Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Robert Patterson]

About grace note spacing in linked parts, note position alterations have
been unlinkable for some time now. (I don't recall exactly which version,
but at least since Fin12.) That doesn't address the larger issue of grace
note spacing in general, but my Mass Copy plugin is useful if you have to
do the same task repetitively.

To Jonathan's point about pre-2005 files, I highly recommend he look into
SheepShaver. It allows me to open a Mac OS9 window on my current macOS
(10.13) desketop. I have captured all my old files as PDFs, back to 1993
and beyond. Trying to upgrade those files would be unthinkable. (I believe
there is also a SheepShaver version for Win.)


On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 3:25 AM, Jonathan Smith <lismoremu...@wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

> I second Christopher on this! The advantages outweigh the disadvantages by
> a long way.
>
> I suppose a lot of this discussion will be influenced by the type of work
> you do. In pure engraving work where final output will never be altered,
> then extracted parts are fine. But for those working on projects for
> clients who change their minds, or material that you may need to update,
> re-cycle, make cuts/additions, then linked parts are extremely useful and
> save hours of endless repetitive changes. The larger the ensemble - the
> more time saved, as with ext. parts there will be more files to open.
>
> Someone mentioned earlier about having different font sizes in Score and
> Parts, well, this is possible in linked parts with a little time spent on
> which items show in the score and which in the parts (show/hide). You just
> need to put in two instances of each item, then have show in part only and
> show in score only. I frequently place larger rehearsal markings
> (numbers/letters) in the score to the parts as it is easier to read for the
> MD and not so large in the part that it takes up all the space. Things like
> this once done are easliy replicated, or saved into templates, after which
> you fly!
>
> In Fin 25 you can have different size/styles in time signatures for the
> score and the parts.
>
> Things I DON’T LIKE are:
>
> Grace note spacing, especially on staves with 2 instruments
> Cue notes on staves with 2 instruments
> Cue notes on staves where there are multiple versions of the parts (Tuba
> in C, Bb bass clef, Bb treble clef)
>
> All said and done, Finale is superb application. I’ve used it since
> version 1.0 it has constantly evolved over the last 25 years. I work mainly
> in musical theatre and band scores and it is so adaptable to that medium.
> Eventually yes, you will arrive at a point where there is precious little
> that can be done to improve the bulk of the application and I think it’s
> good that MM scrapped the annual system of upgrades for minor improvements,
> sometimes not even appealing to the general user, not worth the fee and
> sometimes buggy in trying to reach deadlines.
>
> What is very frustrating now is the problems involved in upgrading older
> Finale files (pre-2005) with the new system softwares which we are all
> really obliged to embrace at some point. I have a stack of older files
> dating back to 1993 which I must find time update as I fear they will one
> day become impossible to open. The upside of this (in ref. to Linked parts)
> is that I will only really need to update the scores and not the thousands
> of extracted parts as it will be quicker to load up a page format library
> and create new parts.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> > On 23 Apr 2018, at 08:49, finale-requ...@shsu.edu wrote:
> >
> > From: Christopher Smith <christopher.sm...@videotron.ca  christopher.sm...@videotron.ca>>
> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> > Date: 22 April 2018 at 23:51:34
> > To: <finale@shsu.edu <mailto:finale@shsu.edu>>
> >
> >
> > Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!
> >
> > Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy
> and paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between
> documents, you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters
> ONCE (or anything else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you
> find something colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved
> everywhere, and you can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to regularize
> the page layout. Later edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the score
> file, once in the part file) but in extracted parts you have to make edits
> in ALL files, which can be maddening.
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com  l...@leeactor.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the t

Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Jonathan Smith]

I second Christopher on this! The advantages outweigh the disadvantages by a 
long way.

I suppose a lot of this discussion will be influenced by the type of work you 
do. In pure engraving work where final output will never be altered, then 
extracted parts are fine. But for those working on projects for clients who 
change their minds, or material that you may need to update, re-cycle, make 
cuts/additions, then linked parts are extremely useful and save hours of 
endless repetitive changes. The larger the ensemble - the more time saved, as 
with ext. parts there will be more files to open.

Someone mentioned earlier about having different font sizes in Score and Parts, 
well, this is possible in linked parts with a little time spent on which items 
show in the score and which in the parts (show/hide). You just need to put in 
two instances of each item, then have show in part only and show in score only. 
I frequently place larger rehearsal markings (numbers/letters) in the score to 
the parts as it is easier to read for the MD and not so large in the part that 
it takes up all the space. Things like this once done are easliy replicated, or 
saved into templates, after which you fly!

In Fin 25 you can have different size/styles in time signatures for the score 
and the parts.

Things I DON’T LIKE are:

Grace note spacing, especially on staves with 2 instruments
Cue notes on staves with 2 instruments
Cue notes on staves where there are multiple versions of the parts (Tuba in C, 
Bb bass clef, Bb treble clef)

All said and done, Finale is superb application. I’ve used it since version 1.0 
it has constantly evolved over the last 25 years. I work mainly in musical 
theatre and band scores and it is so adaptable to that medium.  Eventually yes, 
you will arrive at a point where there is precious little that can be done to 
improve the bulk of the application and I think it’s good that MM scrapped the 
annual system of upgrades for minor improvements, sometimes not even appealing 
to the general user, not worth the fee and sometimes buggy in trying to reach 
deadlines.

What is very frustrating now is the problems involved in upgrading older Finale 
files (pre-2005) with the new system softwares which we are all really obliged 
to embrace at some point. I have a stack of older files dating back to 1993 
which I must find time update as I fear they will one day become impossible to 
open. The upside of this (in ref. to Linked parts) is that I will only really 
need to update the scores and not the thousands of extracted parts as it will 
be quicker to load up a page format library and create new parts. 

Jonathan


> On 23 Apr 2018, at 08:49, finale-requ...@shsu.edu wrote:
> 
> From: Christopher Smith <christopher.sm...@videotron.ca 
> <mailto:christopher.sm...@videotron.ca>>
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> Date: 22 April 2018 at 23:51:34 
> To: <finale@shsu.edu <mailto:finale@shsu.edu>>
> 
> 
> Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!
> 
> Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy and 
> paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between documents, 
> you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters ONCE (or 
> anything else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you find 
> something colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved 
> everywhere, and you can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to regularize 
> the page layout. Later edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the score 
> file, once in the part file) but in extracted parts you have to make edits in 
> ALL files, which can be maddening.
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com 
>> <mailto:l...@leeactor.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo marking 
>> font size in the linked parts score; I change several global settings in the 
>> version of the score I extract parts from that I want to apply to all parts 
>> and not to the score.
>> 
>> With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the advantage of 
>> linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does this 
>> save time and effort?
> 

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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Robert Patterson]

Where having minimal files helps a lot is when you have to add or remove
measures after the fact. Then opening a modifying 2 files is much easier
than modifying 30. Btw: I still use 2 files for some projects, but only for
large ensembles with parts doubled up on single lines in the score. For
these projects, parts that can stay inside the file with the score and I
only maintain the ones I have to separately. Usually this means percussion,
keyboards, and string parts are in the file with the score and the wws and
brass parts are separate.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 7:08 PM, Aaron Sherber <aa...@sherber.com> wrote:

> In my experience, it has been a big time saver -- not sure if I would say
> HUGE.
>
> Aaron.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:
>
> > I already enter all cues in my "extracted parts" score, no pasting
> between
> > docusments.
> > I also change several "parts only" items globally once, in the same
> score.
> > Same with elements colliding in all parts (rare in my experience).
> >
> > You're right about later edits potentially having to be done in multiple
> > files, but for me it's rare that a later edit needs to be done in more
> than
> > 1 or 2 files.  To me, a bigger danger in doing later edits in linked
> parts
> > is that I might inadvertently have Auto music spacing or multimeasure
> rests
> > on, where a minor edit in one part can affect a different part that will
> > likely go unnoticed.
> >
> > I don't mean to be argumentative; I really am interested in the best work
> > flow.  But isn't saying that fewer files is a HUGE time saver something
> of
> > an overstatement?
> >
> > -Lee
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf
> > Of
> > Christopher Smith
> > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:52 PM
> > To: finale@shsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> >
> > Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!
> >
> > Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy
> and
> > paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between
> > documents,
> > you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters ONCE (or
> > anything else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you find
> > something colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved
> > everywhere, and you can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to
> regularize
> > the page layout. Later edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the
> score
> > file, once in the part file) but in extracted parts you have to make
> edits
> > in ALL files, which can be maddening.
> >
> > Christopher
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo
> > marking font size in the linked parts score; I change several global
> > settings in the version of the score I extract parts from that I want to
> > apply to all parts and not to the score.
> > >
> > > With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the
> advantage
> > of linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does
> > this
> > save time and effort?
> >
> > ___
> > Finale mailing list
> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >
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> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Aaron Sherber]

In my experience, it has been a big time saver -- not sure if I would say
HUGE.

Aaron.





On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:

> I already enter all cues in my "extracted parts" score, no pasting between
> docusments.
> I also change several "parts only" items globally once, in the same score.
> Same with elements colliding in all parts (rare in my experience).
>
> You're right about later edits potentially having to be done in multiple
> files, but for me it's rare that a later edit needs to be done in more than
> 1 or 2 files.  To me, a bigger danger in doing later edits in linked parts
> is that I might inadvertently have Auto music spacing or multimeasure rests
> on, where a minor edit in one part can affect a different part that will
> likely go unnoticed.
>
> I don't mean to be argumentative; I really am interested in the best work
> flow.  But isn't saying that fewer files is a HUGE time saver something of
> an overstatement?
>
> -Lee
>
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf
> Of
> Christopher Smith
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:52 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
>
> Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!
>
> Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy and
> paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between
> documents,
> you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters ONCE (or
> anything else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you find
> something colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved
> everywhere, and you can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to regularize
> the page layout. Later edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the score
> file, once in the part file) but in extracted parts you have to make edits
> in ALL files, which can be maddening.
>
> Christopher
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:
> >
> > Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo
> marking font size in the linked parts score; I change several global
> settings in the version of the score I extract parts from that I want to
> apply to all parts and not to the score.
> >
> > With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the advantage
> of linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does
> this
> save time and effort?
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
> ___
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Lee Actor]

I already enter all cues in my "extracted parts" score, no pasting between
docusments.
I also change several "parts only" items globally once, in the same score.
Same with elements colliding in all parts (rare in my experience).

You're right about later edits potentially having to be done in multiple
files, but for me it's rare that a later edit needs to be done in more than
1 or 2 files.  To me, a bigger danger in doing later edits in linked parts
is that I might inadvertently have Auto music spacing or multimeasure rests
on, where a minor edit in one part can affect a different part that will
likely go unnoticed.

I don't mean to be argumentative; I really am interested in the best work
flow.  But isn't saying that fewer files is a HUGE time saver something of
an overstatement?

-Lee

-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
Christopher Smith
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:52 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!

Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy and
paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between documents,
you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters ONCE (or
anything else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you find
something colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved
everywhere, and you can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to regularize
the page layout. Later edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the score
file, once in the part file) but in extracted parts you have to make edits
in ALL files, which can be maddening.

Christopher


> On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:
> 
> Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo
marking font size in the linked parts score; I change several global
settings in the version of the score I extract parts from that I want to
apply to all parts and not to the score.
> 
> With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the advantage
of linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does this
save time and effort?

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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Christopher Smith]

Ooh, ooh, ooh! I got this!

Fewer files is a HUGE time saver! You can enter all the cues with copy and 
paste (or the plugin, which I find buggy) without pasting between documents, 
you can change the font sizes for tempi and rehearsal letters ONCE (or anything 
else ONCE) and have it apply to all parts at once, if you find something 
colliding in all parts you move it ONCE and it is solved everywhere, and you 
can take advantage of JW Copy Part Layout to regularize the page layout. Later 
edits, too, have to be done twice (once in the score file, once in the part 
file) but in extracted parts you have to make edits in ALL files, which can be 
maddening.

Christopher


> On Apr 22, 2018, at 5:38 PM, Lee Actor  wrote:
> 
> Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo marking 
> font size in the linked parts score; I change several global settings in the 
> version of the score I extract parts from that I want to apply to all parts 
> and not to the score.
> 
> With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the advantage of 
> linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does this 
> save time and effort?

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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Lee Actor]

Makes sense.  It seems to me you'd also be able to change the tempo marking 
font size in the linked parts score; I change several global settings in the 
version of the score I extract parts from that I want to apply to all parts and 
not to the score.

With two separate copies of the score, though, I don't see the advantage of 
linked parts over extracted parts, other than fewer files.  How does this save 
time and effort?

-Lee

-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of 
Aaron Sherber
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:21 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

​My solution for many of these things​ (and I think many others have the
same workflow) is to have one file for the score and one file for the
(linked) parts. This is not as good as one file for everything, but it's
better than a bunch of separate files for extracted parts.

Given this workflow, in your parts file you could explode your wind parts
so that everything is one part per staff, and then cues are easier. Your #2
and #3 are also easy to accomplish this way.

This also takes care of other things that are not currently unlinkable in
Finale. (At least, they weren't in Fin2011; I haven't really dived into
Fin25 yet.) For example, I like to use a bigger font for tempo markings and
rehearsal numbers in my score than I do in parts.

Aaron.




On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:

> I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
> score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
> years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
> month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
> workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
> were saving.
>
> So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
> to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
> 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
> 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
> closer spaced than the score.
> 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1
> part
> might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef
> in
> the part).
> 4) Grace note spacing.
>
> I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
> and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
> to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
> workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
> judgement.
>
> -Lee
>
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf
> Of
> Robert Patterson
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
> To: finale
> Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
>
> I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
> recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
> are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
> plugin to address what can be addressed.
>
> Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
> * allowing special tools in voiced parts
> * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
>
> The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
> page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
> from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
> to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I.
> issues.
>
> What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
> very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
> functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Skjalg Bjørstad]

Not sure about that (away from office for the weekend...), as I rarely touch 
that setting; so I may very well be wrong here. 

Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.

> 22. apr. 2018 kl. 23:29 skrev Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com>:
> 
> So I can have different scaling factors (Document Options->Music 
> Spacing->Spacing Widths) in score and parts?  Are you sure?
> 
> -Lee
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of 
> Skjalg Bjørstad
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 12:30 PM
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> 
> Your 2) and 3) are not correct.  Music spacing is not linked between score 
> and parts. You can also change clef in parts with staff styles 
> (transposition>set to clef) in part only.  1) and 4) are valid, though. 
> 
> Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.
> 
>> 22. apr. 2018 kl. 20:34 skrev Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com>:
>> 
>> I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
>> score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
>> years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
>> month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
>> workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
>> were saving.
>> 
>> So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
>> to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
>> 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
>> 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
>> closer spaced than the score.
>> 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1 part
>> might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef in
>> the part).
>> 4) Grace note spacing.
>> 
>> I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
>> and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
>> to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
>> workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
>> judgement.
>> 
>> -Lee
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
>> Robert Patterson
>> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
>> To: finale
>> Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
>> 
>> I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
>> recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
>> are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
>> plugin to address what can be addressed.
>> 
>> Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
>> * allowing special tools in voiced parts
>> * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
>> 
>> The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
>> page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
>> from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
>> to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I. issues.
>> 
>> What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
>> very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
>> functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>> 
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
>> Finale@shsu.edu
>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
>> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Lee Actor]

So I can have different scaling factors (Document Options->Music 
Spacing->Spacing Widths) in score and parts?  Are you sure?

-Lee

-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of 
Skjalg Bjørstad
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 12:30 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

Your 2) and 3) are not correct.  Music spacing is not linked between score and 
parts. You can also change clef in parts with staff styles (transposition>set 
to clef) in part only.  1) and 4) are valid, though. 

Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.

> 22. apr. 2018 kl. 20:34 skrev Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com>:
> 
> I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
> score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
> years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
> month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
> workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
> were saving.
> 
> So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
> to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
> 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
> 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
> closer spaced than the score.
> 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1 part
> might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef in
> the part).
> 4) Grace note spacing.
> 
> I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
> and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
> to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
> workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
> judgement.
> 
> -Lee
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
> Robert Patterson
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
> To: finale
> Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> 
> I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
> recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
> are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
> plugin to address what can be addressed.
> 
> Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
> * allowing special tools in voiced parts
> * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
> 
> The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
> page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
> from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
> to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I. issues.
> 
> What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
> very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
> functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu

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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Aaron Sherber]

​My solution for many of these things​ (and I think many others have the
same workflow) is to have one file for the score and one file for the
(linked) parts. This is not as good as one file for everything, but it's
better than a bunch of separate files for extracted parts.

Given this workflow, in your parts file you could explode your wind parts
so that everything is one part per staff, and then cues are easier. Your #2
and #3 are also easy to accomplish this way.

This also takes care of other things that are not currently unlinkable in
Finale. (At least, they weren't in Fin2011; I haven't really dived into
Fin25 yet.) For example, I like to use a bigger font for tempo markings and
rehearsal numbers in my score than I do in parts.

Aaron.




On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com> wrote:

> I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
> score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
> years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
> month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
> workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
> were saving.
>
> So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
> to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
> 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
> 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
> closer spaced than the score.
> 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1
> part
> might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef
> in
> the part).
> 4) Grace note spacing.
>
> I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
> and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
> to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
> workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
> judgement.
>
> -Lee
>
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf
> Of
> Robert Patterson
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
> To: finale
> Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
>
> I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
> recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
> are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
> plugin to address what can be addressed.
>
> Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
> * allowing special tools in voiced parts
> * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
>
> The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
> page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
> from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
> to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I.
> issues.
>
> What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
> very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
> functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Robert Patterson]

My Note Spacing plugin already allows you to have different spacing options
for parts and score (with saved settings). It doesn't do allotment tables,
though, so either part or score would have to use the reference duration
settings.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Skjalg Bjørstad <
trekkspillman...@icloud.com> wrote:

> Your 2) and 3) are not correct.  Music spacing is not linked between score
> and parts. You can also change clef in parts with staff styles
> (transposition>set to clef) in part only.  1) and 4) are valid, though.
>
> Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.
>
> > 22. apr. 2018 kl. 20:34 skrev Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com>:
> >
> > I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
> > score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort
> several
> > years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after
> a
> > month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
> > workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
> > were saving.
> >
> > So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I
> found
> > to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
> > 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a
> staff.
> > 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my
> parts
> > closer spaced than the score.
> > 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1
> part
> > might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass
> clef in
> > the part).
> > 4) Grace note spacing.
> >
> > I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
> > and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm
> ready
> > to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
> > workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
> > judgement.
> >
> > -Lee
> >
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On
> Behalf Of
> > Robert Patterson
> > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
> > To: finale
> > Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> >
> > I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
> > recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
> > are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a
> possible
> > plugin to address what can be addressed.
> >
> > Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
> > * allowing special tools in voiced parts
> > * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
> >
> > The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
> > page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
> > from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything
> down
> > to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I.
> issues.
> >
> > What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which
> seem
> > very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
> > functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
> > ___
> > Finale mailing list
> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> >
> > ___
> > Finale mailing list
> > Finale@shsu.edu
> > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> >
> > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> > finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
> ___
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Skjalg Bjørstad]

Your 2) and 3) are not correct.  Music spacing is not linked between score and 
parts. You can also change clef in parts with staff styles (transposition>set 
to clef) in part only.  1) and 4) are valid, though. 

Skjalg - for anledningen på nett med iPhone.

> 22. apr. 2018 kl. 20:34 skrev Lee Actor <l...@leeactor.com>:
> 
> I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
> score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
> years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
> month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
> workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
> were saving.
> 
> So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
> to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
> 1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
> 2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
> closer spaced than the score.
> 3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1 part
> might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef in
> the part).
> 4) Grace note spacing.
> 
> I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
> and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
> to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
> workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
> judgement.
> 
> -Lee
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
> Robert Patterson
> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
> To: finale
> Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?
> 
> I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
> recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
> are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
> plugin to address what can be addressed.
> 
> Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
> * allowing special tools in voiced parts
> * unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually
> 
> The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
> page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
> from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
> to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I. issues.
> 
> What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
> very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
> functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu

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Re: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Lee Actor]

I'm not a regular user of linked parts -- yes, I still make a copy of the
score and extract from there -- but I did make a reasonable effort several
years ago to incorporate them into my normal work flow.  I gave up after a
month or so due to encountering too many situations that required special
workarounds, and decided linked parts were costing me more time than they
were saving.

So given my admittedly limited knowledge, here are some items that I found
to be more trouble in linked parts than it's worth:
1) Cues are a mess, esp. in orchestral scores with 2 wind parts on a staff.
2) Can't have different music spacing in score and parts.  I like my parts
closer spaced than the score.
3) Can't have different clefs in score and part (e.g., a high bassoon 1 part
might mean tenor clef for bassoon 2 in the score, but should be bass clef in
the part).
4) Grace note spacing.

I encountered other issues which can be fairly attributed to pilot error,
and some of the above problems may have already been addressed.  I'm ready
to embrace linked parts, as soon as the pain of special cases and
workarounds is exceeded by the benefits.  Obviously this is a subjective
judgement.

-Lee

-Original Message-
From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of
Robert Patterson
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 6:32 AM
To: finale
Subject: [Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
plugin to address what can be addressed.

Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
* allowing special tools in voiced parts
* unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually

The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I. issues.

What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
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[Finale] Finale Linked Parts: what's missing?

[Robert Patterson]

I am starting a new thread because my comments seem to be buried in the
recent Dorico thread. I would like to poll this list about what features
are missing from Linked Parts. I am doing so with an eye towards a possible
plugin to address what can be addressed.

Things that cannot be addressed by a plugin are
* allowing special tools in voiced parts
* unlinking items that Finale currently can't unlink manually

The kinds of things that are likely to be addressable are in the area of
page layout. In fact I already have a plugin that can copy a page layout
from one part to another. And Jari has made one that copies everything down
to the note spacing. But maybe there are things we've missed or U.I. issues.

What prompts this request is the discussion of Dorico "layouts" which seem
very similar to linked parts in Finale. I'm curious if there is
functionality there that a plugin could bring to Finale.
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