Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Dmitry Yemanov firebi...@yandex.ru wrote: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Gbak is not equivalent to the MySQL or Postgres dumps which produce a series of insert statements that can be edited. From my experience, people expect textual output from a dump and will be disappointed/annoyed to get our backup file. Cheers, Ann -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_novFirebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
19.11.2012 19:54, Ann Harrison wrote: On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Dmitry Yemanov firebi...@yandex.ru mailto:firebi...@yandex.ru wrote: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Gbak is not equivalent to the MySQL or Postgres dumps which produce a series of insert statements that can be edited. From my experience, people expect textual output from a dump and will be disappointed/annoyed to get our backup file. True. But perhaps some better idea could be suggested instead. Because I do think that semantically gbak is a [binary] dump utility for some special (read: rare) tasks while nbackup is what's intended to have fast backup/restore cycle (even leaving in piece its incremental capabilities). Dmitry -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 11/19/12 20:22, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: 19.11.2012 16:54, Ann Harrison wrote: Gbak is not equivalent to the MySQL or Postgres dumps which produce a series of insert statements that can be edited. I wonder how they manage big BLOBs? As far as I remember in hex, but you may try yourself. What can be said for sure - a series of insert statements is definitely not optimized for size, but certainly well compressable. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Hex encoded - and with some engines, you can specify compressed (read zlib) output. I have seen multiple different implementations of the extract including some that use multiple different files in sub-directories, while others extract to xml. It all depends upon the engine and the purpose of the dump in the first place. Most dumps are used with version control systems while others are used for version upgrades. best regards Dalton On 19 November 2012 11:41, Alex Peshkoff peshk...@mail.ru wrote: On 11/19/12 20:22, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: 19.11.2012 16:54, Ann Harrison wrote: Gbak is not equivalent to the MySQL or Postgres dumps which produce a series of insert statements that can be edited. I wonder how they manage big BLOBs? As far as I remember in hex, but you may try yourself. What can be said for sure - a series of insert statements is definitely not optimized for size, but certainly well compressable. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 11/19/12 20:45, Dimitry Sibiryakov wrote: 19.11.2012 17:41, Alex Peshkoff wrote: As far as I remember in hex, but you may try yourself. Thanks, I'm not so curious. And I didn't say big for nothing: I can't imagine SQL statement of size 3-4Gb. In a time I've played with postgres 4Gb was typical HDD size... Firebird statement is limited to 64k, there is no way to put big BLOB into it. Definitely. Luckily we are not going to create such tool. PS. When it was needed once to store big blobs in SQL script, I've used blob concatenation to append data by 16K portions. Certainly, not efficient, but when one needs to transfer a few 3-10 Mb objects, acceptable. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
19.11.2012 17:41, Alex Peshkoff wrote: As far as I remember in hex, but you may try yourself. Thanks, I'm not so curious. And I didn't say big for nothing: I can't imagine SQL statement of size 3-4Gb. Firebird statement is limited to 64k, there is no way to put big BLOB into it. But we could adopt an approach similar to IBExpert, which creates 2 files for each dump; 1 SQL file and 1 file containing the blob contents. The SQL file statements contain a special tag (which includes the position offset and length of the data in the Blob file). The SQL parser then joins the Blob data into the SQL statement when the script is executed. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
19.11.2012 18:38, Leyne, Sean wrote: But we could adopt an approach similar to IBExpert, which creates 2 files for each dump; 1 SQL file and 1 file containing the blob contents. And to open a door for problems like I forgot to copy one file from set, what's now. This is a road to hell. -- WBR, SD. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Alex Peshkoff peshk...@mail.ru wrote: What can be said for sure - a series of insert statements is definitely not optimized for size, but certainly well compressable. The more serious problem is that each insert statement has to be compiled and optimized - none of the dump tools use parameterized statements. Cheers, Ann -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_novFirebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Dalton Calford dalton.calf...@gmail.comwrote: Most hex encoded dumps have special programs to load the data back into the engine - I could not imagine anyone trying to use a straight sql script to handle any large datasets. I assure you that MySQL dump produces a text file containing insert statements. Best regards, Ann -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_novFirebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Ann Harrison wrote: Most hex encoded dumps have special programs to load the data back into the engine - I could not imagine anyone trying to use a straight sql script to handle any large datasets. I assure you that MySQL dump produces a text file containing insert statements. And if you don't stop access to the database it gets screwed up :( Just been hit by that one on a big site, but it's running on Firebird now :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 19 November 2012 12:52, Ann Harrison a...@qbeast.net wrote: I assure you that MySQL dump produces a text file containing insert statements. Best regards, Ann Oh, I believe you, as I have seen them/used them, but like I said, I could not imagine anyone (implied 'reasonable') using them for large datasets. Straight sql dumps have their place in certain limited circumstances, but, using them to load or extract large data sets is like trying to use a hammer as a wrench. I have seen dump tools for oracle that did use parametrized inserts and relative paths to individual files for each hex encoded blob. The entire dump was placed into a single zip file so that you could extract/modify/delete details as needed. Something like that could be useful as a migration tool or snapshot based backups like gbak. The only benefit in comparison to gbak would be the fact that the end user would be able to easily manipulate the output/input files. As for support, if the user screws up their data/backups by hand editing the files, that is their problem.The project should not concern itself with people who are given enough rope to climb a mountain but decide to hang themselves instead. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Dmitry, fb_backup, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stats and fb_precompile I believe gpre stands for preprocess, not precompile. Ok, fb_preprocess it is! ;-) I realize that the names are longer than the original, but they are much more meaningful Speaking about meanings, I'd suggest this change: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Although I was the one who approached Nikolay about the ideas for nbackup, and paid for the development, I am not sure that nbackup is the ideal backup that it could be. So, I think the nbackup name should be kept. I'm also not sure that other team members would agree that it should be blessed as the official backup tool. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
18.11.2012 18:31, Leyne, Sean wrote: I am not sure that nbackup is the ideal backup that it could be. But this is exactly what in other SQL servers (Oracle at least) is called backup. -- WBR, SD. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Speaking about meanings, I'd suggest this change: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Although I was the one who approached Nikolay about the ideas for nbackup, and paid for the development, I am not sure that nbackup is the ideal backup that it could be. So, I think the nbackup name should be kept. In re-reading this post, I realize that it could be read with a demanding/arrogant/commanding tone. That was not my intent. I was simply trying to say, that I even with my history with the utility, I have a nagging feeling that nbackup could be better. So, I am not sure if nbackup is worthy of the official blessing that fb_backup conveys. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Den 2012-11-18 19:04 skrev Leyne, Sean såhär: Speaking about meanings, I'd suggest this change: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Although I was the one who approached Nikolay about the ideas for nbackup, and paid for the development, I am not sure that nbackup is the ideal backup that it could be. So, I think the nbackup name should be kept. In re-reading this post, I realize that it could be read with a demanding/arrogant/commanding tone. That was not my intent. I was simply trying to say, that I even with my history with the utility, I have a nagging feeling that nbackup could be better. So, I am not sure if nbackup is worthy of the official blessing that fb_backup conveys. I know that I had problems with Nbackup when I tried it with our system. I got some transaction commit error. Don't recall exactly what it was, and I never found time to investigate it further. It happened when the database was locked in nbackup terms, regardless of copy in progress or not. And it was on FB 2.0 I believe. So, perhaps this is totally irrelevant, but just maybe it's a little alert that nbackup might have some problems. Regards, Kjell -- -- Kjell Rilbe DataDIA AB E-post: kj...@datadia.se Telefon: 08-761 06 55 Mobil: 0733-44 24 64 -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
I was simply trying to say, that I even with my history with the utility, I have a nagging feeling that nbackup could be better. So, I am not sure if nbackup is worthy of the official blessing that fb_backup conveys. I know that I had problems with Nbackup when I tried it with our system. I got some transaction commit error. Don't recall exactly what it was, and I never found time to investigate it further. It happened when the database was locked in nbackup terms, regardless of copy in progress or not. And it was on FB 2.0 I believe. There were problems with nbackup at several times, especially in the early FB versions. In recent times, though, a number of fixes have been applied to significantly improve its reliability and interaction with the engine. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
17.11.2012 13:54, Philippe Makowski wrote: I guess it depends on the keyboard layout, too. yes, and we have fb_lock_print, fb_inet_server, fbsvcmgr, fbtracemgr, fb_config, fbguard Just a note. There's no fb_inet_server or fb_smp_server anymore. I don't know anything about fb_config, is it posix-specific? And fb_lock_print can be renamed to match the majority ;-) Dmitry -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 11/19/12 11:04, Dmitry Yemanov wrote: 17.11.2012 13:54, Philippe Makowski wrote: I guess it depends on the keyboard layout, too. yes, and we have fb_lock_print, fb_inet_server, fbsvcmgr, fbtracemgr, fb_config, fbguard Just a note. There's no fb_inet_server or fb_smp_server anymore. I don't know anything about fb_config, is it posix-specific? shell script, printing C-flags needed to build binaries with given fb installation, like -I/opt/firebird/include And fb_lock_print can be renamed to match the majority ;-) Dmitry -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On Saturday 17 Nov 2012 09:21:22 marius adrian popa wrote: I agree on ubuntu i have isql-fb and is a lot faster to type than isql_fb I guess it depends on the keyboard layout, too. Most important is to have a common and consistent prefix, I think. Especially in environments with tabbed command completion. Paul -- Paul Reeves http://www.ibphoenix.com Specialists in Firebird support-- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_novFirebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 17-11-2012 00:34, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: Why do use underlines when fb alone is a good prefix (that don't mess with the next word)? Agreed. A prefix is fine, but I don't think it needs a separator. If we do want a separator, I have to say that I don't like an underline as a separator here, and afaik if you use a separator in a name it is usually a '-'. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 16-11-2012 20:23, Philippe Makowski wrote: Hi all, we have some binaries that have conflict name with other products : isql (UNIX-ODBC) and gstat (Ganglia) may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli On of the downsides of doing this is of course that all existing documentation, FAQs, webpages with info, and 30 years of knowledge on Firebird maintenance becomes instantly obsolete (or at least a bit stale). Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
16.11.2012 23:38, Leyne, Sean wrote: may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli Basically, I agree with a new (and consistent) prefix. Personally, I'd rather prefer dash as a separator or no separator at all (the latter only if we keep short names). I would suggest: fb_backup, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stats and fb_precompile I believe gpre stands for preprocess, not precompile. I realize that the names are longer than the original, but they are much more meaningful Speaking about meanings, I'd suggest this change: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. Dmitry -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Redirects and FAQs can be refreshed , Memory can be refreshed Documentation can be updated , we can't live in the ib 1.0 - 4.0 era forever symlinks can be created at install times for oldtimers Times changed from the Vax years and people request up to date documentation and majority use a gui usually flamerobin , ibexpert ... even the core devels On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Mark Rotteveel m...@lawinegevaar.nl wrote: On 16-11-2012 20:23, Philippe Makowski wrote: Hi all, we have some binaries that have conflict name with other products : isql (UNIX-ODBC) and gstat (Ganglia) may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli On of the downsides of doing this is of course that all existing documentation, FAQs, webpages with info, and 30 years of knowledge on Firebird maintenance becomes instantly obsolete (or at least a bit stale). Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 17-11-2012 09:47, marius adrian popa wrote: Redirects and FAQs can be refreshed , Memory can be refreshed Documentation can be updated , we can't live in the ib 1.0 - 4.0 era forever symlinks can be created at install times for oldtimers Times changed from the Vax years and people request up to date documentation and majority use a gui usually flamerobin , ibexpert ... even the core devels Although all that is true, it is a risk you take and a cost the community will need to absorb. Mark -- Mark Rotteveel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Dmitry Yemanov [2012-11-17 09:36] : 16.11.2012 23:38, Leyne, Sean wrote: may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli Basically, I agree with a new (and consistent) prefix. Personally, I'd rather prefer dash as a separator or no separator at all (the latter only if we keep short names). I don't care, underscore was just a suggestion (as pg use underscore) I would suggest: fb_backup, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stats and fb_precompile I believe gpre stands for preprocess, not precompile. I realize that the names are longer than the original, but they are much more meaningful Speaking about meanings, I'd suggest this change: gbak - fb_dump nbackup - fb_backup because IMO it better reflects their goals. it could be then fb-sql, fb-dump, fb-security, fb-fixup, fb-stat, fb-backup, fb-qli, fb-preprocess, fb-split, fb-qli or fb_sql, fb_dump, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stat, fb_backup, fb_qli, fb_preprocess, fb_split, fb_qli PS fbsql conflict with a Tcl interface to MySQL database and with one python module -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
17.11.2012 10:54, Philippe Makowski wrote: fbsql conflict with others products Not quite so. These other products have file extensions. -- WBR, SD. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Mark Rotteveel wrote: On 17-11-2012 09:47, marius adrian popa wrote: Redirects and FAQs can be refreshed , Memory can be refreshed Documentation can be updated , we can't live in the ib 1.0 - 4.0 era forever symlinks can be created at install times for oldtimers Times changed from the Vax years and people request up to date documentation and majority use a gui usually flamerobin , ibexpert ... even the core devels Although all that is true, it is a risk you take and a cost the community will need to absorb. On Linux at least, links can be provided so that no existing distributed installations are broken. I don't use the command line stuff often in other scripts, but I CAN see a situation where legacy systems could be using command line functions and the original developers are no longer around. But I certainly much prefer underline to dash as a separator, and defining a clean prefix that can be searched for where symlinks ARE still supporting the old style simply begs that the same prefix is maintained? (long gone are the days of 8.3 filenames) They are still present in FAT based storage ... -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Dimitry Sibiryakov [2012-11-17 11:06] : 17.11.2012 10:54, Philippe Makowski wrote: fbsql conflict with others products Not quite so. These other products have file extensions. yes you are right -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
I'd suggest that new tool names come with a new set of revised switches, and that a compatibility layer be developed (tools with old names switches that call the new ones). Ciao -- Nando Dessena -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 17-11-2012 09:52, Nando Dessena wrote: I'd suggest that new tool names come with a new set of revised switches, and that a compatibility layer be developed (tools with old names switches that call the new ones). I'm totally if favor of this and manifest it a long time ago when that matter already appeared. But unfortunately nobody seems to have planned that. Adriano -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
-=| Philippe Makowski, 17.11.2012 10:48:19 +0100 |=- it could be then fb-sql, fb-dump, fb-security, fb-fixup, fb-stat, fb-backup, fb-qli, fb-preprocess, fb-split, fb-qli or fb_sql, fb_dump, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stat, fb_backup, fb_qli, fb_preprocess, fb_split, fb_qli PS fbsql conflict with a Tcl interface to MySQL database and with one python module I have run a quick find over all Debian packages. I looked for binaries prefixed with the different proposals. * fb- -- 0 matches * fb_ -- 0 matches outside firebird packages * fb -- 18 matches outside firebird packages Most of the fb* binaries are related to the fluxbox window manager. None of the present binaries conflicts with the proposed names above. And finally, I'd give my preference to fb-* names, as underscore requires both hands to type on a standard qwerty keyboard (which is the only type I've ever seen). Everyone using a command line to work with firebird would be grateful for not using underscore :) -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Ted Miglautsch [2012-11-17 13:40] : Instead of changing fb's command name maybe we should make them change their command names. :) no way, too late, and even worst, isql from Firebird is not isql from Interbase for example we have to change ours, like we changed from gsd32 to fbclient. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli I would suggest: fb_backup, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stats and fb_precompile I realize that the names are longer than the original, but they are much more meaningful (long gone are the days of 8.3 filenames). To mitigate the new names, perhaps we can problem soft-links/shortcuts for the original names. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
I agree with the longer names , is also better for readability and firebird manual seo On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Leyne, Sean s...@broadviewsoftware.com wrote: may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli I would suggest: fb_backup, fb_security, fb_fixup, fb_stats and fb_precompile I realize that the names are longer than the original, but they are much more meaningful (long gone are the days of 8.3 filenames). To mitigate the new names, perhaps we can problem soft-links/shortcuts for the original names. Sean -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
On 16-11-2012 17:23, Philippe Makowski wrote: Hi all, we have some binaries that have conflict name with other products : isql (UNIX-ODBC) and gstat (Ganglia) may be Firebird 3 is the good time frame to rename our binaries ? for example : fb_sql, fb_bak, fb_sec, fb_fix, fb_stat, fb_nbackup, fb_qli, fb_pre, fb_split, fb_qli Why do use underlines when fb alone is a good prefix (that don't mess with the next word)? Adriano -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
Why not use underlines? On 11/16/12 6:34 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: Why do use underlines when fb alone is a good prefix (that don't mess with the next word)? -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
I like long names and do not like underlines. It's more faster to type a name without underline. 2012/11/17 Doug Chamberlin chamberlin.d...@gmail.com: Why not use underlines? On 11/16/12 6:34 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: Why do use underlines when fb alone is a good prefix (that don't mess with the next word)? -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Roman Simakov -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
Re: [Firebird-devel] Firebird 3, time to rename conflict names ?
I agree on ubuntu i have isql-fb and is a lot faster to type than isql_fb On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Roman Simakov roman.sima...@gmail.com wrote: I like long names and do not like underlines. It's more faster to type a name without underline. 2012/11/17 Doug Chamberlin chamberlin.d...@gmail.com: Why not use underlines? On 11/16/12 6:34 PM, Adriano dos Santos Fernandes wrote: Why do use underlines when fb alone is a good prefix (that don't mess with the next word)? -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Roman Simakov -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov Firebird-Devel mailing list, web interface at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-devel
