Re: So Worried and Irritated
Kathy The only time my vet gets a needle near the neck is when they're drawing blood or giving meds directly in a vein. Generally, Vit. B is given in the butt (by my vets, anyway), and usually with other things - like an antibiotic or steroid to boost the effects. She may not have been due for any meds until the day after her vet visit. Vit. B gives a lot of energy and stimulates the appetite, but her acting normal doesn't mean she's over her fever. Antibiotics like amoxy, clavimox, or cephalexin needs to be refrigerated, but as long as it's not out for more than about 24 hours in summer heat, it's probably okay to use it. When I worked at a pet shop (one of the better ones who was quick to pull sick animals to the back and take sick kittens and puppies to the vet) we used amoxy as a front line antibiotic. We rarely refrigerated it, and the critters getting it recovered within the time limits they should've if it was refrigerated. It may not have been as effective as refrigerated amoxy, but it was still effective. One of my vets likes using baytril (tablets)for adult cats with URI's but he won't use baytril on kittens under 9-10 months old unless it's an absolute last resort. Baytril is hard on something in kittens - I forget if it's their liver, kidneys, bone marrow, or heart though. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." Catherine-
Re: My Lucky is gone
Julie, I'm so sorry to hear about Lucky. My Lindsey had surgery for mammary cancer last month also - they had to remove the front and back chains on her left side, and two individual tumors on her right side. Like Lucky, she's seems to be doing well, but I've been watching for new lumps. Now I'll make a point of following her to the litter pan at least once everyday. Mammary cancer and mouth cancer arejust about the two most aggressive forms of cancer in cats - and neither one do well with surgery. It's hard to know if having surgery on it will extend their lives or shorten them. Lindsey's first lumps I found went from the size of a pea, to the size of a lima bean in less than a week. I'm hoping we can at least buy her an extra month or two. I'm so sorry you lost yourLucky. She sounds like a very strong and special girl. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." Catherine-
Re: Tip is Gone - Kathy
You're welcome Sheila I witnessed the 3 1/2 hour visit the night before my Tina died - she was 9 1/2 years old, was my first bottle baby - I got her when she was 2 days old (someone had been babysitting her mother, her mother got out, had her litter on the neighbor's porch, and went home before the babies were found. Tina and her sister still had their umbilical cords attached. Their mother refused to accept them when the babysitter took them to their mother, the mother's owner wanted nothing to do with them, so the baby sitter contacted the pet shop I worked at and I ended up with them), andhad been FeLV+ because ofa kitten I brought home and let have run of the house for 6 weeks before he was tested in 2000. Tina had been positive for 2 1/2 years when she passed. Seeing my patient's visit the night before she died, and knowing that he was one of the people who's family dog had been keeping watch for 2 weeks from the other side made her passing bearable -still difficult, but bearable. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: off-topic: do hospices for pets exist?
Niki's Felines Enjoying Lives of Value - F.E.L.V. rescue in NJ is a not-for-profit rescue/hospice/sanctuary for FeLV+ cats only. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Effie has her angel's wings
Del, I'm so sorry to hear of your losing Liz and Effie. I'm sorry you've lost them, and happy they're free of the physical problems that led to their passing. This came to me in nearly finished format work a while ago - after comments made by a patient and another patient's granddaughter. I hope it brings you comfort. Weep and Weep Well Weep, and weep well, for our losses, though not for their passing. For they have gone to a placewhere blind eyes can see, deaf ears can hear,and old, weak, and broken bodiesare young, healthy, and whole once more. Flesh and bonemay wither and die, but the Consciousnessand the Love survives. They may be gone, yet they're with us still. In our hearts and thoughts, and in our daily lives. Comforting us. Guiding us. And patiently waiting for the day when we come home to them once more, with Our youth and health restored. Weep, and weep well, for our lossesfor it shows the love we shared,and celebrates the life they lived, and the love we will always have. Celebrate their livesby living ours to the fullest,and telling their storieswith Love and a Smile. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: [rescuecat] Urgent: Cat in Pennsauken, NJ to be PTS
My guy, Byron, came from Nikki's in Nov. '03. When I met her, she said she had a job doing computer work of some kind (I can't remember now what kind) and she was also going to school, so she's very busy in addition to taking care of the cats. Most of her cats were in excellent condition and were obviously much loved, the ones who weren't were having problems with complications from FeLV (including Byron's brother). Those who were sick still looked to be in good condition and her love for them showed. If she has an opening, the ones who get to slip in are very fortunate to be there. If I wasn't full here, I'd be on my way to NJ to get this little one. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: raising kittens???
Hi Kristi That's wonderful that they were negative! I've bottle reared a lot of orphans. I'm assuming that a lot of this you already know, being a tech, but I'm giving a lot of info on formulas and such for lurkers or folks who may not have raised orphans before because kitten season is just around the corner. Generally, they'll start using a litter pan at 2-3 weeks (shoe box lids or foil brownieor biscuit pans work really well)and when they're starting to lick your fingers, you can try giving them formula out of a dish. When they get the hang of drinking out of something other than a bottle (be patient, it can take a while for them to figure it out), then you can start adding strained chicken baby food (make sure there are no onions in it - chicken or turkey are the easiest to digest), and rice, oatmeal, or mixed baby cereal. Start off with it being a very thin gruel - mostly milk replacer and meat, and then use the cereal to thicken it. When they've been eating that for a week or so, then you can use either softened dry kitten food (I used Purina kitten chow because it softened in water the fastest) or canned kitten food. The dry worked well with kittens with diarrhea from the food change and also switching from milk replacer to powdered dry milk (for people - which is fat free) helps with runnybutts. Science diet feline growth (it may be called "kitten" formula now) canned worked the best with the kittens I raised. Iams kittencanned was too pasty unless I mixed strained chicken baby food with it, the science diet was dry enough to crumble into bite sized pieces easily. I usually started with the baby food and cereal at about 3-4 weeks, switched from milk replacer to powdered dry milk at about5-6 weeks (because that's when they started to become lactose intolerant), and had them off the bottle completely at 8-10 weeks - or when they started biting nipples in half or pulling them out of the bottle. Even when they were eating out of a dish and I had them weaned to food with no milk in it, I still gave them a morning and bedtime (my bedtime) bottle to make sure they were getting enough to eat - their mom's would nurse them until they were about 12 weeks, but after 8 weeks, it's more for bonding than nourishment - according to all the books. I've found that the extra bottles, or at least the act of giving them an extra "easy" meal without all the solids in their other food really helped them to grow better. The ones who stopped getting a bottle as soon as they were eating out of a dish and getting more in their stomachs than on their faces and feet grew at a about a 1/4 pound a week (1 pound a month - roughly the same rate as if they were with their moms still), and if I didn't, they grew at something more like 1/4-1/2 a pound a month (12 week olds were often still the size of a mother raised 6 - 8 week old). Regardless of how fast they grew, they were still not neurologically developed enough to know they "had to go"in time to get to the pan if there was only one pan in the roomor to get to one of a couple pans in the house until they were 8 weeks old. Until then, I kept akitten sized pan under every end table andunderthe low shelves of my aquarium stands. Basically, I had at least one pan in each corner of everyroom the kittens had accessto. Have fun with the babies! Yours are getting to the cutestage - starting to run and falling over every couple steps, bouncing more than walking... makes me want to raise a litter myself! Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Effie has her angel's wings
You're welcome. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: off-topic: do hospices for pets exist?
She's in Andover, right along a lake (I can't remember the name of the lake). the addy for her websiteis http://members.petfinder.org/~NJ197/it's though petfinders, but it has a contact her feature and you can read more about her mission statement there. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: [rescuecat] Update: Urgent: Cat in Pennsauken, NJ to be PTS - Happy Tails!
That's wonderful Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: raising kittens???
Your welcome. I hope the diarrhea ends up being nothing to worry about. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Anakin is gone
I'm so sorry. I lost 2 to anemia in 2003. He had a good life with you. Hang onto that. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: raising kittens???
That's good news about the babies. Weaning is frustrating, but they can go from not having a clue to scarfing out of a dish in a couple of days. Have fun with them! This time goes so fast. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Blood Clot
One of my FeLV- guys, Shadow, had blood clots in all 4feet for a while shortly after he came here last fall. He was put on 1/2 a baby aspirin every 3rd day and given antibiotics for a couple weeks, and after a couple weeks he was back to normal. His started with one foot swelling and his favoring it, then another foot doing that, then another... over a few days. While his feet were swollen, it was painful for him to have his feet bear weight, so I put him in a cage that my Dad and I had made a while back that had two rooms - each room 20" x20" x20" with a hole in the wall joining them. I put a low litter pan in one room, and about 3" of sheets and blankets folded up covering the entire floor of the other, and fed and watered him in the padded room. He rolled everywhere he needed to go as much as he could and only stood when he had no choice. Once his clots dissolved though, he was back to his usual rambunctious self and hasn't had any other problems - I'm keeping him on the baby aspirin as a precaution though. His heart rate is normal and he doesn't have a murmur, and I keep a close eye on it to make sure it doesn't change (I check it myself every couple weeks). I'm planning on taking him to the internal medicine vet soon just to see if he should go on any heart meds. For now he's doing well just on aspirin though. Shadow's a 12 pound adult, go with the dose and frequency your vet recommended forTigger and ask if it should be increased if she gets bigger and by how much. Good luck with her. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Tiggie has gone to the Bridge
Holly, I'm so sorry to hear that Tiggie is gone. Blood clots are always tough to treat because there's no way of knowinghow manyare forming or where they're going to lodge. Shadowfax was lucky and they lodged in his legs near his feet. I was able to give him a place to recouperate where he didn't have to stand if he really didn't want to. But he was extremely lucky. Clots can lodge anywhere there's a blood vessel - some places are very painful, some are not survivable. My Dad's lastcat had some that went to his lungs and heart -and he was dying relatively slowly when Dad found him and ran him to the vet,.A friend of mine had a cat who had a stroke and died- presumably from blood clots lodging in her brain. My Dad had a single blood clot lodge in the pulmonary artery in one lung and it kept his blood from getting oxygen. He had to be hospitalized on massive doses of blood thinners and large quantities of oxygen to get through it. My Mom had a blood clot lodge in the right side of her brain last summer. It looked like she might pull through if we could get her over the pneumonia from accidentally inhaling a little water before we knew she was having trouble swallowing. A second blood clot to her brain stem 2 weeks later took her from us. Clots in people and cats work the same way and do the same things to them. Cat blood is stickier than human blood, so any little amount of turbulence in their heart - from a murmur, leaky valve, or whatever,is enough to make more form. What you did for Tiggie was a very difficult and kind thing. It's never easy to say goodbye, but to have to say it to a young one, and one who was normal just a few days ago is so very hard. I'll be keeping you both in my prayers. Where there's Life, there's HopeKathy"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as real strength." ~ Sir Francis de Sates
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
I'm getting ready to do the ear mite annihilation thing myself again. I use.1 ml Ivermectin and .9 ml water per adult injected, and with the few who are eithervery hard to inject or who have health problems that make me nervous about introducing more meds into their blood streams (I havetwo withhypertrophic cardiomyopathy and get atenolol every day and baby aspirin every 3rd day, one ofthe two also has a seizure disorder and gets phenobarb for it twice a day, and I have another who has asthma and gets pred and aminophylline twice a day everyday) I use mineral oil instead of water (same amount) and use 1/2 ml per ear. With little ones, I divide 1ml by 8 (pounds - average weight of an adult cat) and use that amount per pound - weighing the kitten before giving it - basically .25ml (total)/2 pounds. I don't use it on kittens under 2 pounds as a rule, but if one had mites bad enough, I'd probably gowith the appropriate dose of the mineral oil mixture in their ears.
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
Ivermectin can be bought without a prescription at farm supply stores. It'ssold as a cattle and pig wormer. I've been using the 1% solution made by Merck. The package says "ivomec injection". It comes in a 50ml bottle - so at .1 ml per adult, it'll last for about 500 doses. One of the things I like most about ivermectin is that you only have to use it once every 2 weeks - rather than every day forx# weeks.
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
BTW - I jumped in to the discussion after only reading one or two postings. I see that the doses and where to find it were already discussed. I have used it both injected and topically many times and have never had a bad reaction to it. I have 49 I'm treating now, and I've had over 200 individual cats since '97 who've used it - not to mention using it at the pet shop I used to work for (that's where I found out about it and the dose). Basically, if you don't know how a cat will react to it, go with the topical dosing rather than injecting it. The box I have says that there have been severe reactions to it in dogs including fatalities(I'm assuming it was injected in those cases at too high a dose).
Re: Great News! Hartz is withdrawing their awful Flea and Tick Drops!
Wonderful news! I just hope what they replace it with is safe. The stuff they're taking off the market was killing the cats it wasused on. I hope they follow suit with the dog flea stuff - it's just as dangerous as the cat version.
Re: New member
Jenn, I agree with you that FeLV isn't easy to catch and isn't cause for immediate panic, but it can be caught among healthy normal adults. I don't vaccinate for FeLV because my vet said that the vaccine doesn't boost immunity enough to be worth the risks - once exposed, it only boosts immunity by about 1% - and most of my guys were exposed initially for 6 weeks in 2000,VAS has been linked to FeLV vaccine more than to any other, and the cost is prohibitive for large numbers of cats to be vaccinated. Even before the exposure event, the vet had not encouraged me to vaccinate for FeLV because he said the only people pushing the FeLV vaccine anymore were the schools who developed it and vets out to make a quick buck. He felt the riskof VAS from the vaccine was greater than the risk of FeLV because roughly 80% of the population is naturally immune. Theoretically, had I tested all new arrivals before letting them in, we could prevent exposure pretty effectively and more cost efficiently than with vaccinating. I still think the VAS risk outweighs the convenience of letting my guys all live together in one group - but that's just my decision based on my own fears and paranoia's - and guilt from other events. With everything we've been through here, I don't think I could take finding out even one of my negatives had cancer because of a vaccine to let my groups live together when keeping them separate and unvaccinated (for FeLV only - they get the other vaccines according to the new protocols) has worked well so far. Here's how I ended up withFeLV here. On 12/29/99, I brought home a kitten to be socialized that looked to be 6 weeks old and was too small for my vet to test (he didn't have needles small enough for the blood draw). Since the kitten looked completely healthy after the first 3 days, I let him have run of the house with my other 26 cats at the time- ranging in age from less than a year to 9 years. My other cats were all FEV/FeLV negative and were in near show condition (even when I had to take one to the ER vet now and then, and the vet found out how many cats I had, they commented on how good they looked overall). We'd been dealing with ringworm all fall, but the last of the 11 who'd come down with it had been recovered and free of bald spots for almost a month. 6 weeks later, the kitten, Akechta, came down with a sniffle and I wasn't overly worried - sniffles are common with kittens, so I started him on amoxy and made a note of the day I started to see symptoms (record keeping to the point of being anal has saved our butts and helped me to catch bugs and disorders in the early stages before it became life threatening more times than I can count). After 3 days, Akechta wasn't improving and he'd started getting bald spots on his white areas (he was a black and white tux short hair), so I took him to the vet and we put him on baytril. 4 days later, he was much worse, then we did a blood test and found out he was very strong + for FeLV - it only took about 3 minutes for the test to show strong+ instead of the normal 10-15 minutes.Because he wasn't responding to meds and thebald spots turned out to be ringworm and were taking over his body, we put him to sleep. A month later, I started testing, andthen, after a year of testing and keeping multiple groups, I had6 strong positives (ages were age at the time of the strong positive test) - Slick Willie (the first to go strong positive) 8 months old, Redbud- 3 years, Monty - 1 year, Tina - (my first bottle baby - I got her when she was 2 days old) 7 years, Pasula Sapa (Willie's 1/2 Aunt) - 2 years old, andSamson - (Slick Willie's dad and the last to go strong positive a year after exposure) - 3 years. None of my +'s hadbeen sick withringworm. I have pictures of a number of my other guys who were snuggling with and bathing Akechta, and stayed entirely negative. I also had 4 who were positive for exposure on the first test and went negative on the second test 3 months later, and stayed negative on the 3rd test 3 months after that. Because I had the 6 who went positive, my positives live in my bedroom and my negatives have the rest of the house (had I ended up with morepositives than negatives, they would've been reversed, and if I'd had closer to50% + and -, I would've cut doors in a couple wallsand putglass doors on a couple bedrooms(so they could see the rest of thehouse and to keep the house from feeling much smaller) or left the walls as they were and put a custom fit glass door in the hallway (to divide my house more or less in half) - preferably with a top section that hada screen and aglass panel that could be lowered to prevent nose to nose contact, reduce sneeze throughs and still let me have some air movement when everyone was otherwise healthy. What's become of my FeLV+ group since then. Samson died from lung cancer caused by FeLV 4 months after he went strong positive (died on
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
Thanks Nina, We have pilling down to an art form, and when it's time to treat for fleas or ear mites, I pick a weekend and usually either doboth on 1/2 the cats one day and the other 1/2 the next day, or I do all the cats with flea stuff one day and either do the ear mite thing the next day orthe next weekend. I keep a chart on the inside of one of my kitchen cabinets and have birth dates, last vaccination date, weights, date weighed, and dates treated for fleas and ear mites - and notes tracking weight changes. The notes about weight changes helped me spot Kola's heart problem and Momma's hyperthyroid problem (she had surgery to remove the tumor a couple months ago). Basically, I get morning meds given, make sure they have food and water, then run before I get the "Mom, she's touching me! Mom, I need to be picked up! Mom! Mom! Mom!"'s They're such silly buggers.
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
That's good to know! I used Acarexx on one of my adults about 10 weeks ago. I'll have to recheck her. It's so hard to try to keep ferals ears healthy - and a colony is a colony when it comes to numbers and keeping things like earmites and fleas under control whether they're inside or outside and whether they're people friendly or not. It's still a major job to treat them. I'll have to try comparing the effectiveness of Acarexx and home made Ivermectin compounds. In a message dated 6/13/2005 10:59:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When I trap a feral for TNR, if they have earmites, they get Acarexx, (.01% Ivermectin) in the ear canal. I've had occasion to re-trap two cats that this was done with, at least a month later, with no signs of re-infestation. My mom's cat had a nasty case of earmites and we used the Acarexx on him, again, he didn't have to be re-dosed. I realize that the second dose is for the eggs, but in at least these three instances, one dose seems to have been enough. With ferals that's so very important. Once again, thanks for the specifics. I always feel better giving my charges something that has been proven to be safe and effective.Nina
Re: Nina, ivermectin 4 earmites
Thanks for the info - that's going in my file. I'm going to try the olive oil instead of mineral oil in my topical guys - you're right - might as well be assafe as possible. In a message dated 6/14/2005 2:01:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kathy,I just heard from my internist's office about dilution ratios for Ivermectin (for use in ear canal for earmites). She actually suggests diluting it even further, 1 part 1% Ivermectin to 99 parts dilution substance. She suggested using olive oil rather than mineral oil. Apparently there is something contained in mineral oil that is "ototoxic" to cats, (toxic to the ears). It must not be a very great danger, since you've been doing this with success for so long, but might as well be as safe as possible.Thanks for all your help,Nina
Re: for Kathy New member
Dear Kerry Thanks for your response. Most of the time, I do the best I can with what we've been given, and don't think about the guilt too much. Over the last couple years, I've come up with a couple philosophical ideas that helps when the guilt hits - or when things go wrong: "As long as we do the best that we can for those that are in our care, as long as we stay alert to changes (weight, appetite, drinking, condition, etc.) in those that are in our care (and act on it), as long as we learn from our mistakes and try to teach what we've learned to others, and as long as we remember that many serious diseases have very similar symptoms as minor bugs and some animals are extraordinarily good at hiding medical problems until they're at deaths' door, then when one crosses over to the other side, we can honestly say we did our best and forgive ourselves. Because they already have."I came up with that a year after Samson died - it happened to be about the time I forgave myself for what happened to and because of Akechta and let myself grieve for Akechta's death. I'd been nuts over the little guy - even though he never did learn to like me - and when he tested positive and had to be helped to the bridge because he was so sick, I was so angry with myself for exposing my healthy kids to this virus that I blamed Akechta for getting them sick. It wasn't until we'd faced an outbreak of FIP in 2002because of a Bengal kitten I'd bought who was vaccinated for FIP too young and was mildly sickbecause of the vaccine when I got him that I realized that Akechta didn't ask to be positive anymore than Kohana asked to be vaccinated with a vaccine that's been proven worse than useless just because his breeder thought it would make him moremarketable. He was vaccinated before he was 11 weeks old, theinstructions on the vaccines themselves say not to use it in cats less than 16 weeks old. In kittens that are vaccinated for FIP, a significant number will get FIP from the vaccine, and those that don't and then are exposed to a different strain of the corona virus than the one their FIP vaccine came from, they're more likely to get FIP than unvaccinated kittens. and the other one is: It's normal to want to do everything humanly possible to save a life, and that's important. Doing everything humanely possible to ease suffering is much more important, and sometimes, when the treatment is worse than the disease, and the disease is beyond any chance of a cure, that means letting go. Knowing when to let go is the most important thing of all. Give them every good day they have coming, but know when that last good day has been spent. I came up with that during my time with Legolas. I think you made the right decision with Momcat. It would've been more traumatic for her to be separated from the others. That would be hard to spend time with them to keep an eye on how they're doing and who's showing what symptoms if they were in a bedroom that you didn't have any reason to go into other than to check on them - I ran into that during the quarantine period with these guys. Luckily, my positives all like me to spend time with them, so sleeping with them and being with them before and after I go to bed helps a lot and lets me splitmy time between the two groups more easily. The down side is that I only get to sleep with my negatives when I decide to camp out on the futon in the living room. It would be harder to do that if my positives were feral - then again, it might help them to get comfortable with me faster. It's hard to look threatening when you're asleep. Not all cats who get the FeLV vaccine will getVAS, but a lot of the ones who getVAS tend to get itat the site where they were given their FeLV vaccines.From what I understand, VAS is relatively rare.but knowing my guys and the waythey like to find the medical zebras (unusual, unlikely, and often bizarreproblems), I figure we'd probably end up with 10 or more coming down with VAS.
