog for that matter...it is life and you deal with it...you certainly don't give up! Sheryl --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hurray! Thank you for reminding me once again how the rewards of being a member of this list outweigh all the heartache we endure. It's filled with people just like the two of you. People that put their intuition and heart before the advice of others that don't know any better, or have found themselves in circumstances that they feel force them to make such drastic and final choices. One loving guardian at a time, one educated vet at a time, we are making a difference in our world. Much love, happiness and health to you and your households, Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: Hi Deana, Like you, I am new to this as well. My friend and I rescued a momma kitty with 6 kittens and a 6 month old boy. The boy turned up negative but the momma turned up positive. We were told by other rescuers to have all of them PTS, but my friend and I just couldn't do it. We didn't feel like we knew enough about this disease to take happy healthy kittens and have them PTS. I am so glad I didn't do it because now that I know more there is a huge chance these kittens can have great lives...their momma has no symptoms at all so who knows if for one the test was right or if the babies will even get it. We have actually already found homes for the boy and one of the babies in the same home and the family has decided to give the FeLV vaccine to their negative kitties...these cats can and will have a better chance at life because we chose not to PTS...keep up the good work with the kittens...it is so worth it. Sheryl --- Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnâEUR^(TM)t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnâEUR^(TM)t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâEUR^(TM)s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnâEUR^(TM)t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified âEUR so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and donâEUR^(TM)t appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice.
Re: need advice from new member
You need a different vet. He's done two tests, with conflicting results, and no tests on the kittens, and let he's advocating euth? He's NUTS. Period. NO, that's not the right thing to do, and NO that's not the usual course of action. You have an INCOMPETENT VET! Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
and the real thing that people keep forgetting is that there are no guarantees for the kitties who DON'T have FeLV! your $2,500 showcat can fall over permanently from HCM, anyone can throw a blood clot, etc. same with people--if we stop loving other living things because they're gonna get sick and die, well, think about it MC On 5/9/07, Sheryl Spagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Nina. I actually called my vet and talked to my favorite vet tech and not once did she mention PTS. She explained to me about the disease and told me about a kitten she had that was positive and she had to find a home for but other than that there was NO talk of PTS. Any vet that tells people that has certainly not done their research...I am not a vet by any means, but there is no way I would put a cat/kittens to sleep because they have a 30% chance of getting sick...that is unreasonable in my eyes...I already have 4 cats of my own and of them 3 have issues (Diabetes Seizures) so you never know if a cat is going to get sick or not...or a dog for that matter...it is life and you deal with it...you certainly don't give up! Sheryl --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hurray! Thank you for reminding me once again how the rewards of being a member of this list outweigh all the heartache we endure. It's filled with people just like the two of you. People that put their intuition and heart before the advice of others that don't know any better, or have found themselves in circumstances that they feel force them to make such drastic and final choices. One loving guardian at a time, one educated vet at a time, we are making a difference in our world. Much love, happiness and health to you and your households, Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: Hi Deana, Like you, I am new to this as well. My friend and I rescued a momma kitty with 6 kittens and a 6 month old boy. The boy turned up negative but the momma turned up positive. We were told by other rescuers to have all of them PTS, but my friend and I just couldn't do it. We didn't feel like we knew enough about this disease to take happy healthy kittens and have them PTS. I am so glad I didn't do it because now that I know more there is a huge chance these kittens can have great lives...their momma has no symptoms at all so who knows if for one the test was right or if the babies will even get it. We have actually already found homes for the boy and one of the babies in the same home and the family has decided to give the FeLV vaccine to their negative kitties...these cats can and will have a better chance at life because we chose not to PTS...keep up the good work with the kittens...it is so worth it. Sheryl --- Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnâEUR^(TM)t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnâEUR^(TM)t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâEUR^(TM)s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnâEUR^(TM)t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified âEUR so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
Yep, there's a 'bus' with your name on it out there somewhere. Now that is guaranteed. N MaryChristine wrote: and the real thing that people keep forgetting is that there are no guarantees for the kitties who DON'T have FeLV! your $2,500 showcat can fall over permanently from HCM, anyone can throw a blood clot, etc. same with people--if we stop loving other living things because they're gonna get sick and die, well, think about it MC On 5/9/07, *Sheryl Spagg* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Nina. I actually called my vet and talked to my favorite vet tech and not once did she mention PTS. She explained to me about the disease and told me about a kitten she had that was positive and she had to find a home for but other than that there was NO talk of PTS. Any vet that tells people that has certainly not done their research...I am not a vet by any means, but there is no way I would put a cat/kittens to sleep because they have a 30% chance of getting sick...that is unreasonable in my eyes...I already have 4 cats of my own and of them 3 have issues (Diabetes Seizures) so you never know if a cat is going to get sick or not...or a dog for that matter...it is life and you deal with it...you certainly don't give up! Sheryl
Re: need advice from new member
No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn't act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor's dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldn't want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I haven't had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified – so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and don't appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: need advice from new member
i'm sorry, a FERAL ragdoll? that's almost as oxymoronic as a feral persian! most raggies need to take classes to even learn how to hiss and growl okay, to get serious. (me?) have to agree with kelley. sounds to ME that if a vet did a second snap test right away, it's because they were pretty sure they messed up the first one: there's a very specific set of steps you have to go through to do the snap correctly, and there is NO reason to redo it immediately--unless you forget to have the test out of the refrigerator for the correct time, you didn't have enough blood, you didn't put in enough test solution, you snapped the test wrong (if it's not kept perfectly level, the test is compromised), and you didn't check the test circles at the right time. ie, they screwed up. and when they screw up that badly, i wouldn't particularly trust them to have done the second one correctly either. so much for my humble opinion on that. the latest research that i have read seems to be leading to mom-kitten transmission being as much, if not more, from the actual birth PROCESS (contact with the mucous membranes) than from in-utero infection, with the even more dangerous thing being all the nursing and mutual grooming momcat does as the babies as learning about the real world. if this is true, then these kittens may have a very good chance of not being positive. since mom died from injuries and not anything related to a compromised immune system per se, she might have been in the process of throwing off the virus herself, and so to assume that either she OR the babies would/will remain positive is unscientific, unmedical, and that vet should be ashamed of himself. FELV+, FIV+, FIP http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html play out the articles on FeLV (heck, on all three since i'm sure he's no more aware on those) for him. there is really no excuse for a medical professional to CHOOSE to remain ignorant when information is out there. and yes, unfortunately, it IS common--after all, why learn anything or tax your skills when the first line of treatment is the easiest: just kill them all! (sorry, hon, but we around here get REALLY hissed when we keep hearing this stuff.) THANK YOU FOR NOT LISTENING TO HIM! because, even if they ARE positive, if they're healthy and happy, they have as much right to occupy space as any of us. (and more than some? oops, i didn't say that.) MC On 5/8/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn't act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor's dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldn't want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I haven't had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified – so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and don't
Re: need advice from new member
Not only would I not consider pts those babies, I'd like to go punch your vet in the nose. It sounds like there is a question about whether that brave momma was actually pos herself, let alone the babies. So many vets are so outdated in the way they deal with felv. It used to be a common practice, (still is unfortunately in some shelters/rescues), to test one of the kittens in a litter and assume that if one tested pos, they all were. Or that because the mom is pos presume the kittens were too. From personal experience and from the folks on this list, I can tell you that isn't the case. Felv has very few hard fast rules, (it can make you crazy with fear and grief trying to second guess what might happen). The people on this list have had much more experience and I trust their input and knowledge more than any vet I've encountered. That doesn't mean you won't need a vet to help you with raising these kits, but you should start looking right now for one that has had experience with the disease that doesn't just write them off, (or at least one that will be willing to help you and be open to suggestions and researching possible solutions). Take a deep breath Deana. You are going to lose enough sleep with 3am feedings as it is. Don't allow yourself to fret over something that you don't have the answers to yet. Speaking of 3am feedings, I have a great homemade formula that I can send you off-list, (we can't do attachments), if you are interested. Welcome, and tell your vet to watch his back :-) Nina Deana K. Wagoner wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn’t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven’t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn’t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor’s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldn’t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I haven’t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified – so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and don’t appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana
Re: need advice from new member
Oh please do not put this kittens to sleep!! I would look into another vet. I have three 9 month old kitties that are positive and to date very healthy. I think you need to look for a cat savy vet. The testing done on the mom sounds suspcious to say the least. Deb H. Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnât tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenât had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnât act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâs dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnât want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenât had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified â so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and donât appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: need advice from new member
I really think the ragdoll was dumped and just took up with the ferals. She certainly stood out from the crowd! She adapted to indoor life nicely and hasn't wanted to venture out again after finding soft furniture and beds to lounge on! The deal with the testing really does haveme baffled. I am not sure how to go about selecting another vet, but there are some Cat only clinics in my area. Would they be more likely to be up on the latest? Thanks for all the help! I am certainly glad that I found this list. -Original Message- From: MaryChristine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: May 8, 2007 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: need advice from new member i'm sorry, a FERAL ragdoll? that's almost as oxymoronic as a feral persian! most raggies need to take classes to even learn how to hiss and growlokay, to get serious. (me?)have to agree with kelley. sounds to ME that if a vet did a second snap test right away, it's because they were pretty sure they messed up the first one: there's a very specific set of steps you have to go through to do the snap correctly, and there is NO reason to redo it immediately--unless you forget to have the test out of the refrigerator for the correct time, you didn't have enough blood, you didn't put in enough test solution, you "snapped" the test wrong (if it's not kept perfectly level, the test is compromised), and you didn't check the test circles at the right time. ie, they screwed up. and when they screw up that badly, i wouldn't particularly trust them to have done the second one correctly either. so much for my humble opinion on that. the latest research that i have read seems to be leading to mom-kitten transmission being as much, if not more, from the actual birth PROCESS (contact with the mucous membranes) than from in-utero infection, with the even more "dangerous" thing being all the nursing and mutual grooming momcat does as the babies as learning about the real world. if this is true, then these kittens may have a very good chance of not being positive. since mom died from injuries and not anything related to a compromised immune system per se, she might have been in the process of throwing off the virus herself, and so to assume that either she OR the babies would/will remain positive is unscientific, unmedical, and that vet should be ashamed of himself. FELV+, FIV+, FIP play out the articles on FeLV (heck, on all three since i'm sure he's no more aware on those) for him. there is really no excuse for a medical professional to CHOOSE to remain ignorant when information is out there. and yes, unfortunately, it IS common--after all, why learn anything or tax your skills when the first line of treatment is the easiest: just kill them all! (sorry, hon, but we around here get REALLY hissed when we keep hearing this stuff.) THANK YOU FOR NOT LISTENING TO HIM!because, even if they ARE positive, if they're healthy and happy, they have as much right to occupy space as any of us. (and more than some? oops, i didn't say that.) MC On 5/8/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test.1.They may not be pos.2.I am confused about the original test.It is not common to test akitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying.Was the kitty tested before death?Really confused about this part.3. GET ANOTHER VET.This one sounds awful.On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice.We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible.I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age.She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested.She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she is very healthy.I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped.She is a Rag Doll and really doesn't act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer.Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio.When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor's dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens.The mother cat went up a tree, then took off.I tried to follow her, with no luck.I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned.We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return.She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens.I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries.The vet suggested testing her for FeLV.(with the comment th
RE: need advice from new member
Hi Deana -- I don't have any experience with cat-only vets, but I would think by definition that they would have to be closer to the cutting edge on advances in feline medicine because that's their livelihood. I would suggest calling around and asking what they would do with a positive cat. If the first option they give is euthanize run for the hills. Hope you find somebody who's willing to work with you. Diane R. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deana K. Wagoner Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: need advice from new member I really think the ragdoll was dumped and just took up with the ferals. She certainly stood out from the crowd! She adapted to indoor life nicely and hasn't wanted to venture out again after finding soft furniture and beds to lounge on! The deal with the testing really does have me baffled. I am not sure how to go about selecting another vet, but there are some Cat only clinics in my area. Would they be more likely to be up on the latest? Thanks for all the help! I am certainly glad that I found this list. -Original Message- From: MaryChristine Sent: May 8, 2007 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: need advice from new member i'm sorry, a FERAL ragdoll? that's almost as oxymoronic as a feral persian! most raggies need to take classes to even learn how to hiss and growl okay, to get serious. (me?) have to agree with kelley. sounds to ME that if a vet did a second snap test right away, it's because they were pretty sure they messed up the first one: there's a very specific set of steps you have to go through to do the snap correctly, and there is NO reason to redo it immediately--unless you forget to have the test out of the refrigerator for the correct time, you didn't have enough blood, you didn't put in enough test solution, you snapped the test wrong (if it's not kept perfectly level, the test is compromised), and you didn't check the test circles at the right time. ie, they screwed up. and when they screw up that badly, i wouldn't particularly trust them to have done the second one correctly either. so much for my humble opinion on that. the latest research that i have read seems to be leading to mom-kitten transmission being as much, if not more, from the actual birth PROCESS (contact with the mucous membranes) than from in-utero infection, with the even more dangerous thing being all the nursing and mutual grooming momcat does as the babies as learning about the real world. if this is true, then these kittens may have a very good chance of not being positive. since mom died from injuries and not anything related to a compromised immune system per se, she might have been in the process of throwing off the virus herself, and so to assume that either she OR the babies would/will remain positive is unscientific, unmedical, and that vet should be ashamed of himself. FELV+, FIV+, FIP http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html play out the articles on FeLV (heck, on all three since i'm sure he's no more aware on those) for him. there is really no excuse for a medical professional to CHOOSE to remain ignorant when information is out there. and yes, unfortunately, it IS common--after all, why learn anything or tax your skills when the first line of treatment is the easiest: just kill them all! (sorry, hon, but we around here get REALLY hissed when we keep hearing this stuff.) THANK YOU FOR NOT LISTENING TO HIM! because, even if they ARE positive, if they're healthy and happy, they have as much right to occupy space as any of us. (and more than some? oops, i didn't say that.) MC On 5/8/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months
Re: need advice from new member
theoretically, they SHOULD be more aware. go to www.adopt.bemikitties.com and see if there are any FeLV friendly vets listed in your area.. also, call the cat-only place and ask what their attitude is toward FeLVs! On 5/8/07, Rosenfeldt, Diane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Deana -- I don't have any experience with cat-only vets, but I would think by definition that they would have to be closer to the cutting edge on advances in feline medicine because that's their livelihood. I would suggest calling around and asking what they would do with a positive cat. If the first option they give is euthanize run for the hills. Hope you find somebody who's willing to work with you. Diane R. -- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Deana K. Wagoner *Sent:* Tuesday, May 08, 2007 3:04 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: need advice from new member I really think the ragdoll was dumped and just took up with the ferals. She certainly stood out from the crowd! She adapted to indoor life nicely and hasn't wanted to venture out again after finding soft furniture and beds to lounge on! The deal with the testing really does have me baffled. I am not sure how to go about selecting another vet, but there are some Cat only clinics in my area. Would they be more likely to be up on the latest? Thanks for all the help! I am certainly glad that I found this list. -Original Message- From: MaryChristine Sent: May 8, 2007 2:07 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: need advice from new member i'm sorry, a FERAL ragdoll? that's almost as oxymoronic as a feral persian! most raggies need to take classes to even learn how to hiss and growl okay, to get serious. (me?) have to agree with kelley. sounds to ME that if a vet did a second snap test right away, it's because they were pretty sure they messed up the first one: there's a very specific set of steps you have to go through to do the snap correctly, and there is NO reason to redo it immediately--unless you forget to have the test out of the refrigerator for the correct time, you didn't have enough blood, you didn't put in enough test solution, you snapped the test wrong (if it's not kept perfectly level, the test is compromised), and you didn't check the test circles at the right time. ie, they screwed up. and when they screw up that badly, i wouldn't particularly trust them to have done the second one correctly either. so much for my humble opinion on that. the latest research that i have read seems to be leading to mom-kitten transmission being as much, if not more, from the actual birth PROCESS (contact with the mucous membranes) than from in-utero infection, with the even more dangerous thing being all the nursing and mutual grooming momcat does as the babies as learning about the real world. if this is true, then these kittens may have a very good chance of not being positive. since mom died from injuries and not anything related to a compromised immune system per se, she might have been in the process of throwing off the virus herself, and so to assume that either she OR the babies would/will remain positive is unscientific, unmedical, and that vet should be ashamed of himself. FELV+, FIV+, FIP http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html play out the articles on FeLV (heck, on all three since i'm sure he's no more aware on those) for him. there is really no excuse for a medical professional to CHOOSE to remain ignorant when information is out there. and yes, unfortunately, it IS common--after all, why learn anything or tax your skills when the first line of treatment is the easiest: just kill them all! (sorry, hon, but we around here get REALLY hissed when we keep hearing this stuff.) THANK YOU FOR NOT LISTENING TO HIM! because, even if they ARE positive, if they're healthy and happy, they have as much right to occupy space as any of us. (and more than some? oops, i didn't say that.) MC On 5/8/07, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No do not put any kittens to sleep because there is a pos test. 1. They may not be pos. 2. I am confused about the original test. It is not common to test a kitty twice, especially one who was injured and is dying. Was the kitty tested before death? Really confused about this part. 3. GET ANOTHER VET. This one sounds awful. On 5/8/07, Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn't tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven't had her tested yet, but she
