Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 14 Aug 2006 at 11:45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 17:41 -0400, James Gilbert wrote: > > Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the > > first place? > > True, if all we expected of FINALE was purely notation; no > conversions, no links from parts to the score, etc. then it could run > in less memory. Every time some fuctionality is added, additional > run-time memory is required for the additional lines of code in the > application. That's an awfully naïve view of the way computer applications work. The architecture of the newly added features will determine whether or not they require more memory, not the number of newly added lines of code (which are present in the compiled executable, anyway). If new features are implemented as modules that are loaded as needed, they won't increase the memory footprint until called. > I believe that Finale NotePad runs with much lower RAM requirements, > if memory is a greater issue than enhancements. > > If your complaint is that they do not make it clear before you > purchase, then I agree, but then 90% of business software on the > market today falls short in the disclosure of performance > requirements. But that's just my humble opinion.. He's not complaining about performance. I doubt he was expecting blazing performance installing on a machine that met only the minimum requirements. The problem is that MM says it will install on his machine and the installer won't do it. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
Oh yeah ... even with 512 MB, I don't think there would be much happiness in playing back GPO sounds. Dean On Aug 13, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.08.2006 James Gilbert wrote: Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? Sooo much RAM? You must be joking. The standard these days is at least 512 MB. I think Finale's requirements are low if anything. However, if you really think you have 256 MB I don't know why Finale doesn't seem to recognize it. But I guess you are on Windows, and I don't know much about windows... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
At 8/14/2006 11:45 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >If your complaint is that they do not make it clear before you purchase, >then I agree, but then 90% of business software on the market today falls >short in the disclosure of performance requirements. But that's just my >humble opinion.. Probably one of the few places Microsoft is far better than others. Vista requires 512MB RAM. I installed it on a system with only 384MB. No problems with the install and no problems running it, even with a memory hog like AutoCAD. It does run slowly, I assume because of all the Virtual Memory swapping stuff. Phil Daley < AutoDesk > http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
> On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 17:41 -0400, James Gilbert wrote: > Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first > place? True, if all we expected of FINALE was purely notation; no conversions, no links from parts to the score, etc. then it could run in less memory. Every time some fuctionality is added, additional run-time memory is required for the additional lines of code in the application. I believe that Finale NotePad runs with much lower RAM requirements, if memory is a greater issue than enhancements. If your complaint is that they do not make it clear before you purchase, then I agree, but then 90% of business software on the market today falls short in the disclosure of performance requirements. But that's just my humble opinion.. Richard ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
At 8/14/2006 06:43 AM, dhbailey wrote: >Since James' machine appears to meet the stated RAM requirements, I'm >beginning to wonder if one of the following is actually the case: >1) in typical fashion (typical of programs more than just Finale) the >actual problem is something else and the wrong error message has popped up; >2) James misread the error message and it was actually referring to >available hard-disk space; >3) James was trying to install the Garritan stuff, which may require >more RAM to be available (in addition to more hard disk space); > >Perhaps he could be more exact in the wording of the error message? Also, he could try boosting the Virtual Memory setting. Phil Daley < AutoDesk > http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
David W. Fenton wrote: On 13 Aug 2006 at 19:30, Tyler Turner wrote: --- "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: None of that makes any sense. Why would an installer check the RAM available when it's *running* rather than the *installed* RAM? Perhaps you're right, though, if the system RAM grabbed by the onboard devices is showing up as unavailable. I don't know how those kinds of things work, since I'd never buy a system that is so poorly designed as to be using system RAM for those purposes. I believe if you look at the amount of memory reported by Windows as being installed on the system, system memory that has been dedicated to video will not be reported. So a system with 256MB of Ram with integrated video that uses 32MB from this will only report that it has 224MB of memory. If the program isn't installing and is reporting that the computer doesn't have enough memory, this would be my guess as to what's going on. James has already reported that this does not apply to his system, that there are no devices utilizing system RAM, so it's not the reason Finale is refusing to install. I have no experience with such machines, as I would never buy one or allow one of my clients to buy one. Since James' machine appears to meet the stated RAM requirements, I'm beginning to wonder if one of the following is actually the case: 1) in typical fashion (typical of programs more than just Finale) the actual problem is something else and the wrong error message has popped up; 2) James misread the error message and it was actually referring to available hard-disk space; 3) James was trying to install the Garritan stuff, which may require more RAM to be available (in addition to more hard disk space); Perhaps he could be more exact in the wording of the error message? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
--- "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And in any event, your last sentence points out the > absurdity of > interpreting the 256MB requirement as meaning FREE > RAM, since the > amount of free RAM depends entirely on what's > running already. When did I ever suggest in the least that it did? The only thing I've ever stated is that the installer looks at the reported amount of installed memory. My only guesses here are that either the system isn't really reporting 256MB of memory or the installer is really expecting a larger amount of installed memory to be reported. I've never thought this had anything to do with how much memory is currently being used. If I had any other guess, it would be that perhaps the installer is trying to make sure there's enough room for Finale GPO... Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 20:33, Tyler Turner wrote: > But keep in mind that the > memory usage is going to depend on how much RAM you > have installed. On computers that have more memory, > Windows XP will let Finale use a greater portion of it > (assuming it's not being used by another app). After > working with the program for a while, the amount of > RAM used can vary by hundreds of megabytes, depending > on the machine. My machine has 768MBs of RAM and so I don't think that the RAM reported for Finale 2003 and Finale 2005 is going to be less than what they'd use on a machine with 256MBs of RAM. And in any event, your last sentence points out the absurdity of interpreting the 256MB requirement as meaning FREE RAM, since the amount of free RAM depends entirely on what's running already. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
--- James Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The MakeMusic site says NOTHING about FREE memory, > only that your system > should have 256meg installed. If you right-click My Computer and choose Properties, what does it state the amount of RAM is? Thanks, Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
--- "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There are many things that eat up memory. The > > soundfont is loaded into memory. . . . > > Not if you're not using it. > I'll have to check again, but I believe this isn't the case. Essentially, as long as the soundfont file and the aiolib.dll file are in their correct places, these will be loaded upon running Finale. > > . . . Plug-ins take up > > memory. . . . > > Not when you're not running them, and even then, > only a very small > amount. Again, I'm pretty sure this isn't true. Removing plug-ins from the plug-ins folder decreases the amount of memory Finale takes to run. > > > . . . The application is going to load things into > > memory to speed up access to them. . . . > > If Finale 2006 runs just fine on this James's > system, then I can't > see why Finale 2006 would not. Can anyone with both > 2006 and 2007 > profile memory usage? Perhaps the code to support > linked parts has > vastly bloated Finale. This is an installer issue, right? It's basically checking to see how much memory is reported as installed? I think Finale 2007 includes new latin percussion soundfonts as well as new plug-ins that would take some additional memory. This could have been enough to make them decide to up the requirement. > > > . . . There are a lot of > > graphics being thrown around here, . . . . > > You of all people should know that this is much less > an issue of > system RAM than it is of the graphics card installed > on the machine. Yes, but the actual Finale data that it's keeping track of? > > > . . . .and part of Finale > > 2006 getting much faster at redrawing probably > > included making more use of system RAM. . . . > > Perhaps. But James says Finale 2006 runs just fine > on his system, so > that makes this point completely irrelevant. Not if we're talking about small changes that pushed the requirement up to the next level. After all, you make a requirement for the amount of memory that's going to safely run the software - not the bare minimum to keep it working reliably. We typically see packaging reporte requirements for 128 MB or 256MB... how often do we see a requirement for 206.5MB? It's just normal for companies to express requirements in amounts that match typical configurations. > > > . . . Keep in mind > > that Windows XP is supposed to be given 128MB of > > memory, and so MakeMusic has to require an amount > that > > takes this into consideration. . . . > > The WinXP RAM minimum does not mean that WinXP takes > over 128MBs of > RAM, it is only the basic amount of RAM that is > needed to boot the OS > and run an application or two. Nevertheless, MakeMusic is going to consider the stated OS requirements when it makes its own requirements. > > > . . . Looking at Finale in > > the task manager right now, it's using about 110MB > of > > memory. That doesn't strike me as being extreme. > > Maybe not, but I just loaded up a large file in > Finale 2003 and it's > taking only 23MBs. The same file loaded into the > Finale 2005 demo > takes up 57MBs. If each version of Finale is > doubling the RAM needs, > that would be 120MBs for Finale 2006, and 240MBs for > Finale 2007, but > it would be ridiculous to assume such a doubling > with every version. > > What version of Finale do you show using 110MBs? I'm looking at Finale 2007. But keep in mind that the memory usage is going to depend on how much RAM you have installed. On computers that have more memory, Windows XP will let Finale use a greater portion of it (assuming it's not being used by another app). After working with the program for a while, the amount of RAM used can vary by hundreds of megabytes, depending on the machine. Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 19:38, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > I've never ever seen any pieces of software list system requirements > > in that way and assume you'll understand they mean *free* RAM > > instead of *installed* RAM. You may be right that that's what they > > mean, though, in which case, they should say so explicitly. > > Well, isn't it assumed that it means free Ram? I've never made such an assumption, as free RAM is going to be completely variable, which means the installer could run at one point and not run at another. That would result in lots of tech support calls. > . . . It is confusing though. > http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/productinfo/systemreqs/ Says > 256Megs of Ram as well. One I hear "256Megs of Ram" I hear "256MBs of RAM chips installed in the computer." If someone means FREE RAM, they should say "256MBs of MEMORY" or they should specify AVAILABLE MEMORY. > http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/systemreqs.html And this says > 320Megs. So, if I have a system with just that I can run it? > > While I agree that RAM is cheap and that adding it is an > > excellent way to speed up an old system, additional RAM actually > > has very little effect on how fast *Finale* runs, because it's > > not a RAM-hungry program in the first place. > > I think we have had this debate > before, and Finale does run better with more Ram. . .. Almost every program does, but some programs benefit more. Also, programs like Finale with low relatively resource requirements will plateau sooner and get no further benefit from additional RAM. > . . . I think it was a > discussion about using a Ram disk for temp files or something of the > like. RAM disks on Windows have never made any sense whatsoever because Windows always managed virtual memory and disk caching better than the old Mac OS. I don't know if under OS X disk caching and VM are now comparable to what Windows had in 1993. > > Secondly, if the upgrade was bought by someone who is poor on the > > basis of the system requirements listed at the URL above, then I > > think it's reasonable for that purchaser to be upset to find out > > that it means FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM. > > > > I still don't believe that's the case, though, as it would make no > > sense, as you'd sometimes be able to run the installer and sometimes > > not. Secondly, Windows calculates free RAM using the swap file, so > > changing your swap file size could allow you to end up with the > > system reporting more than 256MBs of free RAM, even though you > > haven't added any actual RAM to the system. > > > > It just doesn't make any sense to me for MM to mean FREE RAM instead > > of INSTALLED RAM. > > I suppose you can argue that running photoshop with just 320Megs of > actual ram is possible, but who really does it? Again, $20-$40 and the > problem is solved (IE: more RAM). That's not the point. If Adobe says Photoshop will run with 320MBs, then it had better install and run, however slowly. In this case, MM is saying it will install and run with 256MBs (however slowly), but it's refusing to install on a machine that really has 256MBs of RAM (with no blocks of RAM permanently allocated to video processing/etc.). Either the installer is broken, or MM really *does* mean 256MBs of FREE RAM. In either case, MM has a problem, one that the end user shouldn't have to solve by buying more RAM. The end user should be able to trust what the software maker says, and in this case, either MM is untrustworthy (by using misleading terminology) or the installer is broken. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 19:30, Tyler Turner wrote: > --- "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > None of that makes any sense. Why would an installer > > check the RAM > > available when it's *running* rather than the > > *installed* RAM? > > Perhaps you're right, though, if the system RAM > > grabbed by the > > onboard devices is showing up as unavailable. I > > don't know how those > > kinds of things work, since I'd never buy a system > > that is so poorly > > designed as to be using system RAM for those > > purposes. > > I believe if you look at the amount of memory reported > by Windows as being installed on the system, system > memory that has been dedicated to video will not be > reported. So a system with 256MB of Ram with > integrated video that uses 32MB from this will only > report that it has 224MB of memory. If the program > isn't installing and is reporting that the computer > doesn't have enough memory, this would be my guess as > to what's going on. James has already reported that this does not apply to his system, that there are no devices utilizing system RAM, so it's not the reason Finale is refusing to install. I have no experience with such machines, as I would never buy one or allow one of my clients to buy one. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
David W. Fenton wrote: I've never ever seen any pieces of software list system requirements in that way and assume you'll understand they mean *free* RAM instead of *installed* RAM. You may be right that that's what they mean, though, in which case, they should say so explicitly. Well, isn't it assumed that it means free Ram? It is confusing though. http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/productinfo/systemreqs/ Says 256Megs of Ram as well. http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/systemreqs.html And this says 320Megs. So, if I have a system with just that I can run it? While I agree that RAM is cheap and that adding it is an excellent way to speed up an old system, additional RAM actually has very little effect on how fast *Finale* runs, because it's not a RAM- hungry program in the first place. I think we have had this debate before, and Finale does run better with more Ram. I think it was a discussion about using a Ram disk for temp files or something of the like. Secondly, if the upgrade was bought by someone who is poor on the basis of the system requirements listed at the URL above, then I think it's reasonable for that purchaser to be upset to find out that it means FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM. I still don't believe that's the case, though, as it would make no sense, as you'd sometimes be able to run the installer and sometimes not. Secondly, Windows calculates free RAM using the swap file, so changing your swap file size could allow you to end up with the system reporting more than 256MBs of free RAM, even though you haven't added any actual RAM to the system. It just doesn't make any sense to me for MM to mean FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM. I suppose you can argue that running photoshop with just 320Megs of actual ram is possible, but who really does it? Again, $20-$40 and the problem is solved (IE: more RAM). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 18:48, Tyler Turner wrote: > --- James Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I still want to know why a notation program has to > > use SOOO much memory to > > notate music. (I can understand why playback or GPO > > or the like might need > > a lot more, but why can't those be loaded in only if > > needed instead of > > bloating the whole software? It seems like bad > > programming). Oh, my sound > > and video card are separate from the system RAM. > > There are many things that eat up memory. The > soundfont is loaded into memory. . . . Not if you're not using it. > . . . Plug-ins take up > memory. . . . Not when you're not running them, and even then, only a very small amount. > . . . The application is going to load things into > memory to speed up access to them. . . . If Finale 2006 runs just fine on this James's system, then I can't see why Finale 2006 would not. Can anyone with both 2006 and 2007 profile memory usage? Perhaps the code to support linked parts has vastly bloated Finale. > . . . There are a lot of > graphics being thrown around here, . . . . You of all people should know that this is much less an issue of system RAM than it is of the graphics card installed on the machine. > . . . .and part of Finale > 2006 getting much faster at redrawing probably > included making more use of system RAM. . . . Perhaps. But James says Finale 2006 runs just fine on his system, so that makes this point completely irrelevant. > . . . Keep in mind > that Windows XP is supposed to be given 128MB of > memory, and so MakeMusic has to require an amount that > takes this into consideration. . . . The WinXP RAM minimum does not mean that WinXP takes over 128MBs of RAM, it is only the basic amount of RAM that is needed to boot the OS and run an application or two. > . . . Looking at Finale in > the task manager right now, it's using about 110MB of > memory. That doesn't strike me as being extreme. Maybe not, but I just loaded up a large file in Finale 2003 and it's taking only 23MBs. The same file loaded into the Finale 2005 demo takes up 57MBs. If each version of Finale is doubling the RAM needs, that would be 120MBs for Finale 2006, and 240MBs for Finale 2007, but it would be ridiculous to assume such a doubling with every version. What version of Finale do you show using 110MBs? All that aside, the VMM of Windows should still allow you to run such an application that grabs that amount of memory, albeit slowly. I know of no software that specifies its minimum RAM requirements as FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM, as free RAM is so incredibly variable with operating environment and dependent on things like swap file settings that don't really get you additional performance (swap files only stretch what you can barely run). -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
--- "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > None of that makes any sense. Why would an installer > check the RAM > available when it's *running* rather than the > *installed* RAM? > Perhaps you're right, though, if the system RAM > grabbed by the > onboard devices is showing up as unavailable. I > don't know how those > kinds of things work, since I'd never buy a system > that is so poorly > designed as to be using system RAM for those > purposes. I believe if you look at the amount of memory reported by Windows as being installed on the system, system memory that has been dedicated to video will not be reported. So a system with 256MB of Ram with integrated video that uses 32MB from this will only report that it has 224MB of memory. If the program isn't installing and is reporting that the computer doesn't have enough memory, this would be my guess as to what's going on. -Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 18:41, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > http://finalemusic.com/finale/system-requirements.aspx > > I think 256 Megs of Ram means free Ram. I've never ever seen any pieces of software list system requirements in that way and assume you'll understand they mean *free* RAM instead of *installed* RAM. You may be right that that's what they mean, though, in which case, they should say so explicitly. > . . . Why are we complaining about > this? Just go and get some ram. You spent $99 on the upgrade, why not > splurge for a stick of 512Megs? I'm going to assume you have an older > system, and Ram for those is cheap. While I agree that RAM is cheap and that adding it is an excellent way to speed up an old system, additional RAM actually has very little effect on how fast *Finale* runs, because it's not a RAM- hungry program in the first place. Secondly, if the upgrade was bought by someone who is poor on the basis of the system requirements listed at the URL above, then I think it's reasonable for that purchaser to be upset to find out that it means FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM. I still don't believe that's the case, though, as it would make no sense, as you'd sometimes be able to run the installer and sometimes not. Secondly, Windows calculates free RAM using the swap file, so changing your swap file size could allow you to end up with the system reporting more than 256MBs of free RAM, even though you haven't added any actual RAM to the system. It just doesn't make any sense to me for MM to mean FREE RAM instead of INSTALLED RAM. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
David W. Fenton wrote: Give me a break. Before the addition of GPO, Finale was a very low- consumption application in terms of using computing resources, except for screen drawing. I'll give you a break. I saw the Task Manager and it was using a LOT of virtual Memory. In fact, the friend was using Finale 2005 not 2006. My mistake. So, no GPO. But Finale 2005 was using soundfonts, so, there might have been some overhead there. But it was chewing up a lot of memory, and the Paging file usage was great fun to watch when Finale was doing stuff Finale should run just fine in 256MBs on a computer that is 500MHz or faster. Yeah, if you like virtual memory. It would be like running a car on deflated tires. If you saw Finale running on 256MBs very slowly, then it was probably a slow computer. Additional RAM might speed up such a computer somewhat, but probably the graphics subsystem and a slow hard drive were more to blame than the RAM. It also might depend on the Windows version involved. WinXP needs a minimum of 256MBs to be usable, and I choose 512 for systems for cheap customers and 1GB for those who aren't cheapskates. Nope, it was a 600 Mhz Pentium III. It has a 7200 RPM drive, and the graphics card I don't know what it was. The friend has upgraded to 768Megs of Ram (added a 512Meg DIMM) and he reports that he is flying now compared to earlier. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 20:24, dhbailey wrote: > Johannes Gebauer wrote: > > On 13.08.2006 James Gilbert wrote: > >> Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM > >> you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a > >> message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the > >> install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic > >> advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 > >> minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much > >> RAM in the first place? > > > > Sooo much RAM? You must be joking. The standard these days is at > > least 512 MB. I think Finale's requirements are low if anything. Finale doesn't require much in resources compared to many other modern programs, but to me, even 256 as a minimum is a ridiculously high requirement. Minimums always mean "the minimum needed to launch this program by itself with nothing else running." If Finale 2007 is using 256MBs or some large proportion of that by default, then it is a real pig in comparison to previous versions of Finale. > > However, if you really think you have 256 MB I don't know why Finale > > doesn't seem to recognize it. But I guess you are on Windows, and I > > don't know much about windows... > > The fact that there is a ram card in the slot which says it has 256MB > of ram doesn't mean the operating system gets it all. > > Depending on the graphics processor and the sound card (especially if > these are built into the motherboard) some of that RAM is used for > video memory and soundcard memory. > > Then there is the ram that the OS uses simply to run. So there won't > be 256MB of free ram when installation comes around, and there may be > such a small portion available that the installer simply won't run. None of that makes any sense. Why would an installer check the RAM available when it's *running* rather than the *installed* RAM? Perhaps you're right, though, if the system RAM grabbed by the onboard devices is showing up as unavailable. I don't know how those kinds of things work, since I'd never buy a system that is so poorly designed as to be using system RAM for those purposes. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13 Aug 2006 at 14:51, Eric Dannewitz wrote: > I'd say they probably assume most people have 512 Megs of RAM as most > computers seem to ship with that now, and if you really want > performance out of a system, you need more RAM. I can't imagine > Windows XP on 256 Megs of RAM. Actually, I've seen it before. A friend > was running an old PC with Finale 2006 with just 256 Megs of physical > ram. It was dirt slow. Adding more ram seemed to turn night into day > on that machine. Give me a break. Before the addition of GPO, Finale was a very low- consumption application in terms of using computing resources, except for screen drawing. Finale should run just fine in 256MBs on a computer that is 500MHz or faster. If you saw Finale running on 256MBs very slowly, then it was probably a slow computer. Additional RAM might speed up such a computer somewhat, but probably the graphics subsystem and a slow hard drive were more to blame than the RAM. It also might depend on the Windows version involved. WinXP needs a minimum of 256MBs to be usable, and I choose 512 for systems for cheap customers and 1GB for those who aren't cheapskates. If it's Win2K, then 128MBs is going to work OK, but 256MBs is better. I run a P4 500 with 768MBs of RAM (which is maxed out for this computer), and it's fine. Finale 2005 (the last demo I've downloaded) runs just as fast as Finale 2003, which is just fine. The recommendation to add RAM is a good one, though. But I, too, am puzzled why the installer is refusing to install on a machine that has the stated minimum of RAM. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
--- James Gilbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I still want to know why a notation program has to > use SOOO much memory to > notate music. (I can understand why playback or GPO > or the like might need > a lot more, but why can't those be loaded in only if > needed instead of > bloating the whole software? It seems like bad > programming). Oh, my sound > and video card are separate from the system RAM. There are many things that eat up memory. The soundfont is loaded into memory. Plug-ins take up memory. The application is going to load things into memory to speed up access to them. There are a lot of graphics being thrown around here, and part of Finale 2006 getting much faster at redrawing probably included making more use of system RAM. Keep in mind that Windows XP is supposed to be given 128MB of memory, and so MakeMusic has to require an amount that takes this into consideration. Looking at Finale in the task manager right now, it's using about 110MB of memory. That doesn't strike me as being extreme. -Tyler __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
http://finalemusic.com/finale/system-requirements.aspx I think 256 Megs of Ram means free Ram. Why are we complaining about this? Just go and get some ram. You spent $99 on the upgrade, why not splurge for a stick of 512Megs? I'm going to assume you have an older system, and Ram for those is cheap. James Gilbert wrote: On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, dhbailey wrote: Then there is the ram that the OS uses simply to run. So there won't be 256MB of free ram when installation comes around, and there may be such a small portion available that the installer simply won't run. The MakeMusic site says NOTHING about FREE memory, only that your system should have 256meg installed. I wouldn't of wasted my money to upgrade if it needs 256M of "free" memory. (Along those lines, I can't justify spending more money to upgrade my computer just for this program. Finale 2006 works well enough). I have plenty of programs that require 256M system memory that run just fine (and as fast as any computer I've used). I still want to know why a notation program has to use SOOO much memory to notate music. (I can understand why playback or GPO or the like might need a lot more, but why can't those be loaded in only if needed instead of bloating the whole software? It seems like bad programming). Oh, my sound and video card are separate from the system RAM. James Gilbert www.jamesgilbertmusic.com "640K ought to be enough for anybody. (Bill Gates, 1981)" ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006, dhbailey wrote: > Then there is the ram that the OS uses simply to run. So there won't be > 256MB of free ram when installation comes around, and there may be such > a small portion available that the installer simply won't run. The MakeMusic site says NOTHING about FREE memory, only that your system should have 256meg installed. I wouldn't of wasted my money to upgrade if it needs 256M of "free" memory. (Along those lines, I can't justify spending more money to upgrade my computer just for this program. Finale 2006 works well enough). I have plenty of programs that require 256M system memory that run just fine (and as fast as any computer I've used). I still want to know why a notation program has to use SOOO much memory to notate music. (I can understand why playback or GPO or the like might need a lot more, but why can't those be loaded in only if needed instead of bloating the whole software? It seems like bad programming). Oh, my sound and video card are separate from the system RAM. James Gilbert www.jamesgilbertmusic.com "640K ought to be enough for anybody. (Bill Gates, 1981)" ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.08.2006 James Gilbert wrote: Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? Sooo much RAM? You must be joking. The standard these days is at least 512 MB. I think Finale's requirements are low if anything. However, if you really think you have 256 MB I don't know why Finale doesn't seem to recognize it. But I guess you are on Windows, and I don't know much about windows... Johannes The fact that there is a ram card in the slot which says it has 256MB of ram doesn't mean the operating system gets it all. Depending on the graphics processor and the sound card (especially if these are built into the motherboard) some of that RAM is used for video memory and soundcard memory. Then there is the ram that the OS uses simply to run. So there won't be 256MB of free ram when installation comes around, and there may be such a small portion available that the installer simply won't run. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
Hi James, On Sun, 2006-08-13 at 17:41 -0400, James Gilbert wrote: > Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you > cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that > says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not > continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing > about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation > software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? Does your motherboard have onboard video? If so, part of that 256MB is being used as RAM for your video card, resulting in the report that you don't have at least 256MB. Best, Scott ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
On 13.08.2006 James Gilbert wrote: Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? Sooo much RAM? You must be joking. The standard these days is at least 512 MB. I think Finale's requirements are low if anything. However, if you really think you have 256 MB I don't know why Finale doesn't seem to recognize it. But I guess you are on Windows, and I don't know much about windows... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
256 Megs of Ram? Why not treat yourself and get more RAM? I mean, you can get a Gig of RAM for about $100. I'd say they probably assume most people have 512 Megs of RAM as most computers seem to ship with that now, and if you really want performance out of a system, you need more RAM. I can't imagine Windows XP on 256 Megs of RAM. Actually, I've seen it before. A friend was running an old PC with Finale 2006 with just 256 Megs of physical ram. It was dirt slow. Adding more ram seemed to turn night into day on that machine. James Gilbert wrote: Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? James Gilbert www.jamesgilbertmusic.com PS. WinSupport at MakeMusic has been notified. __ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale 2007 RAM issues
Anyone else find that even with a computer that has 256Meg of RAM you cannot install Finale 2007?? When trying to install, I get a message that says that since I don't have 256meg of RAM (I do) the install does not continue. (The system requirments that MakeMusic advertises says nothing about having a 'minimum' of 256, just 256 minimum). Why should a notation software program require sooo much RAM in the first place? James Gilbert www.jamesgilbertmusic.com PS. WinSupport at MakeMusic has been notified. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
