Re: [Finale] Re: Finale 2010a Maintenance Update Now Available
That sounds a bit too close to Socialism, David! JR On 10/20/09 7:34 PM, David W. Fenton lists.fin...@dfenton.com wrote: I'm reminded of the recent exchange in a health care hearing on Capitol Hill in DC where a male Congressman observed that he didn't need pre-natal care in his health insurance, so he was paying for something he couldn't use. A female Congressman pointed out that his mother probably needed it, but the point that I'm trying to make in relation to Finale is that things that don't matter to you personally may matter to enough other Finale users to keep them committed to buying upgrades. That's good for everyone in the long run, even if it's completely useless to you, personally. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
funny how that works. wait a day and it only takes 15min... 8-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale 2010a Maintenance Update Now Available
On Tue Oct 20, at TuesdayOct 20 7:34 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 20 Oct 2009 at 20:41, shirling neueweise wrote: Wow, Individual Flash Cards! Oh man sign me up. seems that is more important than fixing linked parts... or a plethora of other stupid bugs. It got included because it was VERY, VERY EASY to add, as it didn't require any programming changes. This is typical -- low-value features that are extremely simple to implement are going to get implemented before high-value features (or bug fixes) that are extremely complex. It's just your basic low- hanging fruit strategy. I'm reminded of the recent exchange in a health care hearing on Capitol Hill in DC where a male Congressman observed that he didn't need pre-natal care in his health insurance, so he was paying for something he couldn't use. A female Congressman pointed out that his mother probably needed it, but the point that I'm trying to make in relation to Finale is that things that don't matter to you personally may matter to enough other Finale users to keep them committed to buying upgrades. That's good for everyone in the long run, even if it's completely useless to you, personally. I understand about the low-hanging fruit thing, but do you really think Flash Cards was a deal-breaker for people wondering whether to upgrade, switch, or start fresh on Finale? Not a good comparison to prenatal medical care, which is LITERALLY a life-or-death question for some people. Now, improvements to the default files, or to the JazzFont, THAT is easy to implement with far-reaching effects. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
David W. Fenton wrote: On 20 Oct 2009 at 19:39, dhbailey wrote: in the list of fixes, the claim is made that the User Manual now opens in the default browser. If that's true, it'll be a long-standing gripe resolved. And makes me wonder why it couldn't have been done a couple of versions ago, when they went to HTML help files in the first place. I think a number of us have offered plausible explanations more than once. If an application developer chooses a set of tools to produce cross-platform help files, and the tools are limited in what they can do in regard to browser-agnosticism, then the developer can end up with a situation like that which so many have complained about for so long. If MM didn't use such tools, I would guess that they would likely have been unable to produce the documentation as quickly or as accurately. Obviously, the development team made the determination based on their knowledge of all the trade-offs involved that it was better to cause the minor annoyance of opening in one particular browser on Windows instead of using the default browser than it was to pay whatever the price would be to avoid that annoyance. You don't know what the trade-offs involved were, so you can't really judge if it was the best decision. My guess is that it was the best they could do with their limited resources. It's just too bad they couldn't have made whatever adjustment was necessary to avoid the problem much, much sooner. The download completed (after 5 hours!) and installed, and indeed the readme file was right -- now the User Manual opens in the default browser. So somehow the figured it out -- something which Mac users have been able to do for a long time, so it remains a murky question as to why Windows users had to wait so long. In any event at least one long-standing complaint has been answered for this user. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] FinaleScript for Dummies..
I want to batch format 30 music files at once, making a change in page format. ah right, yeah finale script is the way to go. i only recently started looking into this and find it a huge pain to understand. what is needed is a list compiled of possible commands; the format they have chosen works for a general user manual but when writing code, the thinking is entirely different. glancing through the documentation, here are a few commands that could be of use in building the script. once in the layout tool, run the script. i am looking into this, so the following is not the final script, just a few ideas that could be used for it; let me know what you come up with as well. source batch folders Users/Folder/Subfolder select window Edit Page Margins type 00 near Top tab type 00 tab type 00 tab type 00 click radio All Pages this doesn't allow for different margins on facing pages... yet. -- another option? set the margins in the document that is to be the master, redefine all pages to make sure everything is ok and then run the following (also not verified): batch process the folder import page format for score from main document i'm trying to find out how to apply redefine all pages of current score/part... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On 21 Oct 2009 at 7:47, dhbailey wrote: So somehow the figured it out -- something which Mac users have been able to do for a long time, so it remains a murky question as to why Windows users had to wait so long. David, it's not murky at all. It's very, very likely a reliance on 3rd-party tools that make the job of creating the help files easier that caused the problem. Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la-la-la is not a very adult way to respond to this kind of thing. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2010a update claim
MM says that the crash causing bug resulting from resizing the main tool pallet has been fixed. Sort of - I think. I can reshape the pallet, re-order and arrange the tools, and the program seems to remain stable, but there's something I can't get to work, and I'd like someone else to try it (n 2010a, of course) when you might have a moment. After reordering the tools in the pallet window and moving the ones I use to the upper part of the window, I try to close up the unused ones in the lower part by dragging the lower corner of the pallet upward. This used to (in earlier versions - pre-bug) leave the tools in their new positions, allowing me to see only those I need. Now, when I try this, the tool positions change making it impossible to reduce the window size and hide the unused tools. If one of you can check this to make sure I am not missing something, I will appreciate it. I don't want to complain to MM until I'm sure I know what I'm talking about. Thanks, Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:38 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la-la-la is not a very adult way to respond to this kind of thing. I kinda thought he looked cute doing that! Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MakeMusic - The end of;-)
I see that 2010a STILL does not have the SMARTMUSIC tab on the DOCUMENTS menu. I haven't played with it; however, I doubt that the old way to make SM files does either. The central fact remains - those who adopt early are beta-testers - unpaid beta-testers. This is fundamentally dishonest. Also, I have the NEW Garritan Personal Orchestra. The ARIA player that comes with it is MUCH better than what comes with FINALE. One noticeable change is that FINALE seems to run a bit faster;-) Henry Howey Professor of Music Sam Houston State University Box 2208 Huntsville, TX 77341 (936) 294-1364 http://www.shsu.edu/music/faculty/howey.php Owner of FINALE Discussion List ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Darcy in the Times
Congrats to Darcy for the lovely photo and review in todays NY Times.onward and upward! Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
David W. Fenton wrote: On 21 Oct 2009 at 7:47, dhbailey wrote: So somehow the figured it out -- something which Mac users have been able to do for a long time, so it remains a murky question as to why Windows users had to wait so long. David, it's not murky at all. It's very, very likely a reliance on 3rd-party tools that make the job of creating the help files easier that caused the problem. Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la-la-la is not a very adult way to respond to this kind of thing. I certainly am doing that. I eagerly await your lambasting Henry Howey for his comment agreeing with my contention that we're all unpaid beta testers only he went one step further and said it was fundamentally dishonest. la-la-la I can't hear you. :-) -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Davids... Don't make me come back there! Are we going to have to separate you? Your father will hear about this if you don't stop and play nice. Why did we name them ALL David!? Sincerely, The lady from the Dr. Seuss book who had 23 sons and named them all Dave On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 3:31 PM, dhbailey wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: On 21 Oct 2009 at 7:47, dhbailey wrote: So somehow the figured it out -- something which Mac users have been able to do for a long time, so it remains a murky question as to why Windows users had to wait so long. David, it's not murky at all. It's very, very likely a reliance on 3rd-party tools that make the job of creating the help files easier that caused the problem. Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la-la-la is not a very adult way to respond to this kind of thing. I certainly am doing that. I eagerly await your lambasting Henry Howey for his comment agreeing with my contention that we're all unpaid beta testers only he went one step further and said it was fundamentally dishonest. la-la-la I can't hear you. :-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Darcy in the Times
Michael Greensill wrote: Congrats to Darcy for the lovely photo and review in todays NY Times.onward and upward! Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Wow, first PBS and now the Times! What's next? Congratulations, Darcy! -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
I'm sitting in my corner now and writing on the wall 100 times 'I will play nice with others.' Now I just hope my mother doesn't find out who wrote all over her wall! David la-la-la Bailey Christopher Smith wrote: Davids... Don't make me come back there! Are we going to have to separate you? Your father will hear about this if you don't stop and play nice. Why did we name them ALL David!? Sincerely, The lady from the Dr. Seuss book who had 23 sons and named them all Dave On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 3:31 PM, dhbailey wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: On 21 Oct 2009 at 7:47, dhbailey wrote: So somehow the figured it out -- something which Mac users have been able to do for a long time, so it remains a murky question as to why Windows users had to wait so long. David, it's not murky at all. It's very, very likely a reliance on 3rd-party tools that make the job of creating the help files easier that caused the problem. Sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la-la-la is not a very adult way to respond to this kind of thing. I certainly am doing that. I eagerly await your lambasting Henry Howey for his comment agreeing with my contention that we're all unpaid beta testers only he went one step further and said it was fundamentally dishonest. la-la-la I can't hear you. :-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] A naive computer question
After downloading the up-date and installing it, I'm left with the Finale 2010 Updater on my desktop. What am I supposed to do with that? Store it somewhere, delete it? I think I have a folder full of those type of things somewhere, but I've never been told what to do with them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On 21 Oct 2009 at 15:31, dhbailey wrote: I eagerly await your lambasting Henry Howey for his comment agreeing with my contention that we're all unpaid beta testers only he went one step further and said it was fundamentally dishonest. I am preparing a reply right now explaining why it's an unreasonable position to take, and an unfair accusation. I just don't understand what you think you're accomplishing by attributing to those working at MM nothing but bad intentions. We all know what the road to hell is paved with, but it makes a difference to me if people are acting in good faith. And questioning the integrity and honesty of the only people who can fix Finale seems to me to be quite counterproductive (you think they don't read the list? Maybe they have stopped after being constantly pilloried as liars by people like you). Last of all, I can tell you as a computer programmer that nobody is more concerned about the remaining bugs than the people who are doing the programming. They know far more than you do exactly what the problems are and how bad they are for everyone, and I am absolutely certain the folks working in the guts of Finale would love to be able to magically fix it all so it's just perfect and works exactly the way you want it. In the real world, however, choices have to be made, and I'm certain nobody is happy about having to make these triage decisions. But you can keep whining about not getting your magic ponies all you want. All that will happen is that the people who can actually fix the problems you are encountering will ignore you. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] A naive computer question
Michael Greensill wrote: After downloading the up-date and installing it, I'm left with the Finale 2010 Updater on my desktop. What am I supposed to do with that? Store it somewhere, delete it? I think I have a folder full of those type of things somewhere, but I've never been told what to do with them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com You might consider burning it to a CD so that if you have a meltdown of your harddrive you can install Fin2010 and then run the update patch without having to download it again. Or you can simply delete it. It's no longer needed once you've installed it. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] A naive computer question
Delete On Oct 21, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Michael Greensill wrote: After downloading the up-date and installing it, I'm left with the Finale 2010 Updater on my desktop. What am I supposed to do with that? Store it somewhere, delete it? I think I have a folder full of those type of things somewhere, but I've never been told what to do with them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] A naive computer question
Delete it once you know everything is working, or if you are really anal, burn it to a CD with the rest of your backups so you can get it back if MakeMusic shuts its website, refuses to give out older updates, or if you find you have to downgrade later on. I delete them, myself. Christopher On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 4:42 PM, Michael Greensill wrote: After downloading the up-date and installing it, I'm left with the Finale 2010 Updater on my desktop. What am I supposed to do with that? Store it somewhere, delete it? I think I have a folder full of those type of things somewhere, but I've never been told what to do with them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] A naive computer question
On 21 Oct 2009 at 17:11, Christopher Smith wrote: Delete it once you know everything is working, or if you are really anal, burn it to a CD with the rest of your backups so you can get it back if MakeMusic shuts its website, refuses to give out older updates, or if you find you have to downgrade later on. I delete them, myself. I would not do that, myself, as you then end up having to re-download it should you need to re-install Finale later. I maintain a folder for software updates and keep all the patches and updaters in there. I happen to now have a 1TB external firewire hard drive where I store all this stuff, so I don't need to burn it to CD/DVD any longer. I'd recommend that anybody who has a spare $100 acquire a 1TB external drive. They are just too cheap not to use any more! Hopefully by the time those fill up, we'll be able to buy 20TB hard drives for roughly the same price. ;) -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question
I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question
Prayer? Um, call their tech support. I have a friend who uses SmartMusic (another great MakeMusic product) that has this issue all the time. It loses it's registration On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:25 PM, David McKay wrote: I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 4:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: In the real world, however, choices have to be made, and I'm certain nobody is happy about having to make these triage decisions. Hmm, more to the point, I think, is WHO is making these decisions? When the programmers make them, we get things like TG Tools, the Patterson suite, and Human Playback. When the marketing team makes them, we get a little squirmy, because it seems like spending effort for something WE don't use is wasted effort, and the new features don't work well enough to be used. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Speaking of TGTools, it is rather shocking that MakeMusic would not work with Tobias to ensure that his plugin works properly with Finale. It took months for an update to work with the new dynamics (as I recall) and people are still waiting for an update to get the Chords working properly again. I for one wish MakeMusic would put in a save to previous version feature to at least make sure people with in the last version (2009) can read files created with the new version. Sibelius seems to offer this. But then again, can Sibelius do flash cards? Didn't think so. On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Hmm, more to the point, I think, is WHO is making these decisions? When the programmers make them, we get things like TG Tools, the Patterson suite, and Human Playback. When the marketing team makes them, we get a little squirmy, because it seems like spending effort for something WE don't use is wasted effort, and the new features don't work well enough to be used. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 4:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: And questioning the integrity and honesty of the only people who can fix Finale seems to me to be quite counterproductive (you think they don't read the list? Maybe they have stopped after being constantly pilloried as liars by people like you). Sorry forgot this part. Some of what comes off as dishonesty on the part of MakeMusic is just the way all software companies seem to work. I think they might want rethink parts of their way of working. For example we see the ridiculous web of questions we have to click around and type into on their tech support page as actively discouraging asking technical questions. It may or may not be true, but it comes off like they don't want to hear about our problems. I got a response that I read as evasive from one of the tech support reps once, and I called her on it. I wrote back and pointed out exactly the places in her response that I read as dodging, hedging and condescending and why, and said that I was getting this kind of tone consistently, not just from her, from other reps when I wrote it. I pointed out that I was a long time user with a fair bit of experience and a large number of students, and if there was a bug, just to say, Right! A bug! It's on the list now. with maybe a workaround if I needed one. I noticed a month or two later when I was asking questions again that the tone (of a different rep) had tightened up quite a bit. He didn't use the word bug (may have been expecting too much!) but he acknowledged the problem and said it was high priority. I wonder if my complaint had changed things, but the support staff are much more straight-talking than they used to be. That comes off as honest. Christopher (sorry for all the verbosity, but I'm at home recovering from flu and have itchy typing fingers.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question
You'll have to be more specific with platform, OS version and Finale version. I hear on the MakeMusic website there are tons of questions about this. Sorry I paid no attention because it all works with me. Christopher On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 5:25 PM, David McKay wrote: I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Since version 4, released in 2005, Sibelius has included a worksheet creator. Flash cards are included in this. 2009/10/22 Eric Dannewitz ericd...@jazz-sax.com But then again, can Sibelius do flash cards? Didn't think so. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On 21 Oct 2009 at 17:37, Christopher Smith wrote: On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 4:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: In the real world, however, choices have to be made, and I'm certain nobody is happy about having to make these triage decisions. Hmm, more to the point, I think, is WHO is making these decisions? When the programmers make them, we get things like TG Tools, the Patterson suite, and Human Playback. When the marketing team makes them, we get a little squirmy, because it seems like spending effort for something WE don't use is wasted effort, and the new features don't work well enough to be used. It's the age-old conflict between the programmers and the marketers. If the latter weren't out there promoting the product, working with users and figuring out what people need/want and what is going to be most lucrative in the market as a whole, the programmers wouldn't have anything to do. On the other hand, without the programmers, the marketers wouldn't have anything to sell. My outside view of the situation (which is purely speculative) is that both parties are doing their best, but because of the management decision several years ago to start yearly updates (before about Finale 97 weren't the updates every couple of years or so?) they are now locked in a cycle that doesn't allow them the time to fix the accumulated problems. New or revised features have to be implemented in order to sell the program, and those only exacerbate the problems already present in the codebase. I don't know how you get out of this kind of death spiral, absent a sugar daddy to come in and finance a major project to fix the problems. And, of course, I could be completely wrong about all of this because I don't have any insider information about what's actually going on a MM. But it seems to me to be plausible and doesn't suggest that anybody is acting in bad faith, just that they are in a situation that makes it hard to satisfy all the competing demands on them. Of course, one can always blame management... -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
I don't mean to be acting as an apologist for MakeMusic, but I just don't think that people are asking reasonable questions here. On 21 Oct 2009 at 14:44, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Speaking of TGTools, it is rather shocking that MakeMusic would not work with Tobias to ensure that his plugin works properly with Finale. And what makes you think they haven't? My guess is that Tobias is a beta tester so he knows what's going on. I'd also guess that as one of the most important plugin developers he has no trouble getting through to the programming team to discuss issues. If the problems haven't been fixed, that tells me: 1. the problems are quite difficult, OR 2. Tobias has not given it full attention yet. 3. both (#2 could be triggered by #1, for instance) I'm not saying any of these alternatives are the case, but I don't see that it's proper to blame MM for Tobias's lack of an updated release. It took months for an update to work with the new dynamics (as I recall) and people are still waiting for an update to get the Chords working properly again. I don't see what the justification is for blaming MM for this. Even if Tobias only got the new version at the same time everyone else did, at that point, it's all on him to revise his plugin to work with the new version. Clearly, MM can help him to make the process as smooth as possible, but at a certain point, updating the plugin is the responsibility of the plugin developer, not of MM. Obviously, in order to maintain an active stable of plugin developers MM has to pay attention to them and try not to introduce changes into Finale that break existing plugins any more than is necessary. But have we heard from any plugin developers that MM has been doing this? Perhaps we wouldn't, as they can't badmouth MM without possibly endangering their insider access. I for one wish MakeMusic would put in a save to previous version feature to at least make sure people with in the last version (2009) can read files created with the new version. Sibelius seems to offer this. I am sure that if implementing this were easy without major and extensive changes to the codebase, MM would implement it. Sibelius has one major advantage over MM and that is that their codebase is about a decade younger than MM's and probably has a lot less cruft in it to handle legacy issues. As a non-programmer, you might be surprised at how much a difference that can make. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Breaking News! I just downloaded the updater and completed the installation in about 6 min. Things are looking up .. Dean On Oct 21, 2009, at 3:12 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 21 Oct 2009 at 17:37, Christopher Smith wrote: On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 4:59 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: In the real world, however, choices have to be made, and I'm certain nobody is happy about having to make these triage decisions. Hmm, more to the point, I think, is WHO is making these decisions? When the programmers make them, we get things like TG Tools, the Patterson suite, and Human Playback. When the marketing team makes them, we get a little squirmy, because it seems like spending effort for something WE don't use is wasted effort, and the new features don't work well enough to be used. It's the age-old conflict between the programmers and the marketers. If the latter weren't out there promoting the product, working with users and figuring out what people need/want and what is going to be most lucrative in the market as a whole, the programmers wouldn't have anything to do. On the other hand, without the programmers, the marketers wouldn't have anything to sell. My outside view of the situation (which is purely speculative) is that both parties are doing their best, but because of the management decision several years ago to start yearly updates (before about Finale 97 weren't the updates every couple of years or so?) they are now locked in a cycle that doesn't allow them the time to fix the accumulated problems. New or revised features have to be implemented in order to sell the program, and those only exacerbate the problems already present in the codebase. I don't know how you get out of this kind of death spiral, absent a sugar daddy to come in and finance a major project to fix the problems. And, of course, I could be completely wrong about all of this because I don't have any insider information about what's actually going on a MM. But it seems to me to be plausible and doesn't suggest that anybody is acting in bad faith, just that they are in a situation that makes it hard to satisfy all the competing demands on them. Of course, one can always blame management... -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Speaking of which, I have tried (gently) rattling Tobias' cage about updating the plugins that are broken in 2010. Can I get a few others to communicate with him? I am eagerly awaiting his update, so that 2010 can become fully functional for me. Thanks to anyone who can take the trouble to do this. Chuck On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Speaking of TGTools, it is rather shocking that MakeMusic would not work with Tobias to ensure that his plugin works properly with Finale. It took months for an update to work with the new dynamics (as I recall) and people are still waiting for an update to get the Chords working properly again. I for one wish MakeMusic would put in a save to previous version feature to at least make sure people with in the last version (2009) can read files created with the new version. Sibelius seems to offer this. But then again, can Sibelius do flash cards? Didn't think so. On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Hmm, more to the point, I think, is WHO is making these decisions? When the programmers make them, we get things like TG Tools, the Patterson suite, and Human Playback. When the marketing team makes them, we get a little squirmy, because it seems like spending effort for something WE don't use is wasted effort, and the new features don't work well enough to be used. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question
There was a thread back a while ago that addressed this. Seems to only happen to those who use Microsoft's VISTA operating system. There is a work around. Check the backlog of messages or go to the MM forums and search for it just in case tech support does not answer back as quickly as you might like them to. ___ J. Scott Jones Band/Orchestra Director/Freelance Trumpet Player-Teacher/Music Engraver On Oct 21, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Prayer? Um, call their tech support. I have a friend who uses SmartMusic (another great MakeMusic product) that has this issue all the time. It loses it's registration On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:25 PM, David McKay wrote: I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading question
Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Breaking News! I just downloaded the updater and completed the installation in about 6 min. Things are looking up .. Dean O OK - here's a question for all of you folks that seem to know what goes on inside his magic metal box: I DL'd the update the first day - took quite a long time, but I was leaving home anyway, no problem. I haven't run the update yet, as I was in the middle of a touchy project for today. Should I run the huge Tuesday update or DL the new, lean, Thursday update and run it instead? Or are they the same file? RBH ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading question
On 21 Oct 2009 at 19:10, Ray Horton wrote: Should I run the huge Tuesday update or DL the new, lean, Thursday update and run it instead? Or are they the same file? I would say that it's 99.99% sure that it's the same file, and the only difference in the download time is either that fewer people were attempting the download on Tuesday, or that MM contracted for some help in serving up the downloads (such as using Akamai's load- balancing services). I think it's highly improbable that the later update is a smaller file. I think that if it were a different file, there would have been notification that MM had updated it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading question
On Wed Oct 21, at WednesdayOct 21 7:10 PM, Ray Horton wrote: Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Breaking News! I just downloaded the updater and completed the installation in about 6 min. Things are looking up .. Dean O OK - here's a question for all of you folks that seem to know what goes on inside his magic metal box: I DL'd the update the first day - took quite a long time, but I was leaving home anyway, no problem. I haven't run the update yet, as I was in the middle of a touchy project for today. Should I run the huge Tuesday update or DL the new, lean, Thursday update and run it instead? Or are they the same file? Same file. It downloaded about a hundred times faster for me next day, probably because I had about a hundredth of the peers downloading it at the same time as I had the previous day. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question
Thanks for the advice. Problem solved. Had the same problem when I bought a computer about 2 years ago, but totally forgot the solution. Sign in as admin solved the problem. David McKay 2009/10/22 Scott Jones c...@mindspring.com There was a thread back a while ago that addressed this. Seems to only happen to those who use Microsoft's VISTA operating system. There is a work around. Check the backlog of messages or go to the MM forums and search for it just in case tech support does not answer back as quickly as you might like them to. ___ J. Scott Jones Band/Orchestra Director/Freelance Trumpet Player-Teacher/Music Engraver On Oct 21, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Prayer? Um, call their tech support. I have a friend who uses SmartMusic (another great MakeMusic product) that has this issue all the time. It loses it's registration On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:25 PM, David McKay wrote: I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- www.gontroppo.blogspot.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Another naive computer question
Registration requires Administrator Level execution. By default, Vista does not Afford Administrator Level as a securoty measure. Right-click the Finale icon and select Run as Administrator. Roger -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Scott Jones Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 6:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Another naive computer question There was a thread back a while ago that addressed this. Seems to only happen to those who use Microsoft's VISTA operating system. There is a work around. Check the backlog of messages or go to the MM forums and search for it just in case tech support does not answer back as quickly as you might like them to. ___ J. Scott Jones Band/Orchestra Director/Freelance Trumpet Player-Teacher/Music Engraver On Oct 21, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Prayer? Um, call their tech support. I have a friend who uses SmartMusic (another great MakeMusic product) that has this issue all the time. It loses it's registration On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:25 PM, David McKay wrote: I have problems registering the program. Always have had. I assume that I am allowed to have it installed on my desktop and my laptop, but when I try to register it on my laptop I either get an error message, or I get a message sayign registration successful, but then still get the message sayign that I have to register in 30 days when I open the program. Any suggestions? David McKay ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
On Oct 21, 2009, at 3:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Speaking of TGTools, it is rather shocking that MakeMusic would not work with Tobias to ensure that his plugin works properly with Finale. And what makes you think they haven't? My guess is that Tobias is a beta tester so he knows what's going on. I'd also guess that as one of the most important plugin developers he has no trouble getting through to the programming team to discuss issues. If the problems haven't been fixed, that tells me: 1. the problems are quite difficult, OR 2. Tobias has not given it full attention yet. 3. both (#2 could be triggered by #1, for instance) I'm not saying any of these alternatives are the case, but I don't see that it's proper to blame MM for Tobias's lack of an updated release. It took months for an update to work with the new dynamics (as I recall) and people are still waiting for an update to get the Chords working properly again. I don't see what the justification is for blaming MM for this. Even if Tobias only got the new version at the same time everyone else did, at that point, it's all on him to revise his plugin to work with the new version. Clearly, MM can help him to make the process as smooth as possible, but at a certain point, updating the plugin is the responsibility of the plugin developer, not of MM. Obviously, in order to maintain an active stable of plugin developers MM has to pay attention to them and try not to introduce changes into Finale that break existing plugins any more than is necessary. But have we heard from any plugin developers that MM has been doing this? Perhaps we wouldn't, as they can't badmouth MM without possibly endangering their insider access. Again, this points to MakeMusic. One of their most important plugin developers (or the best one IMHO) doesn't have his plugins ready for the release of program? That would be like Apple shipping a new iPod and having iTunes not work fully with it. Seems like there is no incentive for Tobias to update his plugins and/ or there was no communication between him and MM that the next version of Finale was going to break his plugin. Again.The same thing happened for Finale 2009, and there was about 5 or 6 months until Tobias got around to fixing it for the full version of TGTools. I think the Align/ Move worked in the limited bundle that was included in Finale 2009. You'd think that MakeMusic would pay attention to detail... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading question
David W. Fenton wrote: On 21 Oct 2009 at 19:10, Ray Horton wrote: Should I run the huge Tuesday update or DL the new, lean, Thursday update and run it instead? Or are they the same file? I would say that it's 99.99% sure that it's the same file, and the only difference in the download time is either that fewer people were attempting the download on Tuesday, or that MM contracted for some help in serving up the downloads (such as using Akamai's load- balancing services). I think it's highly improbable that the later update is a smaller file. I think that if it were a different file, there would have been notification that MM had updated it. Same file. It downloaded about a hundred times faster for me next day, probably because I had about a hundredth of the peers downloading it at the same time as I had the previous day. Christopher --- Thanks David and Christopher. I'll install it with bells on. RBH ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Another naive computer question
On 21 Oct 2009 at 20:41, Roger Cain wrote: Registration requires Administrator Level execution. By default, Vista does not Afford Administrator Level as a securoty measure. Right-click the Finale icon and select Run as Administrator. That won't necessarily fix the problem -- it depends on whether or not the registration process is performed by the Finale executable, or is handed off to a different module. If the former, RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR will do the job. If it's the latter, it won't, as the other module will get the default user-level security token, not the Finale executable's admin-level security token. If that's the case, then it's a design error in Finale, perhaps because the version in question predates the release of Vista. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
This is a bad example. Apple controls all the pieces here, MM cannot force Tobias to spend time updating the full version of TGTools. On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Again, this points to MakeMusic. One of their most important plugin developers (or the best one IMHO) doesn't have his plugins ready for the release of program? That would be like Apple shipping a new iPod and having iTunes not work fully with it. Allen Fisher Founder and Principal Developer Fisher Art and Technology al...@fisherartandtech.com i...@fisherartandtech.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Maintenance Update downloading
Allen Fisher wrote: This is a bad example. Apple controls all the pieces here, MM cannot force Tobias to spend time updating the full version of TGTools. Force? No. Entice? Probably. cd On Oct 21, 2009, at 8:48 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Again, this points to MakeMusic. One of their most important plugin developers (or the best one IMHO) doesn't have his plugins ready for the release of program? That would be like Apple shipping a new iPod and having iTunes not work fully with it. -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
