Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Michael Edwards]

  Hallo, Jef; thanks for the information you gave.
  You may quite well be right that I lack an understanding of the 
fundamental basis on which Finale works.  Do you know if there are any 
of the help web pages that explain this basis?
  So far I have found various help pages that explain how to solve 
particular problems, with varying degrees of clarity (to me, at least), 
but they don't really give much information about that underlying 
structure of the software.
  Such a deeper understanding might help me solve problems more 
easily, so any pointers to where I can find this would be helpful.
  Thank you.

Michael Edwards.

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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[SN jef chippewa]

hi michael, the issue you mention is not a "problem", it is design. 
think of notation software as a digital grid, not blank 2D paper. 
the extra staff/staves you add are present in the entire document 
(i.e. all measures/systems) but can also be hidden selectively in an 
instant.  there are various approaches to hiding, depending on the 
needs of your music (through the staff tool, selecting handles on the 
page, or staff styles in various ways).

staff groups are what you need to check out for extending the bracket 
over all staves of your piano instrument.  this needs to be redefined 
manually because the extra staves you add are not considered part of 
the piano internally.  i have been doing this for years for other 
reasons (extra staff above the grand staff for objects or percussion 
instruments that the pianist plays) with no problems, but it requires 
shifting one's perspective on what the notation sofware is/does and 
how it is structured, in comparison to notating on paper, where i can 
add anything for as short or long a passage as i wish.


>   My issue is with piano music, and there are a few pieces I have
>which will briefly require 3 or 4 staves, although I use only 2 for
>maybe 95 percent of systems in piano music.  (And nothing I write
>requires more than two staves for the entire piece.)
>   I think I found a utility for adding a staff, but there were two
>problems with it: Finale added the extra staff for all systems in the
>piece, not just the one or two where I wanted it; and the curly bracket
>at the start didn't lengthen to cover all staves, but just remained
>covering two staves it considered to be the original ones, and not the
>extra one or two.
>   Are there easy solutions to this, please?
>   Also, does creating an extra staff just for a couple of systems
>have implications if, as I edit the piece, repagination occurs and the
>distribution of bars on particular staves changes?  Do I have to plan
>for that, or will Finale look after it if the bars do later get
>rearranged automatically (or I rearrange them manually)?

-- 

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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Michael Edwards]

  Perhaps I can't comment directly on this issue as it's already 
emerged, but it does relate to an issue I expect to come up with my own 
work, but I just hadn't yet gathered what seemed like enough details to 
actually ask about it here yet.  But perhaps I might try to briefly 
indicate my problem, and hope someone can please help me, since the 
topic has come up.

  My issue is with piano music, and there are a few pieces I have 
which will briefly require 3 or 4 staves, although I use only 2 for 
maybe 95 percent of systems in piano music.  (And nothing I write 
requires more than two staves for the entire piece.)
  I think I found a utility for adding a staff, but there were two 
problems with it: Finale added the extra staff for all systems in the 
piece, not just the one or two where I wanted it; and the curly bracket 
at the start didn't lengthen to cover all staves, but just remained 
covering two staves it considered to be the original ones, and not the 
extra one or two.
  Are there easy solutions to this, please?
  Also, does creating an extra staff just for a couple of systems 
have implications if, as I edit the piece, repagination occurs and the 
distribution of bars on particular staves changes?  Do I have to plan 
for that, or will Finale look after it if the bars do later get 
rearranged automatically (or I rearrange them manually)?

  And, about previous suggestions already given in this thread: 
suggestions were given to rename a part to another instrument - but 
would that cause the playback to switch to the renamed instrument, or 
would it continue to play back as the original instrument?  (As I think 
I once said before, correct notation is paramount for me, but I do want 
to preserve accurate playback if that can be catered for in addition.)
  And also a distinction was made between extra staves for a single 
instrument and a "group" as solutions to Dennis's problem, and I don't 
really understand that.  I've read a bit about it in the help pages, but 
didn't find it very clear.
  Would either of these matters already mentioned in the thread help 
my problem, as stated above?
  Thank you.

Michael, Edwards.


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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

jef,

Thanks for the info.

I found the file on Windows, but don't have any version of SQL installed. And
yes, the staff name abbreviations are always needing to be changed.

It would seem like such an easy addition -- a 'number of staves' column.

Workarounds, then.

Thanks again,
Dennis




On Sat, October 14, 2017 8:43 pm, SN jef chippewa wrote:
>
> i think the max # of staves for a single instrument is 3 (organ).
> these things are defined in the instrument database, which i fiddled
> with several years back.  on mac, you had to ctl-click the programme
> icon, as i recall.  and select "show package contents".  somewhere
> there was a file that could be opened and edited with certain
> database software programmes (like mysql).  i did it to correct
> errors in finale's databases -- i think it was that bass trombone was
> set as a transposing instrument, and some other small things that i
> felt needed to be corrected.  also i wanted to redefine the
> abbreviated names.  but since this would have to be done for each new
> version of the programme, i decided it was easier to live with the
> errors, since most of them i would almost never, if at all, come
> across, and to manually edit abbr. staff names...
>
> but if you decide to go for it, you will need to edit the database
> (appearance) and ensembles definitions.
>
> in the case of one piece with a 6-stave piano part, i would *never*
> bother with these kinds of hacks, easiest to just define it as a
> group.


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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[SN jef chippewa]

i think the max # of staves for a single instrument is 3 (organ). 
these things are defined in the instrument database, which i fiddled 
with several years back.  on mac, you had to ctl-click the programme 
icon, as i recall.  and select "show package contents".  somewhere 
there was a file that could be opened and edited with certain 
database software programmes (like mysql).  i did it to correct 
errors in finale's databases -- i think it was that bass trombone was 
set as a transposing instrument, and some other small things that i 
felt needed to be corrected.  also i wanted to redefine the 
abbreviated names.  but since this would have to be done for each new 
version of the programme, i decided it was easier to live with the 
errors, since most of them i would almost never, if at all, come 
across, and to manually edit abbr. staff names...

but if you decide to go for it, you will need to edit the database 
(appearance) and ensembles definitions.

in the case of one piece with a 6-stave piano part, i would *never* 
bother with these kinds of hacks, easiest to just define it as a 
group.


>On Sat, October 14, 2017 3:57 am, Ryszard Pusz wrote:
>>  Dennis would a marimba solve the problem, as that comes on a double staff?
>
>Yes, kluges are possible -- but I'm asking for the method to create new
>multi-staff instruments for my default file that automatically show up like
>the piano does with two staves below its name on the score manager. The
>cimbalom isn't the only one. There are numerous instruments (including some of
>my own design) that I'd like to have as two- or three-staff defaults. (I have
>a piano piece on 6 staves and would love to have that show as a single
>instrument.)
>
>So does anyone know where the configuration files for multi-staff 
>instruments is found?

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise  |  http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Sat, October 14, 2017 3:57 am, Ryszard Pusz wrote:
> Dennis would a marimba solve the problem, as that comes on a double staff?

Yes, kluges are possible -- but I'm asking for the method to create new
multi-staff instruments for my default file that automatically show up like
the piano does with two staves below its name on the score manager. The
cimbalom isn't the only one. There are numerous instruments (including some of
my own design) that I'd like to have as two- or three-staff defaults. (I have
a piano piece on 6 staves and would love to have that show as a single
instrument.)

So does anyone know where the configuration files for multi-staff instruments
is found?

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Ryszard Pusz]

Dennis would a marimba solve the problem, as that comes on a double staff?

Ryszard
___
On 14/10/2017, at 11:26 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:

> On Fri, October 13, 2017 1:21 pm, Christopher Smith wrote:
>> Can’t you just add a piano, then rename it to “cimbalom”? That seems way
>> easier than digging into the configuration documents.
> 
> You're right, of course, but then I have to un-name the piano from piano 1,
> etc. Since this will come up again (I have a few commissions for these folks),
> I'd like for it to be in my template.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
>>> On Fri Oct 13, at FridayOct 13 1:11 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Finale 25 Windows 10
>>> 
>>> This has got to be simple, but I've never done multiple staves except by
>>> using
>>> groups or calling on Finale's built-in multi-staff instruments (piano, harp,
>>> etc.).
>>> 
>>> I want to add a cimbalom as a multi-staff instrument rather than as a group.
>>> 
>>> I can find nothing about how to do create a multi-staff instrument, nor a
>>> configuration file with this information ... must be just overlooking
>>> something obvious.
>>> 
>>> Help?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dennis
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Fri, October 13, 2017 1:21 pm, Christopher Smith wrote:
> Can’t you just add a piano, then rename it to “cimbalom”? That seems way
> easier than digging into the configuration documents.

You're right, of course, but then I have to un-name the piano from piano 1,
etc. Since this will come up again (I have a few commissions for these folks),
I'd like for it to be in my template.

Dennis


>> On Fri Oct 13, at FridayOct 13 1:11 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Finale 25 Windows 10
>>
>> This has got to be simple, but I've never done multiple staves except by
>> using
>> groups or calling on Finale's built-in multi-staff instruments (piano, harp,
>> etc.).
>>
>> I want to add a cimbalom as a multi-staff instrument rather than as a group.
>>
>> I can find nothing about how to do create a multi-staff instrument, nor a
>> configuration file with this information ... must be just overlooking
>> something obvious.
>>
>> Help?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
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>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
>
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Re: [Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Christopher Smith]

Can’t you just add a piano, then rename it to “cimbalom”? That seems way easier 
than digging into the configuration documents.

Christopher

> On Fri Oct 13, at FridayOct 13 1:11 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Finale 25 Windows 10
> 
> This has got to be simple, but I've never done multiple staves except by using
> groups or calling on Finale's built-in multi-staff instruments (piano, harp,
> etc.).
> 
> I want to add a cimbalom as a multi-staff instrument rather than as a group.
> 
> I can find nothing about how to do create a multi-staff instrument, nor a
> configuration file with this information ... must be just overlooking
> something obvious.
> 
> Help?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dennis
> 
> 
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> 
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[Finale] Create multi-staff instrument

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

Hi all,

Finale 25 Windows 10

This has got to be simple, but I've never done multiple staves except by using
groups or calling on Finale's built-in multi-staff instruments (piano, harp,
etc.).

I want to add a cimbalom as a multi-staff instrument rather than as a group.

I can find nothing about how to do create a multi-staff instrument, nor a
configuration file with this information ... must be just overlooking
something obvious.

Help?

Thanks,
Dennis


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